Date   

Re: Coal into New England

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

I have a slightly different angle on Marty's New England coal
discussion. I am more familiar with the New Haven. The NH received
lots of anthracite in foreign road hoppers via the gateway at Maybrook.
Reading, LV and LNE hoppers were commonplace with D&H and some Erie
sprinkled in as well. PRR hoppers were numerous (H21 types, as Marty
has seen), as one would expect. I have also seen lots of NYC hoppers
in photos, particularly the USRA 70-ton types. Hoppers from the B&O,
N&W and WM were rare, but not unheard of. Like Marty, I cannot recall
ever seeing a C&O car in photos. Regarding the NH's fleet of USRA
hoppers, it is interesting to me, that while they served the coal
industry at online points of transloading from barge, they also are
frequent "guests" in photos from the Harrisburg area. I wonder if this
is because they were sent for loading for NH company service or because
they were captured by the Pennsy.

================================================




While you ponder the appearance of those cars in New England, I've pondered
the appearance of New Haven and Lehigh Valley hoppers on the Western
Maryland Railway in the northern West Virginia coal fields. I've discussed
this a few times with Max Robin (who is probably lurking here somewhere...).
Strings of New Haven hopper cars were being loaded at a mine on the Coal &
Iron line south of Elkins for about a decade. Lehigh Valley cars show up in
photos taken around Belington, W. Va. Possibly there was a special contract
to a user on these railroads, or possibly company coal.

In another instance, cars from the Rainey Wood Coke Company and the Alan
Wood Steel Company were frequent visitors to WM rails. I suspect there was a
metallurgical attraction to the coal from certain mines along the WM.

It can add up to a varied coal train consist, depending on the era.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


C&O USRA 2 bay hoppers

Curt Fortenberry <arrphoto@...>
 

According to the C&O Hoppers and Gons book, vol 1, C&O rebuilt lots of
their USRA 2 bay hoppers (number series 62000) (ala the Tichy kit,
accurail, etc) during WWII. But it really doesn't discuss what all
was done other than some heap shields. In the photo (about 1946) of
one car, it appears to have AB brakes, and another poor photo implies
wine door locks. Does anyone have any other information about these
cars? Did they get the AB brakes during the rebuilding, or perhaps
earlier shoppings?

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Coal into New England

raildata@...
 

I think it all boiled down to price when it came to anthracite sizes being
mixed. For home heating, the larger the size the more it cost. My folks always
ordered a mix of sizes. Think the larger stuff kept the finer pieces from
falling through the grates.

Been studying the anthracite industry for years. A really great source of
info to help get some idea of coal movements is to study the carloads received
from other lines. For most easter roads this is broken down into anthracite and
bituminous. Usually the number of cars laoded on line is given.

I agree that very few C&O cars were seen in the northeast, or at least that I
can recall. On the D&H moving north out of Wilkes-Barre and bound for Canada
and New England there was a very large volume of bituminous coal along with
the anthracite. For all intents, The D&H was an extension of the PRR to New
England and Canada.
Do remember seeing N&W cars. Even recall seeing some of those Seely type SOU
composites with outside chains holding the bottom doors; also northbound on
the D&H. Almost all the loco coal used on the DL&W and D&H arrived in PRR
hoppers since these "anthracite" roads burned very little anthracite after about
WW1.

During steam years roughly 25% of all coal produced was used by the railroads
so much of what was moving to New England was loco fuel. So a model railroad
with coaling facilities should have some logic as to where that coal
orginated.

Railroads could never compete where a water route was available. One of the
most amazing examples of this was where the PRR at Sodus Point NY loaded
bituminous coal into lake boats to transport it to a power plant at Oswego...a
distance of only 40 miles!

All very interesting...and not a lot of documentation available!

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


.


Re: NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

Pete Brown &#92;(YahooGroups&#92;) <YahooLists@...>
 

The WM was an active participant in the alphabet route, which might explain
some of its rolling stock being found up in NY during the diesel era.



