Date   

Re: Freight Tariffs

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chuck Yungkurth said:
One of the law firms that was at CRRM recently was looking for triffs that
related to asbestoes. I think he represented a railroad and was working on cases
where employees handled the stuff.
Most railroads and car builders are currently getting hit with these asbestos suits. The liability lawyers must have had a feature article in their national magazine about lotsa bucks going begging in railway asbestos or something.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Westerfield cattle  car

eabracher@...
 

In a message dated 1/4/05 6:43:43 PM, rgsfan@... writes:


The problem is to stop routing
before one knicks one of the car side lateral supports.  I used to do
it this way and it is faster
Boy will this take a steady hand.

eric


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Westerfield cattle car

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Eric,
While I've not built that particular kit, I have built 18 of
Westerfield's Fowler stock cars. Sanding the sides to get the flash
super-thin is the best way to go. When in doubt follow the instructions.
Palce the floor casting in boiling water for a few seconds and then
let it cool on a flat surface. That should help your problem.
Pierre Oliver
http://www.elgincarshops.com/

--- In STMFC@..., eabracher@a... wrote:
I am getting ready to build one of Westerfields SP cattle cars.
Anyone
who built one that has some modeling tips i would like to hear of
them.

Removing flash between each side board is a chore. Any shortcuts
short of
sanding down each side to razor thin?

the floor is a bit warped. Will gluing the center beam help in
making it
flat?

Any comments would be most appreciated.

eric



Re: Prototype Rails 2005 Clinic Schedule

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Dear Mike,

Both the Double door version of that SS Mopac car (our # 1901) and the single door version (#1951) lasted through your era. We have one each of these kits at the moment. Would you like us to set either or both aside for you? Let us know before we set off. We leave for FL tomorrow late afternoon, arrive at Cocoa beach late Thursday night.

As to other SS cars with longevity into the early to mid 1950's, research is beyond us right now. We are a bit rushed also. Al will be happy to discuss it with you in Cocoa Beach.

Looking forward to seeing you there,
Patricia

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Prototype Rails 2005 Clinic Schedule


For those planning to attend Prototype Rails Jan 7-9, the clinic schedule
can be found on the Prototype Rails website at:

http://home.brevard.net/~brockm/prototyperails2004/

Mike Brock



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IC Hopper

Michael Aufderheide
 

Looking through some books recently, a few interesting
IC hoppers have stuck out. They have ribbed sides with
a short flat panel above. On one car the upper panel
looked to have stampings at a regular interval. They
look very similar to the rebuilt PRR H22a coke cars (a
la Bowser), that is low hoppers with an extended side.
In an IC book I was looking at they were very
prevailant. The two numbers I was able to see are
77036 and 75373. The hopper bottoms are in shadow in
all cases so I don't know how many bays they are.
Even with the sides extended their height is about a
foot lower than the typical offset-side IC twin
hoppers. Does anyone know about these cars and how to
model them?

Thanks,

Mike Aufderheide



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Re: Westerfield cattle  car

eabracher@...
 

In a message dated 1/4/05 1:36:47 PM, pierre.oliver@... writes:


http://www.elgincarshops.com/
Pierre, your models look very nice. do you have any trouble gluing the
sides to the ends on the Westerfield cattle car. There isn't much surface
for glue and i am thinking of adding a 2x2 styrene strip at each corner.

eric


Re: Westerfield cattle  car

eabracher@...
 

