Geez, Tim, didn't know you were that much of a Sox fan...

Shawn Beckert

They ain't won the World Series, yet.

(VBG)
--
Brian Ehni

Tim "Everything changed on September 20, 2004" O'Connor

Oops. Make that October 20, 2004. I'm so elated I don't even
know what month it is.

Denny Anspach wrote

I have Safari and Mac OS 10.3.5 and I have no problems with
the F&C site.

Denny, this raises an interesting epistemological problem. How
do you KNOW you have no problems with the F&C site? Hmmmmm?

Tim "Everything changed on September 20, 2004" O'Connor

On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, at 05:59 PM, Jeff Lodge wrote:

The steamer is 452 on the 211 behind engine 1859 - date is 9/18/55. 
It is the last "car" on the train according to the list.

My Locomotive status dated November 15, 1954 shows 452 as "St Albans,
awaiting shop" -- I know she was shopped at least this time and
returned to service for almost 2 years before retirement.

 
The diesels were 8080 and 8081 on the 429, on 9/20/55.  Engines
9401/9404 were in charge.

The diesels were Alco switcher (S-4s) that were liklely heading to St
Albans for a rotation. 9401 abd 9404 were, as I'm sure you know, a set
of A-A CN C-Liners -- telling me this was likely freight 491.

Not that I've comleted any analysis, but would it be appropraite to
have some empty CV boxcars in CV yards "waiting" to be called to
action - or were they too busy hauling autos on the GTW?

I plan to have some. Also, one car that may not show up on the
switchlists or consist reports could be the LCL car -- almost all the
Southern Division wayfreights I've seen pics of have a 40000-series CV
boxcar that was used to service the many LCL customers along the route.

 
And another thing!!!!  Where are the 200 CV hoppers.  I can't remember
if I've seen any of them yet.  You would kind of think almost all the
hoppers on the line would be busy stocking up New England coal dealers
in September. 

The CV hoppers were used primarily in company service -- both MofW work
and hauling company coal (fuel) from the two larger facilities (WRJ and
St Albans) to New London, Burlington, and Palmer.

 
The Rutland car is 193, designated as a box with merchandise going
"West" (Not Canada or Montreal.  So I assume when they say West, they
are saying through Canada and back down into the states in/around the
midwest.)

That would be pretty close to my guess.

 
Many of the Southeastern cars seem to be loads going into Canada or
out west.  Was it cheaper for the Southern to ship some stuff way up
here, thorugh Canada and then back into the states? 
Geographically, for instance, Atlanta GA is on the "East Coast", but
it is due south of Columbus Ohio - clearly the midwest.  The CV is
very north and east of the Southern's territory.  Doesn't exactly ring
of "just in time delivery" does it?

No, but this was the era of aggressive railroad sales reps, and some
careful planning of backhaul. Lets look at this example. The rules of
service would require that Southern car to be returned to its home
rails empty under the same route it traveled -- share in the $$$ share
in the overhead -- UNLESS it could be loaded enroute to home as long
as this "by chance" trip didn't take the car out of its way.

Another consideration is the fact that although the trip may be longer
mileage wise than say heading to Chicago via the Southern's central US
connections, the freight agents may have wined and dined the shipper
and given him a great deal to get the business. If the load wasn't time
critical (only in today's age is anything more than a week considered
"way too long") who cares if it took 3 days or 10?

So, that SRR boxcar would carry a load into Canada and then possibly
down into Chicago -- and from there wherever it was going. Then it
would return home by the same route. Along the way it may well get a
load of newsprint, pulp, or whatever in Canada. Maybe the traffic
agents on the SRR knew this -- realizing that there is a better chance
of the car getting captured in Canada with a load -- and therefore more
revenue -- than it would be of getting a load on the CGW or PRR or
whatever.

Remember, the Canadian/US tariff laws also played into this (they
changed almost year to year) but not all CN or CP boxcars would be
eligible to haul freight into the US -- so an empty US road car sitting
available in Montreal is a great steal for the CN traffic agent trying
to find a way to ship a load of Christmas trees down south.

