Date   

Re: Coal into New England

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
The usual formulas relating to spheres (yeah, I
know they're not true spheres, but close enough)
involve 4/3rds of R, so as R increases the volume
gets bigger faster.
I think Schuyler means the volume gets big faster than the surface area as R increases. But of course it has little to do with the four-thirds part; surface area goes as R squared, volume as R cubed. So Ted's initial comment, that the smaller pieces burn better because of larger surface area per unit volume, is correct. The limiting case is dust: that's why flour dust in silos is explosive (it really just burns extremely fast, which is what an explosion is).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Inside bearing freight trucks?

Jim or Lisa Hayes <jim-and-lisa@...>
 

Some Walthers Amtrak cars have inside bearing trucks. That might give you a
starting point. Though I've heard they don't roll well.

Jim Hayes
Portland OR


OT - Looking for Mike Rose

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Or an email to get to him. Sorry for the
bandwidth.

TIA

SGL


Re: Coal into New England

itc_725 <emfour@...>
 

"As I understand it the dealer would mix these in the truck (so much
of pea, so much of egg for
example) and sell that as a customized blend."

What would the purpose of this be? If the coal is basically the same
type what would the reasoning
for mixing different sizes?

I'd think that different sizes would be used based on the different
characteristics of the boiler
units burning it.
Perhaps the mixing of coal sizes was something peculiar to starting a
specific type of boiler up from cold. The smaller coal would allow
almost instant ignition and rapid rise in BTU rate. The larger coal
would then ignite and burn at a slower, steadier rate.

Just a thought,
Mike Fortney


ADMIN: Re: STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bill Lane writes:

"I know that many of you are avid and very skilled
modelers. However, I can't remember the last time I saw an "I just finished"
or "I am working on a _________" posting."


I actually WOULD like to see more modeling messages and photos. I've thought for some time that we are a bit weak in this regard. As to a particular time for that, I'll leave that to those posting to schedule such efforts. IOW, we won't confine or structure the group to only allow or promote photos of models ONLY on a particular day. If members wish to unofficially post photos and messages of models say, on Friday, I would not discourage it. We certainly do have rules but I don't want more than are needed to operate an effective group.

I would add that I've personally posted many modeling messages including photos before. I will also say that prototype information is one of the strong points of the STMFC and I'm not going to subtract from that by removing such from the files. BTW, currently the STMFPH group I created has plenty of room for photos.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Coal into New England

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ted Culotta:
I would guess that one of the most important
rules in
chemistry and other sciences is at work here.
Assuming equal
composition, for equal weights, the smaller
sized coal would
have greater surface area and therefore burn at
a faster
rate, meaning a hotter fire, or am I way off
base here?

I can't find the reference book I want, but I
think you're at least in a rundown between first
and second . . .

The usual formulas relating to spheres (yeah, I
know they're not true spheres, but close enough)
involve 4/3rds of R, so as R increases the volume
gets bigger faster.

The reason I agree that mixing sizes of coal makes
little to no sense is that the grates it's placed
on have openings sizes related to the size of the
coal. Pea coal would fall right through the
grates designed for lump or egg coal. Not
desireable.

SGL


Re: Coal into New England

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Oct 2, 2004, at 5:01 PM, Eric wrote:

Marty wrote:

"As I understand it the dealer would mix these in the truck (so much of pea, so much of egg for
example) and sell that as a customized blend."

What would the purpose of this be? If the coal is basically the same type what would the reasoning
for mixing different sizes?

I'd think that different sizes would be used based on the different characteristics of the boiler
units burning it.

I don't see how mixing sizes makes sense.
Eric:

I would guess that one of the most important rules in chemistry and other sciences is at work here. Assuming equal composition, for equal weights, the smaller sized coal would have greater surface area and therefore burn at a faster rate, meaning a hotter fire, or am I way off base here?

