Date   

Photo of B&O war emergency hopper, circa 1951

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

Following up on the discussion earlier in the week about B&O and C&O
war emergency hoppers, a photo of a B&O hopper was posted on Fallen
Flags today. The link is:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo30740amm.jpg

The date of the photo is July, 1951.

Mark Heiden


Re: Uses for Reefers (was Re: Wabash to the B&O at Decatur)

rberry634 <rberry634@...>
 

During the summers of 1964, 1965 I worked for the Milwaukee Road in their
freighthouse at Galewood (Chicago). Most of the operation was devoted to
distribution of Montgomery Wards merchandise from railcar to railcar and
railcar to truck trailer.

A couple of college kids got to work the "candy house" which was a separate
operation at the west end of the loading docks. Once the supervisors figured
out you could read and were responsible you became a candidate for that
operation. It was a great job which consisted of loading candy into
westbound refrigerator cars being used as RB insulated cars. They weren't
iced to my knowledge. Points west on the Milwaukee Road and Union Pacific as
well as candy destined for overseas in the Pacific were common. In June and
July, Halloween and Christmas candy for the Phillipines and Viet Nam were
what we loaded for those destinations. US cities were getting anything
Chicago candy makers produced.

URTX reefers, cleaned after bringing produce to the city, were sent back
west with loads of candy. Model a wholesale grocer and spot a load of candy.
Then send the car on to a produce terminal for its trip back east.

Richard H. Berry
Warsaw, Indiana


Re: LV Box Car Lettering

Richard Hendrickson
 

I have an old Athearn metal sided Lehigh Valley AAR box car kit
produced in the late 1940's which has the words 'Lehigh Valley'
above the reporting marks and under this the slogan 'Route Of The
Black Diamonds'. Is this a legit LV paint scheme and if so, what
time frame would it have been used on the cars? Thanks.
Frank Brua
Frank, I have two builder's shots of LV cars with this lettering scheme
(both also had black diamond heralds to the right of the doors). One was
built by Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1941 and was a 1937 AAR standard steel
box car with 10'0" IH, 4/5 round-cornered Dreadnaught ends, and Youngstown
corrugated doors - standard, that is, except for the fact that it had a
Duryea cushion underframe.
The other car was one of the first production Pullman-Standard PS-1s, built
in 6-47, but that isn't - of course - a suitable prototype for the Athearn
kit.

LV had other 1937 spec. AAR steel box cars with standard AAR underframes,
but I'm not aware of any photographs showing them with the "Route of the
Black Diamons" slogans. However, they may have been so stenciled when new
if that was the LV's lettering standard in the 1940s.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


M&StL freight cars

Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
 

Got the following information on M&StL freight cars from Gene Green, as I am
the owner/moderator of the M&StL group. Some very interesting information on
a series of freight cars. But does anyone have any information or ideas on a
reporting mark "A de S"? It would help solve the puzzle of where these cars
went.


Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com/

After World War Two the M&StL rid itself of most older freight cars and
replaced them with new all-steel freight cars. Evidence is accumulating that
fewer of the old cars were scapped (than I expected) and more went on to
other owners and users.

I believe I already informed the group about a number of 24000 series,
single-sheathed box cars built in 1930 that went to the US Army.

Quite a number were sold to the Purdy Co. and were repaired at Marshalltown
before shipment suggesting new users rather than scrapping. Here are some
examples:

The following 24000 series box cars were sold to the Purdy Co., rehabed at
Marshalltown and relttered as shown. Correspondence made a point of the fact
that the box cars should retain their K brakes. All were shipped out on June
22, 1951. I could not find AdeS or A de S in the reporting marks in my 1951
Official Railway Equipment Register.



24898 re#d A de S 1000
24872 re#d A de S 1001
24538 re#d A de S 1002
24944 re#d A de S 1003
24948 re#d A de S 1004
24366 re#d A de S 1005
24440 re#d A de S 1006
24636 re#d A de S 1007
24308 re#d A de S 1008
24688 re#d A de S 1009
24182 re#d A de S 1010
24472 re#d A de S 1011
24114 re#d A de S 1012
24306 re#d A de S 1013
24600 re#d A de S 1014

Another group of 24000 series box cars sold to Purdy were also required to
retain their K-2 brakes. If there is a diffference between K and K-2 brakes,
I don't know what it is. PCX is a temporary reporting mark for the Purdy Co.
and was probably only used while intransit from the M&StL to Hegewisch
(Chicago).