These guys weren't dumb, and they would often arrange car routings to
handle anticipated seasonal or regional traffic. You can bet that the
railroads in the granger belt held onto every 40-foot boxcar that could
be pressed into grain service starting several weeks ahead of the
annual harvest.

Getting back to the import laws from Canada into the US -- on the
equipment, not cargo -- even the CN diesels that pulled CV trains (and
GT/NE trains as well) were subject to strict import tariffs -- there's
even a few instances of CV steamers pulling broken down CN diesels back
across the border to prevent the engines from staying in the country
longer than 72 hours -- the limit at the time -- after that time the
railroad would have been charged an import duty on the locomotive.

These elaborate laws, and others like them, were also the reason the
CV, GT, GTW, and GT/NE all got their own locomotives and remained
"separate" from the CN. Also the reason some CP boxcars carried "IofME"
lettering. This is way to complex -- and not of sufficient interest to
me -- to explain in any further detail -- but knowing about it as an
issue may answer some of the weird stuff you see happening on those
train consists.

 
So far, only two BAR cars - both boxes.  What did Maine have that
Vermont didn't?  BAR hauled paper and/or trees and spuds.  Canada kept
the CV afloat with the paper traffic.  Don't know about how Vermont
got their potatoes, maybe these came from Canada too.

I have no idea where Vermont potatoes came from. I found my one SofMe
car --- so I'm all set!

Marty

Armand Premo asked:
"Where Can I get a list of all of their offerings?"

http://www.pocahontasmodels.com

Again, see Jim Brewer's original post #35068, October 20, 6:21 PM,
where he spelled out all of the information on his kits.


Ben Hom

Where Can I get a list of all of their offerings?A.Premo

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@i...> wrote:

....The computer business is viscous,

Uncured urethane resin is viscous. The computer business is vicious.
And so is Mike as this thread continues.....

Tom Madden

That all of the underbody equipment is on one side has always intrigued me, if only because of some weight imbalance that should be occurring. However, if memory serves (and it most assuredly does not very well at times), these cars came with removable dividers or similar that were "stored under the car". It occurs to me that here may lie the reason for the asymmetry- i.e. providing unencumbered space below a door for the dividers, which would I believe also tend to balance out the weight.

I hope I have this straight.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

As well as Internet Explorer 5. So it apparently only works with the

latest version(s) of Explorer<
Explorer is free as are most of the other browsers. However I feel as
you do. I kept IE 4 until nothing worked anymore and simple was told we
don't support it anymore. The computer business is viscous, they want
people to update every year or sooner and they don't came about backward
compatibility.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Not to be a curmudgeon or start a lengthy off-topic thread over the
merits of specific browsers, but the F&C site is obviously designed for
Internet Explorer users. The site is essentially unusable with both
Netscape 7.0 and Mozilla 1.7.2 . . .

You can add Safari to this list.

As well as Internet Explorer 5. So it apparently only works with the
latest veresion(s) of Explorer. Which I don't have because I'd rather
spend my $$ on N&W automobile car kits and such.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

I have Safari and Mac OS 10.3.5 and I have no problems with the F&C site.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

I just saw the notice for the new N&W boxcars ... too expensive
for me to even look at. At $45 for [a kit] the resin market gone
too far. This is $10 more then Westerfield and Sunshine.

As Tom Madden said, it depends on the production volume, and as Ted
implied, if etchings are included the value of the kit increases. The
resin market makes unique models available to us that we'd probably
never get from mass production. As far as I know Al Westerfield is
the only person who actually earns enough to live on! Martin has his
military retirement, and the smaller vendors all have other careers
and produce kits on the side. Ain't nobody getting rich from kits!
I will definitely get one of the N&W cars because they are distinctly
different looking than other freight cars. But then I put a high
value on variety.

