Date   

Re: STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

-Bill,

I think this is a fine idea, but we may need to engage in a little
File area clean up before it will be possible to post pictures.

I know I had to cut down the size of the train images I tried to
upload last week since I was told the first try exceeded the
alloted file space for the group.

I think it would be helpful if we all cleared up some old photos
and files.

Marty


Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC

Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

Armand,

I think (I need to check this first) that the grain-hatch equipped
40000 cars are just a little late for me.

I do have several 40000 cars, two of them in dedicated LCL
service on the wayfreight -- usually coupled behind the engine or
in front of the van.

These are Steam Shack (F&C) kits that have had the problems
with the ends fixed and the molded in grain lessened.

Marty


Re: Keystone Modeler

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith told us:
Apparently the web site provider had a major brain fart and deleted the
entire PRRT&HS site while "decomissioning some equipment" last Saturday.
From the description it seems as if there may have been no ongoing backup
of the site by the provider. The PRRT&HS web master and Al Buchan, the
PRRT&HS pres are busy reconstructing it.
Many ISPs do not provide backup, and it is often up to the content provider to do so. I certainly hope PRR T&HS does so, or the "reconstructing" can be a nightmare.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

Tim O'Connor
 

Apparently anthracite was sold as far south as Washington, DC
if photos in the wales collection are any indication.
Anthracite from Pennsylvania was sold all over the country,
and exported to other countries as well. It was the fuel of
choice for home heating. Quite a lot of it was shipped in
box cars.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the
eastern end of the Erie.
Considering that the B&O served New York City (via car floats)
along with PRR, LV, Erie, Reading, and CNJ, I'd be amazed if there
weren't photos showing B&O hoppers in that area.


B&O hoppers near NY City

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:
Anthracite from Pennsylvania was sold all over the country,and
exported to other countries as well. It was the fuel of
choice for home heating. Quite a lot of it was shipped in
box cars.

I think there was a cost premium for anthracite which got more
expesive farther from the source. Besides metalurgical coal I wonder
how far anthracite dealers went from eastern PA.

I remember reading that anthracite coal companioes sponcered radio
programs. I wonder if those were national broadcasts?

Tim also wrote "Considering that the B&O served New York City (via
car floats)along with PRR, LV, Erie, Reading, and CNJ, I'd be amazed
if there weren't photos showing B&O hoppers in that area."

Erie around New York City was a poor choice of words. I should have
said eastern end of Erie or New York district. This would have
included Erie in New Jersey and up to Port Jervis or Binghamton. As
mentioned soft coal was mined near near the New York Pennsylvania
border south of Buffalo.

Ed


Re: STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Charles Hladik
 

Heck everybody knows you can only put 10 fattened or even non fat cattle in a
40 foot car.
Anything less or more would be more feet.
Chuck Hladik


Re: National Type B trucks

wm7595@...
 

Are there any survivng cars (in museums or otherwise) with this type
of truck? As a relatively attentive observer - I don't think I have
ever seen a truck of this design
I took several pics last July of a Pennsy G29 gondola in captive service at Standard Steel in Lewistown PA. This particular car has the 70t National B3(I think) but they look identical. I posted the picks in a file in the Steam Era Freight Cars Photo group, look in the foler titled Surviving PRR Gondolas.
Roger Cox


Re: Keystone Modeler

smithbf@...
 

What's up with access to the site? I keep getting a "Page cannot be
displayed" for the past week or so. I didn't try to get the latest
issue when new as my cable service was down with all the storms and only
had dial up. Now that my cable service is back, I can't get the site.

Jerry Glow
Jerry, et al.

Apparently the web site provider had a major brain fart and deleted the
entire PRRT&HS site while "decomissioning some equipment" last Saturday.
From the description it seems as if there may have been no ongoing backup
of the site by the provider. The PRRT&HS web master and Al Buchan, the
PRRT&HS pres are busy reconstructing it. I have copies of all of the TKMs
released to date in pdf if you need one.

The PRRT&HS e-store and discussion forums can still be accessed directly.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


Keystone Modeler

jerryglow2
 

What's up with access to the site? I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" for the past week or so. I didn't try to get the latest issue when new as my cable service was down with all the storms and only had dial up. Now that my cable service is back, I can't get the site.

Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/layout/Preview.htm


STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

Since my John Deere post was not the discussion inspiring post it could have
been, I'll pitch this one out.

The amount of information exchanged on a weekly basis in staggering to me. I
still can't get over the fact that more then one of you know how many
fattened cattle fit in a SPECIFIC stock car. That is just one of the many
obscure facts that have come and gone on this list. But what are you doing
with all this information? I know that many of you are avid and very skilled
modelers. However, I can't remember the last time I saw an "I just finished"
or "I am working on a _________" posting.

SO, I propose that once a week (Mike or Ben, pick a day please) should be
STMFC Show & Tell day. Make an official group declaration! I know that
making photo links is not possible for everyone. Photos would help, but if
not, throw out 3 sentences of what you are working on. This came up on the S
Scale list a week ago. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale via "What is on
your workbench?" It was nice to see what others were doing.

