Date   

Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

Jim or Lisa Hayes <jim-and-lisa@...>
 

If the Sunshine kit was so disappointing and don't know if it's even
available, why not continue the effort in making this worth subject
car available?

Jerry in Fla
------------------------
I agree. If you end up creating either a partial or complete kit, please
make it available to us. I think most of us could get by without
instructions or prototype data, so don't let that hold you back.

Jim Hayes
Portland OR


Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

Ed Hawkins
 

On Saturday, September 11, 2004, at 01:29 PM, Joe Binish wrote:

I am trying to find a set of plans for the GN 37 wood sheathed cars of 37
design. The 4/38 MR has a set, but the hobby shops in this area don't carry
50+ year old back issues(go figure). Sunshine makes several kits, but the
group I hang out with needs about 150 cars, so $30 a pop is rather spendy.
Our idea was to buy the RC kit(at a greatly reduced price!), buzz of the
sides and cast the wood side. The plans would help with the masters for the
sides. These guys are Goat Nuzzlers, but they say their "society" doesn't
have em. Anybody got a set squirreled away?
Joe,
AC&F drawings are available for these cars from the Museum of Transportation's collection. The AC&F drawings were actually made from Pullman-Standard drawings as reverse sepia copies (white line on a brown background), then modified slightly per the way AC&F constructed the cars. There are drawings for the side construction (6147495, a paper copy in very fragile condition), underframe and brake arrangement (6147494), and a drawing containing various steel details, including brake parts (4147707). These drawings are atypical to the vast majority of AC&F drawings that normally had an AC&F title block and were drawn by AC&F personnel. There are also a couple of smaller detail drawings showing the crossbearer diaphragms and bolster cover plates.

In addition to the above, it is my understanding that the Illinois Railway Museum has "uncovered" a large stash of P-S original freight car drawings that likely came from their Michigan City facility. I've recently been in contact with Ted Anderson, Curator of the IRM Library. Ted is working on cataloguing these drawings. I've been helping him define the lot numbers and other aspects of the cars. It's possible that the IRM may have these same drawings created by Pullman-Standard, but they would be the original drawings and easier to copy. The AC&F drawings from lot 1675 show the P-S drawing numbers (from P-S lot 5565) so it might not be difficult to locate the original P-S drawings at the IRM. In any event, the drawings in the MOT collection might work for you. These drawings would be a heck of a lot better than what appeared in any modeling magazine. If you want to pursue this, contact me off list.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Magazine publishing

Scott Pitzer
 

The comp copy was the first I saw of the last thing I submitted to RMJ. And I pity anyone who tried to make the same freight car, out of the kit the article's new subtitle referred to!
Scott Pitzer
=======

-----Original Message-----
From: jerryglow2 <jerryglow@...>
Sent: Sep 12, 2004 6:10 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Magazine publishing

Unless they've changed their policy, RMJ does NOT do this. I've
authored a few articles and the first I've seen is a "comp" copy of
the issue in which the article appeared


Railroad ID help, please, GF&A Ry

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Help please.

I just went to look at a house in my neighborhood
which is on the market. Curious about that house,
so took the opportunity to see what was there.
Old house, only two families in it since 1885.

It's still furnished, and on the wall in a study
was a panorama photo, probably 10" high by 60" or
more wide. It shows a harbor off to the left, an
urban scene mid-right, with a new power plant at
the extreme right. The harbor is full of sailing
ships, no steamers that I could find, though the
room was not the best lit I've seen (which has
probably been good for the photo over the years).

It is annotated with GF&A features, "Marine
Terminal, Clssification Yard, Passenger and
Freight Station."

Several businesses have their names painted on the
facades, which will help:

Uneeda Biscuit (fairly common, I'd guess)
West Florida Grocery Company (probably locally
specific)
The Lewis Bear Company, Wholesale Groceries (also
locally specific, maybe)
W A Ray Hardware Company
Gautensen & Morrill, Riggers and Sailmakers

This New England mind thought: "Gainesville,
(mumble) and Atlanta?" Well, don't laugh,
Floridians, I already found out that Gainesville's
not on the coast, and this place is. So that's
not it. Unless the "A" is the coastal city, or
the "F" is.

I checked out my 1984 copy of Edson's "Railroad
Names" which lists
Georgia, Florida & Alabama, and
Gulf, Florida & Alabama,
So those are possibilities. But what port would I
be looking at?

