Date   

Decker meat traffic

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I haven't given up on this yet. Here is what a former employee now
living in Arizona wrote me.

We had four branch houses in Texas all supplied primarily by
rail. There was some truck shipments but the majority was by rail. The

BH's were Dallas, San Antonio, Houston and Texarkana. We also shipped
by
rail to Memphis,TN. Detroit, Mi. Chicago, IL. and some where in New York

state, I don't remember where. The refrigerator cars were originally
primarily company owned or leased. Prior to 1936 Deckers name and after
the
Armour purchase the Armour name on the side. The first cars were wood
sheathed with ice bunkers they were later replaced with steel cars with
ice
bunkers. the icing was done at the plant just south of the extension of

15th St NE. Towards the end most of the cars were mechanical refers but
we
still did some icing. The tank cars were GATX leased units although
some
carried the Armour name. I'm sorry I can't tell you where they were
shipped. I do know Armour had a soap works near Chicago and some grease
was
sent there. Mason City also had a car repair facility one of only two
in
the company.

Anyone have any photos of Armour tank cars?

Clark and Bob


Re: Freight Car Colors

Richard Hendrickson
 

Sez fearless leader Mike Brock:

As Richard pointed out, color equipment books tend to show 40's/50's cars as
they appear in later yrs...not of much use. So, while one might argue that
weathering and aging occurs similarly in '90 to '45, the fact remains that
if one really wanted to portray an NP DS box car as it appeared in '54 using
a color photo of same, the number of photos to use as data is rather
limited.
I entirely agree with Mike's main point here. However, if one were to
"argue that weathering and aging occurs similarly in '90 to '45," one would
be dead wrong, a point I have tried to make repeatedly in my articles and
clinics on weathering and "vintage dating." In the steam era, equipment
got much grimier much faster than it did after the advent of diesels; this
is clearly shown in the relatively small number of color photos that date
from that period. Not only was rolling stock bombarded with locomotive
stack exhaust but industrial America was a much dirtier place than it is
today. Paint fading and rust staining were, in most cases, much less
noticeable before the mid-1950s, as the paint was usually covered with
grime before it faded much (though there were exceptions like stock cars,
which were frequently steam-cleaned). Wheel faces were covered with thick
oil goo as oil from the journal boxes leaked past the primitive seals and
onto the wheels, and was then thrown up in highly visible stripes on the
ends of adjacent cars; this, too, is clearly visible even in b/w photos.
Wheels were NEVER rusty when in service, as they commonly are on roller
bearing trucks. Roofs and underbodies, in particular, were filthy except
on new or newly repainted cars. The peeling of roof paint which revealed
the galvanized metal underneath, an effect that is popular with some
modelers, was seldom as readily apparent on the prototype cars as on the
models, since paint and galvanized metal alike were almost invariably
covered with a dense coat of "stack fallout." In short, realistic
weathering of steam era rolling stock is very different from realistic
weathering of more modern equipment, though some modelers are apparently
confused about this.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Freight Car Colors

Stafford F. Swain <sswain@...>
 

Hi Ed:

You may wish to adopt the concept we (as in Dan Kirlin and I) followed to create the CNR chip of many colors (actually seven colors) as part of the color study which permitted us to broadcast the key colors in paint-form far and wide.

First we created dead-on household enamel matches of the colors using the hardware store matching technology. Numerous eyes were used to validate 'dead-on' aspect of the dry samples to the real chip in indirect sunlight.

Then we got masonite sheets of approx 4' by 2' and spaced out one inch stripes separated by 1/2 inch masking tape to create a grid of stripes across the 2' width (some math required). Each end stripe of the selected color order was deliberately measured double width plus saw kerf and the color order pattern was reversed.

We then painted every second stripe area the appropriate color (three coats) and then went back and then painted the other stripes. The whole chunk of masonite was then cut into appropriate size chips with a yield of about 40 chips of all seven colors that were about six inches long and two inches wide. A label on the back was used to denote which colors were which. These chips were then sold for $5.00 each (cost recovery) and mailed to these that wanted same.

We probably generated about 240 chips in all so the information is now pretty wide-spread. Further, I still have the almost full litres of of household paint in the archive and this could all be repeated if the demand was there.