That is the great thing about PRR-Pro. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro
It makes you work on a project and talk about it.

This is also as a result of the upcoming Prototype Modelers meetings. You
are happy with your own work until you go to one of them. THEN you get to
see what others have done. Since there is no contest (at least at the meet I
was at in the spring) it would not matter to get an early peek of your
Naperville model. Besides, not everyone will be able to attend. Share your
good work with the rest of us!

I have recently finished a brass H32. Photos and a brief description will be
along soon.


Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

ed_mines
 

There's a photo of a NH USRA hopper behind an Erie steam locomotive
in one of the soft cover Erie steam books from the '70s (I think
it's a Carlton book).

I think the photo was taken near Maybrook, the NH Erie connection
across the Hudson river from Poughkeepsie, NY. AS the crow flies
Maybrook is closer to the anthracite fields by a direct Erie route,
compared to shipping anthracite to the New York City area, moving it
by barge to a NH connection and sending back west to Maybrook in NH
hoppers.

I've noticed more WM hoppers than one would expect in various Erie
steam photos. A John Long (Erie corporate photographer) photo of an
Erie steam train near Binghamton containing 2 WM hoppers (one
fishbelly, one channel side) immediately comes to mind. Maybe they
were loaded with bituminous coal going north and reloaded with
anthracite going south. Apparently anthracite was sold as far south
as Washington, DC if photos in the wales collection are any
indication.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the eastern
end of the Erie.

The presence of foreign road hoppers containing bituminous coal was
very location dependent on the Erie which had both bituminous coal
and anthracite mines on line. THe bituminous mines were on the
Bradford branch which is approximately south of Rochester, NY on the
NY/PA state line.

I can remember more than one photo of an all hopper train on the
Erie containing PRR, NYC and a few N&W hoppers. I assume these
contained bituminous coal.

Ed


Re: color of Erie/URTX reefer

BlackDiamondRR@...
 

Hi,
I'm getting ready to paint an Erie/URTX steel reefer using a Pacific
Rail Shops S scale 40' (PFE R-40-23) with an added on horizontal riveted seam.
The only photos I have of the prototype are in the ERIE/DL&W color guide and
the color appears to be an orange/yellow. Tough to describe...its not reefer
yellow, nor is it reefer orange (if there actually are such colors) but kind of
a mix.
The discussions on this list about using color renditions form
photographs has gotten me wondering what the actual Erie/URTX steel reefer color
should be? Would appreciate any help on this. BTW, one of the photos has a 40'
Erie boxcar next to it in what appears to be true color rendering of freight car
red as used by the Erie. Both cars have "yellow" placards on them as a
promotional "ship Erie" public display. The freight car red and yellow look "right"
so is the reefer color "right" also?

Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Freight Car addicts breakfast near Timonium Train Show

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote:
There will be a 12-Step breakfast at the IHOP near the Timonium
Fairgrounds Saturday, October 9 at approximately 8 AM to discuss our
addiction to buying freight car photos, kits of freight cars, and
building freight car models.

I'll be there. See you next Saturday.


Ben Hom


Re: National Type B trucks

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Are there any survivng cars (in museums or otherwise) with this type
of truck? As a relatively attentive observer - I don't think I have
ever seen a truck of this design.

I think Portola has a WP 53' gon with National B-1s under it.


Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC

armprem
 

Marty,I hope you have included some CV hopper bottom box cars in
dedicated grain service, or others of the 40000 series in captive service on
your roster.The top loading hatches make some of the cars in that series
rather distinctive.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty McGuirk" <mac@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC


Both are correct.

And one of the cars looks to me like a LV car as well.

Marty

On Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 03:33 PM, pieter_roos wrote:

I agree, that car looks to me like a CPR "minibox" with "Spans the
World" herald. The boxcar directly behind the locomotive might have
M&StL "The Peoria Gateway" lettering.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:
FWIW, the 3rd car in the train seems to be Canadian Pacific (is it a
compass or something in the slogan on the right side? I don't have my
CDS catalog handy.)
The 6th car has that Reading look, to me anyway.
Scott Pitzer

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Re: Consumer Prototype Protection

Gene Green <lgreen@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@c...> wrote:
<snip> "BLI is advertising their stockcar as a PRR K7a ..."

If there was that much information - what the prototype for the model
was - about more cars it would surely be a big help to me. As to the
relative amount and quality of the detail, each can and will make his
or her own judgement.

I only want the PRR version of the BLI stock car but I hope they sell
a million of each paint scheme.

Gene Green


Re: Metal running boards on NYC

Jeff English
 

NYC 72000 series would be Lot 850-B, 800 cars built in 1954 through
1955. I only have one confirmed BLT date of 6-54. These were fifty-
foot, single-door cars built by Despatch Shops with DS ends and roof.

I have no information on running boards, but with a 1954 build date,
I would be surprised if they were not galvanized and I would think
they would therefore not have been painted.

