Date   

P-S gondola end source

mopacfirst
 

Is there a commercial source in HO for the drop end gondola door with
Pullman-Standard style straight corrugations?

The P2K 'Greenville' cars that were made a few years ago had two different
door styles that were both dreadnought style. However several of the
prototypes that had been been built by P-S actually had the proprietary
three-rib style end door. At least RI and SLSF had cars with this style
of door.

These cars were covered in RMJ, January and November 1996.

Ron Merrick

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Re: USA boxes

Richard Hendrickson
 

Rupert Gamelin asks:

Did the Army also have reporting marks for non-captive service equipment or
did they use railroad owned equipment? Do the dimensions of the cars (inside
length of 36' 6", width of 8' 6", height of 7' 10" and a capacity of 2432
cu. ft.) match other Army boxes?
Yes, USOX, USQX, and CWSX, but in the 1940s they were applied to tank cars
and container flat cars, not box cars. However, AAR steel box cars were
built for the army before and during WW II which had USAX reporting marks
and were not listed in the ORERs. I have a photo of USAX 25617 which
appears to have been built to the same design as the B&O's M-55c class (7'
corrugated doors, flush riveted roof, 4-5 rectangular rib ends) except that
it did not have a Duryea underframe. And I also have a ca. 1947 photo of
USAX 242978, a 1937 standard AAR box car, stenciled "Leased to A.T.& S.F
Return to Richmond Calif. When Empty." This car carried "Dangerous"
placards, but chalk-marked on the side was "Hills Bros. Coffee." I have no
explanation to offer for any of this.

While writing the above, I remembered seeing a photo of an army box car in
the Morris Abowitz slide collection. I looked it up and I found a color
slide of a 36' wood sheathed box car stenciled with "USA" reporting marks,
a number that appears to be "830," and "Denver Ordnace Plant." The car was
painted light gray and had 7-7 inverse corrugated ends, steel underframe
with straight center sills, flexible metal-sheathed roof, and wood doors -
in short, construction typical of the WW-I /early 1920s era. What's more,
it appears to have had KC air brake equipment, not AB. I'm pretty sure
this must have been one of the cars that was listed briefly in the CB&Q's
ORER entries as being leased from the army. But here's the surprise; the
photo was taken at the SP's Taylor Yard in Los Angeles in - are you ready
for this? - 1961. Yet there is no reference to any cars with USA reporting
marks in any of the ORERs I have from the 1950s and early '60s. And
certainly this car was an anachronism by 1961, especially if I'm right
about the K brakes, which were outlawed in interchange after mid-'53. It
would certainly be interesting to know how this car got to LA in 1961, and
what the SP's car clerks made of it when they couldn't find it in the
register.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: How late did the XL last in interchange

Brian Carlson
 

Regarding the Ma &Pa XL's Al Westerfield mentioned to me that they stayed on the Ma &Pa and were not suitable for interchange, which explains them lasting as long as they did.

Brian Carlson



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.


Re: Flat cars

Michael Aufderheide
 

The Tichy 40 ft flatcar is an AC&F design built in 1923 for NC&StL;
however, you are mistaken concerning its lack of prototype appeal.
This model (and the Ertl model that models the same prototype) can be
also be used for CN, CP, DL&W, N&W, SP&S, SSW, and T&P.
Group,

Another use for these cars is to build Monon flats 7501-7510 which
were converted from low sided gons in 1945. Though few in number,
these cars were in wide circulation carrying larger finished limestone
pieces. Monon society member Chad Boas has made cast resin
replacement side and end sills for the conversion. I've got two of
these in progress now and they fall together easily. See:

http://www.chrispy.net/%7Ebuzzhos/boas.html

...scroll about 1/3 the way down.

Also on this page, see the bullseye gon ends that Mont Switzer used in
his recent Mainline Modeler article.

Regards,

Mike


Re: How late did the XL last in interchange

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Dec 5, 2004, at 5:47 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:

While I don't remember ever referring to PRR's XL boxcars specifically,
their destruction in the mid-late 1930's would have been in line with
other RR's practices. On December 31, 1928, there were 1,056,736 boxcars
on Class I RR's in the UP; on December 31, 1938, there were only 733,314
rostered - a decrease of 30.6%. On December 31, 1928, the PRR owned
92,034 boxcars; the equivalent number on December 31, 1938 was 74,512 -
a drop of only 19%.
During the period of these two dates, the Pennsy did scrap (or burn) vast numbers of XLs, but they also added many members of the X29 and X31 families plus the small (by PRR standards) number of X37s, which could have stemmed the drop compared to the industry as a whole.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: New (?) 36' box car from MDC

