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Re: Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.
The Reboxx tester can really only be used to compare the change in... trucks are only a small proportion of the overall mass in rolling resistance of a particular set of sideframes, with different wheelsets. It is useless for predicting performance under an actual model car. I discovered years ago that Kato trucks roll incredibly well -- until you put a car body on them. They do perform much better after I replace the wheelsets with Reboxx. I've been trying to talk my club into building an inclined ramp with an electronic HO scale speedometer at the bottom. This should allow fairly accurate car-to-car comparisons regardless of the brand of trucks and wheels in use. Tim O.
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Re: Freight Tariffs
raildata@...
We have a ton of Freight Tariffs at the Colo RR Museum.
Aside from some lawyers who show up once in a while to use them there seems tob e no obvious use for them or info contained in them. Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO
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Re: S.S.W. 20067 & U.P. 193685
Shawn Beckert
Rob,
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I'm pretty sure I have drawings and specs for the SSW cars at home. Give me a day or two to dig them out and I'll get the information to you. Shawn Beckert
-----Original Message-----
From: sentto-2554753-37113-1104607109-shawn.beckert=disney.com@.... yahoo.com [mailto:sentto-2554753-37113-1104607109-shawn.beckert=disney.com@returns .groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of Rob Kirkham Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:18 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] S.S.W. 20067 & U.P. 193685 Thanks again for the further detail on the SSW car. Those ACR sides are neat, if a challenge, but if I start with unpainted models, or strip models and apply Athearn rivets, I should be able to get close enough. Depending on the accuracy of the info out there. I've done a search this morning of the Model Trains Magazine Index and, while I found a Feb 1979 article in Prototype Modeler that may relate to the Cotton Belt car, I found absolutely nothing for the UP car. So two follow up questions: 1) can anyone with a Feb 1979 copy of the Prototype Modeler mag check it to see if the article covers (especially with drawings) the SSW 20000-20094 series cars? and 2) does anyone know where drawings showing rivet placement on the UP 193000-193748, Class B-50-33, built 1941-42 at Omaha can be had? Thanks again Rob Kirkham Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: M&StL
There is a 1960 color photo of one of these cars in Morning Sun's
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Rock Island In Color, Volume 1, page 65. By then they were fairly weathered, and it looks pretty much like other box car colors, a dull brownish red.
I picked up my BCR version of this car last Thursday and was very Me, too, Bill. I'll be interested in what the Louie mavens have to
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Re: SFRB 5800-5999 Rr64
Builder photo, page 355 of the 1961 Car Builder Cyclopedia.
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Can anyone point me to a decent shot of Santa Fe RBL series SFRB
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Re: Stock cars, etc.
charles slater
The Ft-M class cars were 40 foot cars not 50 foot. Another Athearn mistake.
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Charlie Slater Bakersfield Ca.
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
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Re: Walthers USRA Gondolas
Westerfield <westerfield@...>
John - The Walthers gons are not correct. Even though their development manager attended my clinic and took the handout describing the cars, they put the wrong lettering on them - the car numbers are for physically different clones delivered in 1923 or 1925 (I forget which) that had different drop ends and other details. Go figure. - Al Westerfield
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----- Original Message -----
From: John Golden To: STMFC@... Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:23 PM Subject: [STMFC] Walthers USRA Gondolas Guys, Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons? I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right color (they come painted black), right numbers, right details, etc. for the early 1950s period? Thanks much for the assist. John ===== John Golden O'Fallon, IL http://www.pbase.com/golden1014 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Re: obsolete M&StL freight cars
Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
Great post Gene. I too would like to see that train, in HO. Now the
question. In HO, what models would best replicated this train? I have an idea, but as you know freight cars, including available models, I just have to ask? Doug Harding Iowa Central Railroad http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com/
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Re: Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.
Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
Andy,
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When Reboxx first demonstrated their wheelsets at the NSMRC, they used an Athern boxcar and trucks. I believe they ran three tests. The first was straight Athern including wheels. The second was with Kadee replacement sets, and the third was Reboxx wheels. The tests consisted of placing the car on a 2.5% grade and letting it run free. Rolling capabilities were based on distance the cars traveled beyond the bottom of the grade. The difference between the Reboxx and the other two was dramatic. The Reboxx set traveled 30-40 feet further than either of the others. The point here is the trucks are only a small proportion of the overall mass in this kind of test as opposed to the tester with only the mass of the truck. I believe it is a better evaluation method, though cumbersome. In short, I agree with you. Regards, Norm Larkin
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Miller To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks. Denny, The low initial numbers on many trucks leads me to wonder how much of the poor performance is a function not of roll-resistance but rather of lack of momentum on the roll tester. Very lightweight trucks such as the Lindberg performed poorly. When they were first introduced in the 60s, the Lindberg truck was famous for enabling cars to roll very, very well, despite the fact that the naked truck did not roll well at all! Given metal wheel sets they have far more momentum and therefore roll well. I perceive that a different type of roll test, one with equal weight of truck, might produce different results, and ones more akin to what you might expect under a 3.5 oz HO freight car. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...] Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:16 PM To: Steam Era Freight Car List Subject: [STMFC] Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks. Using a Reboxx rolltester, here are my findings in testing some selected trucks to determine the best wheel sets allowing the most rolls. I have only had the roll tester for 16 months, so a lot of different trucks that were converted prior that time cannot be listed, inasmuch as they were only "eyeball" tested. The numbers given are the number of rolls observed, each movement counted no matter how small. 10 0r less: Not acceptable 10-13: Minimally acceptable. 14-20: Acceptable 21 and above: Ideal Kadee Bettendorf: * Original Kadee wheels: 4, 4, 4. * Reboxx 1.020" wheels: 16, 17, 19. Kadee Bettendorf T-section: * Original Kadee wheels: 14, 15, 15. * Reboxx 1.020": 20, 19, 19. Kadee ARchbar: * Original Kadee wheels: 8,8,8. * Reboxx 1.025": 17, 17, 18. * Reboxx 1.020": 8, 8, 8. Central Valley Archbar: * CV wheels: 8, 8, 8 * Reboxx 1.020" 12, 13, 14, 14, 14. Lindberg (no weight) * Lindberg wheels: 4, 4, 4. * Reboxx 1.020": 9,9,8. * Reboxx 1.020": 19. 26. 23. Accurail Bettendorf: * Accurail wheels: 11, 11, 11. * Reboxx 1.010": 23, 22, 22. Accurail Andrews: * Accurail wheels: 8, 8, 8. * Reboxx 1.030": 20, 20, 20. * Reboxx 1.025": 22, 22, 23. Athearn "AAR" #1: Reboxx 1.030" 26, 26, 25. Athearn "AAR" #2: Athearn metal wheels: 15, 16, 16. Reboxx 1.025": 21, 21, 21. Reboxx 1.030": 19, 19, 19. Reboxx 1.035": 20, 21, 22. I have others as well, mostly passenger. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento, California Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Re: Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks.
Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
Denny,
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The low initial numbers on many trucks leads me to wonder how much of the poor performance is a function not of roll-resistance but rather of lack of momentum on the roll tester. Very lightweight trucks such as the Lindberg performed poorly. When they were first introduced in the 60s, the Lindberg truck was famous for enabling cars to roll very, very well, despite the fact that the naked truck did not roll well at all! Given metal wheel sets they have far more momentum and therefore roll well. I perceive that a different type of roll test, one with equal weight of truck, might produce different results, and ones more akin to what you might expect under a 3.5 oz HO freight car. regards, Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...] Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:16 PM To: Steam Era Freight Car List Subject: [STMFC] Rolling Resistance Data for selected trucks. Using a Reboxx rolltester, here are my findings in testing some selected trucks to determine the best wheel sets allowing the most rolls. I have only had the roll tester for 16 months, so a lot of different trucks that were converted prior that time cannot be listed, inasmuch as they were only "eyeball" tested. The numbers given are the number of rolls observed, each movement counted no matter how small. 