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Inside bearing freight trucks?

prr6380
 

Pennsy had a group of quad hoppers equiped with them. Railroads
didn't want them in interchange at the time because of lack of parts.

Walt Stafa

- In STMFC@..., "Dean Payne" <deanpayne@a...> wrote:

OK, here's a really odd one: is there any way to make an inside-
bearing freight truck? The Timken Company made some inside roller
bearing trucks way back in the 30's, and put them on a few
experimental cars that did not travel far from home. They stayed
on
the Wheeling and Lake Erie, as far as I know, but perhaps there
were
other examples that ran on other lines. Does anyone know of any
instances? The appearance was unusual, of course, just the wheels
with no external frames at all. There were brakes, of course, but
nothing outside of the wheel faces.
So, while I doubt than any such trucks are available in HO, can
they
be created using... what, leading truck wheels (inside-bearing) off
of a loco and Kadee brake hardware?? The diameter of leading truck
wheels appears to be close, at least on my Bachmann Consolidation.
I
don't know if those parts are available separately or if I can go
to
a detail parts mfgr...
Dean Payne


S Scale PRR H32

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

Here is my recently completed S Scale PRR H32.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_H32.jpg Unfortunately after
about 7000 photos my camera is starting to show its age with the color
balance being off.

Overland/Ajin made these for River Raisin Models
http://riverraisinmodels.com in July 1989. I bought this from fellow S
Scaler John Armstrong of Ohio. He mentioned that a large unfriendly object
was dropped in the center of the roof. I picked it up on the cheap as a
scratch and dent! After a few false starts I managed the courage to unsolder
the whole roof and push if back out. Getting the roof back on was a
challenge as well. I ran a box tube down the center just in case the roof
wanted to return to it original dented state.

I had to paint an H30 in the Shadow Keystone scheme, so that was my
motivation to finally get it out and finish the model after at least 7 years
of ownership. I soldered all the hatches shut. There is nothing in there to
see anyway. As usual, I added a plastic hose for the train pipe line, draft
gear, cut levers with my own cut lever bracket castings, and PRR Trust
Plates. I also added the loading plate to the side of the car. I blasted it
clean, painted it with Scalecoat MOW Gray, decaled it with John Hall Decals,
and dusted it up.

It would be great if you posted your latest completed piece as well. A few
lines of your methods of completion would be great as well.

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


Inside bearing freight trucks?

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

OK, here's a really odd one: is there any way to make an inside-
bearing freight truck? The Timken Company made some inside roller
bearing trucks way back in the 30's, and put them on a few
experimental cars that did not travel far from home. They stayed on
the Wheeling and Lake Erie, as far as I know, but perhaps there were
other examples that ran on other lines. Does anyone know of any
instances? The appearance was unusual, of course, just the wheels
with no external frames at all. There were brakes, of course, but
nothing outside of the wheel faces.
So, while I doubt than any such trucks are available in HO, can they
be created using... what, leading truck wheels (inside-bearing) off
of a loco and Kadee brake hardware?? The diameter of leading truck
wheels appears to be close, at least on my Bachmann Consolidation. I
don't know if those parts are available separately or if I can go to
a detail parts mfgr...
Dean Payne


STMFC Show & Tell and photos

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Marty & List,

When I posted this morning, I mentioned "I know that making photo links is
not possible for everyone." I meant that there would be no photos posted to
the STMFC sites. The member would who is showing his work have links to
photos hosted elsewhere. I know that the Yahoo groups are getting full.
Maintaining what photo is useful and what needs to be deleted is a difficult
task.

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


Re: Coal into New England

Eric
 

Marty wrote:

"As I understand it the dealer would mix these in the truck (so much of pea, so much of egg for
example) and sell that as a customized blend."

What would the purpose of this be? If the coal is basically the same type what would the reasoning
for mixing different sizes?

I'd think that different sizes would be used based on the different characteristics of the boiler
units burning it.

I don't see how mixing sizes makes sense.