24180 shipped out on 7-23-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2400, K-2 brake retained

24346 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2401, K-2 brake retained
24566 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2402, K-2 brake retained
24488 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2403, K-2 brake retained
24292 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2404, K-2 brake retained
24572 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2405, K-2 brake retained
24450 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2406, K-2 brake retained
24886 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2407, K-2 brake retained
24466 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2408, K-2 brake retained
24034 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2409, K-2 brake retained
24380 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2410, K-2 brake retained
24042 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2411, K-2 brake retained
24362 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2412, K-2 brake retained
24106 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2413, K-2 brake retained
24686 shipped out on 8-9-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2414, K-2 brake retained

The correspondence was silent as to brakes on the next group.
24394 shipped out on 9-26-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2415
24586 shipped out on 9-26-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2416
24008 shipped out on 10-1-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2417
24610 shipped out on 10-1-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2418
24250 shipped out on 10-1-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2419
24086 shipped out on 10-1-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2420
24708 shipped out on 10-10-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2421
24854 shipped out on 10-17-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2422
24852 shipped out on 10-17-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2423
24300 shipped out on 10-10-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2424
24934 shipped out on 10-16-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2425
24692 shipped out on 10-16-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2426
24220 shipped out on 10-17-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2427
24456 shipped out on 10-17-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2428
24178 shipped out on 10-24-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2429
24882 shipped out on 10-29-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2430
24532 shipped out on 10-29-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2431
24098 shipped out on 10-29-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2432
24932 shipped out on 10-15-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2433
24534 shipped out on 10-15-51 to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 2434

63000 series, 2-bay, open-top hoppers:

63461 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6301,
then re#d WICO 2133 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63421 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6302,
then re#d WICO 2132 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63203 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6303,
then re#d WICO 2131 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63525 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6304,
then re#d WICO 2130 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63103 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6305,
then re#d WICO 2129 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63477 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6306,
then re#d WICO 2128 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63497 shipped on 11-12-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6307,
then re#d WICO 2127 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63579 shipped on 11-9-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6308,
then re#d WICO 2126 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.
63049 shipped on 11-9-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6309,
then re#d WICO 2125 for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Ala.


63139 shipped on 10-31-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6310
63351 shipped on 12-6-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6311
63505 shipped on 12-6-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6312
63183 shipped on 12-6-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6313
63105 shipped on 12-11-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6314
63269 shipped on 12-11-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6315
63555 shipped on 12-11-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6316
63031 shipped on 12-11-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6317
63307 shipped on 12-13-51 Sold to Purdy Co., re#d PCX 6318


Re: ATSF Bx-3/6

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Steve Shaffer:

I am completing one of Westerfield's Bx-3/6 modern boxcar kits #3651. This
car has the AB brakes and corrugated door. I need specific car numbers that
were in service in the 1950's, a source of photographs would also be
helpful. Of my reference books, the most helpful has been Ellington, Berry
and Martens book Stock Cars of the Santa Fe Railway. Which has a short
history of the Bx-3/6 class cars. It says that in 1951 200 Bx-6 cars were
converted to general merchandise service by upgrading to Ajax and AB brakes
to comply with ICC directives. They were renumbered to 40800 through 40999.
Number 40807 was retired in 1973. It also says that number 120530 the last
survivor of the original number series retired in 1969.

What does general merchandise service mean?
This statement in Ellington, et. al. is confusing, if not downright
misleading. But remember that the book was written many years ago when
much less prototype information was in circulation than is available today.
The photos I have of the cars in the 40800-40999 series (one of which dates
from 1952, shortly after the car was renumbered) show them as being
assigned to zinc concentrate service with the outer side sheathing stripped
off.

Would car number 120530 still have had KC brakes and vertical brake staff?
It might have had still had a vertical staff handbrake - few, if any, of
these had power brakes retro-fitted - but certainly not KC air brakes by
1969, since all cars in interchange were required by the AAR to have AB
brakes after 8/53.

There aren't many in-service photos of these cars that date from the 1950s.
The only one I have is a George Sisk photo from the Charles Winters
collection dated 6/8/50 of Bx-6 120913 which shows the car with corrugated
doors, KC brakes and a well weathered paint job that had to have been
applied before mid-1938 since it still had the "&" in the reporting marks.
If you're modeling a date later in the decade, you can safely assume that
any Bx-3 or Bx-6 which survived the stock car and zinc concentrate car
rebuilding programs would have had AB/vertical staff brakes. By 1965 only
two cars of these classes remained in revenue service, 120530 and 116279,
and as they obviously survived through the 1950s in their original form
(apart from doors and air brakes), either number would serve your purpose.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: LV Box Car Lettering

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Frank Brua wrote:
"I have an old Athearn metal sided Lehigh Valley 'AAR box car kit
produced in the late 1940's which has the words 'Lehigh Valley'
above the reporting marks and under this the slogan 'Route Of The
Black Diamonds'. Is this a legit LV paint scheme and if so, what
time frame would it have been used on the cars?"

According to John Nehrich, this scheme first appeared c. 1946 on
some of Lehigh Valley's 1937 AAR boxcars (LV 61000-61299, 61300-
61499, 61500-61899). It was also applied to their first order of PS-
1s in 1947, but not to PS-1s built in 1950.

