Thanks for the info. Think one is worth $39?

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


__________________________________________________________________
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

Yes, that is interesting. It looks to me like
overlaid? steel? bars on the side. The fasteners
at the bottom of the side at each vertical piece
lend to that impression. They >could< also be
thicker, and wider, wooden pieces. Interesting.

SGL

As Ben Hom so eloquently put it...discussions about computer software has little to do with our agreed to subject matter and is entirely out of scope.

Strike one.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

So, what color do the old style 78's come in, so I
can figure out when the new style are in stock?
Of course, by doing that, the old stock will be in
stock for quite a while . . .

The shops I've been in haven't even known there
WAS a 78 . . .

SGL

Brian Chapman wrote:

There have been several extensive threads concerning N&W hoppers,
during the last few years, on this list. One that I recorded came
about in the summer of 2002.

Mike Brock has asserted a number of times that N&W hoppers traveled
regularly throughout the Midwest. Here are some of his comments from
earlier posts:

" N&W hoppers, of course, went far off N&W tracks, all through the
Midwestern states as many photos and videos show. . . . "

"N&W terminals for "exporting" coal into the Midwest were primarily
Columbus and Cincinnati. Coal moving to Lake Erie went on the Pennsy
to Sanduskey while that traveling to Toledo went NYC.

"It is noteworthy that N&W served two distinctly different coal
types. Pocahontas coal (rated between bituminous and semi-anthracite)
and high volatile bituminous from west of Iaeger both went east and
west depending on the final destination. . . . "

Mike has pointedly said on other occasions that Midwestern roads
moved coal in N&W hoppers regularly and often (am I paraphrasing you
correctly, Mike?). So, get them N&Ws a runnin' on them Midwesturn
roads!

From page 79 of the 1948 AAR Superintendents' PROCEEDINGS OF THE 52ND ANNUAL MEETING,

"There are certain ownerships of coal cars in which there are definite restrictions against loading the cars on the rails of any carrier other than the owning road: for example, the so-called 'C-411' cars which are the C&O, L&N, N&W and Virginian marks."

Therefore, any N&W (or C&O, L&N, VGN) hopper seen in the Mid-West either contained coal mined on those roads, or was returning to those roads empty.

Tim Gilbert

Dear "Loconut35"

The B&O Grey mix, that you mention, using Floquil paints is for PASSENGER
cars NOT freight cars! Not the same color. Paint your B&O Covered hoppers
Cement Grey. I used to use Floquil Primer this is many years ago. I
thought it was perfect for the cement grey color. Then Floquil changed
there primer to a darker grey still not as dark as Reefer Grey or Cement.
The next time I have to do a B&O grey covered hopper I think I will add
some Reefer white to the primer until it looks like what it used to look
like.

I didn't know that F&C made a B&O Class N-31 Covered Wagon type model. I
had seen one of their
N-34 W-T covered hopper that they make exclusively for Central Hobby
Supply. Not the same car. The B&O only built one N-31 #630200 a 50-Ton
Cement car in 1935 using special steels to keep the weight down. The 200
N-34 were 70 Ton Cement cars built in 1940 with Duryea underframes.

At some time in its life the N-31 was painted a very dark color. I would
guess it was black because of the darkness of the B&W photo I have seen
of it.

Edwin C. Kirstatter, B&O Modeler.

________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

Pete Brown and 'Bob' Crispen have been discussing
the Lookout utility offered (or not, as the case
sometimes is) by Microsoft which allows you to
search your own computer.

I downloaded the Google alternative the other day.
It has, in the background while I've been doing
other stuff, searched my entire hard drive, and I
can now search everything on there. I found stuff
I've got that I'd forgotten I had ever seen. Very
fast. Searches my hard drive when I use
conventional Google to the web, and has already
told me I'd already found the answer to that
question once before, and that it was on my hard
drive.

Good stuff, as far as I can tell, and isn't from
MicroSoft for those who don't want to support
Redmonds millionaires.