Tim O'Connor
Sterling Massachusetts

P.S. Ok I'm calmer now... THE BAMBINO IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE SOX!

All:

I think that both Ted and Tom responded to this subject very nicely and I
wholeheartedly agree with them. I guess my point is this If you feel that a
given kit is over your budget that's fine, but we don't need to hear about.
There are more that a few of us that are delighted to get kits like this at
this price.

Lets keep the discussion to the kit not the price. The market will
determine if it is to high or in the ball park.

Paul C. Koehler

Not to be a curmudgeon or start a lengthy off-topic thread over the
merits of specific browsers, but the F&C site is obviously designed for
Internet Explorer users. The site is essentially unusable with both
Netscape 7.0 and Mozilla 1.7.2 . . .

You can add Safari to this list.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Walt Lankenau asked:
Which, and whose, N&W boxcars?

Pocahontas Models LLC HO scale kits of N&W Class B-4/4A 50' double
door boxcars. See Post #35068, October 20, 6:21 PM.


Ben Hom

Jerry Stewart writes:

Maybe I wrong here, but I though that the PFE R-40-14
steel refrigerator cars built by PC&F just prior to the start
of the WWII had wood running boards, not steel open grid
type when delivered? Perhaps Tony Thompson can help us here,
also it might be interesting to find out how may wood running
board SP 1937 AAR steel box cars delivered prior to the war
and 1940 were also delivered with wood running boards?

PFE tried out the Apex running board as soon as it came out in 1939 (on five cars of R-40-10) and must have been delighted, as the following class, R-40-14, was so equipped. See page 167, PFE book.
Tim has correctly answered the SP question.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Smith <wooddale@b...> wrote:

I just saw the notice for the new N&W boxcars. They are too

expensive

for me to even look at. At $45 for an unassemble kit has the

resin

market gone too far. This is $10 more then Westerfield and

Sunshine. I

know what is involved with getting a resin kit to market and the

costs

involved because I'm working with a company right now and doing

the

patterns for a new kit. Sorry guys but it is narrow gauge, which

has an

even more limited market then the N&W cars, and it won't be sold

for

anywhere near $45.

Sorry but this kit straps my budget so I won't be getting any of

them.

Would your opinion have been different if these particular cars were
on your "must have" list, or are you just commenting that $45 is too
much for a resin freight car, regardless? Al and Martin have
multiple offerings at all times, plus a pretty good feel for what
their markets are. Their production runs are "hundreds" and up.
Don't know what this new company intends regarding quantity, but I'd
certainly take it slow until I found out what the demand was - and
price the product so the break-even point was around 100 kits and I
could stay in business.

Personally, I think it's great that there's a market for more
expensive, limited run resin kits like these N&W offerings and Jon
Cagle's SC&F Harriman head end cars.

Tom Madden

Jim,

I'm interested in both your kits, especially the B-4A since
automobile boxcars are much needed on my railroad, but I do
have a concern.

The photos of your assembled B-4A seem to show the car sitting
rather high off the trucks:

http://www.pocahontasmodels.com/images/gallery/kit%20105/pages/105_B_4A_jpg.htm

Is this just an illusion, or maybe the car was just "perched"
on the trucks for the photo? It could be just my old eyes, but
the car looks way too high for comfort. Your thoughts?

Shawn Beckert

Which, and whose, N&W boxcars?

Walt Lankenau

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Smith <wooddale@b...> wrote:

I just saw the notice for the new N&W boxcars. They are too

expensive

for me to even look at. At $45 for an unassemble kit has the resin
market gone too far. This is $10 more then Westerfield and

Sunshine. I

know what is involved with getting a resin kit to market and the

costs

involved because I'm working with a company right now and doing the
patterns for a new kit. Sorry guys but it is narrow gauge, which

has an

even more limited market then the N&W cars, and it won't be sold

for

anywhere near $45.

Sorry but this kit straps my budget so I won't be getting any of

them.

Larry Smith