Date   

I'm glad to be back and a few copies of something for sale

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

I'm glad to be back after losing my lap top(crashed) and switching
ISP's. I may have something of indirect but important interest to
freight car modelers.

I hope Mike doesn't mind me posting this, but I recently made copies
of some old New York Central reference books for friends and have
copies left. (T.T., copyright is not an issue here, as I have looked
into it. In fact, I can't really stop anyone from making copies from
my copies.)

If you are a New York Central modeler or your road interchanges with
the NYC, you might want to check these out. Among many other things
listed in the books are interchages by road and location, joint
stations, trackage rights, mileage posts, station call letters,
yards, car shops and engine facilities. I believe the Despatch Shops
are also included. See my description on ebay for more detail:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=484&item=2271338730&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

This is a fixed price auction, so you can buy anytime. The 1943
edition is the New York Central including the Peoria & Eastern,
Michigan Central, Boston & Albany and Big Four but does not include
the P&LE. It is 208 pages in length.

I also have a few of the 1929 edition available too but this edition
DOES NOT include the Michgian Central, Big Four, P&E, P&LE, or B&A.
It is noteworthy, however, in that this was published right before
the Depression when some lines were abandoned and a more than a few
interubans and shortlines subsequently vanished. There were also some
changes in structure on the NYC. It does include, however, the Ohio
Central Lines including the TOC and the Kanahwha roads. Some obsure
leased and subsidiary roads are included like the Louisville &
Jeffersonville Bridge & Railroad Company including yards, mileposts
and engine facilities! It is 133 pages in length. Both copies include
divison maps.

See the ebay listing and contact me off the list if you still want to
know what is included or not included or the price on the 1929
verison. However, in all fairness, don't ask me any research
quesitons, since I'm making a meager profit if at all. Again, contact
me off the list with any questions. I won't post anything anymore on
this topic.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: HOn3 tank car conversion to standard guage?

Earl Tuson
 

Most NG tanks were pretty small, 2500 or 3000 gallons, so not very
suitable as standard-gauge cars
It should not be overlooked that the Colorado narrow gauge lines converted a good number of 6000 gallon UTLX cars for narrow gauge service. Models of these cars are available in many scales (probably at least HOn3, Sn3, and On3,) and are a good source for parts to build standard gauge cars from. Building a UTLX X design car from one of these requires a new center sill.

Earl Tuson


Re: Cars for sale.

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Remember he said "unpainted".
--
Brian Ehni

From: <tchenoweth@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:52 EDT
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cars for sale.


Thanks,

I have a friend coming over tonight with a digital camera to take some
good shots for me. I put them on my flat bed and they show the sides and
weathering well, but they aren't good enough for Ebay. I missed seeing the
SFRDs
last week and didn't realize they were going so low.

Thanks, Tom


Re: SP A-50-14 doors

Scott Pitzer
 

I remember the same photo was published (larger) in the Trainline.
I THINK the seam panels fall at the same places as on the kit doors, except they aren't wide like the kit. Would a correct door mean a relocation of the door tracks? (I settled for the kit doors "as is.")
And here we are again... can anyone say what that is below the side sill, just above the builder's advertising sign in the builder's photo? I put the control valve there, even though that's a strange place for it.
Scott Pitzer
=======

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Sent: Sep 20, 2004 9:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] SP A-50-14 doors

OK...so I'm lazy. I'm getting around to building some P2K SP auto
cars...A-50-14. Actually, I was hoping that Tony would have his book out
first but I and others decided that it looked silly seeing few SP box and
auto cars going over Sherman Hill...wherever that is. Anyhow...I'm trying to
find a good photo of the doors. Anyone know of one published that is
discernible? The one in the Oct '95 RMJ is not good enough to really tell
the rib pattern. I would simply ask what the pattern is but about 4 yrs ago
when I tried to get this august group to agree to a standard for door
nomenclature, people seemed to reject the need. I still think we need one.

