Date   

In Defense of Broadway Limited's PRR K7a Stock Cars

Greg Martin
 

tmolsen@... writes:
I hope that copying brass models will not be a wave of the future as we
already have a lot of equipment that suffers from lack of research. I have a buddy
that calls equipment that has cast-on ladders, grab irons and other detail,
including parts that are oversized, "HO Tinplate" and he refuses to buy it! I
agree with him that it costs the same amount of money to make it right as it
does to do it wrong!

Tom Olsen
Tom seems to illud that the BLI soon to be released PRR K7A Stock car might
have been scaled to a brass offering... I am not sure how one might draw this
conclusion without having a sample I hand, but there doesn't seem to be any
evidence of it... I hope that Tom's statements don't mislead anyone as I read
them to be pure speculation...

I can say that some of the recognized issues with the car are being addressed
currently and hopefully corrected prior to release...

Greg Martin


Off topic - looking for address

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Can anyone here provide me (off list probably
best) with the address for Gregory M Smith,
President (I think) of the B&O Historical Society?

SGL


Re: Digest Number 2013

Malcolm H. Houck
 

In a message dated 8/21/2004 11:10:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
Which ever you use in grit-blasting cars, it is best to wear a mask to
prevent inhalation of whatever media you are using. A little precaution
goes a long way.
With a blasting cabinet the media material is contained, falls to the bottom
to be recycled through the blast nozzle. That purpose of the "cabinet" is
avoid the need for respiration equipment in the first place. Some media leaks out
[via the pressure release vent], so it's not a bad idea to wear a paper mask,
but not much more is needed if the cabinet is used with care.

So far as media is concerned, sand "wears out" by breaking up as it's used.
The fastest "cutting" is with the maximum surface area in the media. Play Sand,
being rather coarse, in addition to the disagreeable feature of the particles
actually shattering [which is also a feature of beads; -- they break up too,
and "wear out"], just doesn't cut as fast as a finer material. That notion may
seem contra-indicated, that finer material cuts faster than material more
coarse, but that's my experience with blasting media.

Baking soda is the preferred media used by commercial firms whose business it
is to strip fiberglass (Corvette) automobile bodies. It's extremely fine, and
tends to be messy, from what I've observed of its use commercially.

Blasting in the cabinet successfully is a combination of both media and
properly regulated air pressure. Yes, indeed, brass models {especially the
"imports" that use a very soft and limber brass} will warp if approached without care.
I've found that warping is usually caused by both air pressure that's too
high, and media that's too rough. Sand is a special culprit, as a media, in brass
models warping.

I like to use #340 or #440 grit ALOX [Aluminum Oxide]. For brass an easy 30
psi cuts with no damage at all, albeit at a slower rate that with higher
pressure. Paint removal is easily done, but will slow dramatically if the paint is
"soft." Blasting Floquil paints that aren't years old and well cured will be
slow, at best, and will tempt one to turn up the pressure. Scalecoat comes off
quite well since it cures quite hard. On brass models I'll give them an
overnight soak in MEK, and what doesn't dissolve or float away is no longer securely
bonded to the parent metal and blasts away very rapidly.

On plastic there's little trouble with 30 psi, or even less, for paint
removal or simple preparation. I keep the material nozzle at about a forty-five
degree angle to the work and have little or not problem with complete cleaning.
The 440 media will put some texture to the plastic, but that will only make
removing the new coat that much more difficult due to an enhanced mechanical bond.

I like to machine the blast nozzles of the gun 1/4" in diameter from free
machining 2101 steel. I heat it cherry red, after turning and boring, and then
oil quench it to dead hard. I don't bother to temper, though it can be easily
done at home in an oven or toaster oven. 400 degrees F will temper 2101 steel to
C62, about the hardness and toughness of a woodworker's chisel. Put a pinch
of table salt on the tray with the item being tempered and when the salt melts,
it's 400 F. But, as I stated, I've come to believe that's not worth the
trouble to temper these little nozzles. The abrasive media will wear through the
nozzle in not very much time, and that will dramatically slow the cutting of the
media in the blast cabinet, so there will be a need to either purchase or
make new replacement nozzles with some regularity.

