Date   

Re: ERIE Train N 78 Marion to Kent 3-16-31

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I would wager the two M&StL 24000 series cars with flour were out of the
Twin Cities.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Not a Fowler

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

What more can you tell us about this great find, Dave?
Not but so much, not being a Wabash guru. The full series ran from 75000
to 78199 in several orders in the Teens, but they were extinct by 1940.

David Thompson


Re: Tank Car Details

Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc. <elden.gatwood@...>
 

Garth, Shawn, Andy;

Garrett and I have been doing some talking. I went back and did a little
research. There are some tanks we could do by kit-bashing. I doubt anyone
is going to do the details for us, so we may have to do them ourselves.
But, you are right, we need some of these parts badly. Here is what I see
as us needing in the HO scale arena:

General service ICC103 GATC tank car or just frame; 8k size, maybe?
Complete insulated car would be great because we could swap/bash tanks;
separate dome so we could kitbash maybe some other tanks?

Various domes and dome details; fat insulated dome, 1% dome (103A/A-W and
B/B-W); A-N/A-N-W dome; A-AL/A-AL-W dome; C/C-W dome; stuffing box and dual
housing castings;

Riveted dome collars for 1% and 2% domes (various diameter ID/ODs to fit 8k
and 10k tanks)

Etched platforms/handrail stanchions/supports

Or, insulated tank car ends in a variety of diameters (or just one big one
that you could cut down). We'd need the one that has the riveted seam down
the middle, and one other.

What do you think?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:shawn.beckert@disney.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:35 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Tank Car Details

Garth Groff wrote:

We could also use different shapes and sizes of domes,
including the riveted collar where domes joined the tank.
Amen to that. Especially needed are the large-diameter domes
as used on asphalt and chemical tank cars. Richard has hinted
that such a car is in the works, but I'd still like to see a
large diameter dome as a separate detail part in H.O. scale.

Shawn Beckert


Re: WLE 30000-30049 and 30050-30149

Ed Hawkins
 

On Thursday, July 15, 2004, at 09:31 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:

I remember some discussion of this recently, but I don't recall that
there was resolution. Does anyone know much about these groups of auto
cars? The only photo I have seen shows a small part of 30137. The end
is a 5/5/5 Murphy with a large blank area at the top and additions to
the ends to increase the width. The roof looks to be a Viking roof.
Ted,
According to NKP diagrams, 30000-30049 were rebuilt 1934, 30050-30099 rebuilt 1935, and 30100-30149 rebuilt 1936. The diagram states ends were "Murphy Corr. 4 Sections" (not 3 sections). The line drawing shows a 10 corrugations with a tall flat portion at the top (NKP diagram line drawings are usually depicted accurately). Viking Roofs furnished by Chicago-Cleveland Car Roof Co. Vertical staff hand brakes. Youngstown doors/Camel fixtures with 12'-0 1/2" clear door opening (Jeff Koeller will be proud). Inside height for auto loading 10'-0" and inside height for commodity loading 8'-11". The latter two groups had 13/16" tongue & groove end lining. The cars were rebuilt from 29000 series by WLE at Ironville Shops. Diagram dated 12/21/50.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Globe Freight Car Models

Jan Berry <rberry@...>
 

Globe Fans,

For some reason the e-bay address didn't work so I cannot comment on what
was offered for auction. What I can comment on is the Globe 40ft. Single
Door boxcar sitting on my desk right now.

I bought the car about forty to fortyfive years ago and must have built it
then or a few years later. Mine is Globe #4300C Rock Island Alum. Box and it
came in an attractive brown and buff colored box with a photo of an SP
freight on the boxtop. The kit is stamped aluminum fastened to a wood core.
I'm pretty sure I glued the wood box together and pinned everything else to
the wood using pins furnished to be stuck through small tabs. Anyway it sure
looks like the Rock Island Express Box, still in shiny metal. We'll overlook
the fact that the side seams aren't right and probably many other details
too.

Richard H. Berry
Warsaw, Indiana

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)


Frank,

I owned a Globe boxcar I picked up someplace in the mid-1960s. Although
the technology was similar to the Athearn metal cars (stamped metal
parts), there were a lot of differences. The Globe car was made of
stamped aluminum over a wooden core, versus the Athearn's steel with
metal end formers. I never could get the car to stay together, since the
glues I had wouldn't hold the metal parts to the wooden core. I knew
nothing of Goo at that point. Kind of a shame too, as the car was very
attractive. It was a model of a GN aluminum-sided car (I don't know if
it was accurate, probably not), but the sides were unpainted metal with
the lettering crisply screened on, and the finish was quite realistic.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Park Varieties wrote:

From the "For What It Is Worth" Department:
To the best of my knowledge, Athearn never marketed any of the Globe
metal cars under the Athearn brand name . . .

