Date   

Re: The right prototype car for NYC red and gray pacemaker cars.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Larry King wrote:
"I have thought that to do the 10' IH Pacemaker cars I would use an
Intermountain 10' AAR box along with the doors ends and roof (?)(I
don't recall right now if the cars had rectangular panel or diagonal
panel roofs) from their GN 12-panel box. I haven't actually tried
this yet, but I think it will work."

These cars had rectangular panel roofs. The ends of the
Intermountain car will not work as they are pre-war Dreadnaught
ends, not the improved Dreadnaught ends of the prototype. I don't
have a set of them handy to see if this could be done, but perhaps
you can modify Sylvan DP-0042 (4/4 Improved Dreadnaught 10' Car
Ends) by removing the topmost major corrugation, carefully
preserving the minor corrugation below it.


"It seems to me that CDS makes the Pacemaker lettering as dry
transfers."

HO-97, NYC "Pacemaker" 40' steel box-early version, circa 1940
HO-164, NYC "Pacemaker" 40' steel box-final version, circa 1946
HO-396, NYC repainted "Pacemaker" box, circa 1954

The 1940 date on HO-97 is spurious as these cars didn't enter
service until 1945 and are obviously postwar design boxcars. I
don't have my C-D-S lettering diagram book handy and am not sure of
the differences between the sets.


"I should also note that the NYCSHS "Headlight" had an article on
these cars."

According to Robert Bogie (posted on the RPI website), the following
issues of Central Hedlight had articles on Pacemaker service:

- First quarter '87, a short article on painting the red and gray
and builder's photos (out of print)
- Second quarter '87, an article on the temporary Pacemaker cars
- Fourth quarter '87, review of models offered in the red and gray
scheme (out of print)
- First quarter '91, review of the C&BT kits
- First quarter '92, comprehensive article on Pacemaker service

Information on ordering back issues is online at
http://www.nycshs.org/headlight.html


Ben Hom


Re: WP 50' SS Automobile car modelling questions

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Charlie,

Thanks for your observations. I hadn't considered the differences between paint and stencil paste.

That said, lettering and striping on WP SW-1s (501-503), the S-1s (504-511) and probably the first eight S-2s (551-559) was specified as "aluminum". The visual color clearly is white in all surviving photos. The 1945 VO-1000s and the post-WWII S-2s and S-4s wore white paint. White was chosen by the FRRS for their preserved units repainted into this scheme.

Of course, this only can be definitely documented at this time for the locomotives. Until we have more definite data like freight car paint records, we are just speculating.

Interestingly, Richard Hendrickson found some evidence that the WP's 1947 AAR boxcars (series 20551-20800) wore aluminum lettering. Richard's research led to Branchline producing a special run of these cars in silver lettering. Branchline's production models of these cars have white lettering, which is how they appear in photos (though very grimey). Perhaps Richard would care to comment on this point.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Charlie Vlk wrote:

The paint used by the CB&Q was "Aluminum Oxide". It is the same paint was
used by the Rock Island, Boston & Maine and others and has caused all sorts
of problems for generations of modelers since.
The paint, in the barrel, is a dark gray (almost cadet gray) (direct
personal observation at Clyde Diesel Shop when obtaining a dipped paint
sample, the darkness may have been due to insufficient stirring (wish I'd
thought of that before I had those dark gray F units custom painted!!!)),
but when sprayed under pressure coats out WHITE. While there are at least
two distinct shades (one pure white and one tending towards gray) on CB&Q F
units due to a change in paint formulation starting with later F3s, then
going back to the original color with the F7s) the color is best represented
on models to be viewed indoors as white with maybe a touch of gray toning it
down from refrigerator white.....
There is, however, no silver color to it....it has no metalic look to it at
all. There were aluminum and silver stenciling pastes used on freight cars
and aluminum, silver, and other metalic paint colors used on other
equipment, but the "Aluminum Oxide" has a white appearance, even when used
as lettering. I have a DuPont number somewhere in my files if anybody needs
it.
Charlie Vlk