In a message dated 11/21/01 12:36:37 AM, shile@... writes:

Mea culpa. It is there.

Ed - Any chance that the chart will be expanded and updated? This would
make a decent internet resource.
Steve,

The word is "doubtful" unless we can come up with a way to produce a series
of paint samples that would be economically viable.

There's a long story behind this, but I'll spare everyone the gory details.
Suffice it to say that the Accuflex column shown in RP CYC Volume 3 was
originally planned to be completed to a much greater degree with additional
"new" colors. I received five new preproduction "freight car red" Accuflex
colors that would have been very useful for steam era modelers, but they
never materialized to become production paint added to the Accuflex product
line. This occurred when Testor's and Accuflex had a falling-out and the new
paint colors were never produced.

Trying to replicate the actual paint samples in print using the CMYK printing
process (as was discussed earlier) simply won't work. We're open to ideas!!

Incidentally, the AC&F paint samples range from the 1936-1952 period.
Additional data was developed using a set of Boles color drift cards that
Greg Konrad owns. These included drift cards for various roads who built
their own cars or bought cars from builders other than AC&F during this
period (such as Milwaukee Road, Southern, and Rio Grande). Most of the
"freight car red" samples from AC&F collection during the late 1930s were
distinctively "dark brown" in appearance and closely match Modelflex/Accuflex
Dark Tuscan Oxide Red. Based on the AC&F paint samples, the 1930s colors were
also often flatter than most paints used during the World War II period and
later. Later paints during the 1940s and '50s often had a glossy appearance
when freshly applied. Hope this helps.

Ed Hawkins


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Stafford Swain
26 Kenneth Street
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
R3T 0K8
(204) 477-9246
sswain@...


Re: Freight Car Colors

hosam <hosam@...>
 

Good Afternoon,
My first post to this list...

At 11:22 AM 11/21/01 -0500, you wrote:
I really can't agree with the idea that the eye can't be trusted.
There is no doubt the human eye cannot be trusted. Why, whenever I'm in
a crowd and my eye spots a lovely lass, they give me away every time to my
wife!

If you are a serious modeler it seems to me as important to learn to use
colour like an artist rather than as a technician mixing up paint by
formula in a hardware store. I'd rather trust my eye, what I know about the
colour (which might include a chip or formula)and an perhaps old colour
photo to finish a car than slavish adherence to formulae derived from a
pigment mix. If the colour looks wrong it is wrong - remember that colours
appear darker to the eye when they cover a small area than they do when
seen on a large one so the formula is going to give you a starting point
which is too dark.
Aidrian
There can also be no doubt that color is subjective as well as emotional.
Think about it!!

(I've got to admit that I am tempted to do the whole layout in monochrome
or sepia since I haven't yet seen a colour photo of the time and area that
I'm interested in. )
Here is an easier approach, film the layout/models etc with a Video
camera and play the resulting tape etc back thru an old black/white
television.. You might even learn something about how various colors react
to being shown in black/white. After trying this experiment you may want
to repaint the layout/models etc until the results more closely resemble
the original B/W photos...hosam...


Re: Freight Car Colors

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

I really can't agree with the idea that the eye can't be trusted.

If you are a serious modeler it seems to me as important to learn to use
colour like an artist rather than as a technician mixing up paint by
formula in a hardware store. I'd rather trust my eye, what I know about the
colour (which might include a chip or formula)and an perhaps old colour
photo to finish a car than slavish adherence to formulae derived from a
pigment mix. If the colour looks wrong it is wrong - remember that colours
appear darker to the eye when they cover a small area than they do when
seen on a large one so the formula is going to give you a starting point
which is too dark.

Aidrian
(I've got to admit that I am tempted to do the whole layout in monochrome
or sepia since I haven't yet seen a colour photo of the time and area that
I'm interested in. )

-----Original Message----- (with bits snipped)
From: Jeff English [mailto:englij@...]

