--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc."
<elden.gatwood@t...> wrote:

Tim;
If you have used them or are familiar with their offerings, do you

know who

makes good decals for UTLX, GATX, SHPX? I noted that my Sunshine

UTLX

decals are somewhat oversized.

Thanks!

Elden

I (Black Cat) make a GATX decal set that several on this list are
pleased with. The Sinclair set is in testing. I will have a UTLX set
eventually as well. Contact me off line to order.
Allen Ferguson

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Carlson <prrk41361@y...> wrote:

Tim, I looked at the list of stan's parts on Ted's Steam Era

Freight Cars website and it doesn't list these ends, do you have a
newer listing which shows these parts, or were just getting my hopes
up.

Brian carlson

Brian, Stan does sell these ends. I have built cars with both height
ends.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Tim, I looked at the list of stan's parts on Ted's Steam Era Freight Cars website and it doesn't list these ends, do you have a newer listing which shows these parts, or were just getting my hopes up.
Brian carlson

Brian, the list shows "Pullman Standard 5/5" and "4/5" ends... I think
those are the ends you're interested in.

Tim, I looked at the list of stan's parts on Ted's Steam Era Freight Cars website and it doesn't list these ends, do you have a newer listing which shows these parts, or were just getting my hopes up.

Brian carlson

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I never thought I'd see the day that I would have a resin kit
without a prototype. Thank you both for the info.
Regards, Ted Culotta

Ted, talking to people at Naperville I have come to realize that
MANY resin kits have no prototype, depending on what features you
are interested in. Many Sunshine kits have incorrect doors, ends,
underframes, and even car widths. If you want a lesson in this it
pays to visit Byron Rose's workshop and look at his couple dozen
corrected resin models. They are unpainted so you can see all of
the changes he's made -- to both Sunshines and Westerfields.

I think Stan sells both styles of Pullman end as separate parts,
so you can at least salvage your kit...

Tim O.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ben Hom wrote:
If it's a 33 ft IL car, it's only good for two roads: AA and WAB. These
cars were built new as panel-side cars in 1948. All other panel-side
cars were rebuilds of either USRA cars or earlier twins with lower
sides and box end sills similar to PRR Class GLa.

The section on Wabash hoppers by George Drake, Jr. in the _Wabash
Banner_ coal issue (No 23, Winter 1993) lists 4 series of Wabash panel
side hoppers. All 4 series have the same ORER dimensions: 33 ft IL, 9
ft 7 in IW, 10 ft 8 in to top of sides, and 2120 cu ft.
36000-36424 built in 1937
36500-36624 built in 1943
36625-36742 built in 1947
37000-37999 built in 1948-49

The Rail Craft O scale model is a model of these Wabash panel side
hoppers. It was advertised in the June 1939 MR, page 327, and in
several later Rail Craft ads. The model photo in these ads is lettered
WAB 36000.

I have posted a scan of the Rail Craft model in the files section. The
file name is _Rail Craft WAB 36000 hopper.jpg_ The builder didn't get
the lettering quite right, the rivets are quite oversize, and panel
shapes on the model are not quite right. Still, its not bad for a 65
year old model and the panels are three dimensional. The panel shapes
are clearly intended to be like those on the Wabash hoppers, rather
than like the panels typically used on rebuilds of USRA hoppers such as
P&LE lot 651-H and NYC 416414 that Ben posted.

I intend to use several of these Rail Craft panel side hoppers as
stand-ins for P&LE lot 651-H until a better model comes along. Rich
Yoder, are you listening?

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

I have a blister panel hopper, a USRA standard 7 rib hopper and a 65
ft. mil gon, all in HO from Railcraft and made from a zinc-like
metal.

I don't have it in from of me, but I believe that the panel hopper
is the same length as the USRA.

They are very nice for early HO but the corner posts on the hoppers
are very oversized, maybe 2mm wide. The rivets are comparable to an
Athearn 50 ft. hopper.

Ed

I have decided I don't need 6 of them, so...

FOR SALE :

THREE, BRAND NEW, Undecorated USRA 55 Ton Hoppers by Accurail. See this link for reference to the Seaboard model (the undecs have the same body color) :

http://accurail.com/accurail/art/2500/2541.jpg

Contact me DIRECT if interested. First come, first serve : RailScaler@...

Thanks.


John Degnan
RailScaler@...
From Railroading To Religion... John's World on the Web :
http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/welcome.htm

Jace Kahn wrote:
"My recollection from the discussion when I asked about other prototypes for
my Rail Craft 34' panel side twins (almost as old as your Walthers, but much
nicer) was that only Wabash had 34'; all other panel side twins were 30',
most of them rebuilds of older twins (especially USRA cars)."