. . . It is my understanding that the Globe tooling was never run in
production by Irv - he just saw an opportunity to eliminate a competitor.
You have to be careful about descriptions on eBay; many people do not really
know the differences between Globe and Athearn cars. Any comments or
corrections of this info. welcomed.

Frank Brua





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Re: A&W 3000-3009 (ex NWX?)

Mark Mathu
 

Thanks to those who identified these cars as possible MDT (I assume
Merchants Despatch Transportation?) cars. I will look into it and if
I find anything meaningful I will report back.


Clark Propst wrote...
You are correct in thinking these root beer cars are probably
not NWX cars.
One thing I'd like to point out -- the A&W cars were not root beer
cars! The A&W stood for Ahnapee & Western - Ahnapee was the name of
a Wisconsin port city. The A&W was built in 1892 and connected the
towns of Casco, Ahnapee (now Algoma) and Sturgeon Bay in Wisconsin's
Door peninsula. Door County and the surrounding regions were big
cherry producing regions, and these cars were often used to ship
canned cherries to other parts of the country.

Roger Hinman wrote...
The bolster reinforcement, the end reinforcements and the
underbody all look to me that these are ex MDT wood reefers;
do you have any dimensional information on the cars?
That would nail it down, since the 41'5" end sill
dimension was fairly unique to MDT
I have October 1949 ORER information and it lists the outside length
as 41'-5" for A&W 3000, 3003 and 3004.

Other dimensions:
Inside 33'-0" between ice tanks, 8'-5" wide, 7'-3" high.
Outside 41'-5" long, 9'-9" wide at eaves, 10'-1" extreme width, 12'-
4" height to eaves, 13'-1" height to running board; 13'-11" extereme
height.
Doors 4'-0" wide x 6'-4" high
1999 cu.ft, 70,000 pound capacity

Richard H. Hendrickson wrote...
Numerous distinctive details - underframe, side sills,
reinforced wood ends, hatch cover rests, etc. - identify
these reefers as former MDT cars.
I can provide scans of several photos of them in MDT service.
Richard -- if the offer is still open, I'd like to see the scans to
help me compare the identifying details. As consideration, here is a
LARGE (2.20MB) image of A&W 3004 (ca. 1953 - note that it is located
in front of the same structure as in one of the previous photos that
I posted):
http://www.greenbayroute.com/A&;W-N.jpg
(Because of storage issues I will only have this file posted a few
days.)

Mark Mathu
Whitefish Bay, Wis.


Re: TP Boxcar

jerryglow2
 

Yes Mr Surfacer is what I was thinking about. Thanks for the mention
of Mr disolved Putty as I do have a few of the MDC cars and want to
try to improve their looks.

Jerry in Fla

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:

On Jul 15, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Jerry,

Are you thinking of "Mr. Surfacer" by Gunze? The military
model guys use it to fill cracks and pits after puttying,
but I don't know how well it would fill grooved siding on
boxcars without cracking. It's my understanding you have
to sand and fill repeatedly with it as well. Ugh...
Mr. Dissolved Putty is the stuff you want. Mr. Surfacer is a good
primer. When I was building aircraft models, I used to add
Squadron
Green to MEK to come up with a soupy putty. By the way, I would
rather
scratchbuild the sides than putty and sand the grooves.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Frank Brua wrote:
"Globe Models was started in 1943 by Frank Taylor (former editor of
Model Railroader) and Carl Traub. Material shortages during WWII kept
them from really getting off the ground but their first AAR box car
kit with factory painted sides was issued in March, 1948. <<snip>>
Frank Taylor sold his interest in the business to Carl Traub in 1950
and in July, 1951 Traub sold the Globe Models trademark and product
lines to Irv Athearn. At that time a very few kits assembled from
existing inventory might have been issued under the Athearn label but
unlikely."

OK - now the light comes on! For years, I've seen bits and pieces of
the Globe AAR boxcars floating around, but never in Globe boxes.
Without being able to put them in any other context, I had assumed
they were another variation of Athearn's metal kits. Now it makes
sense.


"You have to be careful about descriptions on eBay; many people do
not really know the differences between Globe and Athearn cars."

Very true - in this case, the error was mine. One thing that struck
me about the lot that I posted earlier was that (1) all of the the
kits were, indeed, Globe kits, and that (2) the kits in that lot were
NIB in the correct boxes and correctly described.