You cite 1935 as a deliberate challenge because of the
obvious lack of hard information (RP Cyc's formulas are for post-
war, are they not?), although I believe some RRs had formulas for
home-made paint that specified proportions of pigments. Such a
quantitative starting point, if availablle, would be far better than
simply guessing on a completely subjective basis.<<


Re: Freight Car Colors

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jeff English writes:

This is exactly what Todd avoids by objectively using prototype
photos to guide his painting and weatheirng
And that may be the best solution. In fact, at least one clinician coming to
Prototype Rails...Mike Rose...does just that. He is a contemporary modeler,
however, and has the great advantage...or, perhaps, disadvantage.....of
being able to personally inspect his target objective. At least he was able
to until Sep11. But, those modeling in later yrs certainly appear to have an
advantage due to the much larger...it seems......data base of color photos.
As Richard pointed out, color equipment books tend to show 40's/50's cars as
they appear in later yrs...not of much use. So, while one might argue that
weathering and aging occurs similarly in '90 to '45, the fact remains that
if one really wanted to portray an NP DS box car as it appeared in '54 using
a color photo of same, the number of photos to use as data is rather
limited.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Car Colors

HAWK0621@...
 

In a message dated 11/21/01 12:36:37 AM, shile@... writes:

Mea culpa. It is there.

Ed - Any chance that the chart will be expanded and updated? This would
make a decent internet resource.
Steve,

The word is "doubtful" unless we can come up with a way to produce a series
of paint samples that would be economically viable.

There's a long story behind this, but I'll spare everyone the gory details.
Suffice it to say that the Accuflex column shown in RP CYC Volume 3 was
originally planned to be completed to a much greater degree with additional
"new" colors. I received five new preproduction "freight car red" Accuflex
colors that would have been very useful for steam era modelers, but they
never materialized to become production paint added to the Accuflex product
line. This occurred when Testor's and Accuflex had a falling-out and the new
paint colors were never produced.

Trying to replicate the actual paint samples in print using the CMYK printing
process (as was discussed earlier) simply won't work. We're open to ideas!!

Incidentally, the AC&F paint samples range from the 1936-1952 period.
Additional data was developed using a set of Boles color drift cards that
Greg Konrad owns. These included drift cards for various roads who built
their own cars or bought cars from builders other than AC&F during this
period (such as Milwaukee Road, Southern, and Rio Grande). Most of the
"freight car red" samples from AC&F collection during the late 1930s were
distinctively "dark brown" in appearance and closely match Modelflex/Accuflex
Dark Tuscan Oxide Red. Based on the AC&F paint samples, the 1930s colors were
also often flatter than most paints used during the World War II period and
later. Later paints during the 1940s and '50s often had a glossy appearance
when freshly applied. Hope this helps.

Ed Hawkins


Re: Freight Car Colors

Jeff English
 

Ed Workman <eworkman@...> wrote:

Hmmm , a "quantifiable basis"???? From say 1935??? Like what, personal
testimony (always unreliable) published photos? (unreliable) your computer
monitor????? Please furnish spectrographs of the reflected light for
several locations, times of year, weather, times of day, geographic
location and from the appropriate era, otherwise, as you point, out this
is a popularity contest for painters, but has no basis for any real
evaluation, save subjective.
This is not the quantitative basis I was referring to. I was
referring to, at a minimum, paint mxing formulas provided by
others. You cite 1935 as a deliberate challenge because of the
obvious lack of hard information (RP Cyc's formulas are for post-
war, are they not?), although I believe some RRs had formulas for
home-made paint that specified proportions of pigments. Such a
quantitative starting point, if availablle, would be far better than
simply guessing on a completely subjective basis.
Furthermore, far from a popularity contest, good finish and
weathering can be judged by <objectively> comparing one's
studied experience with a given modeler's results. I cited Todd
Sullivan in particular because he's the one who first made it
appearent to me that more satisfactory results are obtained by
objectively using photos to guide one's efforts.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@...