The alphabet route included: WM, P&WV, Reading, CNJ, NYC&STL, W&LE, L&HR,
NYNH&H and B&M. It did not include the Erie or B&O, however, and was even
considered competitors of those railroads, IIRC.



I know WM had customers in odd places that specifically wanted its coal for
various uses. Most of the WM coal went to Baltimore and out on ships,
however.



The WM coal operations, specifically those in the Chaffee branch in WV, can
make for some really interesting modeling. Shay #6, the largest as-built
Shay ever, was the ruler of those 10% grades up to the coal mines.



Pete



_____________________________________________________
Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
(wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)



_____

From: ed_mines [mailto:ed_mines@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 5:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie



There's a photo of a NH USRA hopper behind an Erie steam locomotive
in one of the soft cover Erie steam books from the '70s (I think
it's a Carlton book).

I think the photo was taken near Maybrook, the NH Erie connection
across the Hudson river from Poughkeepsie, NY. AS the crow flies
Maybrook is closer to the anthracite fields by a direct Erie route,
compared to shipping anthracite to the New York City area, moving it
by barge to a NH connection and sending back west to Maybrook in NH
hoppers.

I've noticed more WM hoppers than one would expect in various Erie
steam photos. A John Long (Erie corporate photographer) photo of an
Erie steam train near Binghamton containing 2 WM hoppers (one
fishbelly, one channel side) immediately comes to mind. Maybe they
were loaded with bituminous coal going north and reloaded with
anthracite going south. Apparently anthracite was sold as far south
as Washington, DC if photos in the wales collection are any
indication.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the eastern
end of the Erie.

The presence of foreign road hoppers containing bituminous coal was
very location dependent on the Erie which had both bituminous coal
and anthracite mines on line. THe bituminous mines were on the
Bradford branch which is approximately south of Rochester, NY on the
NY/PA state line.

I can remember more than one photo of an all hopper train on the
Erie containing PRR, NYC and a few N&W hoppers. I assume these
contained bituminous coal.

Ed


Re: STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

-Bill,

I think this is a fine idea, but we may need to engage in a little
File area clean up before it will be possible to post pictures.

I know I had to cut down the size of the train images I tried to
upload last week since I was told the first try exceeded the
alloted file space for the group.

I think it would be helpful if we all cleared up some old photos
and files.

Marty


Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC

Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

Armand,

I think (I need to check this first) that the grain-hatch equipped
40000 cars are just a little late for me.

I do have several 40000 cars, two of them in dedicated LCL
service on the wayfreight -- usually coupled behind the engine or
in front of the van.

These are Steam Shack (F&C) kits that have had the problems
with the ends fixed and the molded in grain lessened.

Marty


Re: Keystone Modeler

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith told us:
Apparently the web site provider had a major brain fart and deleted the
entire PRRT&HS site while "decomissioning some equipment" last Saturday.
From the description it seems as if there may have been no ongoing backup
of the site by the provider. The PRRT&HS web master and Al Buchan, the
PRRT&HS pres are busy reconstructing it.
Many ISPs do not provide backup, and it is often up to the content provider to do so. I certainly hope PRR T&HS does so, or the "reconstructing" can be a nightmare.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

Tim O'Connor
 

Apparently anthracite was sold as far south as Washington, DC
if photos in the wales collection are any indication.
Anthracite from Pennsylvania was sold all over the country,
and exported to other countries as well. It was the fuel of
choice for home heating. Quite a lot of it was shipped in
box cars.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the
eastern end of the Erie.
Considering that the B&O served New York City (via car floats)
along with PRR, LV, Erie, Reading, and CNJ, I'd be amazed if there
weren't photos showing B&O hoppers in that area.


B&O hoppers near NY City

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:
Anthracite from Pennsylvania was sold all over the country,and
exported to other countries as well. It was the fuel of
choice for home heating. Quite a lot of it was shipped in
box cars.