Jeff English
Troy, New York

--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:
Let me rephrase the question. WOULD the running board be painted
black like the roof, OR be unpainted (possibly with overspray here
and there?)
I speculated on the reduction in contrast because my model would
not be a "new car." (In fact it would be a few years out of our
era.)
Scott Pitzer


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Coleman <Bbear746@a...>
Sent: Sep 30, 2004 4:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Metal running boards on NYC

--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:
Would a 1954 NYC box car with black ends and roof (72000 series)
have an unpainted metal running board? If so, I suppose the
contrast
with the roof would become less noticeable as years passed...

Scott Pitzer
Scott, I would think if the running board was unpainted it was
galvanized. It would have darkened some over the years reducing
the
contrast a little.
Jeff Coleman





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Re: Consumer Prototype Protection

Charlie Vlk
 

If the information on the box label was limited to the data printed on the
car I don't see any major problems.
If the manufacturer is expected to hold out that particular paint job
existed for a specific period of time and that the carbody and all its
features are accurate (to somebody's standard) I don't think that is going
to happen....
First, the manufacturer has little need to do in-depth usage documentation
research (being more concerned with the L&P ...I am talking about releasing
paint jobs on existing tooling, not tooling a new car where the emphasis is
on the mechanical aspects of the prototype) and second is not going to
limit the sales of their product to a few dead accurate paint jobs because
others were on carbodies with different sidesills or door styles.
Of course some of this depends on the size of the manufacturer, their
production profile and capabilities as far as tooling, size of runs, and a
host of other factors.
BLI is advertising their stockcar as a PRR K7a which is what was used to do
the tooling. By inference the NYC and other paint jobs are on a PRR car.
Now I took pains to spec that the factory apply boards in the locations
necessary so that each road's car is as close to their prototype as I could
make it....down to creating custom fonts for all the stencil lettering on
each..... I find it hard to believe that the people on this list need any
further warning label on the box....
I agree with Craig's idea that manufacturers should cultivate a network of
assistance from RR Historical Societies and
individuals who have information and are willing to help. I am grateful to
those who have assisted me in my work at JMC/ConCor,
Kato, and now as Railroad Model Resources / Broadway Limited. But from the
manufacturers viewpoint it is not always a smooth
road. We have business pressures and deadlines to work on projects and
often you get promises and hints of information but it
doesn't come forth.....or the "expert" sends you a bad xerox of a MR
article. We've had this discussion before.
Competition is another subject altogether..... there is some cooperationn (I
don't believe that it is good form to find out what someone
else is working on and try to beat them to the market with a competing
model) but some head-to-head competition is going to be
inevitable in an environment where many of the logical prototype selections
(the ones you can get reasonably large variety of roadnames
and paint schemes off of) are already tooled decently. Some improved models
will take business from lesser models and sometimes
there will be a need to duplicate to round out a range of products offered..
(BLI doing F7s is an example of this). Many of the manufacturers R&D guys
do talk to each other and respect each other's work..... but there are some
mavericks out there who don't play well with others.
The Model Railroad Industry, at least in North America, works best when each
company finds a niche that they are best at and contributes product to the
Hobby that works with others..... LifeLike, for example, has made tons of
passenger diesels but not one Pullman or Coach to go with them...
if it weren't for Walthers, ConCor, Athearn and now Branchline they probably
wouldn't have sold so many DL109s, PAs, E6,7, 8&9s, and Erie-Builts if they
didn't have "competitors".
Charlie Vlk


Re: Coal into New England

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Oct 1, 2004, at 12:38 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Armand Premo wrote:
Still a mystery, at least to me, were the number of Berwind cars
that were interchanged with the CV at Alburgh. They were generally
returned as empties in approximately three days later.

One possible clue is that Berwind hoppers were private-owner cars. 
They wouldn't be handled the same as railroad-owned cars, as normal
car service rules wouldn't apply to them.
To expand on what Ben said, I think that as a private owner, Berwind
was actually shipping coal via its own cars directly to customers. My
dad remembers seeing Berwind cars in the New Haven area in the late
1940s and early 1950s. I wonder if there was a significantly higher
preponderance of the Berwind-PRR cars seen in NE over the Berwind-C&O
cars?

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: LCL freight

Mike Aufderheide <maufderheideyfp@...>
 

I'm torn over whether the outbound cars are directed by spot
(ie, track 3 spot 1 *always* goes to Chicago
Dennis,

I don't know if you were looking for prototype examples or not, but this is the way it worked at
the Monon Freight house next to Dearborn Station in Chicago. There were four tracks there with
eight spots each. Incoming LCL freight was routed to the correct car with chalkmarks using the
shorthand 2-6, 3-1 etc. for the (track #)-(spot #). All of the cars were 40 feet long to
facilitate the use of bridge plates between tracks 1-2 and 3-4. Daily cars went from here to
Knoxville, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Louisville, Indianapolis, Bloomington, Lafayette, Monon,
Bedford. In addition cars were loaded for specific locals (Lafayette to Bloomington for example).
12-15 cars were loaded each evening and taken down by a special midnight transfer run to South
Hammond yard for inclusion in the appropriate freight.

Regards,

Mike



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