Now, shall we get back on topic?

SGL

Hello All,

Just a note to inform you that one of the gretest booksellers in the
northeast, Edward R. Hamilton, has a complete section in his catalog
dedicated to Railroads and a sub-section for steam.

In the latest catalog I've received, there is a 9, VHS tape set
entitled, "America's Historic Steam Railroads" Item # is 3299090.

Here is the link for railroad section:

http://www.edwardrhamilton.com/subject1/rr.html

Here is the link for the VHS items:

http://www.edwardrhamilton.com/titles/3/2/9/3299090.html

I have no personal or financial interest in the company whatsoever. I
have been purchasing books from him for 16 years now and have never
been disappointed.

Alain...San Diego

Other than the Dec 2003 MR article, is there a good listing of what
each of the major manufacturers' trucks really represent? I know what
some of the trucks are, but others seem a mystery! Can someone fill in
the missing data or add to this list?

Kadee #500 "Bettendorf" = 50 ton AAR (?) double truss ??
Athearn #90400 "Bettendorf" = ??
Atlas #185000 "Bettendorf" = ??
Accurail #100 "Bettendorf" = 70 ton AAR (?)with spring planks
Tichy #3008 "Bettendorf" = 70 ton AAR (ASF)self-aligning spr. plankless
ECW #9053 "Bettendorf" = 70 ton AAR (?)self-aligning spring plankless
Proto #21251 = 50 ton (AAR?) (?)spring plankless
Proto #3212560 = 50 ton AAR (?) simplex bolsters

thanks for the help
Stefan
Duncan, BC Canada

An interesting photo on this site is of CNW 128698, a double sheathed box car from 1912. What I found odd was the dark lines or shadows spaced along the side sheathing, making it look somewhat like the panels of a steel sheathed car. What is it in the design that gives this appearance?
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/cnw128698asw.jpg

Rob Kirkham

I know that photos of freight cars that are not where they are suppose to be are of interest to some on this group. I was looking at the images on the Wheeler CD I had burned before mailing it tomorrow and noticed SP 461873. This is a two bay ballast style hopper. It was spotted at Stewartville MN awaiting loading with iron ore. Sidney must have had a likening for SP cars there are quite a few SP and TNO cars.
Saturday we stopped at the Wilder museum in Spring Valley MN . I wanted to see the iron ore exhibit that was mentioned in the newspaper article I posted on this site a couple weeks ago. The museum charges a fee and the elderly ladies there thought I needed to see the entire museum. I explained I only had time for the iron ore exhibit. Finally we came to an understanding and I got a tour of the museum. (except for the Laura Ingles part thank goodness) I was glad I did because they had several of the ore nuggets on display. They are jagged rocks about 1" to 3" either tan or dark gray. I was able to get a photo copy of a photo of the load out facility. Recognizable hoppers being loaded are CGW (3), CB&Q, NKP, and NYC.
Clark Propst

About 1938 - working from memory here, can't confirm until I'm back
home next month - the AAR asked the railroads to test various metal
running boards. It was only after the test period that metal running
boards were required. Wood running boards on cars already built
were, of course, grandfathered in.
Gene Green

Jerry,

Southern Pacific alone took delivery on nearly 6,000 box cars from
1940 to 1942 with metal grid running boards. Also the 1,000 R-40-14's
built during the war were so equipped. All of the C&NW and NKP War
Emergency box cars were equipped with metal grid running boards.
Perhaps other people can cite other batches of cars built with them
prior to 1944 -- when they became required equipment.

Tim O.

I saw a PSC (I think) "12,000 gallon" insulated tank car model at the
hobbyshop today. Is this an accurate model of anything?

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Rich, some years ago PSC imported some "bargain" models of HP ICC-105 tank
cars, and the model you saw may be one of them if it had a small valve
casing on top of the tank instead of an expansion dome. IIRC, They weren't
wildly inaccurate but they also were rather crude and not very well
detailed.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
"Metal grid running boards began to appear in significant numbers in
the
late 1930s."

