Re: Populations vs. model numbers

Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>

At 06:37 PM 12/16/2004, you wrote:
Richard strongest point is...
Will a really good styrene model of a B&O wagon-top box car sell enough copies to even pay for the tooling? Nobody
knows, though sooner or later we'll probably find out - and the news may not be good.
I wonder about that. Will a Milwaukee Road Rib Side box sell enough copies to pay for the tooling? One would think that a B&O wagon-top could sell more than a rib-side.

Populations vs. model numbers

Greg Martin

Richard strongest point is...

Will a really good styrene model of a B&O wagon-top box car sell enough copies to even pay for the tooling? Nobody
knows, though sooner or later we'll probably find out - and the news may not be good.

Perhaps I know Richard better than most... I think it is will be a smashing hit and I think he thinks so as well.. I have to ask myself, "why did three producers look at the car before two back off?", simply because someone else got the drop on the other two... This car can satisfy two markets, the PAssenger car folks and the freight car folks... It stands a great chance...

"With regard to the 1932 ARA box cars, both Bill Schneider and Marth McGuirk have now weighed in on the list with admirable candor. Making such decisions is how these guys earn a (perhaps somewhat precarious) living. Anyone who wants to second-guess them deserves an award for valor."

Well, I may not be worthy of an award but I think if you separate the project into parts and realize that the tooling for the first one must pay for another, well, then the odds change. I remember sitting at dinner with a guy talking about a notion of doing Budd passenger cars... So you have to develop a marketing strategy and a plan and then work into that realm... But you have to know all parts of the puzzle first! I call it "baby steps". Then just as any market you learn to, "ride the wagon until the wheels fall off.." So would the "32" car work, I'd think so... Just remember, you may not want to be the first leg on the table, but you sure as H**l don't want to be the last...

"If you want to make a small fortune producing styrene models of 1932 ARA box cars, make sure you have a very large fortune to start with - and if a sizeable tax loss would be to your advantage, so much the better.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520"

I've seen this one before from Richard, but I also know he does think outside the box, althought he might not give that impression... 3^)

Now someone will ask me if I would put my money up for it? Well, if I could enjoy all the porfits from the project... Oops that the part they never want to share...

Greg Martin

Re: ARA 1932 box car book

buchwaldfam <duff@...>


Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Bill, why should you be any different? I'm looking forward to
seeing that tank car with TEXACO and MOBILGAS lettering. And if
you do the 1932 box car, please don't forget the RUTLAND fans!"

...or the PRR and NYC versions in 12 numbers!

Ben Hom

Jones door

jvanbu2003 <jvanbu1347@...>

What does a Jones door look like?

Re: Cyanopoxy

John Van Buekenhout <jvanbu1347@...>

What is the trade name for the product?

----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Culotta
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:07 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Cyanopoxy

I bought some cyanopoxy 3 years ago and finally had use for it this
week (it's hard to believe I haven't built a model with an etched metal
running board in over 3 years!) Anyway, I wanted to report that I am
sold on it. It worked extremely well and the etched metal is FIRMLY
attached to the model. Just thought I shared this for those debating
whether to take the plunge. I actually bought more with last week's
special that was announced here and am now glad I did.

Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
(650) 787-1912

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Re: ATSF stockcar

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>

Marty said "If you think the Santa Fe stockcar was an 'odd' choice . . . ."

Odd? I know not "odd." I see nothing odd about it.

Indeed, it was about time!

Happy holidays,


Re: CNJ 21000-21799 box cars

Richard Hendrickson

Iam Clasper writes, about the taller CNJ cars:

Brass models of these car keep on turning up on eBay, I beleave by

Are they accurate models of these cars ?
Ian, I have an old brass model by Oriental Ltd. that's basically correct
but very crude and requires considerable re-detailing to bring it up to
current standards.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

another new book

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>

A couple weeks ago I received a book in the mail. It's 'Industries along the tracks' by Jeff Wilson published by MR. The paper back book list for $20. I found two photos that are worth the price of the book. Awhile back I described in detail how bulk cement was loaded into a box car. In the chapter on grain elevators there's a photo of a man loading grain into a box car using the same apparatus they used to load cement. In the packing plant chapter there's a photo of cooling pipes inserted into reefer hatches. I'd hear a lot about this operation, but had never seen a photo.
Clark Propst

Re: CNJ 21000-21799 box cars

ian clasper <ianclasper@...>

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:

FYI, the other taller cars were a group of 200 ARA design auto cars
that the CNJ rostered as well.
Brass models of these car keep on turning up on eBay, I beleave by

Are they accurate models of these cars ?

