Date   

Re: Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.

Tim O'Connor
 

... trucks are only a small proportion of the overall mass in
this kind of test as opposed to the tester with only the mass
of the truck.
The Reboxx tester can really only be used to compare the change in
rolling resistance of a particular set of sideframes, with different
wheelsets. It is useless for predicting performance under an actual
model car. I discovered years ago that Kato trucks roll incredibly
well -- until you put a car body on them. They do perform much
better after I replace the wheelsets with Reboxx.

I've been trying to talk my club into building an inclined ramp
with an electronic HO scale speedometer at the bottom. This should
allow fairly accurate car-to-car comparisons regardless of the brand
of trucks and wheels in use.

Tim O.


Re: Freight Tariffs

raildata@...
 

We have a ton of Freight Tariffs at the Colo RR Museum.

Aside from some lawyers who show up once in a while to use them there seems
tob e no obvious use for them or info contained in them.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Re: S.S.W. 20067 & U.P. 193685

Shawn Beckert
 

Rob,

I'm pretty sure I have drawings and specs for the SSW cars at home. Give me a day or two
to dig them out and I'll get the information to you.

Shawn Beckert

-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-2554753-37113-1104607109-shawn.beckert=disney.com@....
yahoo.com
[mailto:sentto-2554753-37113-1104607109-shawn.beckert=disney.com@returns
.groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of Rob Kirkham
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:18 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] S.S.W. 20067 & U.P. 193685



Thanks again for the further detail on the SSW car. Those ACR sides are neat, if a challenge, but if I start with unpainted models, or strip models and apply Athearn rivets, I should be able to get close enough. Depending on the accuracy of the info out there.

I've done a search this morning of the Model Trains Magazine Index and, while I found a Feb 1979 article in Prototype Modeler that may relate to the Cotton Belt car, I found absolutely nothing for the UP car. So two follow up questions:

1) can anyone with a Feb 1979 copy of the Prototype Modeler mag check it to see if the article covers (especially with drawings) the SSW 20000-20094 series cars? and

2) does anyone know where drawings showing rivet placement on the UP 193000-193748, Class B-50-33, built 1941-42 at Omaha can be had?

Thanks again

Rob Kirkham






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Re: M&StL

Tim O'Connor
 

There is a 1960 color photo of one of these cars in Morning Sun's
Rock Island In Color, Volume 1, page 65. By then they were fairly
weathered, and it looks pretty much like other box car colors, a
dull brownish red.

I picked up my BCR version of this car last Thursday and was very
surprised to see just how bright the red is.
Me, too, Bill. I'll be interested in what the Louie mavens have to
say about this.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: SFRB 5800-5999 Rr64

Tim O'Connor
 

Builder photo, page 355 of the 1961 Car Builder Cyclopedia.

Can anyone point me to a decent shot of Santa Fe RBL series SFRB
5800-5999? Class is Rr64.


Re: Stock cars, etc.

charles slater
 

The Ft-M class cars were 40 foot cars not 50 foot. Another Athearn mistake.
Charlie Slater
Bakersfield Ca.

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock cars, etc.
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:39:36 -0800

I noticed in the 4th quarter "Warbonnet" announcements section the IM
Sk-T stock cars kits are expected to be available. I'm guessing
production
is way behind however it appears that kits will be offered _sometime_!
Also noted is an Athearn Ft-M flat car with early trailers. Does
anyone
know if these are new cars or just repaint schemes on old cars?
Same antique Athearn flat cars, though with improved paint/lettering.

As for the IM stock cars, I can't tell you exactly when the kits will be
available, but I've just finished building two models from pre-production
parts and I'm currently working on an illustrated kit review for the
Warbonnet. The kits are among the best ever done in HO scale. They take
time to assemble, as there are lots of detail parts (including
free-standing wire grabs, etc.) but the holes for the wire parts are cored
and everything fits together very well. All parts are included to model
any of the five classes of Pennsyvania Car Co. stock cars - both KC and AB
air brakes, vertical staff and Ajax hand brakes, letterboards for all
periods in the history of the cars, two styles of end doors, etc. etc. The
sides for the double deck Sk-Q and Sk-S class cars are still in the process
of being tooled, but the decks, doors, and hoisting mechanisms for these
cars are included on the parts sprues. We owe a lot to list member Marty
McGuirk for thorough research on the prototypes and thoughtful design and
engineering on the models. Anyone who doesn't like these kits should be
advised to take up some other hobby like quilting or bottle cap collecting.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Walthers USRA Gondolas

