Date   

Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Jeff Coleman
 

-
Denis,
The term tripple valve has been used by railroad personal from the
time the AB valve was introduced. This is due to the control valve
being made up of three pieces. The center section called the "pipe
bracket" where all the piping is contected. On one side there is
the "service portion" and on the other side the "emergency portion".
The release valve is attached to the service portion.

Jeff Coleman

-- In STMFC@..., "Denis F. Blake" <dblake2996@w...> wrote:
Guys

A quick explanation of valves on freight cars.

There is the control valve which controls the release of air from
the reservoir(s). A brake reservoir is broken into two parts. The
service side and the emergency side. The control valve controls
which side is used.

There is a retainer valve which has setting on it that determines
which "mode" of braking will be used on the car. The retainer valve
retains the air and allows various levels of brake exhaust during
normal application of brakes

Then there is the release rod which bleeds the air on the car that
is being held in the main reservoir AFTER the car is put into
emergency. Putting a car in emergency is what happens when an angle
cock on a car is left open and the car is cut away from the remainder
of the train. The emergency application of brakes will hold the car
for a period of time until the air still in the car bleeds off. It is
not acceptable to leave a car in emergency without having hand brakes
applied as well. This is probably the one that Tim is talking
about. It is a rod that extends from the side of the car, on both
sides, that is connected to a valve.

The control valve is what modelers commonly call a triple valve.
Control Valve is the proper name for this. Triple valve is a
modelers term.

Denis Blake
NS Conductor
Columbus, OH
----- Original Message -----
From: cf5250
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: SP A-50-14 doors



Scott, do you mean the retainer valve, or the release valve?

Every car has a valve for dumping the air from the reservoir,
and there is a "release rod" reachable from either side of the
car. This is usually found in line with the AB valve on box
cars. Most modelers never bother with this even though it makes
a nice detail and is almost always visible from the side of the
car.

> can anyone say what that is below the side sill, just above the
builder's advertising sign in the builder's photo? I put the
control
valve there, even though that's a strange place for it.
> Scott Pitzer


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Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Denis F. Blake <dblake2996@...>
 

Guys

A quick explanation of valves on freight cars.

There is the control valve which controls the release of air from the reservoir(s). A brake reservoir is broken into two parts. The service side and the emergency side. The control valve controls which side is used.

There is a retainer valve which has setting on it that determines which "mode" of braking will be used on the car. The retainer valve retains the air and allows various levels of brake exhaust during normal application of brakes

Then there is the release rod which bleeds the air on the car that is being held in the main reservoir AFTER the car is put into emergency. Putting a car in emergency is what happens when an angle cock on a car is left open and the car is cut away from the remainder of the train. The emergency application of brakes will hold the car for a period of time until the air still in the car bleeds off. It is not acceptable to leave a car in emergency without having hand brakes applied as well. This is probably the one that Tim is talking about. It is a rod that extends from the side of the car, on both sides, that is connected to a valve.

The control valve is what modelers commonly call a triple valve. Control Valve is the proper name for this. Triple valve is a modelers term.

Denis Blake
NS Conductor
Columbus, OH


Re: Cars for Sale

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> writes-



Tom, take good photos of the cars for Ebay. I'm convinced that a
great photo stirs up the bidders into a frenzy.
I would agree with that observation.

I recently purchased a locomotive for about 1/2 its probable value largely because the photos were so-o-o bad that unless you asked a thousand questions of the seller, and went cross-eyed trying to decipher the visual details, you really did not know what you might be purchasing. That the seller listed the locomotive under its Japanese maker/workshop rather than the better-known importer's brand name did not hurt, as well.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Thanks to all that replied about the doors to the SP A-50-14. The P2K doors are at least in the correct rib pattern...3/4/4/3 top down counting only non riveted panels.

There is some concern that the doors...and opening...are too wide on the P2K car. Has anyone checked an actual plan to determine this? For example, the diagram and ORER info for the similar UP A-50-17 shows, apparently, the door opening and not, necessarily, the door size.

Mike Brock


Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Denis F. Blake <dblake2996@...>
 

Guys

A quick explanation of valves on freight cars.

There is the control valve which controls the release of air from the reservoir(s). A brake reservoir is broken into two parts. The service side and the emergency side. The control valve controls which side is used.