Ian Clasper

Re: A-50-4 Reporting Marks was:Trix cars

Ian Cranstone

On 16-Dec-04, at 1:02 PM, Mike Aufderheide wrote:

The discussion of the A-50's reminded me of a question
I've been meaning to ask. I've built a Westerfield
A-50-4 which I had intended to letter for GTW. The
excellent data sheet pointed out that GTW leased these
cars from UP subsidary OSL during WWII, but it was
unclear when, if ever these went back to OSL or UP.
The cars did not appear in ORER data for GTW. Given
that this kit and its data sheet have been out a
while, I thought it would be prudent to ask if any
more information had come to light on these cars. The
date is important because I model '47-48.
If these are the cars I think you're referring to (former UP 160001-160600 & LA&SL 14001-14200), they did appear in GTW listings.

384 cars from the UP 160001-160600 became GTW 160001-160600 in 1937-38, and a few more followed in 1940-41 to make a total of 427. By 1947-48 their numbers were down to less than 100 cars with the final cars disappearing in mid-1949.

At the same time, 109 cars from the LA&SL 14001-14200 series became GTW 169000-169198, again with additional cars following in 1940-41 for a total of 156. By the beginning of 1947 65 cars remained in service, with the final cars disappearing in mid-1949.

Given that there was a gradual disappearance of cars from both series (rather than an abrupt disappearance), I'm inclined to think that these cars were simply retired and not returned.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada

Re: 1932 ARA Boxcars: An Anti-Contrarian View

Scott Pitzer

No, I don't think that would be playing fair. Maybe a C&O ventilator car (even the resin vent offerings don't include C&O.)
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: jaley <jaley@...>
Sent: Dec 16, 2004 1:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 1932 ARA Boxcars: An Anti-Contrarian View

I'm guessing that the car is either MOW or narrow-guage.

Re: 1932 boxcars and plastic models

Greg Martin

Ben writes in part...

"You would think that if "one road" PRR injection-molded models have a wide audience, comparable NYC models should do just as well. Unfortunately, the NYC crowd (with the
notable exception of Jeff English) either don't give a rats behind or can't get their heads out of a certain warm dark place enough to push their prototypes, which, by the way, we all need.

Ben Hom"

Ben, as we have said between ourselves, it isn't a matter of getting their prototypes produced... it's a more that once on the market they don't step to the plate and become buyers... I liken this to the PC modelers who begged to have the Walthers passenger cars P&L'd for them and then they never showed up to the party... GO FIGURE! And now they want the B60b in PC paint... hard sell, but you never know, could happen...

Maybe as Pennsy modelers and in some sarcastic way, we should get them done just so we can throw scale rocks at the cars as they roll by in PRR trains on our layouts... 3^)

Greg Martin

Hill Line HO Items Discounted

Andy Carlson

Thinning down some excess inventory. The following HO
items are all Brand New stock received from
distributors, and have never been on a retail shelf,
nor had any price stickers affixed.

LIFE-LIKE P2K Great Northern "Hustle Muscle" #400 EMD
SD 45 in Orange/Green. MSRP $140.00, I am selling my
last one for $95.00.

LL P2K Tidewater TWOX 1144 10K G Tank car kit
$6.00. I can sell a pair of different #s for

InterMountain Great Northern 12 Panel 40' boxcar Kit
in as delivered mineral red. Have 2 in different #s
for $10.00 ea.

Intermountain Great Northern 12 Panel 40' boxcar Kit
in Orange/Green Express scheme $12.00 (one)

Intermountain SP&S 12 Panel 40' boxcar $10.00 (1)

Branchline #1027 Northern Pacific 50' Single door 1955
repaint scheme of Green, NP1160....$10.00 (one)

Branchline #9013 SP&S 40' boxcar w/ "billboard" large
initials. This is from BL's limited run series. Have 4
different numbers. $10.00 ea. (Many)

Branchline #1106 SP&S 50' double door boxcar red 1957
delivery scheme. I have 5 different numbers for $10.00
ea. (5)

Branchline Great Northern 80' coach kits in dark
green, available in 3 #s. $29.00 ea (3)

Branchline Great Northern 80' coach kits in
Green/Orange, available in 3 #s $29.00 ea (3)

Branchline CB&Q 80' coach kits in Green, avail in 3 #s
$29.00 ea (3)

Accurail Great Northern Mineral Red Canton Twin
Hoppers. avail in 11 #s. $6.00 ea. (11)

Same, car GN73100 in Vermillon Red $6.00 (3)
Same, undec GN Twin hopper $5.00 (2)

Accurail GN 56042 Stockcar $6.00 (1)
Same, undec stock car $6.00 (2)

Shipping will be added to total. Contact me off-list
at < midcentury@... >

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Re: 1932 ARA Boxcars: An Anti-Contrarian View

jaley <jaley@...>

I'm guessing that the car is either MOW or narrow-guage.


On Dec 16, 1:34pm, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 1932 ARA Boxcars: An Anti-Contrarian View

Marty McGuirk wrote
...although it's a car that he,
Mike B., and every other UP and ATSF fan have ABSOLUTELY NO use for...