All of this is likely much more than any one wanted to know, but it's based
on my experience with the use of a blasting cabinet for the last thirty years.
If anybody needs to know more, contact me off the list.

Mal Houck


Burgled!

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

I can't believe I am writing this for 2 reasons. First, I can't believe it
happened, and second that I noticed it just now. I have been to 3 events
this year; the RPM meet in Malvern Pa. in the spring, the PRR convention and
the NASG convention where I was promoting my S Scale X29 project. I have had
the ring binder of my collection of X29 photos on the table to look at. This
book has been left unattended. The 3 B&O M26b photos that WERE in there are
not now. One of them was a recently acquired PRR Builders photo # E12841. I
scanned it when I first got it on 3-5-04. That was just before the RPM meet.
I have looked in my usual piles to no avail. I always file new photos right
away, especially if they are for the X29 project. They were in that ring
binder.

If you took them as a joke I ain't laughing. If you borrowed them and forgot
to tell me PLEASE return them ASAP anonymously or otherwise. My address is
on my Lanes Trains website.

If something like this did happen I guess I am glad it was only 3 photos and
not the whole book. That would have been devastating to me. Most people know
that I am pretty free with my photo collection. ASK me if you want a copy of
something, you will probably get it. They did not have to be stolen.

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com <http://www.lanestrains.com/>

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com <http://www.pennsysmodels.com/>
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


Re: NH XM7

Al & Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Roger - Thanks for the info. It means that the car is not an XM7 but indeed
the one in Chris and John's MM article. Thanks.
- Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Hinman" <rhinman@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NH XM7


The car at Essex is ex New Haven 17728; there was a very good article
done on these rebuilds in MMOD Jul and Sep 1988
which included underframe drawings. I have a photo somewhere; hopefully
the number will tell you what you want to know.
The Essex car has the steel ends; this was done in resin by F&C.

Roger Hinman


Re: NH XM7

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

The car at Essex is ex New Haven 17728; there was a very good article done on these rebuilds in MMOD Jul and Sep 1988
which included underframe drawings. I have a photo somewhere; hopefully the number will tell you what you want to know.
The Essex car has the steel ends; this was done in resin by F&C.

Roger Hinman

On Aug 21, 2004, at 11:02 AM, Al & Patricia Westerfield wrote:

I've learned that the gift shop of the Essex CT Railroad Museum is probably
the NH XM7 that I will be modeling. Has anyone photographed the car there?
I need to identify it first, then if it is, arrange to get some underbody
shots if possible.
- Al Westerfield






Yahoo! Groups Links





Cut lever and air line for PM Greenville gondola

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm about to start building a Proto 2000 Greenville gondola kit of
Pere Marquette 18937. Does anyone know the correct type of cut lever
for this car, and how the air hose should be attached? I plan to use
a Kadee part for the air hose, if this helps.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


NH XM7

Al & Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

I've learned that the gift shop of the Essex CT Railroad Museum is probably
the NH XM7 that I will be modeling. Has anyone photographed the car there?
I need to identify it first, then if it is, arrange to get some underbody
shots if possible.
- Al Westerfield


Re: Broadway Limited's PRR K7a Stock Cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

There was a number of emails regarding the upcoming release of the Broadway Limited K7A stock cars. I have to agree with Ben and others that the car definitely has a lettering problem. I compared the reproduction car listed on the site with photos from the PRR photos that I have and the car data lettering is too large. Broadway has spread them over too many of the horizontal side slats. I have also noticed that the pre-production sample on the web site, in addition to the lettering problem, also has ladders that look to be standing out too far from the car side, in addition to the other problems mention on the list before. If you look at the web site, also note that there is no listing of car numbers that are available as they had done with the N&W H2a hoppers.

I wonder if Broadway Limited is using a brass model to copy this car from, rather than using drawings and photos. Unfortunately, if they
are, then we are in trouble! The only K7/K7a that I know of was the Precision Scale brass model issued about 12 years ago which was so bad that they gave them away for $30-$40 each at the National Train Show at the Long Beach NMRA convention later on. The side slats were too narrow to letter the car properly and I know of very few people who had bought them! It is interesting that the Broadway PRR M1a/b's all had the same problem with missing trainphone tender equipment hatches that all the brass models were missing, with the exception of the Challenger models which did not miss anything!

