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Re: 1932 ARA Boxcars: A Contrarian View

Pete Brown &#92;(YahooGroups&#92;) <YahooLists@...>
 

Different ends, and in the case of the WM (4th largest number built and
surviving) the cushioned frame, custom ladders and stirrup steps, and roof
that (I believe) was different from many of the others.



You'd have to have one heck of a kit made to cover even the largest
purchases.



But if you had to pick just one, I'd say to pick the WM <g>



Ted, great book, BTW. I've only read the WM bit and the opening section so
far, but plan to hit others as motivation hits :-)



Pete



_____________________________________________________
Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
(wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)



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From: David Soderblom [mailto:drs@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] 1932 ARA Boxcars: A Contrarian View



I just got Ted's book today and did some elementary statistics to
assess whether or not a styrene model of this car had commercial
potential. I claim no knowledge of the business, but off the
following:

First, a recap of their population in the 5301 ORER:

Road Series No. blt. No. in 1953

BAR 65000-65649 650 645
C&O 7000-7649 650 632
CG 4000-4499 500 488
CGW 89000-89998 500 487 Note 1
CP 225000-225699 700 690
CRR 5000-5249 250 246
D&H 17626-17725 100 99
ERIE 76500-76999 500 488
GM&N 6400-6549 150 147
L&A 15000-15150 150 148 Note 2
MEC 4248-4999 754 736
MP 30000-32499 2500 2461
I-GN 17001-17300 300 296
M-I 4000-4249 250 249
NOT&M 17301-17500 200 197
NC&StL 18000-18499 500 482
NKP 13000-13499 500 482
NS 25000-25499 500 488
NdeM 60000-61299 1300 1240
SAL 17000-18999 2000 1898
SOO 41800-42798 500 492
SOO 135800-135998 100 98
UP 182500 1 1
WRT 900-919 20 20
WM 27001-28200 1200 1181

Note 1: Series numbers in book's table wrong? Last should be 89999?
Note 2: Series numbers in book's table wrong? First should be 15001?

1. Total number of cars built = 14,725. Number remaining in 1953 is
14,391, or 98%, an excellent survival rate.

2. Of these, 4,305 were built with 9-4 IH and 4/4 ends, representing 12
roads (I'm counting the MP variants as separate). Another 1,700 were
built with 9-3 IH and 4/4 ends, and another 2,400 with 9-1 IH and 4/4
ends.

Observations:

I don't know all the design variations involved yet since I just got
the book, but if it's the ends that matter most, there are a
significant number of variations that can be built as
true-to-prototype.

Second, many of these roads are actually very popular among modelers
and, most importantly, modelers like to see variety in their trains,
especially colorful paint schemes (members of this list, I claim, are
*not* immune to this; how else could Martin ever hope to sell Warrior
River boxcars?). How many other valid models do we have for many of
these roads?

My conclusion is that the 1932 ARA boxcar, at least with 4/4 ends,
could well be marketable.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD


Re: Tank Car ID Help Needed

Richard Hendrickson
 

http://home.comcast.net/~sseders/tankcar.html

I am cerebrally challenged when it comes to tank cars. Can anyone tell me
who this car belongs to? Any info would be of great help.
Looks like a Dow Chemical tank car. The Ohio, Kanahwa and
other river valleys in that region had (still have) lots of
chemical plants. Judging by the type of car (insulated 103)
I would guess it's for sodium carbonate or sodium hydroxide,
two common industrial chemicals.
Tim is correct that this is a Dow Chemical Co. tank car, in this case a 10K
gal. ICC-104 (or insulated ICC-103, which amounts to the same thing) built
in the 1920s by the Standard Tank Car Co. - note the distinctive sloping
box bolsters.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Tank Car ID Help Needed

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

On Dec 17, 2004, at 8:07 AM, Scott Seders wrote:


Following is a link to my personal web page.

http://home.comcast.net/~sseders/tankcar.html
<http://home.comcast.net/%7Esseders/tankcar.html>

I have uploaded an enlarged portion of a photo taken in August, 1956
of an
empty hopper train departing Grafton, WV on the B&O. Unfortunately,
the
original photo is not very sharp. At the front of the train is a
tank car.
All that is visible is the shape and color of the lettering and logo.

I am cerebrally challenged when it comes to tank cars. Can anyone
tell me
who this car belongs to? Any info would be of great help.
Ted Culotta replied:

Scott:

It looks to me like a Dow ICC 104 insulated car, but that's a guess
based upon the shape of the emblem.
In the April 1955 ORER, the only Dow cars listed were from their Texas Division (128 cars - all ICC-103's having five or six digit numbers) and 3 cars from their Canadian Division based in Vancouver BC.