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

John - The Walthers gons are not correct. Even though their development manager attended my clinic and took the handout describing the cars, they put the wrong lettering on them - the car numbers are for physically different clones delivered in 1923 or 1925 (I forget which) that had different drop ends and other details. Go figure. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: John Golden
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Walthers USRA Gondolas


Guys,

Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons?
I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right
color (they come painted black), right numbers, right
details, etc. for the early 1950s period? Thanks much
for the assist.

John

=====
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014



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Re: obsolete M&StL freight cars

Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
 

Great post Gene. I too would like to see that train, in HO. Now the
question. In HO, what models would best replicated this train? I have an
idea, but as you know freight cars, including available models, I just have
to ask?

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com/


Re: Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.

Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
 

Andy,
When Reboxx first demonstrated their wheelsets at the NSMRC, they used an Athern boxcar and trucks. I believe they ran three tests. The first was straight Athern including wheels. The second was with Kadee replacement sets, and the third was Reboxx wheels. The tests consisted of placing the car on a 2.5% grade and letting it run free. Rolling capabilities were based on distance the cars traveled beyond the bottom of the grade. The difference between the Reboxx and the other two was dramatic. The Reboxx set traveled 30-40 feet further than either of the others. The point here is the trucks are only a small proportion of the overall mass in this kind of test as opposed to the tester with only the mass of the truck. I believe it is a better evaluation method, though cumbersome. In short, I agree with you.
Regards,
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Miller
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.


Denny,

The low initial numbers on many trucks leads me to wonder how much of the
poor performance is a function not of roll-resistance but rather of lack of
momentum on the roll tester. Very lightweight trucks such as the Lindberg
performed poorly. When they were first introduced in the 60s, the Lindberg
truck was famous for enabling cars to roll very, very well, despite the fact
that the naked truck did not roll well at all! Given metal wheel sets they
have far more momentum and therefore roll well. I perceive that a different
type of roll test, one with equal weight of truck, might produce different
results, and ones more akin to what you might expect under a 3.5 oz HO
freight car.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:16 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Car List
Subject: [STMFC] Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.


Using a Reboxx rolltester, here are my findings in testing some selected
trucks to determine the best wheel sets allowing the most rolls. I have only
had the roll tester for 16 months, so a lot of different trucks that were
converted prior that time cannot be listed, inasmuch as they were only
"eyeball" tested.
The numbers given are the number of rolls observed, each movement counted no
matter how small.

10 0r less: Not acceptable
10-13: Minimally acceptable.
14-20: Acceptable
21 and above: Ideal

Kadee Bettendorf:
* Original Kadee wheels: 4, 4, 4.
* Reboxx 1.020" wheels: 16, 17, 19.

Kadee Bettendorf T-section:
* Original Kadee wheels: 14, 15, 15.
* Reboxx 1.020": 20, 19, 19.
Kadee ARchbar:
* Original Kadee wheels: 8,8,8.
* Reboxx 1.025": 17, 17, 18.
* Reboxx 1.020": 8, 8, 8.

Central Valley Archbar:
* CV wheels: 8, 8, 8
* Reboxx 1.020" 12, 13, 14, 14, 14.

Lindberg (no weight)
* Lindberg wheels: 4, 4, 4.
* Reboxx 1.020": 9,9,8.
* Reboxx 1.020": 19. 26. 23.

Accurail Bettendorf:
* Accurail wheels: 11, 11, 11.
* Reboxx 1.010": 23, 22, 22.

Accurail Andrews:
* Accurail wheels: 8, 8, 8.
* Reboxx 1.030": 20, 20, 20.
* Reboxx 1.025": 22, 22, 23.

Athearn "AAR" #1:
Reboxx 1.030" 26, 26, 25.

Athearn "AAR" #2:
Athearn metal wheels: 15, 16, 16.
Reboxx 1.025": 21, 21, 21.
Reboxx 1.030": 19, 19, 19.
Reboxx 1.035": 20, 21, 22.