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Freight Car Colors

Jeff English
 

"Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

But I have spent a lot of time in the
last couple of yrs with guys that specialize in weathering...in fact they
give very convincing and effective clinics in their art and they produce
excellent appearing models and layouts. I note, however, that they have a
tendency to produce the same weathering result repeatedly. One of the
problems may be that they choose to produce what they perceive to be the
most commonly seen weathered result. I would submit, however, that
equipment weathers in very different degrees and in different ways. I can
point to photos of equipment that no one would likely weather to because
of fear of believability. OTOH, it may be that the audience is at fault.
This is exactly what Todd avoids by objectively using prototype
photos to guide his painting and weatheirng. He achieves plenty of
variation, as should any objective prototype modeler. Come to
Naperville next fall and see for yourself (although Todd was among
the missing this year).

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@...

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Fw: An NP color observation and question

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

From Larry Jackman:

Back in the late 70s I worked in a hardware store in River
Edge NJ. They had a large paint department. The owner of the
store ( he had been a housepainter before starting the
store),his son and a third person (who was the paint
deptartment paint man) told me you can never duplicate a
color. Also I had two paint factory salesmen tell me the
same thing. No two batches of paint at the factory are every
the same. Ofcourse today you have spectrographs that you can
measure the so called color and get very close but it still
remains there are no two batches of paint the same. There
must be tolerances just like in the machine shop you must
have tolerances on a measurement. No one can measure an
inch. Oh yes their can with the mew fangled measuring
machines get to .000005 of an inch but that still is not an
inch. It will be 1.000005 or .999995 but that is not
1.000000. I am not trying to burn any one. It is just I do
not worry about color as long as it is close. I agree with
Mike that it is a waste of time to chase a color with out
allowing yourself the tolerances that you must have.
Another thing these paint men pointed out, you can not
remember a color.
Thank you
Larry Jackman


An NP color observation and question

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

To be sure, I don't fault anyone for trying to quantify or evaluate color on
paint chips etc. While I haven't changed my view on the subject, I'm
certainly not going to waste space and time trying to convince anyone that
it's a "waste of time". I do, however, think that the subject of color on
frt cars is useful and would like to point out something in a photo that
puzzles me.

While preparing to paint a Sunshine NP DS box car of the 10000 class...car
#12855....I did some research into the color of the paint.....no, no,
no...I'm not going to give out a number...and I note that most photos show
it to be an oxide red color, not quite as red as UP synthetic red introduced
in '37. More on that in a moment. Anyhow, I figured that I would start with
Polyscale Oxide Red and then weather it a bit by leaving it outside in the
Florida rain and sun for a few days. Anyhow, I'm looking through the NP
Color Pictorial Vol 1 by Joseph Shine and...uh oh...I see a photo...pg
27...that makes me pause. Here is a shot taken with good sun showing a
string of NP box cars...in 1952...and, while most appear to have some shade
of light reddish brown...as in the car I'm trying to model...two are
definitely much darker brown and it does not appear to be due to
weathering...that is, the white lettering etc., is clearly discernible. At
least two identically sized cars differ significantly and they exibit the
"Main Street" lettering. So, what gives? Did NP use different batches of
paint? Were they changing colors? Another curiosity is with respect to the
roofs. Sunshine says the roofs were red but lost their paint over time and
took on a "silver/grey" appearance. Werll...uh...these cars all have very
dark roofs. If I didn't suspect weathering at work, I'd say they were
painted black. Proof of the puddin' is in the eatin', of course, so I'll
smudge my roof up a bit...regardless of the correct number.

The late Terry Metcalfe says this about UP's frt car colors. "UP frt cars
were painted Common Standard No. 11, "Metallic". The color was a
reddish-brown. A reproduced sample in the "UP RR Painting Guide 1903-1930
Common Standard No. 22" is not a very good reproduction of the original
color. A comparison of the paint chip in the book with the original in UP
Museum files in Omaha files shows the actual color to be much redder. Who
knows what the color really was as it goes without saying that the color of
a frt car changed after being pulled by a dirty steam loco for a few miles."
Terry mentioned that UP changed to a "Synthetic Red" in '37. He notes this
about this new paint ..."it appears it was more red than the original".
"Modelers will find the closest match to Synthetic Red" to be Scalecoat's
Oxide Red. Another approximation of the color is Pantone Matching System
color number 483C..." In your author's opinion, Synthetic Red is a little
more red than that color too."