Another guess based upon the shape of the emblem would be the Diamond Alkali Company but most of these 237 cars were intended for chlorine, vinyl chloride or methyl chloride - ICC types 105 & 106. I believe that tank cars carrying chlorine did not have expansion domes so that should shoot down Diamond as the owner as a possibility.

It is possible, however, that either Dow or Diamond leased long term this car from one of the private tank car leasing companies such as GATX, SHPX, or, maybe UTLX - UTLX had just got into the chemical car leasing business in 1952-53.

Can anybody recall a company with a diamond logo which would be used on tank cars?

Tim Gilbert


Re: Tank Car ID Help Needed

Tim O'Connor
 

http://home.comcast.net/~sseders/tankcar.html

I am cerebrally challenged when it comes to tank cars. Can anyone tell me
who this car belongs to? Any info would be of great help.
Looks like a Dow Chemical tank car. The Ohio, Kanahwa and
other river valleys in that region had (still have) lots of
chemical plants. Judging by the type of car (insulated 103)
I would guess it's for sodium carbonate or sodium hydroxide,
two common industrial chemicals.


Re: Tank Car ID Help Needed

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Dec 17, 2004, at 8:07 AM, Scott Seders wrote:

Following is a link to my personal web page.

http://home.comcast.net/~sseders/tankcar.html

I have uploaded an enlarged portion of a photo taken in August, 1956
of an
empty hopper train departing Grafton, WV on the B&O. Unfortunately,
the
original photo is not very sharp.   At the front of the train is a
tank car.
All that is visible is the shape and color of the lettering and logo.

I am cerebrally challenged when it comes to tank cars.  Can anyone
tell me
who this car belongs to?  Any info would be of great help.
Scott:

It looks to me like a Dow ICC 104 insulated car, but that's a guess
based upon the shape of the emblem.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Tank Car ID Help Needed

Scott Seders
 

Following is a link to my personal web page.

http://home.comcast.net/~sseders/tankcar.html

I have uploaded an enlarged portion of a photo taken in August, 1956 of an
empty hopper train departing Grafton, WV on the B&O. Unfortunately, the
original photo is not very sharp. At the front of the train is a tank car.
All that is visible is the shape and color of the lettering and logo.

I am cerebrally challenged when it comes to tank cars. Can anyone tell me
who this car belongs to? Any info would be of great help.

Thanks,
D. Scott Seders


Re: Sunshine Wabash Gondola

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

Thanks Chet. "Follow the Flag".

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: Sunshine Wabash Gondola

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "wabash2813" <vbaird@t...> wrote:

I'm in the process of ordering three of these puppies and a number
of
other forty foot gondolas.<snip>
The data and photos that came with the order
form has me a little confused. It says the cars were painted black
but the photo, though B&W, seems to suggest otherwise.

What is the correct scheme fo the early 1950's? OK, so lettering
size
and color changed depending on the time period but what's correct
for
my time period?

Victor,

Wabash steel gons were painted black including trucks. White paint
or stencil paste was used for the lettering. The lettering size
never changed on the 40' gons. Earlier Wabash composite gons were
painted freight car red and this color was also used on the 11300-
11999 series 52'-6" Bethlehem gons purchased from the CNJ in 1962.
Several other 52'-6" gons were repainted FCR during the 1963-64
period.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: A-50-4 Reporting Marks was:Trix cars

Michael Aufderheide
 

Ian,

Thank you for the information. That is a lot of
"light" to shed.

Regards,

Mike



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Sunshine Wabash Gondola

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

I'm in the process of ordering three of these puppies and a number of
other forty foot gondolas. Hopefully we'll get some more steam
era "forty foot" permeations and combinations as time goes by.

Anyway, here's my quesiton. I suppose Chet French would be able to
answer this the best. The data and photos that came with the order
form has me a little confused. It says the cars were painted black
but the photo, though B&W, seems to suggest otherwise.

What is the correct scheme fo the early 1950's? OK, so lettering size
and color changed depending on the time period but what's correct for
my time period?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: Early '50s C&S Denver yard photo

Walter M. Clark
 

<snip>I wonder if Byron is a nut case because he's such a good modeler, or
vice-versa?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Richard-

I hope the good modeling follows being a nut case because I've got the
first step nailed.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: "Prototype Model Railroading"

Walter M. Clark
 

<snip>It will not be published on any set schedule, but I am toying
with the idea of offering something like a three volume package or
something similar after that was suggested by someone off line as a
means to lower my overall costs and save buyers a couple bucks per
volume in the process. I will see if it is feasible, given the
inherent issues with taking money when people may not see the final
fruits of that money for up to 12 months. Regardless of how it is
sold, I will make an announcement when publication is imminent. The
first volume won't be ready until the February timeframe.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
Ted-