Mike Brock







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: UTLX X-3

Steve and Barb Hile
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:
Steve Hile responds about UTLX X-3 tank cars with:


"So with this build (car numbers 17000-17799) the tank
diameter of the 8000 gallon tank was virtually the same as typical
10000 gallon cars."

Huh? That one sailed right over my head. Why does this follow
from what you said earlier?

Mike Brock...confused [ not difficult these days ]

Sorry, Mike, I was trying to be brief. Here is some more information
from my Sunshine Naperville seminar last year.

In the 1922 CBC (and reprinted in the TSC (#12, I think)) are
drawings showing 10000 gallon and 6500 gallon X-3's. The 10K is the
one labeled as Canadian Car and Foundry and doesn't mention UTLX, but
is the X-3 design. The 6.5K design has 21'6" truck centers and a 76
inch tank ID. The 10K car is 87 inches ID and 28 feet truck centers.

In 1937, ACF built 6.5K and 8K cars to UTLX design and GA drawings
can be purchased from the NMT in St. Louis. The 8k cars were
numbered 17000 - 17799 and at least two examples remain in museums in
the midwest (IRM and North Freedom.) They were 85 inches ID on the
tanks and had 21'6" truck centers. The 6.5K cars also had 21'6"
truck centers but 76 inch tank ID. The 6.5K cars were numbered 7500 -
9499, examples of which also survive. Note the early and late 6.5K
gallon cars were virtually identical, except for the running
board/porch configuration.

The missing link is hard dimensional data on the longer, thinner 8000
gallon cars from the earlier period.

I hope that this is a bit clearer.

Steve Hile


Naperville

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Listers,
As a result of a sudden change in my work schedule I and a friend
won't be able to attend this meet this year.
I've already paid for my registration and have passed the refund date
posted by Sunshine. Is there anyone out there who is interested in
attending and not yet paid for their registration? Please contact me
offlist to see if we can swing a deal. I'd like to not be out of
pocket for this sum of money.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


Re: Rock Island 20000 series box cars

aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hile" <shile@m...> wrote:
The 20000 series of boxcars on the Rock Island encompasses many
different orders and builders over about a 20 year time span. Here
are the highlights
You did mean the whole 20000 series, right???

Steve Hile
My thanks to Steve Hile and Ed Hawkins for their responses. Ed's
advice reminded me that I believe I have pictures of the cars in
RPCs. And a review of my files uncovered an old article by Steve
Hile (I believe) on modifying an Athearn car for the 20000 express
car. I also found the handout on express boxcars from Mike Spoor
from the Sunshine meet a couple years ago.
I thank you for your help; and although I did not mean the whole
20000 series, I found it more helpful than you can imagine since I
have another project which now has answers.
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL


Re: DL&W rebuilt piggyback flat cars

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Tim and others:

I looked back as the Recordon article in September 2004 RMC specifically
for the mention of west coast traffic.

He mentions a 1957 Hoboken, NJ - San Francisco, CA move of printing
presses routed DLW, WAB, ATSF. A portion of the WAB move as through
Canada.

Another 1957 printing press move to Santa Ana, CA is mentioned also.
Routing was DLW, NKP, SSW, TNO, SP.

A 1959 move with open top equipment from Kenvil, NJ to Seattle is
mentioned. No routing is given, but it is mentioned that the trailer
was delivered to a job site with a UP tractor.

I get the impression that all of these moves are with DLW trailers on
DLW flat cars.

As Ben Hom said, these articles are very well done and I too recommend
them to anyone who wants to model this equipment or is interested in the
history of early piggy back transportation.

The third installment will cover how to model the DLW's fleet of
colorful trailers. I've already built one of the DLW resin trailers by
Bethlehem. These articles will allow me to better understand how the
Bethlehem resin flat car kit that I have fits into the grand scheme of
things.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Montford Switzer [mailto:ZOE@...]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W rebuilt piggyback flat cars

Tim O'Connor:

Oops, through I was answering Ben, but the message is the same. I'll do
a little digging next time I get to the basement. Gene D.'s post
mentions the printing equipment which is the info that I have. There
may be a few more details.