Richard, I hate taking you to task about this. But it is
not really true. Metal "open gride" running boards started
to appear on new and rebuilt equipment in the "very" late
1930's, I don't think some of the manufactures got into
offering them until early in the year of 1940 (Morton,
here in Chicago was one) from what I have read in Railway
Age. It's misleading to say that they appeared in significant
numbers prior to the end of WWII, as very few new and
rebuilt cars entered the ranks from 1940 until near the
end of the war.

This message arrived while Sandra and I were out running a sports car rally
in her 1970 MG-B (in this year's first serious rain in Southern Oregon -
barometer 29.3 and snow on the mountains above 3,000 ft. - maybe an early
ski season. But I digress). Both Tony Thompson and Tim O'connor defended
me while I was away from the keyboard, for which I thank them, and Tony
aptly pointed out that the issue here is what is meant by "significant
numbers". Many railroads tried steel running boards on at least one or two
new car orders between 1936 and 1944 and by the early '40s the railroads
that had settled on steel running boards as standard practice for house
cars included not just the NKP and C&NW, as Tim mentioned, but RRs as
diverse as the Alton, B&LE, EJ&E, GM&O, MoPac, NC&StL, N&W, and WM. That
adds up to a lot of cars - what I'd call a "significant number." YMMV, of
course.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

I don't know what they did to avoid the problems Phil alludes to, but among
the early specialized coke cars were those of the BR&P which kind of looked
like large, open-top stock cars (without doors of course). I would guess that
other roads in steel and coal producing regions had similar cars and I have
heard before that stock cars had a dual role transorting coke.

Would these be the same as cars lableled coke racks in early ORERs? These appeared on the Toledo & Ohio Central, Kanawha & Michigan, and Zanesville & Western, and I'm sure on other roads as well. The Ohio Central lines had about 2700 total of these cars. In glancing at the 1905 ORER, they appeared to vary quite a bit (they were gone by the 1919 ORER I have, or are labeled and numbered differently):
IL: 31' 5" - 35' 7.5"
IW: 8' 3" - 9' 4"
capacity: 50000 - 80000

Mark Plank
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Phil Buchwald wrote:

...Westerfield's site makes reference to the drop bottom doors on the
MILW's 36 foot stock cars possibly being used to haul coke. I wonder
how well that scheme worked: putting (hot?)coke into a wood car.

From just after the turn of the century until the mid-1920s, the Santa Fe
ordered thousands of new stock cars which had Caswell drop bottom doors and
longitudinal roof hatches for the loading of coke, so that the cars could
earn backhaul revenue instead of being returned to the west empty.
Apparently this was a successful arrangement until coke was largely
replaced as an industrial fuel in the 1930s and '40s. Then beginning in
the late 1930s most of these cars were rebuilt with solid floors and roofs.
Whether the coke was loaded hot I can't say, though it seems unlikely.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Mark Plank wrote:

Would these be the same as cars lableled coke racks in early ORERs? These
appeared on the Toledo & Ohio Central, Kanawha & Michigan, and Zanesville &
Western, and I'm sure on other roads as well. The Ohio Central lines had
about 2700 total of these cars. In glancing at the 1905 ORER, they appeared
to vary quite a bit (they were gone by the 1919 ORER I have, or are labeled
and numbered differently):
IL: 31' 5" - 35' 7.5"
IW: 8' 3" - 9' 4"
capacity: 50000 - 80000
========================================



In reviewing some early Western Maryland Railway photos, I've noted several
coke racks which look like gondolas with extended slatted sides and ends. It
makes me wonder if these cars were fitted to suit the demands of the month
or quarter. Unfortunately, the images are not clear enough to discern car
numbers, but they were spotted at or near coke wharves along the WM in West
Virginia.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.