There is a retainer valve which has setting on it that determines which "mode" of braking will be used on the car. The retainer valve retains the air and allows various levels of brake exhaust during normal application of brakes

Then there is the release rod which bleeds the air on the car that is being held in the main reservoir AFTER the car is put into emergency. Putting a car in emergency is what happens when an angle cock on a car is left open and the car is cut away from the remainder of the train. The emergency application of brakes will hold the car for a period of time until the air still in the car bleeds off. It is not acceptable to leave a car in emergency without having hand brakes applied as well. This is probably the one that Tim is talking about. It is a rod that extends from the side of the car, on both sides, that is connected to a valve.

The control valve is what modelers commonly call a triple valve. Control Valve is the proper name for this. Triple valve is a modelers term.

Denis Blake
NS Conductor
Columbus, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: cf5250
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: SP A-50-14 doors



Scott, do you mean the retainer valve, or the release valve?

Every car has a valve for dumping the air from the reservoir,
and there is a "release rod" reachable from either side of the
car. This is usually found in line with the AB valve on box
cars. Most modelers never bother with this even though it makes
a nice detail and is almost always visible from the side of the
car.

> can anyone say what that is below the side sill, just above the
builder's advertising sign in the builder's photo? I put the control
valve there, even though that's a strange place for it.
> Scott Pitzer


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Re: Item near side sill of SP A-50-14 (was: SP A-50-14 doors)

Scott Pitzer
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Scott, do you mean the retainer valve, or the release valve?

=====

I meant what I always USED to call the "triple valve," one of the "big 3" underbody brake components. It's bigger than the items you mentioned.
I also wondered if it could be some form of brake regulator. I've built a couple of Santa Fe cars with Royal F brake regulators, but they weren't close to the side sill.
Scott Pitzer


Re: Cars for sale.

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom, take good photos of the cars for Ebay. I'm convinced that a
great photo stirs up the bidders into a frenzy. I was watching an
auction last week of one of the brass SFRD models (unpainted) and
it went for just over $110... in spite of the fact that they are
beautiful 50 foot cars with Duryea underframes and no one will ever,
ever do them in plastic.

I have the following brass cars for sale:

1. OMI SFRD Rr-22 ,Texas Chief and Ship and Travel- $200.00
2. OMI SFRD Rr-37, Grand Canyon Line and Ship and Travel- $200.00
3. OMI SFRD Rr-42, Grand Canyon Line & Ship and Travel- $200.00
4. OMI SFRD Rr30, Super Chief & Map- $200.00
All of the above moderate to heavy weathering.
Thanks, Tom Chenoweth


Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott, do you mean the retainer valve, or the release valve?

Every car has a valve for dumping the air from the reservoir,
and there is a "release rod" reachable from either side of the
car. This is usually found in line with the AB valve on box
cars. Most modelers never bother with this even though it makes
a nice detail and is almost always visible from the side of the
car.

can anyone say what that is below the side sill, just above the
builder's advertising sign in the builder's photo? I put the control
valve there, even though that's a strange place for it.
Scott Pitzer


Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Scott Pitzer wrote:
And here we are again... can anyone say what that is below the side sill, just above the builder's advertising sign in the builder's photo? I put the control valve there, even though that's a strange place for it.
Studying the photo with lighting adjustments in Photoshop, I believe that it is indeed the control valve.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


I'm glad to be back and a few copies of something for sale

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

I'm glad to be back after losing my lap top(crashed) and switching
ISP's. I may have something of indirect but important interest to
freight car modelers.

I hope Mike doesn't mind me posting this, but I recently made copies
of some old New York Central reference books for friends and have
copies left. (T.T., copyright is not an issue here, as I have looked
into it. In fact, I can't really stop anyone from making copies from
my copies.)

If you are a New York Central modeler or your road interchanges with
the NYC, you might want to check these out. Among many other things
listed in the books are interchages by road and location, joint
stations, trackage rights, mileage posts, station call letters,
yards, car shops and engine facilities. I believe the Despatch Shops
are also included. See my description on ebay for more detail:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=484&item=2271338730&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

This is a fixed price auction, so you can buy anytime. The 1943
edition is the New York Central including the Peoria & Eastern,
Michigan Central, Boston & Albany and Big Four but does not include
the P&LE. It is 208 pages in length.

I also have a few of the 1929 edition available too but this edition
DOES NOT include the Michgian Central, Big Four, P&E, P&LE, or B&A.
It is noteworthy, however, in that this was published right before
the Depression when some lines were abandoned and a more than a few
interubans and shortlines subsequently vanished. There were also some
changes in structure on the NYC. It does include, however, the Ohio
Central Lines including the TOC and the Kanahwha roads. Some obsure
leased and subsidiary roads are included like the Louisville &
Jeffersonville Bridge & Railroad Company including yards, mileposts
and engine facilities! It is 133 pages in length. Both copies include
divison maps.