In a message dated 1/4/05 1:36:47 PM, pierre.oliver@... writes:



Eric,
While I've not built that particular kit, I have built 18 of
Westerfield's Fowler stock cars. Sanding the sides to get the flash
super-thin is the best way to go. When in doubt follow the instructions.
Palce the floor casting in boiling water for a few seconds and then
let it cool on a flat surface. That should help your problem.
Pierre Oliver

I will do both. Thanks.

eric


Re: Top Ten

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Mike Brock wrote:
I DID manage to squeeze some flexible weight in between the center
sill "I"
beams of one car. The point is...they don't derail. I will admit that
it
does help to have 48" radius curves and #10-12 turnouts. I also
happily run
unweighted Detailed Associates and Red Caboose GS gons. Does this
mean
that
I don't add weights to other cars? Not on your life...I don't want to
push
my luck.
My experience, on my Pittsburgh layout, was that you could
indeed run very light or unweighted cars, but only if the rest of the
train was similar. Likewise with heavy cars: they were no problem in a
train full of heavy cars. Mixing them, though, especially with long
consists, caused trouble. If you make the effort to go back and read
the ancient NMRA experiments on car weight which led to the "standards"
we now have, you will find the same discovery: it is CONSISTENT weight
which is most important, not exactly which weight value you have.
That's not to say that a few wildly differently weighted
cars
won't operate all right, especially if they do not show up in truly
long trains. It only says that you are, as Mike says, pushing your
luck.
That's my experience and my two centavos.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history
The Prototype has the same problem, especially when a light car is at
the front of a long freight. I remember a series of photos in Trains,
probably in the 1960's, of a long freight with one (or more) empty 85"
flat cars behind the motive power. The train was upbound on Horseshoe
Curve, and the light, long unloaded flat(s) derailed, just when there
was a photographer there to record it. Of course, it's usually easier
and faster for us to re-rail cars, but close to equal car weights can
eliminate a lot of heartache.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Trix NYC 19000 series caboose

DRGW482@...
 

I just got two of these. Someone mentioned in an earlier mail - I believe
the tank car thread - that these aren't right either. What is the problem?

Here are a few photographs of the caboose (somewhat big...):

Side view:
_http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20side%201.JPG_
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20side%201.JPG)

Other side in comparison to a Branchline Yardmaster DLW car:
_http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20side%202.JPG_
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20side%202.JPG)

An end view:
_http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20end.JPG_
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20end.JPG)

The roof:
_http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20roof.JPG_
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20roof.JPG)

and last but not least - the likely weakest part of the car: the
undercarriage:
_http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20bottom.JPG_
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/MartinGoller/NYC%20caboose%20bottom.JPG)

Now, the most glaring thing are the grab irons which are separately
attached, but way to far out from the body.
The end railings on the body have a somewhat strange shape that I haven't
been able to verify in photographs. Two horizontal small grab irons on the body
end are also not necessarily usual for the cars. Apparently they were there
early in their career, later photos show vertical grabs. But that may just
have been my small sample of photos.

The trucks are I think the standard Maerklin Freight truck. I do have a
older NYCNH&H caboose photo where this car has passenger style trucks. OTOH,
numerous other photos show these with this truck or a "NYC T-sectio caboose
truck" as it is referred to in "NH and NYC cabooses". The drawings in that book
may also have been a reference for the model designer, since the same window
arrangement is present. Many photos show other window arrangements

The chimney is too high. At least for the cars used in the eastern half of
the system. Wasn't the low cupola driven by clearance issues? So as modeled it
is not typical.

The undercarriage is very weak. No modeled detail on the floor. K brake
system (how long did these run with that??) and then you have the funky close
coupling mechanism everyone is complain about. As you can see, the stock coupler
matches the height of the stock BL car perfectly. What is missing on the end
beams due to the swing arm of the coupler is any detail that one would expect
for the handbrake.

The cupola appears to be a little lower than photographs. I haven't measured
it yet, just compared to photographs. What enhances that impression are the
relatively thick windows. They make the opening smaller than it really is.
Particularly at the small windows.

Here a few photos from the fallen flags web site (both 17000s)

_http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc17211adl.jpg_
(http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc17211adl.jpg)
_http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc17027al.jpg_
(http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc17027al.jpg)

So overall, its not a bad model, is it? Not perfect, but for me its
definitely an alternative to a $150 brass piece.