Sounds like you have a real grudge against Microsoft. I'll never understand
the "anything but Microsoft" crowd. I think it must come from the same
mentality that makes someone automatically hate the driver in the next lane
if they are driving an expensive import. Of course, anyone who will quote
Joel definitely has issues with MS :-)

There's nothing intrinsically dangerous about Outlook that wasn't begged-for
as a feature, and then abused by a bunch of bored teenagers on another
continent. "Outlook doesn't kill computers, virus writers kill computers."
There is no such thing as a secure computer system on a public network.
Virus writers attack MS products because 1. the tools are readily available
and 2. maximum exposure. This is the same reason there were so many DOS
viruses back when DOS was king, and had competing versions from at least
three vendors (IBM, MS, Digital Research to name a few).

Microsoft legally acquired the rights to distribute/modify etc. the ftp
client. They include it as part of Windows. This is not some evil or
sinister plot like you might have read on /. .

Microsoft has bought lots of companies in the past for either their products
or for portions of their technology (they do that a lot - Visio, Foxpro,
Virtual PC, their accounting package offering etc.), Remember, these
companies don't *need* to sell out to Microsoft. The apache license is here:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

The license doesn't really restrict MS from doing anything other than
redistributing the software without the Apache license intact. If you
believe so, you haven't read the license. Of all the "open source" licenses,
it is really one of the most commerce-friendly. Since MS has kept the notice
intact, and complied with the license, I see nothing sinister here.

If you want to download Lookout, go here:
http://www.lookoutsoft.com/Lookout/

or here (watch for link wrap) as an unsupported MS tool:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=09b835ee-16e5-4961-
91b8-2200ba31ea37&displaylang=en

Folks have been crying wolf since July about Lookout disappearing. Despite
all the dire predictions and anti-MS comments, it is still available. It was
unavailable for less than a week during the transition.

If you would rather not use lookout, there are others such as x1
(www.x1.com), and 80-20 Retriever (www.80-20.com)

Pete
_____________________________________________________
 Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
 Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
 (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

________________________________________
From: Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen [mailto:revbob@crispen.org]
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 5:25 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Lookout utility

The voices are telling me Dave Nelson said on 10/14/2004 12:35 AM:

My wife just installed something from microsoft called Lookout, which does
incredibly fast searches on MS Outlook files.  I tried +C&NW +Built and in
0.32 seconds found 76 hits in 6 folders that were hidden within 14,000

other

e-mails.  Very handy utility for searches.   Now if it would only let me

set

categories on the results....

Cute story here <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/07/19.html>
about Lookout.  As everybody knows who's tried to use the wretched
search built in to Windows Explorer or the miserable search engines on
MSDN, the knowledge base, and other places on microsoft.com, Microsoft
is about as clueless as it's possible to be about searching, and they
certainly didn't write Lookout.  They bought the company that did, and
for a while distributed it without charge.  Nice program.

Recently they ran into a problem.  Part of Lookout was distributed using
the Apache license, one of the more popular open source licenses.  Open
source is anathema to Microsoft, who have made their fortune from
selling their software to people like you and me.  In some cases, where
the license permitted it, they slapped their labels on free software and
sold it (there's a program that comes with every version of Windows
since time immemorial called ftp.exe; examine it with a hex editor or
the Unix "strings" utility if you doubt what I just said).  But the
Apache license forbids shenanigans like that, so Microsoft pulled Lookout.

No idea whether Microsoft put it back up or not.  Two things: if you
have Lookout now, make sure you make a good backup copy of the installer
just in case it stays missing (or disappears again).  And if you're
ready to make the switch away from The World's Most Dangerous Email
Program(tm), Mozilla Thunderbird has been ready for prime time for the
past couple of revisions, imho.

Only one problem: Mozilla's calendar still can't import data from
Outlook's calendar, but I imagine the bright folks at Mozilla will solve
that problem before long.

In the meantime, if you want a safer email program (with grown-up
mailbox and account management and adaptive spam filtering like Outlook
and Outlook Express would have had if Microsoft hadn't stopped all
development on them a couple of years ago) and can do without the
calendar for a while, Thunderbird is ready to run.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/