Re: WP 50' SS Automobile car modelling questions

Charlie Vlk
 

The paint used by the CB&Q was "Aluminum Oxide". It is the same paint was
used by the Rock Island, Boston & Maine and others and has caused all sorts
of problems for generations of modelers since.
The paint, in the barrel, is a dark gray (almost cadet gray) (direct
personal observation at Clyde Diesel Shop when obtaining a dipped paint
sample, the darkness may have been due to insufficient stirring (wish I'd
thought of that before I had those dark gray F units custom painted!!!)),
but when sprayed under pressure coats out WHITE. While there are at least
two distinct shades (one pure white and one tending towards gray) on CB&Q F
units due to a change in paint formulation starting with later F3s, then
going back to the original color with the F7s) the color is best represented
on models to be viewed indoors as white with maybe a touch of gray toning it
down from refrigerator white.....
There is, however, no silver color to it....it has no metalic look to it at
all. There were aluminum and silver stenciling pastes used on freight cars
and aluminum, silver, and other metalic paint colors used on other
equipment, but the "Aluminum Oxide" has a white appearance, even when used
as lettering. I have a DuPont number somewhere in my files if anybody needs
it.
Charlie Vlk


Re: WP 50' SS Automobile car modelling questions

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Stefan:

Let's stir up some controversy here! MDC offers these cars with silver "aluminum" lettering. I strongly believe the color should have been white. There are occasional references in WP papers to "aluminum" lettering before 1949, but I think this was actually white in color and used aluminum particles in the pigment. Such paint was used by the CB&Q on their early F and E diesels and it was WHITE. The same paint was probably applied to WP 501-503 when delivered. The color on these engines is noted as "aluminum", but in the few color photos that survive it was white. Silvery aluminum paint became standard (well, sort-of; "standard" meant very little on the WP) in 1949 with the delivery of the 6601 and 9001 gondolas in 1949 by Greenville. Comments?

As for the single-sheathed boxcars being repainted after 1949 with silvery aluminum paint, I think this unlikely. They were nearing the end of their service lives. Perhaps the cars rebuilt for woodchip service might have been repainted, but I doubt if many regular boxcars were.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

stefanelaine wrote:

I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.

My questions:

What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?

Did any other railroads have clones?

Any help would be appreciated
Stefan Lerch�
Duncan BC Canada






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Re: Soo diagram book

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

I'll go and do a search. Thanks for the pointer! PS: sounds like the
Soo diagram book is too new for me also... Ted Culotta's book has
already got data on the 1932 car.

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Phil Buchwald wrote: Does anyone
know
if there are plans available for these cars in some old modeler's
magazine?

Yes, RMC. I don't know the issue but the plans were reprinted in
the
RMC plan book.

Ed


Re: The right prototype car for NYC red and gray pacemaker cars.

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 



I have thought that to do the 10'IH Pacemaker cars I would use an
Intermountain 10' AAR box along with the doors ends and roof(?)(I
don't recall right now if the cars had rectangular panel or diagonal
panel roofs) from their GN 12-panel box. I haven't actually tried
this yet,but I think it will work. It seems to me that CDS makes the
Pacemaker lettering as dry transfers. I should also note that the
NYCSHS "Headlight" had an article on these cars.
Larry King
Larry,

Yes, the parts from the GN 12-panel car you mention WILL fit the
Intermountain 37 10' box body. Very good fit.

Dick


Re: WP 50' SS Automobile car modelling questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Stefan Lerché:
I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.
What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.
In the builder's photo of WP 12148, the hand brake appears to be an early
Ajax.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?
Probably not. The MDC trucks don't have the lateral motion devices (nor do
any other HO scale trucks) and don't model the prototype trucks' five
spring arrangement with a center spring, but their side configuration is
closer than any other HO scale truck.

Did any other railroads have clones?
No exact duplicates, but cars owned by T&P (with steel doors) and MoPac
(with wood doors) were very similar and can be modeled with MDC kits. See
my article on both the prototypes and the models in the July 1995 issue of
Railmodel Journal.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


WP 50' SS Automobile car modelling questions

oliver
 

I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.

My questions:

What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?

Did any other railroads have clones?

Any help would be appreciated
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada


Re: Pacemaker cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Bill and Tim,

I wonder if we can induce Martin to reintroduce these cars (both the
1942 and 1944 versions) with urethane roofs. I did not get any of these
also. Too many other things in the queue. Any ideas as to why he did
these cars with the injection roof from Intermountain, other than trying
to cut down the amount of work needed to produce a separate master and
to assemble the kit?

Thomas M. Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Bill Darnaby wrote:

As I reported in a post shortly after Naperville, Martin's story is that he
gave up trying to match the length of the resin sides to the length of the
styrene Red Caboose (?) roof used in the kits. I would assume, however, if
these were big sellers he would put up with it or work around it. I'm glad
I got what kits I did when they came out because they build into neat cars.

Bill Darnaby
For reasons I can't understand, Martin discontinued ALL of the
postwar 10' interior height box cars, including the SP cars. I
plan to order some anyway... 8-)

Tim O.