Charlie Vlk
 

Athearn is in Carson, CA, not Carson City, NV.
The old MDC facility is completely shut down.
They had two toolmakers. One (Robert Menteer, son of Clarence the founder
of MDC) is retired or starting a new career and the other is starting his
own mold shop making flat plate HO models.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Sunshine's vinegar car

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Dec 5, 2004, at 2:07 PM, pierreoliver2003 wrote:


List,
I'm about to commence building one of Sunshine's vinegar cars. I was
wondering if anyone had any advice/warnings about this kit. I like to
see the speed bumps before I hit them.
Pierre:

I am just finishing construction on mine and there are two things that I would recommend, besides just taking your time. The first is that in a effort to make a solid, true tank, I "squared" up the edges that are glued together to form the bottom of the tank. This involved filing off material until those edges would come together along a clean, square adjacent surface, as opposed to merely touching. Either I removed a LOT of material (I don't think I removed that much) or the variances in the casting process produced a tank that is not of great enough diameter to abut against all the tank saddles, once placed in the saddles. If I were doing it again, I would remove almost nothing when forming the tank and go for the maximum tank diameter. The second thing, and it's small, is that the instructions do not tell you that the "thin cast strip with large bolt heads on either end" that "fits into the top horizontal channel of the end frames" does have a correct and incorrect orientation. Those large bolt heads should angle upwards. Look at the parts and you'll see what I mean.

There is a lot of variation in this kit that makes it a little "sloppier" than I'd generally like. However, the overall effect of the model, which is really quite striking as I am sure you have gathered, renders most of the these little imperfections moot. I already know it's one of those models I will continue to enjoy for years, because it embodies everything that makes kit building so satisfying.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: BAR 2901 "State of Maine" reefers

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Steve Solombrino wrote:
http://photos.imageevent.com/up4479/trains/websize/bar2901.JPG
"I think there is a F&C kit that is a good starting point for a good
stand-in model (good enough at 3 feet, IMO). I have the decals.
Some day."

The F&C kit won't even give you that, as it models the BAR 61000-
61999 series SS Pratt truss boxcar:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/279-6550


Ben Hom


Re: A Different Kind of Resin Rut

ljack70117@...
 

On Monday, December 6, 2004, at 04:19 PM, dti_nut wrote:



Something I have found to be helpful, is when casting flat parts sucha
as doors - etc... is I only mix up enough to do the casting + 5-10% extra.

I mix the 2 parts well, pour into mold, and then use a toothpick and I
run it around the edges of the mold, or into any cavities where I
think air may be trapped to help get resin into the area, and release
air pockets. After wards, I level off the mold carfully, as to not
introduce new air pockets to the casting.

I have done this, and 90% of the time, I get good results.
90% of the time is probably OK for a hobby but if you are doing it for money It will KILL your profit.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
Tomorrow is an other day and we'll probably mess it up also.


Re: USA boxes

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

I forwarded the comments regarding the ownership of these 36' 6" cars by the
U.S. Army to the CB&Q List, and obtained a summary of military/ordinance
depots in CB&Q territory at or between which they might have been used.

Two comments received on the subject are particularly pertinent -

"The Army historically used what by many standards would be considered
outdated rolling stock (Navy & Air Force too for that matter).
However some were in captive service so they were not as worn out as one
might think considering their age."

"I guess that these box cars were "leased" by the CB&Q to as a convenient
way to allow them into interchange
service. There may have been a shortage of cars to haul ammunition, or
they may have had special equipment to haul particular items. I doubt that
they were released for general service. Normally such information is
listed in the ORER, but in this case they may have chosen not to publish the
information."

Did the Army also have reporting marks for non-captive service equipment or
did they use railroad owned equipment? Do the dimensions of the cars (inside
length of 36' 6", width of 8' 6", height of 7' 10" and a capacity of 2432
cu. ft.) match other Army boxes?

Regards

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Re: Steam & Air Piping On Express Box Cars

Ron Boham <spnut@...>
 

I _should_ have written: Train Shed #77. We have spell-checker; when are we gonna get proofreader?

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Boham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Steam & Air Piping On Express Box Cars



On page 7 of RPC, Volume 6, is a drawing which shows the AB-1-B air brake system components and plumbing arrangements (same drawing is on page 944, 1943 CBC, or TS #),


Re: Steam & Air Piping On Express Box Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ron Boham wrote:
On a converted car, such as the SP B-50-24s or B-50-12s & 13s, which hadn't been built or rebuilt that long before conversion, would the railroads rebuild them again to make all this extra piping fit?
The 50 cars of B-50-24 with passenger equipment were built that way, not rebuilt. I know of no B-50-12s or -13s used in express service (except on SPdeM), but you may mean the B-50-15s and -16s. Those were indeed modified to have full passenger piping of the standard arrangement. The Mechanical Department may well have felt that the savings in a "quickie" conversion would be outweighed by the later headaches of maintaining non-standard piping.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Steam & Air Piping On Express Box Cars

Ron Boham <spnut@...>
 

I am looking for a general arrangement drawing of an underframe for one of the box cars (any road) which was converted to express service with high-speed, better-riding trucks, and steam and signal lines added.