For what it's worth.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Car Colors

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jeff English steps to the plate:


Well, this topic has certainly generated a bit of interest.
Without rehashing what others have already beaten to death, I just
want to add my voice to those of Jeff Aley and Dave Nelson.
Certainly there is a quantifiable basis from which one then carries
their artistic abilities to make their own models look right under the
simultaneous conditions of 1) layout lighting compared with
whatever actual daylight conditions one wants to approximate, 2)
the aging/weathering history one is trying to represent in any
particular car, 3) comparative consistency among all the models on
an individual layout (meaning that the variability of
colors/weathering among the fleet is believable).
Uh oh.....

I don't think there is any question that if two modelers have the
same innate abilities regarding sense of reproducing color, the one
who uses a factual starting point such as the RP Cyc formulas is
going to have a more satisfactory result, however slightly, and
probably with less effort, than the one who who simply "feels" their
way along, and likely has to work harder at learning from mistakes.
That said, I've seen a lot of models where the difference is
obvious between those who "have it" and those who don't when it
comes to creating the look and feel of color, weathering and finish.
I would rate Todd Sullivan among the best, and I know for sure that
he looks closely at prototype photos for <every> model he paints &
weathers. I also expect that he uses repeatable paint formulas,
although I don't recall him ever saying so to me.
This raises another rather interesting...and possibly extremely
boring...subject. Weathering believability. In a way it reminds me of the
guy who said to me...as I placed a tree into a scenery scene I was helping
create on a friend's layout..."That tree looks good there." Startled, I
turned and said, "Huh? You mean that if the tree grew over there", pointing
to another spot, "it wouldn't have been doing its job correctly?" It seems
to me that we might be judging weathered equipment in the light of what has
impressed us at some time...or how we might remember it. Nothing against
Todd Sullivan, BTW. But I have spent a lot of time in the last couple of yrs
with guys that specialize in weathering...in fact they give very convincing
and effective clinics in their art and they produce excellent appearing
models and layouts. I note, however, that they have a tendency to produce
the same weathering result repeatedly. One of the problems may be that they
choose to produce what they perceive to be the most commonly seen weathered
result. I would submit, however, that equipment weathers in very different
degrees and in different ways. I can point to photos of equipment that no
one would likely weather to because of fear of believability. OTOH, it may
be that the audience is at fault.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Car Colors

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Mea culpa. It is there.

Ed - Any chance that the chart will be expanded and updated? This would
make a decent internet resource.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: <HAWK0621@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Car Colors



In a message dated 11/19/01 8:21:35 PM, shile@... writes:

I couldn't find a good match for Floquil 175 Southern Freight Car Brown,
but used 74 IC Brown. Interestingly, there is no Wabash entry in the RPC
chart.

Steve,
Uh, the Wabash entry is the last item in the "Red Oxides" section with a
Floquil formula of equal parts of #175 and #186. The one and only paint
sample from the ACF bill of materials was for lot no. 3495, NJI&I
3300-3399,
built 1-51.
Ed Hawkins

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Re: Freight Car Colors

Ed Workman <eworkman@...>
 

At 07:01 PM 11/20/01 -0500, you wrote:

Certainly there is a quantifiable basis from which one then carries
..............f 1) layout lighting compared with whatever actual daylight
conditions one wants to approximate, 2)
the aging/weathering history one is trying to represent in any
particular car,
Hmmm , a "quantifiable basis"???? From say 1935??? Like what, personal testimony
(always unreliable) published photos? (unreliable) your computer monitor?????
Please furnish spectrographs of the reflected light for several locations, times of year, weather, times of day,
geographic location and from the appropriate era, otherwise, as you point, out this is a popularity contest for painters, but has no basis for any real evaluation, save subjective.