Sunshine 32.6 and 32.7 are not listed in the winter 2004-2005 list
Brian Carlson




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Re: Milwaukee 50ft. double door

dickybee2000 <rberry634@...>
 

Ambroid also made this car in O. The HO kit was numbered H-26 and was
produced by Quality Craft for Ambroid as part of Ambroid's Heritage
Line in the early to mid-seventies. I still wish I had picked up one
of the O scale versions.
Since the kits are replicas of welded side prototypes multiple layers
of sanding sealer rubbed with fine steel wool between coatings yields
a credible model of a steel car.

Richard H. Berry
Warsaw, Indiana


Re: helium cars (again)

smithbf@...
 

Jeff Lodge writes:
Based on who has the photos of these cars, would I be correct to assume
these cars were used to support Goodyear's blimp operations out of
Northeastern Ohio?

Well, it is not clear, but not likely that these cars were in specific
Goodyear service. The 3-tank He cars appear to be relatively early
versions. The helium tank cars were used prior to WWII to support the
U.S. Navy's rigid lighter than air carft (dirigibles) and during WWII to
support the extensive fleet of navy non-rigid lighter than air craft
(blimps) used in costal waters for ASW work. While the dirigible program
was still running, these cars certainly might have called upon Goodyear to
help inflate a dirigible, however they would also have gone to the right
and left coasts to the dirigible bases. After the progrma shifted to
blimps, some cars may have called upon the Goodyear plant from time to
time to provide helium, although it is likely that many of the blimps were
delivered deflated in boxcars or crates on flates.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Cocoa Beach

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Another wonderful meeting with a bunch of pretty
fine and generous people- in my mind an
extraordinary aggregation of some of most refined
and knowledgeable modelers in the field.

I even got my good and loyal wife to attend one
clinic (Jim Singer's great collection on the
"Oddities and the Unexpected"), and her
interested response was "I NEVER knew that!".

Mike Brock gives a great deal of himself to this
program, and how he does it all is beyond me. My
good neighbor, and Clinic Major Domo, Jeff Aley
was always "just around the corner" with a good
handle on the needs of the clinics (i.e.
unexpected digital projector failure, or an
instant scheduling of a repeat performance for an
oversubscribed clinic). I often wonder how many
of the clinics HE actually gets to see and listen
to.

The great plus that this meeting has is that it
seems to attract only immensely friendly and
serious modelers who are willing to "leave their
egos at the door" (Mike's good phrase), and
critically think about our hobby. That the meet attracts repeat personal attendance by some of
our very best suppliers speaks volumes. I observe
them they carefully listening to the comments of
some of the most critical modelers that I know.

Debauchery was not up to standard.

A leisurely Sunday morning couples breakfast with
the Mont Switzers, the Chet Frenchs, and the John
Greenes was a personal highlight. This was
despite the ribald catcalls of a group from this
list at the next table, who because the requisite
number of them refused to don dresses or be in
drag, were denied joining our company.

A suggestion that I have made to Mike for the
future is that the model table displays be
somehow elevated to a higher elevation so that
the large number of us present (of a certain age)
can more easily and effectively inspect the large
number of incredible models on display at
something approaching eye level. Not easy. If
others have ideas how this can simply and
inexpensively be done with standard tables, I am
sure Mike would like to hear from you.

In return for my good wife tolerating letting me
go whole hog for two days dawn to midnite (while
she relaxed with a book poolside in the 80º
sun), I gave her my undivided attention in New
Orleans the following week, during which time not
a word was uttered about railroads or modeling
(except for the necessary conversations leading
up to multiple streetcar rides!).

Anyway, wonderful meeting. Fine company. Learned a lot.

Denny








The Clinics were almost all excellent.




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


Re: Pacemaker cars

Bill Darnaby
 

As I reported in a post shortly after Naperville, Martin's story is that he gave up trying to match the length of the resin sides to the length of the styrene Red Caboose (?) roof used in the kits. I would assume, however, if these were big sellers he would put up with it or work around it. I'm glad I got what kits I did when they came out because they build into neat cars.

Bill Darnaby



For reasons I can't understand, Martin discontinued ALL of the
postwar 10' interior height box cars, including the SP cars. I
plan to order some anyway... 8-)

Tim O.

Sunshine 32.6 and 32.7 are not listed in the winter 2004-2005 list
Brian Carlson





Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Soo diagram book

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Phil Buchwald wrote: Does anyone know
if there are plans available for these cars in some old modeler's
magazine?