SGL


Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

Paul Lyons
 

Maybe a real start would be to see if someone could get Byron Rose to market, or give to someone to market, the end master he has already made. (Are you listening AL)
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Re: Magazine publishing

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Chris Barkan asks:

In professional science and engineering publising (and I imagine most other
areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semi-final copy and is asked to review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the other magazines?

Model Railroader and MR Planning sends proofs.

Mike Brock


Re: Magazine publishing

Tom Houle <thoule@...>
 

Mainline Modeler and Model Railoading currently send paper proof - not digital - copies to the author. These are actual copies of the finished article with the text, photos, and drawings in place as it will appear in print. The author is asked to make any needed changes and return ASAP.
Tom Houle

----- Original Message -----
From: CBarkan@...
To: STMFC@...
Cc: rhendrickson@...
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 5:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Magazine publishing


In a message dated 9/8/04 11:02:40 AM, rhendrickson@... writes:

<< The key to getting things in print the way you want them is to develop a
comfortable working relationship with the publication and its editor that
includes a mutual understanding of its objectives and limitations. And that's not
easy. >>

In professional science and engineering publising (and I imagine most other
areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semi-final copy and is asked to review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the other magazines?

Chris

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Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

jerryglow2
 

If the Sunshine kit was so disappointing and don't know if it's even
available, why not continue the effort in making this worth subject
car available?

Jerry in Fla

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@s...> wrote:
Hello Joe,
Some years ago I was working on Pattern work for this
very same GN series of DS cars in HO. I was introduced
to Byron Rose by Richard Hendricksen when he told me
Byron was working on the same car.

Byron had the end completed, and he was looking for
some underframe information. Shortly after this
introduction, Sunshine brought out the same car in a
very disappointing manner (for me), and I have
mothballed my efforts, as has the RPA.

Converting a 37 AAR car to save money is laudable, and
you will do much better than the Sunshine kit. I would
advise you to take a good look at the GN ends, for
they are very different from the VERY WRONG 4/5 RC
end.

The ends of the GN series is rather unique in that the
sides of the corners does not have the notch at the
top close to the roof attachment area. Also. the car
end has a very pronounced "Z" shape joining the sides
to the ends. Sort of a modified square corner post
end. Using Details West's ends are a start, but
removing the cast in ladder brackets in the riveted
seem connection a challenge.

I recommend that you do the ends in resin, and don't
bother cloning the Sunshine ends.....way too many
errors make it unsalvageable.

Look forward to seeing the finished Binish version.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




--- Joe Binish <joebinish@e...> wrote:

Hello,
I am wondering if ant of you floks could be of help.
I am trying to find a set of plans for the GN 37
wood sheathed cars of 37
design. The 4/38 MR has a set, but the hobby shops
in this area don't carry
50+ year old back issues(go figure). Sunshine makes
several kits, but the
group I hang out with needs about 150 cars, so $30 a
pop is rather spendy.
Our idea was to buy the RC kit(at a greatly reduced
price!), buzz of the
sides and cast the wood side. The plans would help
with the masters for the
sides.


Re: Magazine publishing

jerryglow2
 

Unless they've changed their policy, RMJ does NOT do this. I've
authored a few articles and the first I've seen is a "comp" copy of
the issue in which the article appeared. Although they used the
articles word for word, the one I did on a friend's layout was
divided into 3 separate articles in the same issue and in the
process, they introduced a few errors. When I wrote in about the
errors they even got the correction wrong!

Jerry in Fla

--- In STMFC@..., CBarkan@a... wrote:
In a message dated 9/8/04 11:02:40 AM, rhendrickson@o... writes:
In professional science and engineering publising (and I imagine
most other
areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semi-final copy and is asked
to review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM
used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the
other magazines?

Chris


Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

Joe Binish <joebinish@...>
 

Andy et all,
Now that we have scratched the surface, it looks like we are almost making a
completely new whew kit. Whew, will have to test our motivations and mettle
for this one!
Joe


Re: Seeking paint suggestions for boxcars

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@h...> wrote:
Hello everyone,

I'm about to start painting several boxcars, and I need some advice
regarding what paint colors to use. I've included links to photos,
but all are black and white. My era is 1947, if that is any help.

