Date   
casting parts

Charles Dean
 

Richard,

I'd like to echo Rob's comments below.... there are several tank car parts that I would like to have cast in brass (rather than resin)....

Charles Dean
Shelbyville, Kentucky

p.s. Had to cancel flying the Arrow yesterday because of rime ice below 10K. :-(

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:27:39 -0800
From: Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Subject: lost styrene casting

Richard, I wonder if you might say a little more about this approach to getting parts. I've actually been thinking about brass castings for some parts I want to model. In my area I know there are folks who cast for jewelers, but of course they are used to wax. I had thought I was going to have to learn a whole new skill carving wax patterns. But I take it from your experience the jeweler's casters are able to burn out styrene and shoot brass castings in same way as lost wax. Do you have a sense of the minimum numbers required to make this a feasible project from a money/time point of view? And what about delicacy of the masters and the brass castings? Does the casting process tend to render the brass version slightly smaller than the styrene masters?

Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Grabs


>So, looking to improve the MILW rib-side cars, I've scraped off the
>'shelves' on
>the left end of the sides, to replace them with some proper grabs.
>
>I have some left over from Branchline kits, and some from other kits
(don't
>recall) and I also have some Details Associates bracket grabs (FC6209).
>
>The first two scale out 16" between the brackets, the DA grabs at 20".
OK so
>I'm obsessing of .023" here, but which is right? Or righter?
>
>Before cutting them off those shelves (the cast-on grab representations)
>measured .230" o.a. length, which would include the brackets. The
Branchline
>and ??? Versions measure about .243", and the DA grabs about .275". It
>appears
>to me that the Branchline grabs are best.
>
>Opinons?

I agree with your conclusion. The DA grabs, whle very nicely made, are too
long; the grabs on most steel box cars of the steam era were 18" on centers.

>And why doesn't somebody make these in brass? Or do they, and I haven't
found
>them yet?

Well, it's been done, but not for sale. Years ago, Dennis Storzek and I
bought a whole bunch of Intermountain bracket grab iron sprues and used
them as "lost styrene" patterns for brass castings. We each got what is
probably a life time supply - and, to answer the obvious question, no, you
can't have any, though if you know of someone who does lost wax casting for
jewelry and such, you could do the same thing yourself.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: MILW ribsides

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

The only online photos of the earlier ribside cars I've found are on the
NEB&W website (I think there's ONE on the Fallen Flags site as well).

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu
www.rr-fallenflags.org

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:schuyler.larrabee@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] MILW ribsides

There's a few shots of these cars on Elwood's Fallen Flags site, but are
there some other shots somewhere else on line? In particular, the versions
modeled by "Rib Side Cars"?

TIA
SGL

Re: decaling Westerfield models

eabracher@...
 

In a message dated 12/20/04 6:05:59 AM, ljack70117@... writes:


When they say pure water today
they mean it has less than what the government says is allowed.
the electronic industry uses PURE water in the manufacture of chips here in
San jose.

eric

Re: lost styrene & wax casting

ljack70117@...
 

On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 06:38 AM, Bill Lane wrote:


Rob & list,

I can HIGHLY recommend Valley Brass and Bronze for all of your brass casting
needs. If you make a plastic master, a mold can be made to make multiple
pieces instead of burning them on a 1 for 1 basis. You can also convert
commercially available plastic parts to brass. There is no shrinkage
I must correct this one statement. There is always shrinking in brass investment casting. It is 1 1/2%. Melted brass always shrinks I cast brass for 20 years and it always shrinks


David is fast (about a 1 month turnaround) and his casting quality is great.

Valley Brass & Bronze
7070 N. Harrison
Pinedale Ca 93650
559-439-0419

As much as I like David, because he is a one person company, he rarely calls
you back if you leave a message. Just keep trying........

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
It is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day basis.