On page 7 of RPC, Volume 6, is a drawing which shows the AB-1-B air brake system components and plumbing arrangements (same drawing is on page 944, 1943 CBC, or TS #), but it does not show how it all fits in relation to the brake rods and levers, crossbearers, and center sill, and does not show the steam line. Regarding the steam line, it appears to be three-four inches ID, and must also cross the center sill to be on the proper side of the coupler at both ends.

On a converted car, such as the SP B-50-24s or B-50-12s & 13s, which hadn't been built or rebuilt that long before conversion, would the railroads rebuild them again to make all this extra piping fit? It occurred to me many of these cars by 1958-1960 were back on freight trucks in freight service, with all of the steam and signal lines removed, and I suppose converted back to a straight AB air brake system. Were the extra lines run with an eye to easy removal down the road?

If anyone can point me to an underframe drawing of an express box car in the trade or hobby press, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Ron Boham
Ralston, NE


Re: A Different Kind of Resin Rut

Charles Morrill <badlands@...>
 

Phil,
I ran into the bubble problem when doing sides etc. for an O scale caboose with the MM furnished resin. I tried another brand of resin with the same result. There is some kind of chemical action going on between the RTV and resin which is generating a gas. Moisture is often blamed and perhaps the RTV is drawing moisture from the air. The solution is Johnson & Johnson unmedicated baby powder. Do not use mold release. Instead, coat the mold with the baby powder and then tap to shake out all but a very thin coating of the powder.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "buchwaldfam" <duff@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] A Different Kind of Resin Rut




Gentlemen,

I have been trying unsuccessfully to cast some car sides, ends,
and roofs using Micro-Mark CR-600 resin. The stuff wets out the mold
well and has no visible air bubbles when first poured. Then it all
goes down hill.
First attempt, many bubbles formed after the resin was sitting in
the mold for a few minutes. The resulting castings crumbled when I
tried to de-mold them. The pieces that were large enough to see a flat
panel on were dimpled like the hood of a car which was left out in a
hail storm. The second attempt using warmed molds, and a third attempt
using a sample of resin which was baked prior to mixing ( to try to
remove any absorbed moisture.... taking a clue from the bubbles and
pourous finished product) per a suggestion on Alumalite's site, and
skipping the mold release after cleaning the molds, gave as bad or
worse results. Upon curing (or whatever you want to call the post-mix
results), the resin separates into a hard, crumbly portion and an oily
liquid portion.
Does anyone have any pointers for me? Or is this possibly just
bad material. If so, what other material do you recommend. I purchased
this stuff only because it was readily available through the mail and
I don't have a local supplier of urethane resin.

Thanks for any words of advice!

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald


Re: A Different Kind of Resin Rut

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Bruce,
Thanks for the reply.
Nope. I pulled the factory seals off of the bottles on Wednesday
when I attempted the first casting. The date on the bottle tops says
to use before August 3 2005.
In the FAQ page on Alumalite's site, they recommend baking the
resin at 250 F for two hours. I know, different brand and all, but i
did a small sample to try a pour. Didn't seem to harm the un-mixed
resin, but didn't help either.
Moot point, though... same results before and after baking.
Required steam era freight car content: It's really kind of
ironic! The car I'm trying to build is a USRA DS steel side rebuild
per CNW, CMO, and Rock Island. Between the various roofs and paint
jobs, I can count six variations. So I figured that i'd be time and
money ahead building from resin duplicates. By now, I could have had
all of the "flat kits" done in styrene and ready for final assembly.
Of course it IS fun just to try some new technique....

Regards,
phil Buchwald

Phil,

Has the resin been used before by you? The stuff does not have a great
shelf life. The bubbling problem sounds like moisture contamination in
the resin. AFAIK, heating the resin is not a great idea. To remove
mositure and gas, you would need to use a vacuum. I would try a new
batch
of resin.

I have had good success with Trainstuff's Railroad Resin
http://www.trainstuffllc.com/public_html/tips%20&%20clinics/Resin%20Clinic/railroad%20resin.htm

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: A Different Kind of Resin Rut

smithbf@...
 