Yes, RMC. I don't know the issue but the plans were reprinted in the
RMC plan book.

Ed


Re: MILW rib side double door ID help

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Ambroid produced this very car as an HO kit at one time. I have only once seen these Ambroid models built up, and they were gorgeous- a tribute to the fine modeler (who lurks on this list) who like the ancient alchemist, successfully and quite realistically and neatly turned wood into steel!

BevBel apparently at one time also produced a 40' ribside kit in wood (by Quality Craft?). I have a finished one (not by me) on the layout, and aside from incorrect decals (correct for a SS USRA car), it too is visually very credible when coupled in line with Sunshine, Fifth Avenue, and Varney rib sides.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


Re: The right prototype car for NYC red and gray pacemaker cars.

lrkdbn
 

I have thought that to do the 10'IH Pacemaker cars I would use an
Intermountain 10' AAR box along with the doors ends and roof(?)(I
don't recall right now if the cars had rectangular panel or diagonal
panel roofs) from their GN 12-panel box. I haven't actually tried
this yet,but I think it will work. It seems to me that CDS makes the
Pacemaker lettering as dry transfers. I should also note that the
NYCSHS "Headlight" had an article on these cars.
Larry King


Re: helium cars (again)

Jeff Lodge <cvfanbratt@...>
 

Based on who has the photos of these cars, would I be correct to assume these cars were used to support Goodyear's blimp operations out of Northeastern Ohio?

Jeff Lodge,
Brattleboro, VT

oandle <oandle@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Guys,
The Akron, Canton and Youngstown Railroad Historical Society has
two pix of these 3 tank helium cars in its collection. Bob Weston, MGR
ACYHS Company Store


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Myers" <emyers5@n...> wrote:
Gentlemen;
In the February issue of RMC on page 110 in the section entitled
VANISHED PROTOTYPES by Kieth Wills, is a ref to a WW2 era Navy
helium car with just 3 large helium tanks.
He states that a kit was produced of it at one time by Vanden
Boom (?) but not sure of the scale.
Anyways, anybody know about this second "version" of this helium
car?? Ant pix, data available??
Earl Myers
Canton District PRR, 1944





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Re: AA Weight Station Symbols

Rob Adams
 

Tim;

The appearance of those would have been way after 1960, and to my knowledge, none of those represent locations on the 292 mile Ann Arbor RR. Perhaps one of you DT&I guys will recognize them, for control of the AA passed to the DT&I in 1963/64. I have seen "OW" used for Owosso in later years, maybe late 70's early 80's during operation by the Michigan Interstate.

Kind regards, Rob Adams



Tim O'Connor wrote:


Other post-steam-era symbols on AA box cars: BS SF? CW JK?


Frank,

From the list that I am working on to be posted to the STMFC files
and Ted
Culotta's web site, DI is the symbol for Owosso, WI used before
1960. This
is based on extensive information supplied by Richard Hendrickson.
It is
the only Ann Arbor symbol that I know about.

There are still a few gaps in this list; however, it is about as
complete as
we are going to get for now. I plan to upload the file after
speaking with
Mike Brock.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


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Re: AA Weight Station Symbols

Rob Adams
 

Frank;

Ann Arbor RR cars during that time would almost universally have worn the "DI" reweigh stencil. On the Ann Arbor, "DI" was the telegraph station symbol for Owosso, Michigan, the site of the road's main shops. Occasionally you might have seen a car with an "XD" reweigh, which would probably indicate that the car had been shopped and rebuilt on the Wabash at Decatur, IL. The Wabash was the AA's parent road from 1925 through 1963. I have heard that cars may also have been re-weighed at Toledo in earlier years, but I have never seen any photographic evidence that this was occuring during the 1940's-50's. If you have questions about specific cars, I may be able to supply you with more info or a scanned photo from the era.

Kind regards, Rob Adams

parkvarieties wrote:


Can any listmember advise me of the weigh station symbols used by
the Ann Arbor Railroad during the 1950's? Thanks.
Frank Brua




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Re: AA Weight Station Symbols

Tim O'Connor
 

Other post-steam-era symbols on AA box cars: BS SF? CW JK?

Frank,

From the list that I am working on to be posted to the STMFC files and Ted
Culotta's web site, DI is the symbol for Owosso, WI used before 1960. This
is based on extensive information supplied by Richard Hendrickson. It is
the only Ann Arbor symbol that I know about.

There are still a few gaps in this list; however, it is about as complete as
we are going to get for now. I plan to upload the file after speaking with
Mike Brock.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

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