Re: MILW STEEL BOXCAR AT UNION, IL

salemoryga <bugsy451@...>
 

The car at Union is MILW 19331, Blt 1940. per the IRM roster.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


--- In STMFC@..., "" <ZOE@I...> wrote:
GROUP:

Could some one tell me what the car number is on the MILW
horizontal rib
boxcar that is preserved at Union, IL.

Thanks in advance, Mont Switzer

Re: MILW STEEL BOXCAR AT UNION, IL

kevinhlafferty <KevinHLafferty@...>
 

Mont,

It's 19331. Blt 1940.

Kevin Lafferty


--- In STMFC@..., "" <ZOE@I...> wrote:
GROUP:

Could some one tell me what the car number is on the MILW
horizontal rib
boxcar that is preserved at Union, IL.

Thanks in advance, Mont Switzer

lost styrene & wax casting

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Rob & list,

I can HIGHLY recommend Valley Brass and Bronze for all of your brass casting
needs. If you make a plastic master, a mold can be made to make multiple
pieces instead of burning them on a 1 for 1 basis. You can also convert
commercially available plastic parts to brass. There is no shrinkage

David is fast (about a 1 month turnaround) and his casting quality is great.

Valley Brass & Bronze
7070 N. Harrison
Pinedale Ca 93650
559-439-0419

As much as I like David, because he is a one person company, he rarely calls
you back if you leave a message. Just keep trying........

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957

Re: decaling Westerfield models

ljack70117@...
 

On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 12:12 AM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:


Rich Townsend, who's obviously been here, writes:

Obviously you're not using water from Lithia Park!
No, Lithia water is strictly a curiosity for the tourists (for the
uninitiated, Ashland was at one time promoted as a spa community owing to
the water - full of bad tasting minerals - that flows out of natural hot
springs). At one time it was piped to the railroad station, when there was
a railroad station, but AFAIK it was never shipped out in rail cars like
Shasta water, Arrowhead water, etc. (obligatory FC content).

Our city water is snow melt from the Siskiyou Mountains - pure as the
driven snow, or pretty close to it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
I read some where (do not remember where) but there is no pure water left on the surface of the earth. You may find some from under ground springs or from wells around Abilene Ks where it passes through 50 feet of sand. Even the snow and water on mountain tops are now polluted. The garbage comes out of the polluted air. When they say pure water today they mean it has less than what the government says is allowed.
Even the bottled water you buy in the stores is not pure. Out of all the bottled water they tested over 60% of the companies were using straight tap water. This report was not from before the 50s but I read it in the last 15 years.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
I do not care who you are fat man. Get that sleigh and reindeer off my roof.

lost styrene casting

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Richard, I wonder if you might say a little more about this approach to getting parts. I've actually been thinking about brass castings for some parts I want to model. In my area I know there are folks who cast for jewelers, but of course they are used to wax. I had thought I was going to have to learn a whole new skill carving wax patterns. But I take it from your experience the jeweler's casters are able to burn out styrene and shoot brass castings in same way as lost wax. Do you have a sense of the minimum numbers required to make this a feasible project from a money/time point of view? And what about delicacy of the masters and the brass castings? Does the casting process tend to render the brass version slightly smaller than the styrene masters?

Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Grabs


>So, looking to improve the MILW rib-side cars, I've scraped off the
>'shelves' on
>the left end of the sides, to replace them with some proper grabs.
>
>I have some left over from Branchline kits, and some from other kits (don't
>recall) and I also have some Details Associates bracket grabs (FC6209).
>
>The first two scale out 16" between the brackets, the DA grabs at 20". OK so
>I'm obsessing of .023" here, but which is right? Or righter?
>
>Before cutting them off those shelves (the cast-on grab representations)
>measured .230" o.a. length, which would include the brackets. The Branchline
>and ??? Versions measure about .243", and the DA grabs about .275". It
>appears
>to me that the Branchline grabs are best.
>
>Opinons?

I agree with your conclusion. The DA grabs, whle very nicely made, are too
long; the grabs on most steel box cars of the steam era were 18" on centers.