Eric Petersson


________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag


Re: Coal into New England

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

I have a slightly different angle on Marty's New England coal
discussion. I am more familiar with the New Haven. The NH received
lots of anthracite in foreign road hoppers via the gateway at Maybrook.
Reading, LV and LNE hoppers were commonplace with D&H and some Erie
sprinkled in as well. PRR hoppers were numerous (H21 types, as Marty
has seen), as one would expect. I have also seen lots of NYC hoppers
in photos, particularly the USRA 70-ton types. Hoppers from the B&O,
N&W and WM were rare, but not unheard of. Like Marty, I cannot recall
ever seeing a C&O car in photos. Regarding the NH's fleet of USRA
hoppers, it is interesting to me, that while they served the coal
industry at online points of transloading from barge, they also are
frequent "guests" in photos from the Harrisburg area. I wonder if this
is because they were sent for loading for NH company service or because
they were captured by the Pennsy.

================================================




While you ponder the appearance of those cars in New England, I've pondered
the appearance of New Haven and Lehigh Valley hoppers on the Western
Maryland Railway in the northern West Virginia coal fields. I've discussed
this a few times with Max Robin (who is probably lurking here somewhere...).
Strings of New Haven hopper cars were being loaded at a mine on the Coal &
Iron line south of Elkins for about a decade. Lehigh Valley cars show up in
photos taken around Belington, W. Va. Possibly there was a special contract
to a user on these railroads, or possibly company coal.

In another instance, cars from the Rainey Wood Coke Company and the Alan
Wood Steel Company were frequent visitors to WM rails. I suspect there was a
metallurgical attraction to the coal from certain mines along the WM.

It can add up to a varied coal train consist, depending on the era.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


C&O USRA 2 bay hoppers

Curt Fortenberry <arrphoto@...>
 

According to the C&O Hoppers and Gons book, vol 1, C&O rebuilt lots of
their USRA 2 bay hoppers (number series 62000) (ala the Tichy kit,
accurail, etc) during WWII. But it really doesn't discuss what all
was done other than some heap shields. In the photo (about 1946) of
one car, it appears to have AB brakes, and another poor photo implies
wine door locks. Does anyone have any other information about these
cars? Did they get the AB brakes during the rebuilding, or perhaps
earlier shoppings?

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Coal into New England

raildata@...
 

I think it all boiled down to price when it came to anthracite sizes being
mixed. For home heating, the larger the size the more it cost. My folks always
ordered a mix of sizes. Think the larger stuff kept the finer pieces from
falling through the grates.

Been studying the anthracite industry for years. A really great source of
info to help get some idea of coal movements is to study the carloads received
from other lines. For most easter roads this is broken down into anthracite and
bituminous. Usually the number of cars laoded on line is given.

I agree that very few C&O cars were seen in the northeast, or at least that I
can recall. On the D&H moving north out of Wilkes-Barre and bound for Canada
and New England there was a very large volume of bituminous coal along with
the anthracite. For all intents, The D&H was an extension of the PRR to New
England and Canada.
Do remember seeing N&W cars. Even recall seeing some of those Seely type SOU
composites with outside chains holding the bottom doors; also northbound on
the D&H. Almost all the loco coal used on the DL&W and D&H arrived in PRR
hoppers since these "anthracite" roads burned very little anthracite after about
WW1.

During steam years roughly 25% of all coal produced was used by the railroads
so much of what was moving to New England was loco fuel. So a model railroad
with coaling facilities should have some logic as to where that coal
orginated.

Railroads could never compete where a water route was available. One of the
most amazing examples of this was where the PRR at Sodus Point NY loaded
bituminous coal into lake boats to transport it to a power plant at Oswego...a
distance of only 40 miles!

All very interesting...and not a lot of documentation available!

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


.


Re: NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

Pete Brown &#92;(YahooGroups&#92;) <YahooLists@...>
 

The WM was an active participant in the alphabet route, which might explain
some of its rolling stock being found up in NY during the diesel era.



