Date   

Re: HELP

Tim O'Connor
 

CN 109295 was this car a triple or a Quad; offset or outside posts?
Triple offset.

CP 358098 is a triple. Was this car offset or outside post?
Offset.

Ian Cranstone

Ian, what were the number series for the CP offsets? I have notes
on 356235, 357671, 359039, 365340... They seem to be mixed up with
2-bay cars too.

Tim O.


Re: Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Mark,

If you can find a copy of NKP Historical Society Volume 25, #4
it has an excellent article on the cars. There is a builder photo
of NKP #87100 in Trainshed Cyc #75. That is the photo I used for
my model. I used a 50 ft Viking roof and modified the sills to
match the builder photo and used a Plano running board of course.
I think it's pretty accurate.

I'm looking for some information on a Proto 2000 50' double door
boxcar, lettered NKP 87143. I'd like to know the car series it is
part of how many cars were in it. Are there any sources for photos?
Also, how accurate is the kit if built as per the instructions?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Painted MILW Rib Side Cars

dphobbies
 

Just a note to advise that the Rib Side Car Co that makes the plastic
MILW box has released factory painted versions of the cars. The cars
are now available painted and letttered, but unnumbered. Guess he's
looking for fleet buyers. So if you are inclined they should be
showing up at all the vendors.

No, I'm not connected with this project. This guy doesn't seem to
toot his own horn. I had to hunt for him myself.
MILW guys always seem to do that thing under a bushel basket.

Ron Sebastian
Des Plaines


paint color

Randall Hees <hees@...>
 

I have spent a great deal of time and effort researching 19th century
freight car colors, particularly those used on Northern California narrow
gauge lines. This is primarily for railroad car restoration.

Sources include 19th century paint chips from Masury, Valentines, Detroit
lead and others, Southern Pacific and Union Pacific 19th century paint
information, historic house paint information and lots of paint sampling on
historic equipment.

Along the way there are several great truths I have found:

By 1880 commercial paint companies could provide a consistent product, and
could agree on what Tuscan red looked like.

Railroad paint, particularly for larger companies was consistent, across
years and suppliers.

In particular, Tuscan (red) is offered by several companies, at least one
of which is offered in two version, �superfine� and �Pennsylvania�
(cheaper) the chips (after 110 years) are identical to my eye, but the
Pennsylvania version is cheaper.

Paint, when exposed to weather changes quickly. It flattens (early paint
was always gloss finish) and moves to a grayer pastel shade as the carrier
(linseed oil) weathers.

If you expose the layers and analyze them, you will be able to see the
layers. There is always a variation. But the colors have a consistency.

I believe we should spend more time understanding weathering and age than
paint variation.

Also, paint is personal� We all perceive color differently. Color is
affected by scale and light. We are better off trying to model the
differences in color from car to car, instead of slavishly modeling a
specific color.


Randy Hees


Re: Ed Kaminski

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 


Anyone out there have a valid e-mail (or P.O. Mail) address for Ed Kaminski?

Been given two so far that don't work!
ACFESK@... was the last I had

Dick


Re: Rath Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Brian Carlson asks:

What is the vintage and time frame the Rath Indian head could be found on
the sides of refrigerator cars?
The earliest date I have for a car with an Indian head logo (note that
there were several different versions of the logo) was 9-52. A car
repainted 7-51 did not have it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Rath Reefers

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

What is the vintage and time frame the Rath Indian head could be found on
the sides of refrigerator cars?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar

Greg Martin
 

I know that Stan (and I know I will mispell his last name) Rydarowzk make the replacement roof as a resin part. I seem to recall the side sill is oversized as well..? I would have to check my photos of the P&WV car I have.

Greg Martin


Re: Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

For the record, the proto models, at least those I own have the swing tail R which was part of the pre-war, early WW2 lettering scheme. Post-war repaints would have received the block R. Not sure how many received the immediately post war small R.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar


>From Ray Breyer:

>Mark,
>
>This car has come up for discussion in the past, so you might want to do a
>search in the archives for detailed information. Here's what little I know:
>
>NKP 87100-87199, built 7-1942 Ralstron Car Co.
>
>The kit is mostly accurate, except for the roof, which should be a Viking. I
>believe the consensus on this list was to splice two Des Plaines roofs
>together, even though that wouldn't be quite right either.

A builder's photo of NKP 87100 appeared in the Ralston ads in the 1943 and
1946 Car Builders' Cyclopedias (though it's a low angle shot that doesn't
show the Viking roof).