>And why doesn't somebody make these in brass? Or do they, and I haven't found
>them yet?

Well, it's been done, but not for sale. Years ago, Dennis Storzek and I
bought a whole bunch of Intermountain bracket grab iron sprues and used
them as "lost styrene" patterns for brass castings. We each got what is
probably a life time supply - and, to answer the obvious question, no, you
can't have any, though if you know of someone who does lost wax casting for
jewelry and such, you could do the same thing yourself.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Re: decaling Westerfield models

Richard Hendrickson
 

Rich Townsend, who's obviously been here, writes:

Obviously you're not using water from Lithia Park!
No, Lithia water is strictly a curiosity for the tourists (for the
uninitiated, Ashland was at one time promoted as a spa community owing to
the water - full of bad tasting minerals - that flows out of natural hot
springs). At one time it was piped to the railroad station, when there was
a railroad station, but AFAIK it was never shipped out in rail cars like
Shasta water, Arrowhead water, etc. (obligatory FC content).

Our city water is snow melt from the Siskiyou Mountains - pure as the
driven snow, or pretty close to it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: Grabs

Richard Hendrickson
 

So, looking to improve the MILW rib-side cars, I've scraped off the
'shelves' on
the left end of the sides, to replace them with some proper grabs.

I have some left over from Branchline kits, and some from other kits (don't
recall) and I also have some Details Associates bracket grabs (FC6209).

The first two scale out 16" between the brackets, the DA grabs at 20". OK so
I'm obsessing of .023" here, but which is right? Or righter?

Before cutting them off those shelves (the cast-on grab representations)
measured .230" o.a. length, which would include the brackets. The Branchline
and ??? Versions measure about .243", and the DA grabs about .275". It
appears
to me that the Branchline grabs are best.

Opinons?
I agree with your conclusion. The DA grabs, whle very nicely made, are too
long; the grabs on most steel box cars of the steam era were 18" on centers.

And why doesn't somebody make these in brass? Or do they, and I haven't found
them yet?
Well, it's been done, but not for sale. Years ago, Dennis Storzek and I
bought a whole bunch of Intermountain bracket grab iron sprues and used
them as "lost styrene" patterns for brass castings. We each got what is
probably a life time supply - and, to answer the obvious question, no, you
can't have any, though if you know of someone who does lost wax casting for
jewelry and such, you could do the same thing yourself.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

MILW Horizontal Rib Boxcar

paul catapano <hpcatapano@...>
 

There used to be a MILW Rib Boxcar in very good condition in Edison (I
think) east of Bakersfield, Ca. being used as a storage shed at a scrap
yard. I have not been up to look for it in about 7 years though. When
last I saw it it's lettering was in very good shape.

Paul Catapano

MILW ribsides

Schuyler Larrabee
 

There's a few shots of these cars on Elwood's Fallen Flags site, but are there
some other shots somewhere else on line? In particular, the versions modeled by
"Rib Side Cars"?

TIA


SGL

Re: decaling Westerfield models

Brian Carlson
 

Thanks all. Since the first model I plan to decal is a carload of PRR HB-1 containers for the G22B gondola. I may try Champ on one side and Mircoscale on the other since I plan to weather the crap out of the containers like Elden Gatwood's model in a issue of TKM.

Brian Carlson

Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@...]

I am about to start decaling my first Westerfield model . . . .

Brian carlson
Brian . . . . I usually use the Champ setting fluid mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with
water first,
I bet Richard left out the word "distilled," as in "distilled water" because
regular tap water has lots of salts and other crud in it which will show up on
your model as water spots. So, to a degree, will the glue on the decal, but
nowhere as much. Distilled water is available at the grocery store and at
stores like CVS. Cheap too.

SGL


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Grabs

Schuyler Larrabee
 

So, looking to improve the MILW rib-side cars, I've scraped off the 'shelves' on
the left end of the sides, to replace them with some proper grabs.

I have some left over from Branchline kits, and some from other kits (don't
recall) and I also have some Details Associates bracket grabs (FC6209).