The alphabet route included: WM, P&WV, Reading, CNJ, NYC&STL, W&LE, L&HR,
NYNH&H and B&M. It did not include the Erie or B&O, however, and was even
considered competitors of those railroads, IIRC.



I know WM had customers in odd places that specifically wanted its coal for
various uses. Most of the WM coal went to Baltimore and out on ships,
however.



The WM coal operations, specifically those in the Chaffee branch in WV, can
make for some really interesting modeling. Shay #6, the largest as-built
Shay ever, was the ruler of those 10% grades up to the coal mines.



Pete



_____________________________________________________
Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
(wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)



_____

From: ed_mines [mailto:ed_mines@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 5:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie



There's a photo of a NH USRA hopper behind an Erie steam locomotive
in one of the soft cover Erie steam books from the '70s (I think
it's a Carlton book).

I think the photo was taken near Maybrook, the NH Erie connection
across the Hudson river from Poughkeepsie, NY. AS the crow flies
Maybrook is closer to the anthracite fields by a direct Erie route,
compared to shipping anthracite to the New York City area, moving it
by barge to a NH connection and sending back west to Maybrook in NH
hoppers.

I've noticed more WM hoppers than one would expect in various Erie
steam photos. A John Long (Erie corporate photographer) photo of an
Erie steam train near Binghamton containing 2 WM hoppers (one
fishbelly, one channel side) immediately comes to mind. Maybe they
were loaded with bituminous coal going north and reloaded with
anthracite going south. Apparently anthracite was sold as far south
as Washington, DC if photos in the wales collection are any
indication.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the eastern
end of the Erie.

The presence of foreign road hoppers containing bituminous coal was
very location dependent on the Erie which had both bituminous coal
and anthracite mines on line. THe bituminous mines were on the
Bradford branch which is approximately south of Rochester, NY on the
NY/PA state line.

I can remember more than one photo of an all hopper train on the
Erie containing PRR, NYC and a few N&W hoppers. I assume these
contained bituminous coal.

Ed


Re: STMFC Show & Tell Friday

Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

-Bill,

I think this is a fine idea, but we may need to engage in a little
File area clean up before it will be possible to post pictures.

I know I had to cut down the size of the train images I tried to
upload last week since I was told the first try exceeded the
alloted file space for the group.

I think it would be helpful if we all cleared up some old photos
and files.

Marty


Re: CV Local Freight -- Back to STMFC

Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

Armand,

I think (I need to check this first) that the grain-hatch equipped
40000 cars are just a little late for me.

I do have several 40000 cars, two of them in dedicated LCL
service on the wayfreight -- usually coupled behind the engine or
in front of the van.

These are Steam Shack (F&C) kits that have had the problems
with the ends fixed and the molded in grain lessened.

Marty


Re: Keystone Modeler

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith told us:
Apparently the web site provider had a major brain fart and deleted the
entire PRRT&HS site while "decomissioning some equipment" last Saturday.
From the description it seems as if there may have been no ongoing backup
of the site by the provider. The PRRT&HS web master and Al Buchan, the
PRRT&HS pres are busy reconstructing it.
Many ISPs do not provide backup, and it is often up to the content provider to do so. I certainly hope PRR T&HS does so, or the "reconstructing" can be a nightmare.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NH/WM /B&O hoppers on the Erie

Tim O'Connor
 

Apparently anthracite was sold as far south as Washington, DC
if photos in the wales collection are any indication.
Anthracite from Pennsylvania was sold all over the country,
and exported to other countries as well. It was the fuel of
choice for home heating. Quite a lot of it was shipped in
box cars.

I recall seeing some B&O hoppers in Erie steam photos on the
eastern end of the Erie.
Considering that the B&O served New York City (via car floats)
along with PRR, LV, Erie, Reading, and CNJ, I'd be amazed if there
weren't photos showing B&O hoppers in that area.

160681 - 160700 of 195360