I hope that copying brass models will not be a wave of the future as we already have a lot of equipment that suffers from lack of research. I have a buddy that calls equipment that has cast-on ladders, grab irons and other detail, including parts that are oversized, "HO Tinplate" and he refuses to buy it! I agree with him that it costs the same amount of money to make it right as it does to do it wrong!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: Blasting

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Which ever you use in grit-blasting cars, it is best to wear a mask to prevent inhalation of whatever media you are using. A little precaution goes a long way.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware

Eric Hiser wrote:

Be careful with the sand -- inhalation can lead to silicosis. Beads,
aluminum or similar media work well. Baking soda also works well for fine
and delicate jobs.
Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ
_____ From: Edwin C Kirstatter [mailto:q1xamacarthur@...] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 8:14 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re. stripping Scalecoat paint.
I use a Blasting cabinet also. It is a whole new ball game. I am not an
expert at it yet. But it does work with a whole lot less fuss and mess. Hold your blasting nozzle at a 45 degree angle to the surface to be
cleaned of paint or corrosion. If the surface has oil or grease the
blasting medium will not penetrate. I use common play sand or beads. I
also have Aluminum oxide for a very finely finished surface. On a brass
model with lots of unreinforced flat surfaces you can warp the metal.
I haven't tried it on a plastic model yet, but if it bounces off that oil
or grease I am sure it will bounce off that plastic an take the paint
with it!
Edwin C. Kirstatter. B&O Modeler. ________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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Re: 1937 AAR

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Good morning Schuyler & List,

On Thursday afternoon, I received an updated Spring 2004 kit update list from Tricia Lofton that I had requested when I spoke with her and Martin the previous Monday. This is the latest list that was issued just prior to the California shows that Martin had attended this past Spring. The Buckeye End Erie car (kit #18.1) and the Deco End C&O car (Kit #18.2) are still on the list, although in the past, they were marked for close-out.

The only cars that she crossed off the list are the "Howe Truss Outside Braced Box Cars (Kit #'s 17.2 through 17.15) and the S.P. de Mexico express B-50-14 (Kit #17.9).

The PFE kits that were listed on previous lists as close-outs are still on the list in that category. This list now advises of the Notice of Delay in Filling Orders. I have had an order for 15 kits in since mid-March and she advises that it should be filled in early September. They still have a 6-Month order lag due to overwhelming demand.

I laugh when I have someone tell me that no one builds kits anymore, especially the "HARD" ones!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: Clark Propst [mailto:cepropst@...]
HO Deco end available separately
Sunshine has/had a kit for these cars.
Clark Propst
Unfortunately, presently OP.
SGL
Yahoo! Groups Links


Blasting

Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
 

Be careful with the sand -- inhalation can lead to silicosis. Beads,
aluminum or similar media work well. Baking soda also works well for fine
and delicate jobs.

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ

_____

From: Edwin C Kirstatter [mailto:q1xamacarthur@...]
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 8:14 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re. stripping Scalecoat paint.


I use a Blasting cabinet also. It is a whole new ball game. I am not an
expert at it yet. But it does work with a whole lot less fuss and mess.
Hold your blasting nozzle at a 45 degree angle to the surface to be
cleaned of paint or corrosion. If the surface has oil or grease the
blasting medium will not penetrate. I use common play sand or beads. I
also have Aluminum oxide for a very finely finished surface. On a brass
model with lots of unreinforced flat surfaces you can warp the metal.

I haven't tried it on a plastic model yet, but if it bounces off that oil
or grease I am sure it will bounce off that plastic an take the paint
with it!

Edwin C. Kirstatter. B&O Modeler.

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
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Re. stripping Scalecoat paint.