The first two scale out 16" between the brackets, the DA grabs at 20". OK so
I'm obsessing of .023" here, but which is right? Or righter?

Before cutting them off those shelves (the cast-on grab representations)
measured .230" o.a. length, which would include the brackets. The Branchline
and ??? Versions measure about .243", and the DA grabs about .275". It appears
to me that the Branchline grabs are best.

Opinons?


And why doesn't somebody make these in brass? Or do they, and I haven't found
them yet?


SGL

Re: decaling Westerfield models

Richard Townsend
 

Obviously you're not using water from Lithia Park!

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

I use tap water with no problem because Ashland city
water is very good to start with
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


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Re: decaling Westerfield models

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Schuyler Larrabee:

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@...]

I am about to start decaling my first Westerfield model . . . .

Brian carlson
Brian . . . . I usually use the Champ setting fluid mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with
water first,
I bet Richard left out the word "distilled," as in "distilled water" because
regular tap water has lots of salts and other crud in it which will show up on
your model as water spots. So, to a degree, will the glue on the decal, but
nowhere as much. Distilled water is available at the grocery store and at
stores like CVS. Cheap too.
Schuyler's point is well taken, though I don't personally bother with
distilled water. I use tap water with no problem because Ashland city
water is very good to start with and we have a whole-house filter that
removes what few impurities there might be in it. However, tap water in
many locations might cause problems and distilled water is, as Schuyler
says, inexpensive and readily available.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Re: reefer related question

Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
 

Bill
PHP stands for packing house products, as in Meat Packing. In my research I
did not find it restricted to hog, or by-products, but could cover beef,
lamb, etc.

Some exchanges I had with a former IC dispatcher about meat trains a while
back, indicated that most cars being transferred to the IC contained PHP,
nothing more was noted. Yet I know they contained hanging meat, canned meat,
processed meat, etc. To quote "Oh, the meat trains (PHP for "packinghouse
products" on the train consist) were indeed hot." Below is a portion of a
longer message with additional references to PHP.

PHP might have been a designation used by some roads, more than others.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com/

Dear Doug:

I'm a long-ago-retired IC telegrapher, train dispatcher, chief train
dispatcher, Asst Supt of Transportation, etc. and received your e-mail
request for info regarding IC meat trains during the 40's and 50's. From
1946 until 1968 I was located on the Iowa Division of the IC and moved to
Chicago when the 7 train dispatchers offices throughout the system were
centralized here beginning in 1968.

If you will give me your snail mail address, I'll send you copies of two
articles about meat trains, one from the IC Green Diamond magazine and the
other from the Central Standard Times, a magazine written for the former
Chicago Central RR. The pix from these articles are in B&W and two of them
are photos of meat trains, one pulled by a steam engine and another pulled
by 4 diesels, but the refgrs cannot be identified.

Almost always pix of meat trains concentrate on the locomotives and are not
close-ups of regrs. I have some RR photos, some of which are in color, and
I believe some are of meat trains, but, unfortunately, I cannot find them at
this time. Most of my RR pix were taken by W.L.Heitter (Bill), a long time
friend of mine whose pix are shown in many magazines. Bill passed away a
few years ago.

I'll keep looking for my pix and will send them to you if they are found.
If you would see my basement with years and years of treasure, you would
understand how things get misplaced.

Most of the info in the articles I referred to is fairly accurate, but a few
of my comments follow:

PHP from Storm Lake Iowa was picked up by a Cherokee to FtDodge local and
taken to Fort Dodge where it was added to either SCF-6 (Sioux City to Chgo
meat train) or CC-6 (CoBluffs to Chgo meat train), usually SCF6.

Late in the afternoon Monday thru Saturday we ran a turn around local from
Waterloo to Iowa Falls (50 miles) and return. On its eastward trip this was
the train which picked up the Decker PHP (packinghouse products) at Ackley
and took it to Waterloo to be added to one of the meat trains there.