Ben Hom


Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Frank,

I owned a Globe boxcar I picked up someplace in the mid-1960s. Although the technology was similar to the Athearn metal cars (stamped metal parts), there were a lot of differences. The Globe car was made of stamped aluminum over a wooden core, versus the Athearn's steel with metal end formers. I never could get the car to stay together, since the glues I had wouldn't hold the metal parts to the wooden core. I knew nothing of Goo at that point. Kind of a shame too, as the car was very attractive. It was a model of a GN aluminum-sided car (I don't know if it was accurate, probably not), but the sides were unpainted metal with the lettering crisply screened on, and the finish was quite realistic.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Park Varieties wrote:

From the "For What It Is Worth" Department:
To the best of my knowledge, Athearn never marketed any of the Globe metal cars under the Athearn brand name . . .

. . . It is my understanding that the Globe tooling was never run in production by Irv - he just saw an opportunity to eliminate a competitor. You have to be careful about descriptions on eBay; many people do not really know the differences between Globe and Athearn cars. Any comments or corrections of this info. welcomed.

Frank Brua


Re: Digest Number 1954

Jedalberg
 

Re: B&O stock cars.
Some years ago, say 10 or 12, I bought one of the Overland B&O Pig and Sheep
Cars, S-2, #11400-114066 (this is off the box, I doubt there were 112,000 of
them).
I wrote to the B&O Society, this was before I became a member, and eventually
recieved a nice reply with copies of photos, for lettering, and a note
indicating the cars were red, and that Floquil zinc chromate primer was a good
approximation (I subsequently used this color on a couple of Sunshine wagontops to
good effect).
Jim Dalberg
Paoli,Pa


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Don Valentine
 

Quoting Andy Harman <andy10@gp30.com>:

At 10:45 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Couplers are a funny thing, Andy. I know of at least two Master
Model Railroaders, both now deceased, who were still using Mantua loop
couplers into the late 1960's, in one case, and early 1970's, in the other
case. I think they both had so much equipment they just didn't want to
change.


If I had a well established layout today, and no plans to do a major
makeover, I'd probably stay with Kadee 5's for everything just to remai
compatible. But lacking a real layout, and even though I've got tons of
rolling stock, only a small percentage of it is really "grade A" in that
it is up to my standards and fits my era, I can dabble a bit. But I will
end up making a choice at some point - either the operability between
different brands and styles of couplers will improve, or one brand will
emerge a clear winner. Right now, I'm using 58s but I'm not beyond
backtracking. However, once layout construction starts - a year or two
away I'm afraid - I will probably weigh my options and go with my best
gut feel. If I had to make that choice today, it would be the 58/78 head
and whatever draft gear works.

Andy

Why Backtrack when you are using, IMHO, the best product out there? Since
the 58's and then 78's were introduced my passenger car fleet has been
converted to them, largely the 58's. I understand Ben's point about the
"end view" but am not going to lose much seep over it or else nothing else
will get done. Any new freight cars constructed or purchased have also had
58's or 78's installed and the rest of that fleet will eventually get
converted as well.

Perhaps Kadee could have responded somewhat sooner to the need for bulk
packs of couplers, the need for something more to scale than the 4 and 5
types and saved themselves the loss of a few sales to the "competition".
From my own experience, however, those who have been wooed away to another
make have largely come back. Whether the naysayers like it of not, Kadee
couplers are still the only brand in town....and they will probably still
be around when all the others have gone the way of Mantua loops.

Just my two bits worth.

Don Valentine


Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)

Park Varieties <parkvarieties@...>
 

From the "For What It Is Worth" Department:

To the best of my knowledge, Athearn never marketed any of the Globe metal cars under the Athearn brand name.

Globe Models was started in 1943 by Frank Taylor (former editor of Model Railroader) and Carl Traub. Material shortages during WWII kept them from really getting off the ground but their first AAR box car kit with factory painted sides was issued in March, 1948. Reefers, double door auto and stock cars soon followed with their final new product offering being the single, double and triple dome tank cars in 1950. Frank Taylor sold his interest in the business to Carl Traub in 1950 and in July, 1951 Traub sold the Globe Models trademark and product lines to Irv Athearn. At that time a very few kits assembled from existing inventory might have been issued under the Athearn label but unlikely. It is my understanding that the Globe tooling was never run in production by Irv - he just saw an opportunity to eliminate a competitor. You have to be careful about descriptions on eBay; many people do not really know the differences between Globe and Athearn cars. Any comments or corrections of this info. welcomed.
Frank Brua

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)


Charlie Vlk wrote:
I don't think there were any "Globe" plastic freight car kits, but I
might be wrong because Irv apparently established the Globe label to
distance the cheap plastic stuff from the standard Athearn cast and
stamped metal freight car line...