The Bethlehem trailer is a closed van.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timboconnor@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W rebuilt piggyback flat cars


Ben:

Don't forget that Bethlehem Car Works makes a resin kit for one series
of the DL&W's early pig flats as well as a resin trailer kit for that
road. As Recordon's article confirms the DL&W cars got around. Lots
of
sightings in the midwest and they even got to the West Coast. Most
were
still in service at the time of the E-L merger in 1960.

Mont Switzer
Really Mont? Can you cite a report of one of the DL&W cars on the
West Coast? I ignored this kit because I figured it would never have
been seen on the SP, so I'd like to know if I could have one show up
occasionally.






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Re: Cars for sale.

tchenoweth@...
 

Thanks,

I have a friend coming over tonight with a digital camera to take some
good shots for me. I put them on my flat bed and they show the sides and
weathering well, but they aren't good enough for Ebay. I missed seeing the SFRDs
last week and didn't realize they were going so low.

Thanks, Tom


Re: UTLX X-3

Bob Kutella
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:
Steve Hile responds about UTLX X-3 tank cars with:


"It certainly appears that in the early design the 8000 and 10000
gallon cars seem to have shared a common underframe while the 6500
gallon car was "shorter" (truck centers closer together.) So the tank
diameter for the 8000 gallon car was less than the 10000 gallon car."

Or come look at the real thing, take pics, measurements, answer questions.

UTLX 17222 is preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.

Bob Kutella


Cars for sale.

tchenoweth@...
 

I have the following brass cars for sale:

1. OMI SFRD Rr-22 ,Texas Chief and Ship and Travel- $200.00
2. OMI SFRD Rr-37, Grand Canyon Line and Ship and Travel- $200.00
3. OMI SFRD Rr-42, Grand Canyon Line & Ship and Travel- $200.00
4. OMI SFRD Rr30, Super Chief & Map- $200.00
All of the above moderate to heavy weathering.
5. Precision Scale F/P PFE 200009 50' wood Reefer, light weathering- $220
6 W&R Ga-50 Ballast car, moderate weathering- $220.00
7. Trains ATSF wood side car caboose, unpainted, moderate tarnishing- $75
8. Fugiyama ATSF round roof caboose- $100.00
9. PRB 48' x 48' Oil storage tank- $120.00
10. 2 ea Atlas ATSF SD-24 undec $75.00 ea.
Please respond to me personally at tchenoweth@.... I will not answer to
the group address. JPEGs sent on request and I will pay postage, but insurance
up to you. I will accept PayPal at the above address.

Any cars not reserved by Thursday morning will go onto Ebay.

Thanks, Tom Chenoweth


Re: Re.-Re. NOT&M '32 ARA Boxcar details

Ed Hawkins
 

On Monday, September 20, 2004, at 08:33 PM, jbjmskeels wrote:

One other thing I noticed about all the MP and subsidiary cars is
that they dont appear to have polling pockets.. Is this true or is
it the angle of the photos that I'm looking at?
Jeff,
None of the MP 1932 ARA cars came with push pole pockets.
Ed Hawkins


SP A-50-14 doors

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

OK...so I'm lazy. I'm getting around to building some P2K SP auto cars...A-50-14. Actually, I was hoping that Tony would have his book out first but I and others decided that it looked silly seeing few SP box and auto cars going over Sherman Hill...wherever that is. Anyhow...I'm trying to find a good photo of the doors. Anyone know of one published that is discernible? The one in the Oct '95 RMJ is not good enough to really tell the rib pattern. I would simply ask what the pattern is but about 4 yrs ago when I tried to get this august group to agree to a standard for door nomenclature, people seemed to reject the need. I still think we need one.