Martin


Re: Prototype Rails 2005 Update

Andy Carlson
 

-I sure am glad that Florida residents have 2 or 3
months to enjoy good weather. Now if only global
warming can create a way to make the the months
without "R" 's climate tolerable, maybe then you can
legitimately boast about your weather.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

. -- Mike Brock <brockm@...> wrote:



For those planning to attend Prototype Rails this
coming weekend, bad news.
Current weather forecasts indicate that a cloud MAY
appear overhead at some
time during Prototype Rails. Hopefully this will
occur during night time
hours. Temps will range from a high of 80� to a low
of 59�. Winds southeast
at 10 mph.

For those not planning to attend, continue with your
normal
activities...along with snow and ice [ whatever that
is ] and viewing dead
looking surroundings under grey, dismal, leaden
skies <g>.

Yes, after enduring what Florida weather CAN
deliver...read that three
hurricanes in about a month...I do get to brag when
things are again
"perfect in Paradise"...unless, I guess, you like to
ski down the side of a
frozen mountain.

And, no, we don't need a thread on weather, just
couldn't resist.

Damn. A leaf just fell outside.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Tariffs

Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
 

Which is why I put it in quotes and why they were checking on it after the fact.

At 11:37 AM 1/4/2005, you wrote:

Bob Webber wrote:
I can't recall the specifics, but it had to do with "rebates" and such
going back more than 30 years, and I believe it may have had something
to
do with a price fixing aspect of shipping (and to prove that at some
point
that there were alternates that cost less).
Gee, rebates have been illegal now for almost 100 years.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Freight Tariffs

ljack70117@...
 

On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 11:48 AM, raildata@... wrote:


I'm not sure that we are all talking about the same thing as "freight
tariffs". Most of the douements I have seen at the CRRM are ones that pertain to a
ceratin commodity or class of commodity, such as whaet, wool, structural steel,
hides, etc.

One of the law firms that was at CRRM recently was looking for triffs that
related to asbestoes. I think he represented a railroad and was working on cases
where employees handled the stuff.

I will check a few and seew if they give any data on orgination or
destination points.
The documents I have seen range from a few pages to an inch thick.

Chuck Y
Boulder CO
I do not know if it happened with RR loads but a lot of truckers when looking for a load home would offer a cut rat to get a load. When these trucking went belly up and did not pay every thing owed. The bankruptcy court rep would go after the shipper for extra money as the rate they paid was not published and was an illegal rate. The courts ruled they had to pay the difference.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
Seen it all, done it all, can not remember most of it.


Re: Freight Tariffs

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bob Webber wrote:
I can't recall the specifics, but it had to do with "rebates" and such
going back more than 30 years, and I believe it may have had something to
do with a price fixing aspect of shipping (and to prove that at some point
that there were alternates that cost less).
Gee, rebates have been illegal now for almost 100 years.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Tariffs

Shawn Beckert
 

Gene,

Contact me off-list regarding these when you get a chance.

Shawn Beckert

-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-2554753-37183-1104791724-shawn.beckert=disney.com@....
yahoo.com
[mailto:sentto-2554753-37183-1104791724-shawn.beckert=disney.com@returns
.groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of Gene Green
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Freight Tariffs




Included in a lot of stuff I bought on eBay was a bunch of
supplements to Freight Tariffs. At first I was just going to throw
them away but then I thought I'd put them on eBay and see what they
would bring. Today I thumbed through them to get an idea of what
they were so I could write a description.

When I first glanced at them they looked as indecipherable as Chinese
arithmetic but perhaps these things have some use for a model
railroader. Most are dated 1956, 1957 or 1958.

One item, dated July 1, 1965, sure to be of interest "contains a
list of firms receiving carload shipments under weight agreement,
showing commodities covered. Also, a list of stations and firms
receiving carload shipments of grain, seeds, soybeans, etc. under
official weight status in order to avoid unnecessary track scale
weighing, waybills covering such shipments should be noted by issuing
agent: 'Do not weight, Destination Weights applicable'."