I have others as well, mostly passenger.

Denny


--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California




Yahoo! Groups Links











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Re: Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Denny,

The low initial numbers on many trucks leads me to wonder how much of the
poor performance is a function not of roll-resistance but rather of lack of
momentum on the roll tester. Very lightweight trucks such as the Lindberg
performed poorly. When they were first introduced in the 60s, the Lindberg
truck was famous for enabling cars to roll very, very well, despite the fact
that the naked truck did not roll well at all! Given metal wheel sets they
have far more momentum and therefore roll well. I perceive that a different
type of roll test, one with equal weight of truck, might produce different
results, and ones more akin to what you might expect under a 3.5 oz HO
freight car.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:16 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Car List
Subject: [STMFC] Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.


Using a Reboxx rolltester, here are my findings in testing some selected
trucks to determine the best wheel sets allowing the most rolls. I have only
had the roll tester for 16 months, so a lot of different trucks that were
converted prior that time cannot be listed, inasmuch as they were only
"eyeball" tested.
The numbers given are the number of rolls observed, each movement counted no
matter how small.

10 0r less: Not acceptable
10-13: Minimally acceptable.
14-20: Acceptable
21 and above: Ideal

Kadee Bettendorf:
* Original Kadee wheels: 4, 4, 4.
* Reboxx 1.020" wheels: 16, 17, 19.

Kadee Bettendorf T-section:
* Original Kadee wheels: 14, 15, 15.
* Reboxx 1.020": 20, 19, 19.
Kadee ARchbar:
* Original Kadee wheels: 8,8,8.
* Reboxx 1.025": 17, 17, 18.
* Reboxx 1.020": 8, 8, 8.

Central Valley Archbar:
* CV wheels: 8, 8, 8
* Reboxx 1.020" 12, 13, 14, 14, 14.

Lindberg (no weight)
* Lindberg wheels: 4, 4, 4.
* Reboxx 1.020": 9,9,8.
* Reboxx 1.020": 19. 26. 23.

Accurail Bettendorf:
* Accurail wheels: 11, 11, 11.
* Reboxx 1.010": 23, 22, 22.

Accurail Andrews:
* Accurail wheels: 8, 8, 8.
* Reboxx 1.030": 20, 20, 20.
* Reboxx 1.025": 22, 22, 23.

Athearn "AAR" #1:
Reboxx 1.030" 26, 26, 25.

Athearn "AAR" #2:
Athearn metal wheels: 15, 16, 16.
Reboxx 1.025": 21, 21, 21.
Reboxx 1.030": 19, 19, 19.
Reboxx 1.035": 20, 21, 22.

I have others as well, mostly passenger.

Denny


--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California




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SFRB 5800-5999 Rr64

mopacfirst
 

Can anyone point me to a decent shot of Santa Fe RBL series SFRB
5800-5999? Class is Rr64. I have tried the usual places I look for
photos, and it's not in the Santa Fe books I have. Because I'm primarily
interested in the mechanical details, it doesn't have to be in the
as-built paint scheme.

This car was produced by Branchline, and I don't want to start building it
until I know I can modify it. I'm expecting some differences around the
sill steps and the ends of the side sill, based on a lot of the other
Santa Fe cars of the era. This will also be the first time I add a
cushion underframe to a Branchline car, so it should be interesting.

Ron Merrick (aka mopacfirst)

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obsolete M&StL freight cars

Gene Green <lgreen@...>
 

Minneapolis, January 23, 1953

Mr. W.O. Rux,
Mr. F.B. Clark,
Mr. C.S. Weatherill,
Mr. R.C. Goebel,
Mr. F. B . Matthews:

At Marshalltown, as of this time, we have on hand a considerable
number of freight cars in heavy bad order.

In this group, there is a considerable number of obsolete units, and
the cost of repairs to these and others, is such to make it
unprofitable rehabilitate them for further use.

We have therefore arranged to, through outright sale, dispose of 103
of these cars.

Attached hereto is a list of 53 box cars and 50 hoppers, a total of
103 units, which the Mechanical Department will now put in proper
running order, and the Transportation Department will assemble in a
train to leave Marshalltown January 30th, 1953, billed to The Purdy
Company, Burnham, Illinois, and routed Peoria-GM&O - IHB delivery.