Re: Freight Car Colors

Jeff English
 

Well, this topic has certainly generated a bit of interest.
Without rehashing what others have already beaten to death, I just
want to add my voice to those of Jeff Aley and Dave Nelson.
Certainly there is a quantifiable basis from which one then carries
their artistic abilities to make their own models look right under the
simultaneous conditions of 1) layout lighting compared with
whatever actual daylight conditions one wants to approximate, 2)
the aging/weathering history one is trying to represent in any
particular car, 3) comparative consistency among all the models on
an individual layout (meaning that the variability of
colors/weathering among the fleet is believable).
I don't think there is any question that if two modelers have the
same innate abilities regarding sense of reproducing color, the one
who uses a factual starting point such as the RP Cyc formulas is
going to have a more satisfactory result, however slightly, and
probably with less effort, than the one who who simply "feels" their
way along, and likely has to work harder at learning from mistakes.
That said, I've seen a lot of models where the difference is
obvious between those who "have it" and those who don't when it
comes to creating the look and feel of color, weathering and finish.
I would rate Todd Sullivan among the best, and I know for sure that
he looks closely at prototype photos for <every> model he paints &
weathers. I also expect that he uses repeatable paint formulas,
although I don't recall him ever saying so to me.


Re: e-mail Technical Question

Alan C. Welch <acwelch@...>
 

At 03:05 PM 20/11/2001 -0500, you wrote:
In my reader I sort the messages by time received so I can
read a thread in (approximately) the order in which the
individual messages were written. But the two below really
stump me. The first indication I had that something was
screwy was that I read the reply (From Ted C) before the
original message (From Garth G.). Then I looked at the
time-stamps and started to wonder what had happened. I've
looked at the full message headers and as far as I can tell
the "Sent" time stamps are (within seconds) the time that
Yahoo received the message and the time it relayed it to
me.
What about the time-zone thing? Those of us on the east side experience life earlier, and more fully, than those on the west. A later message, that I received earlier (just kidding) referred to Mr. Gates's intentions in a favourable light, but his intentions are only directed to getting your money; if he has to provide a service, let it be as little and as insufficient as the average, unenlightened user will accept.


Re: e-mail Technical Question

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

Guys,

While we (myself especially) do tend to wander a bit far afield,
let's please try to keep our wanderings freight car related.

If you're having a specific issue with this group, please send an
email to either Mike Brock (brockm@...) or me
(jaley@...) and we'll try to get it resolved for you.

Regards,

-Jeff "that's 'Deputy Fife' to you, sir!" Aley

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: e-mail Technical Question

Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

I understand what you're saying. But if I read the full
headers in the e-mail messages correctly the times were
more or less as shown for the time that the messages left
Yahoo. That's why I'm so befuddled.

Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] e-mail Technical Question


Ted and friends,

There are also some people out there who don't know how
to reset the
internal clock inside their computer (like from daylight
savings time).
There are even a few laggards who haven't caught up with
the millennium
yet (I have one friend who still thinks it is 1999). This
causes your
mail sorter to look like it has gone goofy, placing new
messages at the
beginning of your undeleted stash, when actually it is
sorting them
exactly as Bill Gates intended.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

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Re: e-mail Technical Question

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Ted and friends,

There are also some people out there who don't know how to reset the
internal clock inside their computer (like from daylight savings time).
There are even a few laggards who haven't caught up with the millennium
yet (I have one friend who still thinks it is 1999). This causes your
mail sorter to look like it has gone goofy, placing new messages at the
beginning of your undeleted stash, when actually it is sorting them
exactly as Bill Gates intended.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: e-mail Technical Question

Ted Culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

Email systems differ in how they send and receive
email. Many outbound systems will queue mail and send
it at a fixed interval, say every five minutes. This
means that the server does not have to maintain a
costly session with the Internet. Inbound mail can
also be handled in the same way. Even people who are
connected to the Internet via T1 connections don't
usually get their mail in real-time. Their email
account might go out and check the server for new
messages every five minutes or so (the time is usually
configured by the user). The reason that the Yahoo!
Groups postings are generally instantaneous is because
many people initiate them on Yahoo and not on their
email accounts -- when you post or create a new
thread, do you 1) go to Yahoo! Groups or 2) send an
email to the STMFC email address? -- posting directly
to Yahoo Groups! will create an instantaneous message.
However, whether you receive that message
instantaneously is totally dependent upon your email
and your ISP configuration of how email is
routed/queued. Sending an email message to
STMFC@... will be governed by any delays
inherent in your email system.

There, I've exhausted my knowledge of email systems
and I'm not sure if i've answered anyone's questions.

Ted Culotta

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