I love a challenge!! :o)
Hmmm, it's got to either be a
car built before 1860 (before either UP or ATSF existed) or a hopper

Hmmmmm.... I guess it could be a CABOOSE. Phooey.

Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Re: Intermountain speculation

Richard Hendrickson


Maybe Marty has become really brave and is going to offer a proper
General American 46' GS gondola, per D&RGW and WP? Perhaps it's the AC&F
cars built for the WP/TS/SN, or even riskier, the similar PS cars built
only for the WP?
In yer dreams, Garth.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: Trains Canada NSC Boxcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>

Brian Ehni asked:
"Walthers' site shows Herpa has announced new freight and passenger
cars. Delivery and price are both TBA. Does anyone here know
anything about them?"

The photos on the Trains Canada website make it tough to pick out
details, but these models appear to have 8 ft doors and PS-1 roofs.
Assuming these models have NSC-3 ends (the ends aren't visible in
the model photos), that makes them models of cars built by NSC and
ECC for CN and CP in 1956 and 1957. (I don't have the data on hand
to confirm the offered paint schemes or the E&N and TH&B models.)
See Stafford Swain's "Canadian National's 1937 AAR design 40-foot
steel boxcars" (RMC, August 1993) and Jim Little's "Canadian
Pacific's 40-foot steel boxcars" (RMC, October 1994) for specific
information on car series and appliances.

Ben Hom

Duplicates for Sale

Justin Kahn

I turned up several books and magazines in the course of my recent move; anyone interested, please contact me off-list; if you want several items, I expect I can do a bit better:

Drury, Historical Guuide to North American Railroads (1985 printing), good condition except for some creasing in spine and previous owner's embossed stamp on title page, $13

Gene Green's M&StL in Color (Morning Sun, 1996), very good condition, lacking dustjacket, $21

Maywald, Classic Freight Cars, vol #10, work train equipment, $11

C&NW Northwestern Lines: summer 1995 (farewell issue), spring 1996, summer 1997, spring 1998, summer 1998, summer 1999, $2.50 each, quantity prices negotiable

New Haven Shoreliner: vol 16, #2; vol 21, #1; vol 21, #2; vol 27, #2; vol 28, #2; $3 each, all for $12.
Shipping extra.

Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

Re: Intermountain speculation

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>


Maybe Marty has become really brave and is going to offer a proper General American 46' GS gondola, per D&RGW and WP? Perhaps it's the AC&F cars built for the WP/TS/SN, or even riskier, the similar PS cars built only for the WP?

We WP fans would be happy to have a string of these, any of these, and even in resin.

And by the way, the UP also had some 46' GS gons. I've never seen a picture or diagram. Does anyone know if they matched any of the above designs?

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

Re: 1932 ARA Boxcars: An Anti-Contrarian View

Mike Brock <brockm@...>

Tim Gilbert writes:

"Nonsense - at least in the UP Wheel Reports that I have parsed. Each had
one N&W Hopper, while all had no ATSF Stock Cars."

Hmmm. No mention of my tardiness with copying my frt conductor book. Honest, I was making copies when hurricane Frances forced us to evacuate. As soon as Prototype Rails is over I'll get back on it. Promise.


Re: ATSF stockcars off line


On Thursday, December 16, 2004, at 02:11 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Marty McGuirk writes:

Mike Brock writes:
Hmmm. Did Santa Fe stock cars run much on UP rails?

I'm sure they did . . . I've got a picture here somewhere . . . . ah,
there it is. Yup, Sherman Hill, ATSF stockcars right behind that string
of N&W hoppers . . . .;<)!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I now await the punishment of the list owner . . . .
Hmmm. The penalty is to produce nice models of Santa Fe stock cars...because your gracious host is....a closet Santa Fe modeler [ keep that quiet ]. BTW, if Santa Fe reefers...and I am aware that an entire string of such cars...ran on UP tracks, surely stock cars did as well. I else did cattle from Borger get to Buford? And, if a Pennsy stock car can grace the rails at Sherman, surely Santa Fe cars can.

Mike Brock
Yes a Santa Fe stock car would show up on the UPRR at Salina Ks every once in a while. It would usualy be MTY on it's way back to the Santa Fe.
In the spring cattle would show up in all different road's cars at Emporia Ks on the Santa Fe. They were headed for the flint hills west of Emporia for a summer of grazing on the best and greenest grass there is. These hills have never been touched by a plow. In the fall these cattle would go to feed lots to be "finished" for the market.
While the arrived in cars from many roads, they usually left in Santa Fe cars. Some of them went to the UPRR among other roads. So yes you would see them on the UPRR. But they were never with any N&W hoppers and I do not think they ever went as far west as Sherman Hill.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
I do not care who you are fat man. Get that sleigh and reindeer off my roof.

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