States included are Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana,
Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana,
Nebraska, New Mexico, North and South Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon,
Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Commodities included
are grain and related articles, iron or steel scrap, pulpwood,
cotton, cottonseed, hides, pelts, tallow, wool, beets, raw sugar,
beans & peas, ores & concentrates, dried vegetables, scrap paper,
acid & gases, logs, fibres (sic) and more. To give an example, the
Ralston Purina Co. In Iowa Falls, Iowa receives grain, grain
products, soybeans, feed, limestone, molasses NOIBN, oils, phosphate
rock and tallow but not livestock. (NOIBN occurs here and there
throughout and I have no idea what it means.)

Section 2 lists only those stations and companies receiving
livestock. Section 3 lists only those stations and companies
receiving grain and related products. This 1965 item is clean enough
that good scans should result in case anyone is interested.

My question is, is there anyone in this group who has experience
using Freight Tariffs either in the real world or as an adjunct to
modeling?

Gene Green








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Intermountain Early Tall Doors

Scott Pitzer
 

It looks like I need to make my own 8' wide 3-panel corrugated doors (circa 1941) and I'm thinking the best way would be to combine parts of the 6' doors that come in Intermountain's "Modified 1937 AAR" kit. I can't find a part number for ordering these separately. Their site shows doors for the original 1937 AAR, and for the PS-1. The former would be too short and the latter would be too modern.
Anyone know the number?

Scott Pitzer


Re: Freight Tariffs - OPSig

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

NOIBN means Not Otherwise Identified By Name. Each commodity class has a
number of specific items called out as examples. Sometimes it's a short
list, othertimes it can be quite long. When that list is known to be a
partial list of what should fall under that commodity class then everything
else that belongs is noted as "commodity class-name NOIBN".

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Green
(NOIBN occurs here and there
throughout and I have no idea what it means.)


Re: Freight Tariffs

billjewett46304 <BillJewett@...>
 

Gene --

Please contact me off list, I would be interested in having, or at
least seeing a sample of, the "weight agreement" tariff supplement.
This could be a source of information for modelers who like to
include origin/destination info on their model waybills (not all do).

Bill
Operations SIG
www.opsig.org


Re: Freight Tariffs

Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
 

I can't recall the specifics, but it had to do with "rebates" and such going back more than 30 years, and I believe it may have had something to do with a price fixing aspect of shipping (and to prove that at some point that there were alternates that cost less).

At 06:48 AM 1/4/2005, CBarkan@... wrote:
I assume that these are rather old, consequently I am hard pressed to
understand what these recent "cases" are about and how these tarrifs have any
significance. Anyone care to elaborate?

Thanks, Chris

In a message dated 1/3/05 9:23:48 PM, zephyr1@... writes:

<< I was there last summer when there was a case where someone was looking up
a tariff for a case and literally the ONLY place they could find the answer
was the CRRM - not Northwestern, not the Archives, not CARRM, no where. So
people do come in and ask - but very seldom.>>


Prototype Rails 2005 Update

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

For those planning to attend Prototype Rails this coming weekend, bad news. Current weather forecasts indicate that a cloud MAY appear overhead at some time during Prototype Rails. Hopefully this will occur during night time hours. Temps will range from a high of 80� to a low of 59�. Winds southeast at 10 mph.

For those not planning to attend, continue with your normal activities...along with snow and ice [ whatever that is ] and viewing dead looking surroundings under grey, dismal, leaden skies <g>.

Yes, after enduring what Florida weather CAN deliver...read that three hurricanes in about a month...I do get to brag when things are again "perfect in Paradise"...unless, I guess, you like to ski down the side of a frozen mountain.

And, no, we don't need a thread on weather, just couldn't resist.

Damn. A leaf just fell outside.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Tariffs

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 1/4/2005 1:33:42 PM Central Standard Time,
ljack70117@... writes:
a lot of truckers when
looking for a load home would offer a cut rat to get a load
Damn! Is this like doctors' accepting chickens as pay? :^)

Sorry about this, Larry, all in jest, but I just couldn't resist. Looks like
my own kind of error!

Jerry Michels

158461 - 158480 of 195635