Not exactly. Athearn did market some of their metal kits under the
Globe label -

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257198525&category=484

- but they also offered a stock car kit with plastic sides that was
pretty close to UP Class S-40-10. The problem with the early stock
car kits was that the plastic used was dimensionally unstable, and
the sides shrank with age. I've got a couple stock car carcasses
where the sides have shrunk considerably. They did correct this
later (I've got another one of these cars MIB with good sides);
however, this did nothing but feed the fire in the "plastic vs metal"
debate during the 1950s.


Ben Hom


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Re: TP Boxcar

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Jul 15, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Jerry,

Are you thinking of "Mr. Surfacer" by Gunze? The military
model guys use it to fill cracks and pits after puttying,
but I don't know how well it would fill grooved siding on
boxcars without cracking. It's my understanding you have
to sand and fill repeatedly with it as well. Ugh...
Mr. Dissolved Putty is the stuff you want. Mr. Surfacer is a good primer. When I was building aircraft models, I used to add Squadron Green to MEK to come up with a soupy putty. By the way, I would rather scratchbuild the sides than putty and sand the grooves.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Valentine wrote:
"How about when you view a single car from the side, Ben, or the cars
of a train as we usually see them. The effect then is considerably
different, though I cannot dispute your point when a car is viewed
only from an end."

That is true - my point is that using just the #58 coupler isn't
going to solve all of your appearance woes. You need to consider the
appearance of the draft gear, or the entire model for that matter. I
get a kick out of watching people slap #58s into unmodified Athearn
40 ft boxcars and then declare the job done.


Ben Hom


Re: TP Boxcar

Shawn Beckert
 

Jerry,

Are you thinking of "Mr. Surfacer" by Gunze? The military
model guys use it to fill cracks and pits after puttying,
but I don't know how well it would fill grooved siding on
boxcars without cracking. It's my understanding you have
to sand and fill repeatedly with it as well. Ugh...


Shawn Beckert


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

Andy Harman <andy10@...>
 

At 01:06 PM 7/15/2004 -0400, you wrote:
How aboiut whejn you view a single car from the side, Ben, or the cars
of a train as we usually see them. The effect then is considerably different,
though I cannot dispute your point when a car is viewed only from an end.
The same can be said about code 88 or other narrow tread wheels. They go to waste tucked under the sill of a modern box car, but in an end view of a hopper car, they make a world of difference.

Andy


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Andy Harman <andy10@...>
 

At 10:45 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Couplers are a funny thing, Andy. I know of at least two Master Model
Railroaders, both now deceased, who were still using Mantua loop couplers
into the late 1960's, in one case, and early 1970's, in the other case.
I think they both had so much equipment they just didn't want to change.
If I had a well established layout today, and no plans to do a major makeover, I'd probably stay with Kadee 5's for everything just to remain compatible. But lacking a real layout, and even though I've got tons of rolling stock, only a small percentage of it is really "grade A" in that it is up to my standards and fits my era, I can dabble a bit. But I will end up making a choice at some point - either the operability between different brands and styles of couplers will improve, or one brand will emerge a clear winner. Right now, I'm using 58s but I'm not beyond backtracking. However, once layout construction starts - a year or two away I'm afraid - I will probably weigh my options and go with my best gut feel. If I had to make that choice today, it would be the 58/78 head and whatever draft gear works.

Andy


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

I just installed 58's on two new freight cars I am building in my hotel
room, and they do not have the gap! I often build car kits when traveling
on business. Its better than anything on TV.

Regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:17 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] BLI Hopper Mods




-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org]
good looking coupler. The Kadee 58 has a
noticeable gap
between the knuckle and the "fist", which is why
I have
stopped using them.
Andy, I've read (right here!) that Kadee's revised
the 58 so as to reduce the gaposis problem.

I haven't seen them, though, so can't give any
first-hand info.

SGL





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Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

Don Valentine
 

Quoting benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net>:


FWIW, my $.02 on the #58 - I think it's wasted when you mount it in
the "Athearn standard" #5 coupler pocket, because now it really draws
attention to the fact that the draft gear is too wide and shallow. I
feel that the net improvement in appearance is zero.

How aboiut whejn you view a single car from the side, Ben, or the cars
of a train as we usually see them. The effect then is considerably different,
though I cannot dispute your point when a car is viewed only from an end.

Don Valentine


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

Joe Binish <joebinish@...>
 

Ben et al,
I have to agree that the 58 in the wide/shallow dg looks silly, but the
closer to correct 58 looks good when coupled to another in a freight train.
We have not noticed any operational problems on my buddy Rich Remiarz's GN
layout, although we haven't opped lately, as Rich keeps tearing up the track
work to make it "better!"
Joe Binish

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