1) Rock Island USRA double-sheathed boxcar. Paint scheme following
resheathing in 1930s. There is a prototype photo in the pay section
of the Rensselear website, and a Westerfield model photo at:
http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/


2) Great Northern USRA double-sheathed boxcar. Paint scheme with the
side-facing goat logo and black roof and ends. Prototype photo at:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/gn25096main.html


3) New Haven 1937 AAR boxcar. As built scheme with black door.
Prototype photo at:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/nh32077main.html

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden
Mark,
Pat Wider wrote a very useful article for Railway Prototype Cyclopedia
#3 which included a great number of paint formulas for various road
names. I believe that volume #3 is out of print, so I'll list the
colours you're asking about.

Floquil colours
Rock Island 1 part #74(baxcar red) + 1 part #186(Oxide red)

GN
Post-war 1 part #74(boxcar red) + 1 part #186(oxide red)
pre-war 1 part#74(boxcar red) + 1 part #175(southern freight car brown)

The article shows no formula for the New Haven.
I'm quite happy with the end reults so far of this chart. Be advised
though some of these colours will not match what one sees on other
websites. Remember, the issue of colour is a very subjective thing. If
it looks right to you then it is.
Good luck with your painting,
Pierre Oliver
http://www.elgincarshops.com/

Hope this helps


Re: 5 th Ave car Shops

Greg Martin
 

Paul writes:
If Jim from 5th Ave Car Shops is on this list will you please contact me
off list.

Thank you.

Paul Catapano

Jim, is not connected to the Internet. If you need his phone number contact
me off-list.

Greg Martin


Re: Magazine publishing

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Chris Barkan wrote:
In professional science and engineering publishing (and I imagine most other
areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semi-final copy and is asked to
review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the other
magazines?

Hundman still does; Bill Schuamburg at Railroad Model Craftsman does as
well.


Ben Hom


Re: Magazine publishing

Greg Martin
 

CBarkan@... writes:
In professional science and engineering publishing (and I imagine most other
areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semifinal copy and is asked to review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the other magazines?

Chris
Chris,

I have always heard them referred to as a "blueline" and yes Hundman does,
Randy Lee does, and RMC does.

Greg Martin


Re: Magazine publishing

kenedmier@...
 

In a message dated 9/12/2004 6:17:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
CBarkan@... writes:

In professional science and engineering publising (and I imagine most other

areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semi-final copy and is asked to
review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the other
magazines?

Model Railroading Magazine does.

Ken Edmier


Magazine publishing

CBarkan@...
 

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:02:40 AM, rhendrickson@... writes:

<< The key to getting things in print the way you want them is to develop a
comfortable working relationship with the publication and its editor that
includes a mutual understanding of its objectives and limitations. And that's not
easy. >>

In professional science and engineering publising (and I imagine most other
areas) the author sees "proofs" of the semi-final copy and is asked to review
them and indicate any errors that may have crept in. Hundman at MM used to
offer this option (I don't know if he still does). Do any of the other magazines?

Chris


Published Colors (was SFRD paint)

CBarkan@...
 

In a message dated 9/11/04 8:58:03 AM, ed_mines@... asks:

<< Is this yellow typical from fading? Could the printer be responsible for
the change from orange to yellow? Everything I remember has these car sides as
orange. >>

Let me emphatically say, yes!

Having just completed publication of the 2005 B&O Railroad Historical Society
calendar this is fresh in my mind. I am no expert at this but can offer the
following. Tony T and some of the others with more experience can probably
refine what I say, but here is what I have learned over the past few years.

There are several steps between original and final printed product that are
affected by the answers to the following questions.

1) Did the original film render the color correctly and has it changed over
the years?
2) How well were the scans of the original material done?
3) How well were the "separations" which are used by the pressman completed?
4) How well has the pressman adjusted the color press?

(there may be some other steps that I am unaware of)

If any of these is off, the final product may be as well, although step 4
allows for some corrections (but also allows for the introduction of more error).
The final step we take is a "press check" in which we stand at the end of
the press and examine the sheets coming off and then stop and fine tune the
color balance on the press compared to the original material (affected by 1
above). But if steps 2 and 3 were not executed properly, step 4 may or may not be
able to bring the final printed version back to what the original looked like
after step 1 (and the original film itself may not be correct as has been
discussed here before).