10 0r less: Not acceptable 10-13: Minimally acceptable. 14-20: Acceptable 21 and above: Ideal Kadee Bettendorf: * Original Kadee wheels: 4, 4, 4. * Reboxx 1.020" wheels: 16, 17, 19. Kadee Bettendorf T-section: * Original Kadee wheels: 14, 15, 15. * Reboxx 1.020": 20, 19, 19. Kadee ARchbar: * Original Kadee wheels: 8,8,8. * Reboxx 1.025": 17, 17, 18. * Reboxx 1.020": 8, 8, 8. Central Valley Archbar: * CV wheels: 8, 8, 8 * Reboxx 1.020" 12, 13, 14, 14, 14. Lindberg (no weight) * Lindberg wheels: 4, 4, 4. * Reboxx 1.020": 9,9,8. * Reboxx 1.020": 19. 26. 23. Accurail Bettendorf: * Accurail wheels: 11, 11, 11. * Reboxx 1.010": 23, 22, 22. Accurail Andrews: * Accurail wheels: 8, 8, 8. * Reboxx 1.030": 20, 20, 20. * Reboxx 1.025": 22, 22, 23. Athearn "AAR" #1: Reboxx 1.030" 26, 26, 25. Athearn "AAR" #2: Athearn metal wheels: 15, 16, 16. Reboxx 1.025": 21, 21, 21. Reboxx 1.030": 19, 19, 19. Reboxx 1.035": 20, 21, 22. I have others as well, mostly passenger. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento, California Yahoo! Groups Links
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SFRB 5800-5999 Rr64
mopacfirst
Can anyone point me to a decent shot of Santa Fe RBL series SFRB
5800-5999? Class is Rr64. I have tried the usual places I look for photos, and it's not in the Santa Fe books I have. Because I'm primarily interested in the mechanical details, it doesn't have to be in the as-built paint scheme. This car was produced by Branchline, and I don't want to start building it until I know I can modify it. I'm expecting some differences around the sill steps and the ends of the side sill, based on a lot of the other Santa Fe cars of the era. This will also be the first time I add a cushion underframe to a Branchline car, so it should be interesting. Ron Merrick (aka mopacfirst) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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obsolete M&StL freight cars
Gene Green <lgreen@...>
Minneapolis, January 23, 1953
Mr. W.O. Rux, Mr. F.B. Clark, Mr. C.S. Weatherill, Mr. R.C. Goebel, Mr. F. B . Matthews: At Marshalltown, as of this time, we have on hand a considerable number of freight cars in heavy bad order. In this group, there is a considerable number of obsolete units, and the cost of repairs to these and others, is such to make it unprofitable rehabilitate them for further use. We have therefore arranged to, through outright sale, dispose of 103 of these cars. Attached hereto is a list of 53 box cars and 50 hoppers, a total of 103 units, which the Mechanical Department will now put in proper running order, and the Transportation Department will assemble in a train to leave Marshalltown January 30th, 1953, billed to The Purdy Company, Burnham, Illinois, and routed Peoria-GM&O - IHB delivery. Mr. Rux has made tentative arrangements with the GM&O concerning this movement, but he will now proceed and make a specific arrangement, it being the intention to move the cars intact between Peoria and Burnham. Mr. Rux will also issue the necessary specific instructions in respect of the waybilling for this movement. Mr. Clark will in due time submit to this office, certification as to the exact cars that were included in the train movement, and which are eventually delivered to the GM&O at Peoria. It should be understood that there are to be no substitutions in respect of the specific cars included in the attached statement. Mr. Weatherill will arrange to include these units in AFE issued to cover retirement of freight cars in 1953. We shall wish to have your acknowledgment of receipt of this letter. J.W. Devins ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now this is a train I wish I had seen! The train was made up of 39 24000 series box cars which were a variation of the 1929 ARA 40-ton single-sheathed design; 14 box cars from 52000 series which were 'USRA' box cars built by the M&StL on USRA reefer underframes from the C&NW; 8 two-bay open hoppers from the 63001 series; and 42 two-bay open hoppers from the 65001 series. Both hopper series were used USRA hoppers the M&StL acquired in 1941 and 1944 respectively. The officials named had the following titles: Mr. W.O. Rux - Asst. to Genl. Mgr. (Car Service) Mr. F.B. Clark - General Superintendent Mr. C.S. Weatherill - Chief Engineer Mr. R.C. Goebel - Mechanical Superintendent Mr. F. B . Matthews - Purchasing Agent J.W. Devins - President (had been VP & GM for years) Gene Green
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Re: Pennsy Freight Car Color [Was: Pennsy F35]
Greg Martin
First Bruce writes:
I think that you get a nice post war FCC with just Special Oxide Red. A1:1 mix of Zinc Chromate and Special Oxide Red (Polyscale) is a perfect match for the prewar FCC . . . Then Tony replies... A "perfect match"?? Have we come so far that we know what to match Pennsy FCC to? Wow! Happy New Year, everybody! Sure you know, perfect, as in perfectly acceptable... He could still use a better medium than the ACCU-Flex spin... If the hobby dealers would only inventory it! Greg Martin