Edwin C Kirstatter <q1xamacarthur@...>
 

I use a Blasting cabinet also. It is a whole new ball game. I am not an
expert at it yet. But it does work with a whole lot less fuss and mess.
Hold your blasting nozzle at a 45 degree angle to the surface to be
cleaned of paint or corrosion. If the surface has oil or grease the
blasting medium will not penetrate. I use common play sand or beads. I
also have Aluminum oxide for a very finely finished surface. On a brass
model with lots of unreinforced flat surfaces you can warp the metal.

I haven't tried it on a plastic model yet, but if it bounces off that oil
or grease I am sure it will bounce off that plastic an take the paint
with it!

Edwin C. Kirstatter. B&O Modeler.

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!


Re: 1937 AAR

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Clark Propst [mailto:cepropst@...]

HO Deco end available separately
Sunshine has/had a kit for these cars.
Clark Propst

Unfortunately, presently OP.

SGL


Re: 1937 AAR

Robert Cheeks <Rcheeks666@...>
 

Bill

Your friend needs to find Sunshine Models kit #18.2
I picked mine up as a closeout so it may take some searching.

Robert Cheeks
Riverside CA

snip

I have a good friend who models the C&O in 1949, unfortunately in HO.
Is there any chance at all that an HO version of the C&O Deco end car
might be made? My friend would kill for some of those. He has told me
that there is no HO Deco end available separately. Do you know if, in
fact, such an HO door can be had?
Thanks
Bill Williams


Re: 1937 AAR

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

. He has told me
that there is no HO Deco end available separately. Do you know if, in
fact, such an HO door can be had?
Thanks
Bill Williams

Bill, Keith Retterererer used to sell the ends and doors in HO. Sunshine
has/had a kit for these cars.
Clark Propst


Re: 1937 AAR

Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Rich Yoder" <oscale48@c...> wrote:
Hi,
I have announced a 1937 AAR Box car project in "O" scale.
The focus of which is a unique car - the C&O Deco end car.
Before going further if anyone out there has any additional
suggestions in
regards to other unusual cars of that circa I am all ears.
Sincerely,
Richard Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
www.richyodermodels.com
Rich
I have a good friend who models the C&O in 1949, unfortunately in HO.
Is there any chance at all that an HO version of the C&O Deco end car
might be made? My friend would kill for some of those. He has told me
that there is no HO Deco end available separately. Do you know if, in
fact, such an HO door can be had?
Thanks
Bill Williams


Re: Scalecoat paint

buchwaldfam <buchwaldfam@...>
 

I've used 91% alcohol very successfully to pull off floquil paint
too. Oh, yeah, it also removes (much to my distress), whatever type
of finish Kadee uses on their PS-1 cars. (I overdid the weathering in
one spot, dipped a towel in some alcohol to remove the fresh paint,
and in about two seconds, had removed the factory paint!)
It works well, however it evaporates very quickly, as compared to
brake fluid, which is "oilier", and doesn't evaporate a fast.

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I thought S-II could be stripped with 91% rubbing alcohol. No?"

NOW you tell me. Where were you 4 months ago? ;-)

Seriously, I'll give it a try on the next batch. Thanks for the
tip!


Ben Hom


stripping Scalecoat

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

I have been using Scalecoat exclusively for the car color since I started
painting. I have not had any trouble stripping it once I discovered using
auto lacquer thinner. I did have a very difficult time stripping some
factory painted models. I used a Tal Strip spray gel 3 times to almost get
it clean. It was very nasty stuff. Of course all of this is old news since I
got my blast booth. It is a complete and nondiscriminatory abuser. ALL paint
and clear coats immediately surrenders to the blast booth without a chance
of remaining. Note - all of this would probably be very bad to plastic
models. I can't remember the last time I painted a plastic model.

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com <http://www.lanestrains.com/>

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com <http://www.pennsysmodels.com/>
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


Re: 1937 AAR

Tim O'Connor
 

Rich,

One other interesting variation of the 1937 AAR box car was
the Central of Georgia cars delivered with "door-and-a-half"
openings (a 6' door and a 3' door).


I have announced a 1937 AAR Box car project in "O" scale.
The focus of which is a unique car - the C&O Deco end car.
Before going further if anyone out there has any additional
suggestions in
regards to other unusual cars of that circa I am all ears.
Sincerely,
Richard Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
www.richyodermodels.com

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