Mike Brock


Re: UTLX X-3

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Steve Hile responds about UTLX X-3 tank cars with:


"It certainly appears that in the early design the 8000 and 10000 gallon cars seem to have shared a common underframe while the 6500 gallon car was "shorter" (truck centers closer together.) So the tank diameter for the 8000 gallon car was less than the 10000 gallon car."
OK...I follow that. The 8K and 10K cars used the same frame but had different sized tanks. Makes sense.


"In later incarnations (i.e. the 1937 build by ACF, which included both 6500 and 8000 gallon cars) the truck centers were identical and the tank diameters varied."


OK. I got that...I think. Same as above except now we're talking about 6500 and 8K cars.

"So with this build (car numbers 17000-17799) the tank diameter of the 8000 gallon tank was virtually the same as typical 10000 gallon cars."

Huh? That one sailed right over my head. Why does this follow from what you said earlier?

Mike Brock...confused [ not difficult these days ]


Re: UTLX X-3

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Yes, thanks Steve. Much appreciated.

Uhh, different question, I think you'll know this one too: Were pre WWII RI
boxcars about the same paint color as post war?

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hile [mailto:shile@...]

I hope this helps.

Steve Hile


Re.-Re. NOT&M '32 ARA Boxcar details

jbjmskeels <jbjmskeels@...>
 

<Jeff,
<The MP diagram for the cars states NOT&M had Universal XL hand
<brakes
<(sorry, this probably isn't the answer you wanted to hear).

Ed,
Thanks for the reply. I'd guess that since these cars were built
in '36-'37, that they had the M1704 handwheel on the type 5700 XL
hand brake. Yep, you're right, I would would rather they'ed used an
Ajax or something else that is available in model form.
Intermountain anounced an etched metal XL wheel back in January, but
since they were for an upcomming project, (FGEX/WFEX reefers?) they
aren't yet available at present. I can probably cobble up a
reasonable brake housing, and use a Kadee wheel as a stand in. Or,
do an MP car with an Ajax or whatever.
One other thing I noticed about all the MP and subsidiary cars is
that they dont appear to have polling pockets.. Is this true or is
it the angle of the photos that I'm looking at?

Jeff Skeels


Re: Rock Island 20000 series box cars

Steve and Barb Hile
 

The 20000 series of boxcars on the Rock Island encompasses many different orders and builders over about a 20 year time span. Here are the highlights

20000-20039 Express Box Pullman Green built 1941 by Pressed Steel Car - IMRC model are mentioned by Ed is most appropriate but I don't think has ever been done as a RI express car. Bob Hundman did an article years ago and got the numbers, paint schemes, etc. kind of mixed up. Only a handful of 25xxx boxcars received the Rocket Freight paint scheme (PS-1's see below.) Bev-Bel and Kar Line have done these in days gone by. I thought I saw these from Athearn recently, perhaps with the Allied Full Cushion trucks that were original

20040-20049 More of the same (probably reassigned from freight car boxes built in large quantities at the same time.

20060-20069 Aluminum Express boxcars built by Mt. Vernon in 1945. The prototype for painting for Varney, Globe, Mantua and who know who else. A nice Sunshine kit now exists.

20070-20084 PS-1 boxcars built for freight service in 1948 and reequipped for express service in 1953.

21000-22999 PS-1 freight boxcars built in 1951 with the Centennial logo.

23000-23999 ACF welded side boxcars built 1952 "dart-not" ends also with Centennial logo

24000-24999 same ACF built 1950 Route of the Rockets paint

25000-25499 post-war, pre PS-1 12 panel riveted side built 1946 by PS, Improved Dreadnaught ends, Diagonal Panel roof (I think).

25500-26499 early PS-1 built 1948

26500-26899 ACF built 1959 similar specs, IDE, Diag. Panel Roof,

26900-27199 PS-1 built in 1960, first one with 8 foot doors all others had 6 footers with a variety of suppliers

27200-27349 Similar cars from ACF also 1960

More 40 foot boxcars from 27350 to 29389 were added from Pullman Standard in 1963 and 65, but beyond the scope of this list.