See the ebay listing and contact me off the list if you still want to
know what is included or not included or the price on the 1929
verison. However, in all fairness, don't ask me any research
quesitons, since I'm making a meager profit if at all. Again, contact
me off the list with any questions. I won't post anything anymore on
this topic.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: HOn3 tank car conversion to standard guage?

Earl Tuson
 

Most NG tanks were pretty small, 2500 or 3000 gallons, so not very
suitable as standard-gauge cars
It should not be overlooked that the Colorado narrow gauge lines converted a good number of 6000 gallon UTLX cars for narrow gauge service. Models of these cars are available in many scales (probably at least HOn3, Sn3, and On3,) and are a good source for parts to build standard gauge cars from. Building a UTLX X design car from one of these requires a new center sill.

Earl Tuson


Re: Cars for sale.

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Remember he said "unpainted".
--
Brian Ehni

From: <tchenoweth@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:52 EDT
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cars for sale.


Thanks,

I have a friend coming over tonight with a digital camera to take some
good shots for me. I put them on my flat bed and they show the sides and
weathering well, but they aren't good enough for Ebay. I missed seeing the
SFRDs
last week and didn't realize they were going so low.

Thanks, Tom


Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Scott Pitzer
 

I remember the same photo was published (larger) in the Trainline.
I THINK the seam panels fall at the same places as on the kit doors, except they aren't wide like the kit. Would a correct door mean a relocation of the door tracks? (I settled for the kit doors "as is.")
And here we are again... can anyone say what that is below the side sill, just above the builder's advertising sign in the builder's photo? I put the control valve there, even though that's a strange place for it.
Scott Pitzer
=======

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Sent: Sep 20, 2004 9:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] SP A-50-14 doors

OK...so I'm lazy. I'm getting around to building some P2K SP auto
cars...A-50-14. Actually, I was hoping that Tony would have his book out
first but I and others decided that it looked silly seeing few SP box and
auto cars going over Sherman Hill...wherever that is. Anyhow...I'm trying to
find a good photo of the doors. Anyone know of one published that is
discernible? The one in the Oct '95 RMJ is not good enough to really tell
the rib pattern. I would simply ask what the pattern is but about 4 yrs ago
when I tried to get this august group to agree to a standard for door
nomenclature, people seemed to reject the need. I still think we need one.

Mike Brock







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: UTLX X-3

Steve and Barb Hile
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:
Steve Hile responds about UTLX X-3 tank cars with:


"So with this build (car numbers 17000-17799) the tank
diameter of the 8000 gallon tank was virtually the same as typical
10000 gallon cars."

Huh? That one sailed right over my head. Why does this follow
from what you said earlier?

Mike Brock...confused [ not difficult these days ]

Sorry, Mike, I was trying to be brief. Here is some more information
from my Sunshine Naperville seminar last year.

In the 1922 CBC (and reprinted in the TSC (#12, I think)) are
drawings showing 10000 gallon and 6500 gallon X-3's. The 10K is the
one labeled as Canadian Car and Foundry and doesn't mention UTLX, but
is the X-3 design. The 6.5K design has 21'6" truck centers and a 76
inch tank ID. The 10K car is 87 inches ID and 28 feet truck centers.

In 1937, ACF built 6.5K and 8K cars to UTLX design and GA drawings
can be purchased from the NMT in St. Louis. The 8k cars were
numbered 17000 - 17799 and at least two examples remain in museums in
the midwest (IRM and North Freedom.) They were 85 inches ID on the
tanks and had 21'6" truck centers. The 6.5K cars also had 21'6"
truck centers but 76 inch tank ID. The 6.5K cars were numbered 7500 -
9499, examples of which also survive. Note the early and late 6.5K
gallon cars were virtually identical, except for the running
board/porch configuration.

The missing link is hard dimensional data on the longer, thinner 8000
gallon cars from the earlier period.

I hope that this is a bit clearer.

Steve Hile


Naperville

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Listers,
As a result of a sudden change in my work schedule I and a friend
won't be able to attend this meet this year.
I've already paid for my registration and have passed the refund date
posted by Sunshine. Is there anyone out there who is interested in
attending and not yet paid for their registration? Please contact me
offlist to see if we can swing a deal. I'd like to not be out of
pocket for this sum of money.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


Re: Rock Island 20000 series box cars

aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hile" <shile@m...> wrote:
The 20000 series of boxcars on the Rock Island encompasses many
different orders and builders over about a 20 year time span. Here
are the highlights
You did mean the whole 20000 series, right???