The prototype cars also had metal grid running boards, not the wood type
supplied by L-L. Otherwise, the L-L model is good aside from some very
minor discrepancies in the side sheathing panels to the left of the doors,
the length of the side sill reinforcements below the doors, and the
triangular reinforcements at the lower corners of the door openings (easily
corrected except for the sheathing panels).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Re: Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Ray Breyer:

Mark,

This car has come up for discussion in the past, so you might want to do a
search in the archives for detailed information. Here's what little I know:

NKP 87100-87199, built 7-1942 Ralstron Car Co.

The kit is mostly accurate, except for the roof, which should be a Viking. I
believe the consensus on this list was to splice two Des Plaines roofs
together, even though that wouldn't be quite right either.
A builder's photo of NKP 87100 appeared in the Ralston ads in the 1943 and
1946 Car Builders' Cyclopedias (though it's a low angle shot that doesn't
show the Viking roof).

The prototype cars also had metal grid running boards, not the wood type
supplied by L-L. Otherwise, the L-L model is good aside from some very
minor discrepancies in the side sheathing panels to the left of the doors,
the length of the side sill reinforcements below the doors, and the
triangular reinforcements at the lower corners of the door openings (easily
corrected except for the sheathing panels).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Santa Fe Sunshine Kits

charles slater
 

Jim, which ones are you selling?


From: "atsfjim2000" <atsfjim@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe Sunshine Kits
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:00:44 -0000


List
I am thinning my Santa Fe Sunshine kits. All are unbuilt in
original box. If interested please contact me off list. Thanks.
Jim Barnes


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Re: New Operations book

Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
 

Hi Shawn and List,

The other three are a second 1973 Milwaukee book, a UP from 1939 and a
Chicago Switching district from 1956.

Ted

At 12:24 PM 10/8/2004, you wrote:


Ted,

I know about the Milwaukee and CNW shippers guides; what are the other three?

Shawn Beckert

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schnepf [mailto:railsunl@...]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 6:39 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] New Operations book



Hi Everyone,

The newest book from Ian Wilson has just arrived. It is Steam to the
Niagara Frontier and joins the other five books in the group. As with past
books the emphasis is on steam operations with outstanding black and white
photo reproduction and some color and those wonderfully detailed track
plans showing industries. And the 5 shippers guides to help with historic
research and bill to accurate industries.

Please contact me off list.

Ted
Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 3% added).

----------


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004


Re: Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Mark,

This car has come up for discussion in the past, so you might want to do a
search in the archives for detailed information. Here's what little I know:

NKP 87100-87199, built 7-1942 Ralstron Car Co.

The kit is mostly accurate, except for the roof, which should be a Viking. I
believe the consensus on this list was to splice two Des Plaines roofs
together, even though that wouldn't be quite right either.

Howard Ameling doesn't have any photos of these cars, but the NEB&W website
does have a builder's photo of 87100 in it somewhere. The Fall 1991 issue of
the NKPHTS Magazine has an article on these cars, including photos.

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Heiden [mailto:mark_heiden@...]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:59 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar



Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some information on a Proto 2000 50' double door
boxcar, lettered NKP 87143. I'd like to know the car series it is
part of how many cars were in it. Are there any sources for photos?
Also, how accurate is the kit if built as per the instructions?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Santa Fe Sunshine Kits

atsfjim2000 <atsfjim@...>
 

List
I am thinning my Santa Fe Sunshine kits. All are unbuilt in
original box. If interested please contact me off list. Thanks.
Jim Barnes


Seeking info on NKP Proto 2000 50' double door boxcar

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some information on a Proto 2000 50' double door
boxcar, lettered NKP 87143. I'd like to know the car series it is
part of how many cars were in it. Are there any sources for photos?
Also, how accurate is the kit if built as per the instructions?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: HELP

Ian Cranstone
 

On 8-Oct-04, at 11:47 AM, John Swanson wrote:

CN 109295 was this car a triple or a Quad; offset or outside posts?
Triple offset.

CP 358098 is a triple. Was this car offset or outside post?
Offset.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


Sorting through Freight car colors

Greg Martin
 

Bob Kutella writes in part...

"As much as we would like there to one color for any particular railroad or scheme, the evidence points to the opposite. There are several similar reefers at IRM that were assigned to MILW - which most assume were deep and very orange. But as you peel off the differing layers of paint it gets lighter to a definite yellow-orange, and then back to a darker more pure orange. At each repaint, things changed ever so slightly. Maybe that is more typical of a car leasing outfit vs. a railroad who might be trying to maintain their corporate identity, but we have seen such changes in many cars as we go through the steps to restore them."