I think there was a cost premium for anthracite which got more
expesive farther from the source. Besides metalurgical coal I wonder
how far anthracite dealers went from eastern PA.

I remember reading that anthracite coal companioes sponcered radio
programs. I wonder if those were national broadcasts?

Tim also wrote "Considering that the B&O served New York City (via
car floats)along with PRR, LV, Erie, Reading, and CNJ, I'd be amazed
if there weren't photos showing B&O hoppers in that area."

Erie around New York City was a poor choice of words. I should have
said eastern end of Erie or New York district. This would have
included Erie in New Jersey and up to Port Jervis or Binghamton. As
mentioned soft coal was mined near near the New York Pennsylvania
border south of Buffalo.

Ed


Re: STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Charles Hladik
 

Heck everybody knows you can only put 10 fattened or even non fat cattle in a
40 foot car.
Anything less or more would be more feet.
Chuck Hladik


Re: National Type B trucks

wm7595@...
 

Are there any survivng cars (in museums or otherwise) with this type
of truck? As a relatively attentive observer - I don't think I have
ever seen a truck of this design
I took several pics last July of a Pennsy G29 gondola in captive service at Standard Steel in Lewistown PA. This particular car has the 70t National B3(I think) but they look identical. I posted the picks in a file in the Steam Era Freight Cars Photo group, look in the foler titled Surviving PRR Gondolas.
Roger Cox


Re: Keystone Modeler

smithbf@...
 

What's up with access to the site? I keep getting a "Page cannot be
displayed" for the past week or so. I didn't try to get the latest
issue when new as my cable service was down with all the storms and only
had dial up. Now that my cable service is back, I can't get the site.

Jerry Glow
Jerry, et al.

Apparently the web site provider had a major brain fart and deleted the
entire PRRT&HS site while "decomissioning some equipment" last Saturday.
From the description it seems as if there may have been no ongoing backup
of the site by the provider. The PRRT&HS web master and Al Buchan, the
PRRT&HS pres are busy reconstructing it. I have copies of all of the TKMs
released to date in pdf if you need one.

The PRRT&HS e-store and discussion forums can still be accessed directly.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


Keystone Modeler

jerryglow2
 

What's up with access to the site? I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" for the past week or so. I didn't try to get the latest issue when new as my cable service was down with all the storms and only had dial up. Now that my cable service is back, I can't get the site.

Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/layout/Preview.htm


STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

Since my John Deere post was not the discussion inspiring post it could have
been, I'll pitch this one out.

The amount of information exchanged on a weekly basis in staggering to me. I
still can't get over the fact that more then one of you know how many
fattened cattle fit in a SPECIFIC stock car. That is just one of the many
obscure facts that have come and gone on this list. But what are you doing
with all this information? I know that many of you are avid and very skilled
modelers. However, I can't remember the last time I saw an "I just finished"
or "I am working on a _________" posting.

SO, I propose that once a week (Mike or Ben, pick a day please) should be
STMFC Show & Tell day. Make an official group declaration! I know that
making photo links is not possible for everyone. Photos would help, but if
not, throw out 3 sentences of what you are working on. This came up on the S
Scale list a week ago. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale via "What is on
your workbench?" It was nice to see what others were doing.

That is the great thing about PRR-Pro. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro
It makes you work on a project and talk about it.

This is also as a result of the upcoming Prototype Modelers meetings. You
are happy with your own work until you go to one of them. THEN you get to
see what others have done. Since there is no contest (at least at the meet I
was at in the spring) it would not matter to get an early peek of your
Naperville model. Besides, not everyone will be able to attend. Share your
good work with the rest of us!

I have recently finished a brass H32. Photos and a brief description will be
along soon.


Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

ed_mines
 

There's a photo of a NH USRA hopper behind an Erie steam locomotive
in one of the soft cover Erie steam books from the '70s (I think
it's a Carlton book).