In our calendar layout we only have four large sheets and the design of the
press allows for a fair amount of localized color adjustment on different parts
of each sheet. But adjusting the color on one picture will often involve
compromises regarding all the other colors in the same picture, so the pressman
will generally care more about the overall balance than the exact shade of the
locomotive or boxcar of interest to a particular individual. I try to be
there for each press check and can offer my opinions about what the most important
colors in each picture are, but I suspect that is the exception rather than
the norm. Also, depending on the layout of the sheet and the design of the
press, circumstances can easily arise in which adjusting the color on one
picture will affect another, so the final represents a further compromise. And,
all of this depends on a pressman who cares and is talented.

As I said, we have only four sheets and it is not a particularly onerous task
to carefully examine each one and adjust as necessary. But if someone is
doing many dozens or hundreds of pages as in a book, I am not sure how well the
press check on each page is typically done. Also the graphic layout of our
calendar allows most pictures to be adjusted individually without being
concerned with the effect on another picture, but that will often not be the case.

Even if all the steps up to the final press stage are done very well, the
pressman has a lot of latitude in the color balance so as I said, he better care
and be good at his job for the color to come out right. The bottom line is
that relying on the subtleties of color in printed material is risky (which is
not to say wrong). They may be dead on and they may not be, but it is hard to
know if it is truly correct.

And yes there are several pictures of freight cars in the 2005 B&O calendar,
including a color photo by Soph Marty of two of the B&O's blue and orange
"Timesaver Sevice" boxcars. I'll let you all decide if their color is rendered
correctly!

Chris

P.S. The 2005 B&O calendar features a number of Soph Marty's B&O pictures,
several of which are truly outstanding. Many thanks to him for loaning us his
material.


Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

Andy Carlson
 

Hello Joe,
Some years ago I was working on Pattern work for this
very same GN series of DS cars in HO. I was introduced
to Byron Rose by Richard Hendricksen when he told me
Byron was working on the same car.

Byron had the end completed, and he was looking for
some underframe information. Shortly after this
introduction, Sunshine brought out the same car in a
very disappointing manner (for me), and I have
mothballed my efforts, as has the RPA.

Converting a 37 AAR car to save money is laudable, and
you will do much better than the Sunshine kit. I would
advise you to take a good look at the GN ends, for
they are very different from the VERY WRONG 4/5 RC
end.

The ends of the GN series is rather unique in that the
sides of the corners does not have the notch at the
top close to the roof attachment area. Also. the car
end has a very pronounced "Z" shape joining the sides
to the ends. Sort of a modified square corner post
end. Using Details West's ends are a start, but
removing the cast in ladder brackets in the riveted
seem connection a challenge.

I recommend that you do the ends in resin, and don't
bother cloning the Sunshine ends.....way too many
errors make it unsalvageable.

Look forward to seeing the finished Binish version.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




--- Joe Binish <joebinish@...> wrote:

Hello,
I am wondering if ant of you floks could be of help.
I am trying to find a set of plans for the GN 37
wood sheathed cars of 37
design. The 4/38 MR has a set, but the hobby shops
in this area don't carry
50+ year old back issues(go figure). Sunshine makes
several kits, but the
group I hang out with needs about 150 cars, so $30 a
pop is rather spendy.
Our idea was to buy the RC kit(at a greatly reduced
price!), buzz of the
sides and cast the wood side. The plans would help
with the masters for the
sides.


Re: Old Red Ball container car

Al & Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Jon - Red Ball issued an early NYC experimental car, 5 of which were built.
They did not carry mail. The cars that carried mail were the USRA mill gons
fitted with spacers to carry the high value containers - see our carload
#8193. Even so, it is unlikely that more than a few of the gons were fitted
for mail or that it was more than a short-lived publicity stunt. The Red
Ball cars were probably painted the same as the later cars - black cars with
red containers. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie Miller" <atsf@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Old Red Ball container car


One of these is for sale and the seller made the following comment;
"The primary cargo was US mail hence the color of old mailboxes"
I have one lettered Penn and painted green (Allied HS trucks) and
basically kept it as I built it a long time ago (memories).
I always thought they were general LCL containers and had never heard
they carried mail. Did they?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS






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Re: GN 37 2X SHEATHED CAR

Joe Binish <joebinish@...>
 

Jeff,
Well, if we can get the RC car at about $15, then a resin side might be
about $5, we are in better shape. Thanks for the info on the uframe, this
will come in handy. I will check out the Kalmbach Library, kinda forgot
about that one(red faced)
Joe Binish

162921 - 162940 of 197081