Denny S. Anspach, MD replies in part...

"Bob is correct in presenting his evidence that the leasing companies to the greatest extent would not be likely to be greatly concerned with painting their cars to accommodate the lessee's corporate liveries. {snip}

Denny"

And I think this is a true with the class 1 railroads of the era as well.

Without fail the subject of the correctness of freight car color (PRR in particular) raises it's head on a regular basis. Finding that one color that "matches" this drift card or that photo or painting is inasmuch as searching for the "Holy Grail". Reducing that color to scale can make the search even much more diffecult... I like Richard Hendrickson's approach as he often "mixes his to taste..." Perhaps just the right concept. I do the same with the PRR FCC shift for cars/cabins painted in the mid-50's.

In the case of the PRR folks it is hard enough just to keep the color names correct as the PRR FCC is often called "Tuscan"... YIKES! I think the best you can hope for is one somewhat universally accepted color and add weathering to suite... We all have our favorites.

I think the during this era in history the railroads were likely far less concerned with the issue than we as modelers are today trying to recapture what they took for granted. Wasn't it just Freight Car Color? Wasn't it just reefer yellow?

Greg Martin


Re: New Operations book

Shawn Beckert
 

Ted,

I know about the Milwaukee and CNW shippers guides; what are the other three?

Shawn Beckert

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schnepf [mailto:railsunl@...]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 6:39 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] New Operations book



Hi Everyone,

The newest book from Ian Wilson has just arrived. It is Steam to the
Niagara Frontier and joins the other five books in the group. As with past
books the emphasis is on steam operations with outstanding black and white
photo reproduction and some color and those wonderfully detailed track
plans showing industries. The book also has a USA section covering Black
Rock, NY. As there are many action poses, there are several freight cars
pictured in the book.

this book retails for $54.95 and my price is $50.95. I have the other 4
books in the series also in stock.

This series of books are the best ever written on railroad
operations. Also have the book Setup Running another good view into
vintage operations. And the 5 shippers guides to help with historic
research and bill to accurate industries.

Please contact me off list.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 3% added).

----------


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links


color of Erie/URTX reefer

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

John Greedy writes-


> As to color, the early URTX steel reefers
appear to be a
> yellow/orange that may be represented with DRGW
"harvest gold".
> >
> John Greedy
Bob Kutella replies-

As much as we would like there to one color for any particular
railroad or scheme, the evidence points to the opposite. There are
several similar reefers at IRM that were assigned to MILW - which most
assume were deep and very orange. But as you peel off the differeing
layers of paint it gets lighter to a definite yellow-orange, and then
back to a darker more pure orange. At each repaint, things changed
ever so slightly. Maybe that is more typical of a car leasing outfit
vs. a railroad who might be trying to maintain their corporate
identity, but we have seen such changes in many cars as we go through
the steps to restore them.
Bob is correct in presenting his evidence that the leasing companies
to the greatest extent would not be likely to be greatly concerned
with painting their cars to accommodate the lessee's corporate
liveries.

That said, what Bob says does not negate John's authoritative comment
that the early URTX steel reefers seemed to be painted originally a
yellow/orange similar to D&RGW Harvest Gold. What evidence exists
seems to point to directly to this conclusion.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Digest Number 2087

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

John Greedy writes-


> As to color, the early URTX steel reefers
appear to be a
> yellow/orange that may be represented with DRGW
"harvest gold".
> >
> John Greedy
Bob Kutella replies-

As much as we would like there to one color for any particular
railroad or scheme, the evidence points to the opposite. There are
several similar reefers at IRM that were assigned to MILW - which most
assume were deep and very orange. But as you peel off the differeing
layers of paint it gets lighter to a definite yellow-orange, and then
back to a darker more pure orange. At each repaint, things changed
ever so slightly. Maybe that is more typical of a car leasing outfit
vs. a railroad who might be trying to maintain their corporate
identity, but we have seen such changes in many cars as we go through
the steps to restore them.
Bob is correct in presenting his evidence that the leasing companies to the greatest extent would not be likely to be greatly concerned with painting their cars to accommodate the lessee's corporate liveries.

That said, what Bob says does not negate John's authoritative comment that the early URTX steel reefers seemed to be painted originally a yellow/orange similar to D&RGW Harvest Gold. What evidence exists seems to point to directly to this conclusion.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

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