Steve Hile
My thanks to Steve Hile and Ed Hawkins for their responses. Ed's
advice reminded me that I believe I have pictures of the cars in
RPCs. And a review of my files uncovered an old article by Steve
Hile (I believe) on modifying an Athearn car for the 20000 express
car. I also found the handout on express boxcars from Mike Spoor
from the Sunshine meet a couple years ago.
I thank you for your help; and although I did not mean the whole
20000 series, I found it more helpful than you can imagine since I
have another project which now has answers.
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL


Re: DL&W rebuilt piggyback flat cars

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Tim and others:

I looked back as the Recordon article in September 2004 RMC specifically
for the mention of west coast traffic.

He mentions a 1957 Hoboken, NJ - San Francisco, CA move of printing
presses routed DLW, WAB, ATSF. A portion of the WAB move as through
Canada.

Another 1957 printing press move to Santa Ana, CA is mentioned also.
Routing was DLW, NKP, SSW, TNO, SP.

A 1959 move with open top equipment from Kenvil, NJ to Seattle is
mentioned. No routing is given, but it is mentioned that the trailer
was delivered to a job site with a UP tractor.

I get the impression that all of these moves are with DLW trailers on
DLW flat cars.

As Ben Hom said, these articles are very well done and I too recommend
them to anyone who wants to model this equipment or is interested in the
history of early piggy back transportation.

The third installment will cover how to model the DLW's fleet of
colorful trailers. I've already built one of the DLW resin trailers by
Bethlehem. These articles will allow me to better understand how the
Bethlehem resin flat car kit that I have fits into the grand scheme of
things.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Montford Switzer [mailto:ZOE@...]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W rebuilt piggyback flat cars

Tim O'Connor:

Oops, through I was answering Ben, but the message is the same. I'll do
a little digging next time I get to the basement. Gene D.'s post
mentions the printing equipment which is the info that I have. There
may be a few more details.

The Bethlehem trailer is a closed van.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timboconnor@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W rebuilt piggyback flat cars


Ben:

Don't forget that Bethlehem Car Works makes a resin kit for one series
of the DL&W's early pig flats as well as a resin trailer kit for that
road. As Recordon's article confirms the DL&W cars got around. Lots
of
sightings in the midwest and they even got to the West Coast. Most
were
still in service at the time of the E-L merger in 1960.

Mont Switzer
Really Mont? Can you cite a report of one of the DL&W cars on the
West Coast? I ignored this kit because I figured it would never have
been seen on the SP, so I'd like to know if I could have one show up
occasionally.






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Re: Cars for sale.

tchenoweth@...
 

Thanks,

I have a friend coming over tonight with a digital camera to take some
good shots for me. I put them on my flat bed and they show the sides and
weathering well, but they aren't good enough for Ebay. I missed seeing the SFRDs
last week and didn't realize they were going so low.

Thanks, Tom


Re: UTLX X-3

Bob Kutella
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:
Steve Hile responds about UTLX X-3 tank cars with:


"It certainly appears that in the early design the 8000 and 10000
gallon cars seem to have shared a common underframe while the 6500
gallon car was "shorter" (truck centers closer together.) So the tank
diameter for the 8000 gallon car was less than the 10000 gallon car."

Or come look at the real thing, take pics, measurements, answer questions.

UTLX 17222 is preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.

Bob Kutella


Cars for sale.

tchenoweth@...
 

I have the following brass cars for sale:

1. OMI SFRD Rr-22 ,Texas Chief and Ship and Travel- $200.00
2. OMI SFRD Rr-37, Grand Canyon Line and Ship and Travel- $200.00
3. OMI SFRD Rr-42, Grand Canyon Line & Ship and Travel- $200.00
4. OMI SFRD Rr30, Super Chief & Map- $200.00
All of the above moderate to heavy weathering.
5. Precision Scale F/P PFE 200009 50' wood Reefer, light weathering- $220
6 W&R Ga-50 Ballast car, moderate weathering- $220.00
7. Trains ATSF wood side car caboose, unpainted, moderate tarnishing- $75
8. Fugiyama ATSF round roof caboose- $100.00
9. PRB 48' x 48' Oil storage tank- $120.00
10. 2 ea Atlas ATSF SD-24 undec $75.00 ea.
Please respond to me personally at tchenoweth@.... I will not answer to
the group address. JPEGs sent on request and I will pay postage, but insurance
up to you. I will accept PayPal at the above address.

Any cars not reserved by Thursday morning will go onto Ebay.

Thanks, Tom Chenoweth

161201 - 161220 of 195529