One of our Iowa Division superintendents and later a high ranking
transportation department officer in Chgo was once heard saying we once ran
as many as 13 meat trains out of Waterloo, but I don't remember running more
than 7 in one day.

The most PHP we ever received from Rath Pkg in Waterloo in one day was 126
cars! Now Rath Pkg doesn't even exist. Some of these cars which were
received in the late afternoon were added to AC-2 (Albert Lea, MN - Chgo)
unless AC-2 was late in which case we ran the Rath PHP ahead, filling the
train out with general merchandise.

Meat trains were the hottest trains on the division. Even passenger trains
took siding for the meat trains. If a train dispatcher delayed a meat
train, even by just giving them just a yellow block, the chief train
dispatcher would send you a torpedo asking why you delayed the meat train.
In those days the speed limit for freight trains between Fort Dodge and
Broadview, IL was 60 MPH and in some places the meat trains were known to
exceed that.

The reason the meat trains were so hot was that we had a 1:00PM cut off for
delivery to the IHB at Broadview, IL, but the IHB would take delivery as
late as 1:30PM. Any later and the IHB could not make connections with
eastern lines such as the Pennsylvania and New York Central. Meat trains
were generally limited to 70 or 80 cars east of Waterloo and after 1953 were
generally powered by 4 diesel units.

Before mechanical refrigerator cars came into being, any necessary icing was
done in Waterloo. It generally took between 1.25" to 1.5" to ice a car
depending how close in the train the icers were together. In hot summer
days, icing took a bit longer. The advent of mechanical refgrs was great in
many ways and much better for train dispatchers trying to figure how long
the train would be in Waterloo.

In steam engine days, the meat trains were operated between Waterloo and
Freeport. IL with one 2800 Central type locomotive, the most powerful on the
IC. This was to provide plenty of power to negotiate the hill from Galena
to Scales Mound, the eastward ruling grade of the Dubuque District.

We had 4 train dispatchers on each 8 hour shift in Waterloo, two of which
handled the Dubuque District (Waterloo to Freeport,IL). One handled the 90
miles Waterloo to Dubuque and the other the 71 miles Dubuque to Freeport.
Those were very busy jobs.

These are just random thoughts. If I think of others that might be
pertinent to your project, I'll pass them along.

Carl M. Storey

Re: We're amateurs!

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Dec 19, 2004, at 6:25 PM, Gary Laakso wrote:

What is their website address?
www.ottofrei.com

Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912

Re: We're amateurs!

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Laakso [mailto:glaaks0@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] We're amateurs!


What is their website address?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Culotta" <tculotta@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 3:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] We're amateurs!



I am modeling a car that has one of the early power hand
brakes where
there is a staff hand brake and at the bottom of the staff
there are
two gears to multiply each turn by the carmen. If you have
the 1932
ARA box car book (shameless plug) this is the type of hand
brake used
on the ARA prototype, C&O, Erie and NKP cars as built. I
thought that
a good way to model these gears would be to use gears from an old
wristwatch (no I don't need to be committed!) I went to a local
jewelry store that does repairs and asked if they had an
old throwaway
wrist watch that I could buy. They gave me an old Omega
ladies model
and said "since you work with small things you should have the
screwdrivers you'll need." I got home and proceeded to
take it apart,
or at least try. My smallest "jewelers" screwdriver was
about 10x too
large. Some of the slots for the head of the screwdriver are
practically invisible. I proceeded to look on the web and found a
jewelers tool dealer here in the Bay Area called Otto Frei.
I ordered
some really small screwdrivers and also perused the web
site. If you
like trains and like tools, this place is a candy store. The
screwdrivers arrived today and I took the watch apart. I
nearly fell
over! The level of precision and miniaturization is staggering and
breathtaking. I now consider myself to be a ham-handed rube after
seeing this work. So, to make a short story long, I think
I have the
parts I need, I found a great new source of tools (check
out their bead
blaster) and learned a little bit about working in miniature.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912





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