I think the photo was taken near Maybrook, the NH Erie connection
across the Hudson river from Poughkeepsie, NY. AS the crow flies
Maybrook is closer to the anthracite fields by a direct Erie route,
compared to shipping anthracite to the New York City area, moving it
by barge to a NH connection and sending back west to Maybrook in NH
hoppers.

I've noticed more WM hoppers than one would expect in various Erie
steam photos. A John Long (Erie corporate photographer) photo of an
Erie steam train near Binghamton containing 2 WM hoppers (one
fishbelly, one channel side) immediately comes to mind. Maybe they
were loaded with bituminous coal going north and reloaded with
anthracite going south. Apparently anthracite was sold as far south
as Washington, DC if photos in the wales collection are any
indication.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the eastern
end of the Erie.

The presence of foreign road hoppers containing bituminous coal was
very location dependent on the Erie which had both bituminous coal
and anthracite mines on line. THe bituminous mines were on the
Bradford branch which is approximately south of Rochester, NY on the
NY/PA state line.

I can remember more than one photo of an all hopper train on the
Erie containing PRR, NYC and a few N&W hoppers. I assume these
contained bituminous coal.

Ed


Re: color of Erie/URTX reefer

BlackDiamondRR@...
 

Hi,
I'm getting ready to paint an Erie/URTX steel reefer using a Pacific
Rail Shops S scale 40' (PFE R-40-23) with an added on horizontal riveted seam.
The only photos I have of the prototype are in the ERIE/DL&W color guide and
the color appears to be an orange/yellow. Tough to describe...its not reefer
yellow, nor is it reefer orange (if there actually are such colors) but kind of
a mix.
The discussions on this list about using color renditions form
photographs has gotten me wondering what the actual Erie/URTX steel reefer color
should be? Would appreciate any help on this. BTW, one of the photos has a 40'
Erie boxcar next to it in what appears to be true color rendering of freight car
red as used by the Erie. Both cars have "yellow" placards on them as a
promotional "ship Erie" public display. The freight car red and yellow look "right"
so is the reefer color "right" also?

Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Freight Car addicts breakfast near Timonium Train Show

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote:
There will be a 12-Step breakfast at the IHOP near the Timonium
Fairgrounds Saturday, October 9 at approximately 8 AM to discuss our
addiction to buying freight car photos, kits of freight cars, and
building freight car models.

I'll be there. See you next Saturday.


Ben Hom


Re: National Type B trucks

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Are there any survivng cars (in museums or otherwise) with this type
of truck? As a relatively attentive observer - I don't think I have
ever seen a truck of this design.

I think Portola has a WP 53' gon with National B-1s under it.


Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC

armprem
 

Marty,I hope you have included some CV hopper bottom box cars in
dedicated grain service, or others of the 40000 series in captive service on
your roster.The top loading hatches make some of the cars in that series
rather distinctive.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty McGuirk" <mac@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC


Both are correct.

And one of the cars looks to me like a LV car as well.

Marty

On Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 03:33 PM, pieter_roos wrote:

I agree, that car looks to me like a CPR "minibox" with "Spans the
World" herald. The boxcar directly behind the locomotive might have
M&StL "The Peoria Gateway" lettering.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:
FWIW, the 3rd car in the train seems to be Canadian Pacific (is it a
compass or something in the slogan on the right side? I don't have my
CDS catalog handy.)
The 6th car has that Reading look, to me anyway.
Scott Pitzer

<image.tiff>

<image.tiff>

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Re: Consumer Prototype Protection

Gene Green <lgreen@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@c...> wrote:
<snip> "BLI is advertising their stockcar as a PRR K7a ..."

If there was that much information - what the prototype for the model
was - about more cars it would surely be a big help to me. As to the
relative amount and quality of the detail, each can and will make his
or her own judgement.

I only want the PRR version of the BLI stock car but I hope they sell
a million of each paint scheme.

Gene Green

160761 - 160780 of 195428