Mr. Rux has made tentative arrangements with the GM&O concerning this
movement, but he will now proceed and make a specific arrangement, it
being the intention to move the cars intact between Peoria and
Burnham.

Mr. Rux will also issue the necessary specific instructions in
respect of the waybilling for this movement.

Mr. Clark will in due time submit to this office, certification as to
the exact cars that were included in the train movement, and which
are eventually delivered to the GM&O at Peoria.

It should be understood that there are to be no substitutions in
respect of the specific cars included in the attached statement.

Mr. Weatherill will arrange to include these units in AFE issued to
cover retirement of freight cars in 1953.

We shall wish to have your acknowledgment of receipt of this letter.

J.W. Devins
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now this is a train I wish I had seen!

The train was made up of 39 24000 series box cars which were a
variation of the 1929 ARA 40-ton single-sheathed design; 14 box cars
from 52000 series which were 'USRA' box cars built by the M&StL on
USRA reefer underframes from the C&NW; 8 two-bay open hoppers from
the 63001 series; and 42 two-bay open hoppers from the 65001 series.
Both hopper series were used USRA hoppers the M&StL acquired in 1941
and 1944 respectively.

The officials named had the following titles:
Mr. W.O. Rux - Asst. to Genl. Mgr. (Car Service)
Mr. F.B. Clark - General Superintendent
Mr. C.S. Weatherill - Chief Engineer
Mr. R.C. Goebel - Mechanical Superintendent
Mr. F. B . Matthews - Purchasing Agent
J.W. Devins - President (had been VP & GM for years)

Gene Green


Re: Pennsy Freight Car Color [Was: Pennsy F35]

Greg Martin
 

First Bruce writes:
I think that you get a nice post war FCC with just Special Oxide Red. A
1:1 mix of Zinc Chromate and Special Oxide Red (Polyscale) is a perfect match
for the prewar FCC . . .

Then Tony replies...
A "perfect match"?? Have we come so far that we know what to match Pennsy FCC
to? Wow! Happy New Year, everybody!
Sure you know, perfect, as in perfectly acceptable... He could still use a
better medium than the ACCU-Flex spin... If the hobby dealers would only
inventory it!

Greg Martin


Re: Trackside around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly

Schuyler Larrabee
 

That's not the book that was referred to, it was
_Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch_, Andover Junction Publications,
publisher, 1997.

Good book but focused on the PRR. The "Trackside" book mentioned below is more
evenhanded among the different railroads.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: CBarkan@... [mailto:CBarkan@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:32 AM
To: pgrace@...
Cc: billinsf@...; STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Trackside around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly



I don't know if this is the book Bill was referring to, but I
found two
copies listed for sale on the internet. Here is the listing
for one of them, the
other was at Half.com.

Chris

Jeremy F. Plant and Bill Caloroso
Trackside around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly with Lloyd Hall
Morning Sun Books, 2003 NEW CONDITION. 8.5 x 11in., 128
pages. This book is organized by railroad and location,
beginning with the Lehigh Valley around Towanda, PA and
following this around Sayre, PA. It then looks at the Erie,
Lackawanna and Erie Lackawanna in Waverly, NY, following them
west to the Elmira, NY area. At Elmira it heads south on the
picturesque Elmira Branch of the Pennsylvania Railroad. This
entire remarkable primarily taken in the 1940's was conducted
within a one hour drive of photographer Lloyd Hall's home in
Towanda, PA. This book is about 70 percent Lehigh Valley with
the remaining split among the Erie, Lackawanna, E-L and
Pennsylvania. A couple of pages show the D&H Sharks and PA's.
Retail $59.95. Hard cover with full color cover jacket.
ISBN: 1582481008
Bookseller Inventory #MS295
 
Price: US$ 50.00

Bookseller: Golden Spike Railroad Books
Contact: Randy K. Curtin
Address: 1161 N. Sonoita Ave., Tucson, AZ, U.S.A., 85712-5171
Homepage: http://www.goldenspike.us/
E-mail: sales@...
Phone #: 520-546-5778


In a message dated 1/2/05 7:17:33 AM, billinsf@... writes:

<< Patrick,

The PRR's Elmira Branch line is well documented in Bill
Caloroso's book on the Elmira Branch. The signature load of
the Elmira Branch was coal for transshipment at Sodus Point,
although many of the other commodities mentioned previously
are also applicable. The PRR used it's lone X30 class boxcar
on this line to carry firetrucks from American LaFrance.
And there was the joint operations with the NYC north of Elmira...