Jace, the facts haven't changed since you asked this question in July - if
it's a 33 ft IL car, it's only good for two roads: AA and WAB. These cars
were built new as panel-side cars in 1948. All other panel-side cars were
rebuilds of either USRA cars or earlier twins with lower sides and box end
sills similar to PRR Class GLa.

As for Denny's model, I've uploaded a scan of the model (side by side with a
prototype photo) in question in the files section. I've asked Denny to
verify the IL of the model, as it does not appear to be a 33 ft IL car by
its proportions. It appears to be closest to the USRA rebuilds.

When you consider this model in the context of this hobby's history, several
interesting points jump out. First, it was produced as the railroads were
rebuilding their cars, making it akin to today's models of double stacks - a
contemporary model of "modern" rolling stock. Second, either the original
Walthers dies or a knockoff of them by Red Ball resulted in some form of
this kit being offered to this day. Red Ball offered a cast metal kit of
this car, which was offered by Wabash Valley during the 1980s before being
discontinued. These dies were then used to cast styrene sides which were
marketed as a conversion kit for use with the Varney/Life-Like twin. (These
sides are still available from Model Railroad Warehouse, if you can find
them on their abysmal website.) I've included in the photo comparison a
scan of a conversion that I started back at RPI that I might finish someday.
I didn't bother cutting out the sides, opting instead to sand the sides flat
and using the CCS sides as an overlay. This probably makes the car side too
thick, but that's not that big a problem given that the starting point is a
Varney model. The main fault of these models is that the panels are really
too shallow in relief. I still intend to finish this model, if only to add
to the collection of vintage HO.


Ben Hom

At a SWAG, I'd say "PABST"
--

Brian Ehni

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Walthers Panel Side Hopper Low Res (Denny Anspach).JPG
Uploaded by : benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Description : Early Walthers HO scale panel side hopper,with prototype comparison and later CCS model.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Walthers%20Panel%20Side%20Hopper%20Low%20Res%20%28Denny%20Anspach%29.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>

Dear A.T.
Apparently you didn't read my column in OST on RailCraft cars. Yes, RC made a KCS hopper-bottom gondola (I asked about them on the list a year or more ago after I bought my first model--I later found a second at a price I wanted to pay, although it needed a bit of work), but they ALSO offered the Erie highside gon, the MP panelside gon, and the T&P gon. In hoppers (assuming the KCS as a hybrid), they offered a modernized USRA twin, the N&W peak-end twin, and a 34' panelside (apparently good only for the Wabash). RC also offered a B&O flatcar and the "More Service" experimental/unique flat. There may have been other prototypes that I have yet to come across, but these are what I own, have owned, or found advertising evidence for.
Considering they date from ca. 1939, they were remarkably accurate for their day, and unlike many models pre-1970, were based on prototypes. And to repay all the other list contributors who go on at length about all the goodies available in HO, these were O scale only.

Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks/GTT


_____________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:07:48 -0000
From: "proto48er" <atkott@...>
Subject: Re: Erie Highside Gondolas


Jace - The old Railcraft tinplated steel scale car is an excellent
and accurate model of the KCS dump bottom gondolas built in about
1931. They had cast steel underframes and hoppers - cast in one
piece - and are all-welded cars. Plans and photos are in the 1931 CB
Cyc. They were painted black on the prototype. The "Underframes"
part of that cyclopedia also has a good photo of the rough casting of
the centersill/hoppers. It is a keeper!! A.T.

I have one of the old RailCraft metal cars in O scale (probably

older than I

am, which is saying quite a bit) that I have been holding off

finishing, as

the model has a solid bottom, and my understanding from the TSE

reprints of

the CBC is that the prototype had drop bottom doors. Are we

talking about

the same prototype here?
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Dear Denny
My recollection from the discussion when I asked about other prototypes for my RailCraft 34' panelside twins (almost as old as your Walthers, but much nicer) was that only Wabash had 34'; all other panelside twins were 30', most of them rebuilds of older twins (especially USRA cars). I wish I had better news, but I was not happy to hear it myself.
I shall not strip and reletter the D&H I've already done, but I'm stuck with two Wabash already, and I can't promise the fourth will not end up non-Wabash. If that costs me list membership, so be it.
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks/GTT

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:10:17 -0800
Subject: Early Walthers 8 raised panel 2 bay hopper.

I recently purchased a near-perfect assembled Walthers 34' HO hopper
in its original box. This was produced c. 1937-39, and was made of
thin lead castings mounted on wood blocks. the castings are neatly
soldered together. The slope sheets seem to be made of Strathmore. It
has 8 raised panels,and a vertical brake staff.