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Re: Trackside around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly
Schuyler Larrabee
That's not the book that was referred to, it was
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_Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch_, Andover Junction Publications, publisher, 1997. Good book but focused on the PRR. The "Trackside" book mentioned below is more evenhanded among the different railroads. SGL
-----Original Message-----
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Re: Viloco brake step
Ed Hawkins
On Sunday, January 2, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:
Does anybody know what a Viloco brake step looked like?Ted, There's a photo of one on page 413 of the 1943 CBC. It's basically a steel plate with stamped impressions for footing. Ed Hawkins
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photos
Bud Brock
Does anyone know a resource for pictures of Hershey Foods reefers?
Bud Brock
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Re: Walthers USRA Gondolas
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
John Golden asked:
"Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons? I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right color (they come painted black), right numbers, right details, etc. for the early 1950s period? Thanks much for the assist." Westerfield has done these cars in their 8100 series. For more quick prototype information, go to: http://www.westerfield.biz/cg730001.htm The NYC car would most likely be painted freight car brown. Terry Link's website summarized the NYC open car paint timeline as follows: http://canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm http://canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-622.jpg * All NYC hoppers were painted black prior to February 20, 1941. * From February 20, 1941 to June 6, 1956 they were painted freight car brown. * After June 6, 1956, shops equipped for handling F-1 black car cement, between April 1 and October 1 were BLACK. Shops NOT equipped for handling F-1 cement and ALL shops between October 1 and April 1 were freight car brown. This information comes from Specification P-18, Painting Open Top and Flat Cars, first issued December 28, 1921. In practice, it seems that locations with inside paint facilities used black F-1 cement year round and these locations accounted for the preponderance of cars painted. * From about 1960 to 1968 a black paint replaced the F-1 cement and was used year round on hoppers, gondolas and flatcars. Some special service gondolas received silver paint. Some Pittsburgh & Lake Erie gondolas and flatcars were painted Century Green between 1960 and 1968. Also see the March 2004 TKM for Elden Gatwood's article on modeling PRR Class G25 from the Westerfield and Walthers kits: http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_NO08.htm Ben Hom
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Re: Walthers USRA Gondolas
Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Jan 2, 2005, at 3:23 PM, John Golden wrote:
Guys,John: http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/reviews/walusragonmain.html Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912
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Re: Couplers and Wheels
Manfred Lorenz
--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote:
... In real time there IS an accurate general correlation of these twoTheory would have it that the further out the axle cones are the larger the radius of the bearing cone becomes. Larger radius means "flatter" surface and less sink of the cone tips into the somewhat soft bearing material. This translates into less friction. Ideally the axles should just even go into the bearing cones. Not very practical! The relation has probably a curved characteristic, meaning for any gain in bearing radius the drop in friction becomes less. That will call for less observable differences with the roll tester the shorter the axles become. Fortunately, the end play on these trucks (and also most otherWhich in my world will defy theory but might be valid practically. Here, many issues come together like the play in the truck mounting and surface friction of the truck material. In effect we see the end result of a large combination of material pairs and mechanical parameters. Manfred
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Walthers USRA Gondolas
golden1014
Guys,
Has anyone done research on the Walthers USRA gons? I'm interested in the NYC car--are they the right color (they come painted black), right numbers, right details, etc. for the early 1950s period? Thanks much for the assist. John ===== John Golden O'Fallon, IL http://www.pbase.com/golden1014
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