You did mean the whole 20000 series, right???

Steve Hile

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rock Island 20000 series box cars



On Monday, September 20, 2004, at 12:37 PM, aaejj2j wrote:

> I am looking for a RI 20000 series box car in HO. I have seen a
> picture in a friend's RI book but do not remember details other than
> it is 10-6 interior height and built in '41 or '42. I believe Bev-
> Bel and Kar Line made decorated versions of this using the Athearn
> body; and Sunshine made a resin kit a number of years ago.
> I am wondering if one of the newer plastic bodies could be used. I
> do not know the end configuration.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Tyrone Johnsen
>
Tyrone,
I believe your best bet is the InterMountain 10-6 IH box car. It has
5/5 Dreadnaught ends and a Murphy panel roof. The underframe isn't
terrific and you'll need to verify the types of doors for the specific
car you want. Some of these cars were repainted in the spiffy "Ship
Rocket Freight" scheme. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


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Re: UTLX X-3

Steve and Barb Hile
 

The answer is that it depends. The MM drawing is not perfect, but pretty close. The X-3 design did evolve over time and much of the details of how and why seem to have faded into the mist. It certainly appears that in the early design the 8000 and 10000 gallon cars seem to have shared a common underframe while the 6500 gallon car was "shorter" (truck centers closer together.) So the tank diameter for the 8000 gallon car was less than the 10000 gallon car.

In later incarnations (i.e. the 1937 build by ACF, which included both 6500 and 8000 gallon cars) the truck centers were identical and the tank diameters varied. So with this build (car numbers 17000-17799) the tank diameter of the 8000 gallon tank was virtually the same as typical 10000 gallon cars.

Hence the Sunshine kits have two basic truck center arrangements and 4 different tanks - 6500, long 8000, squat 8000 and 10000 gallons. Note also that the later incarnations did not have the full wood porches that the earlier cars had. There are some photos of a 17xxx car on the Steam Era Freight Cars website.

I hope this helps.

Steve Hile

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Nelson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:20 AM
Subject: [STMFC] UTLX X-3



I'm looking at a drawing of a UTLX 10k tank car as drawn in the 3/85 issue
of Mainline Moderler. I assume it's probably close enough to being correct
to be useful (correct?).... Anyway, my question to the list is this: what
happens to the X-3 design when the tank is smaller, say 8k for instance?
Does the underframe get shorter or is it simply a smaller radius tank? Same
question for 6k tank.

Thanks,

Dave Nelson



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Re: HOn3 tank car conversion to standard guage?

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

I have kitbashed a 4000 gal tank car from an AHM old time model. See
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/millera/ebax3064main.html

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 1:20 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] HOn3 tank car conversion to standard guage?

IIRC, this car was once offered in a free-lanced standard gauge
version.
It probably used the same tank on a wider flat car body. It would be
very easy to scratch build a wider flat car, but then what would you
have?
Most NG tanks were pretty small, 2500 or 3000 gallons, so not very
suitable as standard-gauge cars (in fact that's one reason the whole NG
movement failed: low capacity per car). Yes, there were and are some SG cars
with quite small tanks, but they look nothing like the old NG tanks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



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Re: Rock Island 20000 series box cars

Paul Lyons
 

In a message dated 9/20/2004 7:35:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shile@... writes:
20060-20069 Aluminum Express boxcars built by Mt. Vernon in 1945. The
prototype for painting for Varney, Globe, Mantua and who know who else. A nice
Sunshine kit now exists.
Steve, You are correct about the Sunshine kit, except I think you will find
the doors are all wrong. Martin apparently reached back in the "parts bin" for
an old mold instead of making a new door pattern. The door is different than
anything I think I have ever seen. It is a 4/4/4/4 Youngstown door if if I
count the corrugations correct. Anyway, my kit is on hold mid-stream till I can
find one or made one. As we started this tread, to nice a kit to build with the
wrong doors.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

160301 - 160320 of 194620