Considering the machinations I went through after I joined this list
and managed to get the back issues of RPC I'd be happy to pay for
three or four issues, in advance, so I'd know I wouldn't miss an
issue. And, if something happens before I get all the issues I'd paid
for my heirs could console themselves by reading the rest of the
issues as they come in <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: Populations vs. model numbers

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Richard:
Will a really good styrene model of a B&O wagon-top box car
sell enough
copies to even pay for the tooling? Nobody knows, though sooner or
later we'll probably find out - and the news may not be good.
Bob Webber:
I wonder about that. Will a Milwaukee Road Rib Side box sell
enough copies to pay for the tooling? One would think that a
B&O wagon-top could sell more than a rib-side.

I think that's a no-brainer. And I bought ribsides.

SGL


reefer question

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi Guys

I have been wondering about this for a while. I have seen a cutaway of an
average wood reefer. I am wondering why the large ice blocks don't crash
straight through the floor when dropped from icing platform to charging the
icing bunker?

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


Re: Populations vs. model numbers

Greg Martin
 

Bob Webber ask...

"I wonder about that. Will a Milwaukee Road Rib Side box sell enough copies to pay for the tooling? One would think that a B&O wagon-top could sell more than a rib-side."

I would say it could if they did a better job of marketing... The demand is there and so is the market. I know for a fact that 5th Ave. Car Shops is goingback to the hopper for more with different numbers.

Some changes would likely have to be made... Like take the tooling to China, offer the kit built-up and correct some tooling flaws... and here's the YIKES offer it in every MILW paint scheme that would fit on the car even if it is BOGUS... or keep the tooling as is and continue to offer it to the market for the next 40 years, like MDC's car...

Our market is relatively small and we are a great test market but with the above changes the car's tooling will pay...

Greg Martin


Re: ARA 1932 box car book

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Phil Buchwald asked:
"X32?"

No. PRR 36986, Class X35:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x35.gif&fr=cl

Class X32 is the 50 ft round roof automobile boxcar (no end door):
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X32


Ben Hom


Re: Populations vs. model numbers

Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
 

At 06:37 PM 12/16/2004, you wrote:
Richard strongest point is...
Will a really good styrene model of a B&O wagon-top box car sell enough copies to even pay for the tooling? Nobody
knows, though sooner or later we'll probably find out - and the news may not be good.
I wonder about that. Will a Milwaukee Road Rib Side box sell enough copies to pay for the tooling? One would think that a B&O wagon-top could sell more than a rib-side.


Populations vs. model numbers

Greg Martin
 

Richard strongest point is...

Will a really good styrene model of a B&O wagon-top box car sell enough copies to even pay for the tooling? Nobody
knows, though sooner or later we'll probably find out - and the news may not be good.

Perhaps I know Richard better than most... I think it is will be a smashing hit and I think he thinks so as well.. I have to ask myself, "why did three producers look at the car before two back off?", simply because someone else got the drop on the other two... This car can satisfy two markets, the PAssenger car folks and the freight car folks... It stands a great chance...

"With regard to the 1932 ARA box cars, both Bill Schneider and Marth McGuirk have now weighed in on the list with admirable candor. Making such decisions is how these guys earn a (perhaps somewhat precarious) living. Anyone who wants to second-guess them deserves an award for valor."

Well, I may not be worthy of an award but I think if you separate the project into parts and realize that the tooling for the first one must pay for another, well, then the odds change. I remember sitting at dinner with a guy talking about a notion of doing Budd passenger cars... So you have to develop a marketing strategy and a plan and then work into that realm... But you have to know all parts of the puzzle first! I call it "baby steps". Then just as any market you learn to, "ride the wagon until the wheels fall off.." So would the "32" car work, I'd think so... Just remember, you may not want to be the first leg on the table, but you sure as H**l don't want to be the last...

"If you want to make a small fortune producing styrene models of 1932 ARA box cars, make sure you have a very large fortune to start with - and if a sizeable tax loss would be to your advantage, so much the better.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520"

I've seen this one before from Richard, but I also know he does think outside the box, althought he might not give that impression... 3^)

Now someone will ask me if I would put my money up for it? Well, if I could enjoy all the porfits from the project... Oops that the part they never want to share...

Greg Martin


Re: ARA 1932 box car book

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

X32?

Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Bill, why should you be any different? I'm looking forward to
seeing that tank car with TEXACO and MOBILGAS lettering. And if
you do the 1932 box car, please don't forget the RUTLAND fans!"

...or the PRR and NYC versions in 12 numbers!


Ben Hom


Jones door

jvanbu2003 <jvanbu1347@...>
 

What does a Jones door look like?

158161 - 158180 of 194713