Does anyone have any idea as what the prototype might have been?

-

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California

_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Howard R Garner wrote:

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 04:56:03 -0600
From: Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
Subject: More photos

I'm sure this is old news, but there are some interesting photos in here...
http://content.lib.washington.edu/pickettweb/index.html

On the second page of GN photos, there are some nice GN truss rod box cars...
The next page has some FGE "boxcars"
other photos have some nice cars in there too - if you like GN electrics
(and steam) a nice site...

Any idea of whose reefer has the large billboard lettering on this photo

Pickett
<http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pquery.exe?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOFIELD1=negati&CISOBOX1=Pickett&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/pickett-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/search-templates/pickett-view.html&CISOROWS=2&CISOCOLS=3>
4909
<http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pquery.exe?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOFIELD1=negati&CISOBOX1=4909&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/pickett-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/search-templates/pickett-view.html&CISOROWS=2&CISOCOLS=3>


This was on the same thumbnail page as the FGE 'boxcars'

Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer????

Regards, Spen Kellogg

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 04:56:03 -0600
From: Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
Subject: More photos

I'm sure this is old news, but there are some interesting photos in here...
http://content.lib.washington.edu/pickettweb/index.html

On the second page of GN photos, there are some nice GN truss rod box cars...
The next page has some FGE "boxcars"
other photos have some nice cars in there too - if you like GN electrics (and steam) a nice site...

Any idea of whose reefer has the large billboard lettering on this photo

Pickett <http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pquery.exe?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOFIELD1=negati&CISOBOX1=Pickett&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/pickett-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/search-templates/pickett-view.html&CISOROWS=2&CISOCOLS=3> 4909 <http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pquery.exe?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOFIELD1=negati&CISOBOX1=4909&CISORESTMP=/search-templates/pickett-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/search-templates/pickett-view.html&CISOROWS=2&CISOCOLS=3>


This was on the same thumbnail page as the FGE 'boxcars'

Howard

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@s...> wrote:

OK - I understand the bulky details etc aren't pretty, but

supposing one went over this model replacing parts, is the basic
frame and tank/dome correct/tolerable? And for what era (1947???)

Rob Kirkham
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trix / Marklin Tankcars



Chwwwoock, ptoooey!

For minute there I thought maybe AHM had come back to life... but
that's being unfair to AHM.


>Looks like the Trix / Marklin tankcars are finaly available,

they

>have appeared on ebay in Germany.
>
>These are the only shots I have found so far of the actual models
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3765027561
>
>Ian Clasper



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Service.

As I recall, using Richard's article, I determined that I could use
one of those cars on my 1943 layout, another on my friends 1949
layout and would be unable to use the third since it was a later P/L
scheme. Unfortunately, Trix only wants to sell them in a set of
three, so I will pass.
Bill Williams

What did you expect, this is Marklin after all

Ian Clasper

At 40 bucks a pop (based on 3 car set selling on ebay for 90 euro,
converted to dollars at $1.3/Euro) , I think you will be a little
reluctant to buy these too kitbash.

Ian Clasper


--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@s...> wrote:

OK - I understand the bulky details etc aren't pretty, but

supposing one went over this model replacing parts, is the basic
frame and tank/dome correct/tolerable? And for what era (1947???)

Rob Kirkham
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trix / Marklin Tankcars



Chwwwoock, ptoooey!

For minute there I thought maybe AHM had come back to life... but
that's being unfair to AHM.


>Looks like the Trix / Marklin tankcars are finaly available,

they

>have appeared on ebay in Germany.
>
>These are the only shots I have found so far of the actual models
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3765027561
>
>Ian Clasper



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ADVERTISEMENT





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----------

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

Sharpies would be worse though, they are fairly

permanent.

Much less of a problem for those who prime.

Jim Eckman

On a sanded surface, maybe so, but on a glossy
surface, alcohol takes it OFF.

SGL

OK - I understand the bulky details etc aren't pretty, but supposing one went over this model replacing parts, is the basic frame and tank/dome correct/tolerable? And for what era (1947???)

Rob Kirkham

You might be able to remove the pencil marks with alcohol as well. It's a trick that works with wood, so it might work with plastic.

Jim Eckman

First sorry for quoting the whole list, I was away from home and using the lame net mail interface.

I tried the pencil with alchohol trick, it did not work on styrene, there was still a pale grey line left behind. This may be a problem for those like me who distress our styrene ahead of time and then don't prime it. I use thin coats of hand brushed acrylics and it telegraphs color changes from the substrate for at least 3 layers. I'm always hesitant to prime models, too much chance of filling in fine details.

Sharpies would be worse though, they are fairly permanent. Much less of a problem for those who prime.

Jim Eckman