While Bill's book currently is out of print and somewhat
difficult to obtain, it is worth the effort.
And talking with Bill some months ago he mentioned the
possibility of it's being reprinted. Hopefully it will be
made available again.

=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ >>




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Re: Viloco brake step

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, January 2, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:

Does anybody know what a Viloco brake step looked like?
Ted,
There's a photo of one on page 413 of the 1943 CBC. It's basically a steel plate with stamped impressions for footing.
Ed Hawkins


photos

Bud Brock
 

Does anyone know a resource for pictures of Hershey Foods reefers?
Bud Brock


Re: Walthers USRA Gondolas

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

John Golden asked:
"Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons?
I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right
color (they come painted black), right numbers, right
details, etc. for the early 1950s period? Thanks much
for the assist."

Westerfield has done these cars in their 8100 series. For more quick
prototype information, go to:
http://www.westerfield.biz/cg730001.htm

The NYC car would most likely be painted freight car brown. Terry Link's
website summarized the NYC open car paint timeline as follows:

http://canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm
http://canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-622.jpg

* All NYC hoppers were painted black prior to February 20, 1941.

* From February 20, 1941 to June 6, 1956 they were painted freight car
brown.

* After June 6, 1956, shops equipped for handling F-1 black car cement,
between April 1 and October 1 were BLACK. Shops NOT equipped for handling
F-1 cement and ALL shops between October 1 and April 1 were freight car
brown. This information comes from Specification P-18, Painting Open Top and
Flat Cars, first issued December 28, 1921. In practice, it seems that
locations with inside paint facilities used black F-1 cement year round and
these locations accounted for the preponderance of cars painted.

* From about 1960 to 1968 a black paint replaced the F-1 cement and was used
year round on hoppers, gondolas and flatcars. Some special service gondolas
received silver paint. Some Pittsburgh & Lake Erie gondolas and flatcars
were painted Century Green between 1960 and 1968.

Also see the March 2004 TKM for Elden Gatwood's article on modeling PRR
Class G25 from the Westerfield and Walthers kits:
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_NO08.htm


Ben Hom


Re: Walthers USRA Gondolas

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Jan 2, 2005, at 3:23 PM, John Golden wrote:

Guys,

Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons?
I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right
color (they come painted black), right numbers, right
details, etc. for the early 1950s period?  Thanks much
for the assist.
John:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/reviews/walusragonmain.html

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Couplers and Wheels

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote:
...
In real time there IS an accurate general correlation of these two
parameters over a wide range, but because the axle ends and the
journal boxes rarely, if ever, present to each other as perfect
concentric cones, maximum rollability , i.e. reproducible
objectively-measured mimimum rolling resistance, rarely occurs
without some end play, sometimes a fair amount. That is why the
Accurail trucks that I have tested (repeatedly) roll the very best
with axles considerably shorter than what might otherwise be
considered ideal if one was judging on minimum end play as well.
Theory would have it that the further out the axle cones are the
larger the radius of the bearing cone becomes. Larger radius
means "flatter" surface and less sink of the cone tips into the
somewhat soft bearing material. This translates into less friction.
Ideally the axles should just even go into the bearing cones. Not
very practical!

The relation has probably a curved characteristic, meaning for any
gain in bearing radius the drop in friction becomes less. That will
call for less observable differences with the roll tester the shorter
the axles become.

Fortunately, the end play on these trucks (and also most other
trucks with similar issues) does not result in the waddling drunken
gait and reduced car height that has been experienced and seen so
often with the notorious Athearn trucks.
Which in my world will defy theory but might be valid practically.
Here, many issues come together like the play in the truck mounting
and surface friction of the truck material. In effect we see the end
result of a large combination of material pairs and mechanical
parameters.

Manfred


Walthers USRA Gondolas

golden1014
 

Guys,

Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons?
I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right
color (they come painted black), right numbers, right
details, etc. for the early 1950s period? Thanks much
for the assist.

John

=====
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014

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