Phil asks:
Does anyone have any pointers for me? Or is this possibly just
bad material. If so, what other material do you recommend. I purchased
this stuff only because it was readily available through the mail and
I don't have a local supplier of urethane resin.
Phil,

Has the resin been used before by you? The stuff does not have a great
shelf life. The bubbling problem sounds like moisture contamination in
the resin. AFAIK, heating the resin is not a great idea. To remove
mositure and gas, you would need to use a vacuum. I would try a new batch
of resin.

I have had good success with Trainstuff's Railroad Resin
http://www.trainstuffllc.com/public_html/tips%20&%20clinics/Resin%20Clinic/railroad%20resin.htm

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: How late did the XL last in interchange

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton wrote:

An article in the Dec 19, 1936 issue of Railway Age entitled

_Pennsylvania Railroad destroying 32,000 freight cars_ states that box,
hopper and gondolas were being destroyed and that 32,000 cars equaled
about 13% of the PRR freight car fleet.<<

Of course the XL numbers given for the period before the mass burning and
scrapping would reflect the total cars still being listed in the accounts,
not those actually in service.

I think it was Tim Gilbert who pointed out some while back that the great
majority of the XL fleet would have been sitting around in yards not going
anywhere once the depression began to bite, either bad ordered and not worth
repairing in that climate or simply not having any loads to move.


Aidrian,

While I don't remember ever referring to PRR's XL boxcars specifically,
their destruction in the mid-late 1930's would have been in line with
other RR's practices. On December 31, 1928, there were 1,056,736 boxcars
on Class I RR's in the UP; on December 31, 1938, there were only 733,314
rostered - a decrease of 30.6%. On December 31, 1928, the PRR owned
92,034 boxcars; the equivalent number on December 31, 1938 was 74,512 -
a drop of only 19%.

One reason for the decline in boxcars was due to the Depression; but,
the 1938 level of approx. 700,000 boxcars was maintained through out
World War II into the post-war era. The reason that this level could be
maintained with a minimum of car shortages was due to the improvement in
freight operations through investment in yards, track and signaling
during the 1920's which enabled more efficient car handling in 1930's
and later. Relics such as the XL's would not be needed even if and when
prosperity returned.

The Pennsy, however, were more prone to hold onto their relics longer
than many other RR's. This caused high unserviceable rates until the
Pennsy bit the bullet and scrapped obsolete cars. Between 1946 & 1951,
the boxcars which PRR owned fell from 79,475 on 12/31/1946 to 64,470 on
12/31/1951 - a 18.8% decrease. Meanwhile, the national total of boxcars
increased 1.0% from 728,463 on 12/31/1946 to 736,059 on 12/31/1951. I
believe in 1964, the Pennsy had another soul searching, but Elden
Gatwood is much more familiar with that than I.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Re: Sunshine's vinegar car

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 




List,
I'm about to commence building one of Sunshine's vinegar cars. I was
wondering if anyone had any advice/warnings about this kit. I like to
see the speed bumps before I hit them.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver
About 15 months ago, Bill Darnaby wrote on this list a truly classy syllabus on constructing this extraordinary model. I would not start to build the model without it in hand. My copy is on a hard drive I can only access each summer, but perhaps someone else on this list has a copy that he might be able to send to you.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


A Different Kind of Resin Rut

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Gentlemen,

I have been trying unsuccessfully to cast some car sides, ends,
and roofs using Micro-Mark CR-600 resin. The stuff wets out the mold
well and has no visible air bubbles when first poured. Then it all
goes down hill.
First attempt, many bubbles formed after the resin was sitting in
the mold for a few minutes. The resulting castings crumbled when I
tried to de-mold them. The pieces that were large enough to see a flat
panel on were dimpled like the hood of a car which was left out in a
hail storm. The second attempt using warmed molds, and a third attempt
using a sample of resin which was baked prior to mixing ( to try to
remove any absorbed moisture.... taking a clue from the bubbles and
pourous finished product) per a suggestion on Alumalite's site, and
skipping the mold release after cleaning the molds, gave as bad or
worse results. Upon curing (or whatever you want to call the post-mix
results), the resin separates into a hard, crumbly portion and an oily
liquid portion.
Does anyone have any pointers for me? Or is this possibly just
bad material. If so, what other material do you recommend. I purchased
this stuff only because it was readily available through the mail and
I don't have a local supplier of urethane resin.

Thanks for any words of advice!

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald


Re: Resin gold, The rut

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

To get an indication of what built kits are going for, visit my
website and look at the price sheet.
http://www.elgincarshops.com/
Now bear in mind that the prices for built items on E-Bay can
fluctuate wildly. I know of a fellow who sold a built resin kit on
E-Bay for over $100.00 one week and couldn't get $40.00 for a
similar
item the next week.
Pierre Oliver
Thanks for your answer Pierre. Your prices seem quite reasonable.
Clark Propst

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