The bad news is that the LV 1937 AAR boxcars were all 10 ft IH cars,
which the Athearn car doesn't match; however, I'd be happy with this
model from a historical point of view. It builds up into a nice
model that was excellent for its time (or for that matter, until the
early 1980s in comparison to shake the box plastic kits.) It's a
contemporary of the real thing, when once upon a time Irv Athearn
took pains to match some specific prototype details to some of his
boxcar kits (e.g., ACR on SP Overnight boxcars and carbuilder's ends
on B&O Sentinel Service boxcars).


Ben Hom


Re: PRR usra gon question

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Jan 28, 2005, at 12:03 PM, woodyp48 wrote:


anybody know what year the last of these gons had their wood sides
changed to steel?

thanks
woody grosdoff
Woody,

Rob Schoenberg's site indicates that all 748(two were lost) of the PRR
class G24 was converted to steel sides by 1937.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G24

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: PRR usra gon question

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Jan 28, 2005, at 10:03 AM, woodyp48 wrote:


anybody know what year the last of these gons had their wood sides
changed to steel?
It was early... before the LIRR's were even transferred to PRR reporting marks. There is a photo of an LIRR car before repainting and lettering to PRR. The date of the photo is 3/22/37, but the reweigh date is 3/35 and the reporting marks are not even legible, meaning it had been fitted with steel in place of the wood for at least several years.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


B&O War Emergency Hopper

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Hey Gang,

An image of a B&O War Emergency hopper just came up on the Fallen Flags
site. Here's the link:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo30740amm.jpg

Looks like it is class N-37 with a reweigh of 7-50.....At least that's
what I think I see.

Thought some of you may want to see this.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: 0.88 wheels: Anyone experiencing any problems?

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Charlie Vlk makes a good point. The min/max tolerance on the NMRA HO scale standards gauge is .025". If the track is .040" wider than even the NMRA minimum gauge, that's no reason to fault the code 88 wheelsets.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@...


Dan Hall / Southwest Scale Productions

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

Does anyone know if Dan Hall is still producing his
line of styrene Superior boxcar doors?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Re: 0.88 wheels: Anyone experiencing any problems?

woodyp48
 

seems to me that .040" is way off from what the guage should be. did
you mike the guage? i just checked a bunch of my old ME track/bridge
sections and they are DNO. have you checked your nmra guage for
accuracy with a mike to see how close it is?

woody grosdoff


PRR usra gon question

woodyp48
 

anybody know what year the last of these gons had their wood sides
changed to steel?

thanks
woody grosdoff


Re: 0.88 wheels: Anyone experiencing any problems?

Charlie Vlk
 

"It turns out that the guage of the ME bridge flex track is about .040"
wider than the NMRA standard..... but I'm not about to swap
out every wheelset in every freight car."

Isn't .040" enough of a defect to warrant regauging the track?? A soldering
iron and some metal gauge blocks should be a simple, fast fix.
Charlie Vlk


Uses for Reefers (was Re: Wabash to the B&O at Decatur)

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

Refrigerator cars hauled more than just food. I worked at a Johnson's
Wax pressure packing plant in 1966. Household and commercial products
were shipped in URTX reefers and RBLs, including the JWAX cars modeled
by Walthers. Non-pressure-packed products were shipped there also. Any
product needing protection from excessive heat or cold is valid cargo
for refrigerator cars. Spot and pickup reefers at some of your
industrial sites in your modeling operations.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry [mailto:jrs060@...]
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 12:21 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wabash to the B&O at Decatur



--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
"Chet French wrote:
While looking for something else, which I did not find, I came upon
a
list of perishable loads delivered to the B&O from the Wabash at
Decatur, IL, between April 13th and 23rd, 1951 destined to
Indianapolis. Hope it will be of interest to some.

That would make a nice train to model! Most of the cars can
be
done one way or another. The only "ringer" is the canned goods,
since
the NWX car is obviously in use as an insulated box car and would
not
have been iced."

Tony, you are of course correct here about the the NWX car
being used as an "insulated box car", but I wonder if many
people know that it would not have been necessary to use a
refrigerator car for this type of service at the time this
was being done. "Carriers Protective Service" on canned
goods was in force from October 1st. thru April 1st. of any
given year. This of course was done to prevent the freezing
of the goods in temperature swings the car might be subjected
to in transit. Unless the shipper requested a refrigerator
car be supplied for this movement specifically, and the
shipment was made prior to April 1st., he could have used
an ordinary box car. I put this out for everyone as it
may be of help for billing cars on our model railroads.

Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.












Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: PRR usra gon question

Brian Termunde
 

In a message dated 1/28/2005 2:43:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
smithbf@... writes:
Rob Schoenberg's site indicates that all 748(two were lost) of the PRR class
G24 was converted to steel sides by 1937.

---> Did they ever find the pair that they lost? <G>

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah
"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


Re: 0.88 wheels: Anyone experiencing any problems?

James Harr <bnchmark@...>
 

Stefan and list:

I installed a short length of Micro Engineering code 83 Bridge Flex
Track (the 6-inch or so piece that comes with their girder-bridge kits)
on a 26" radius curve. Well, when Atlas came out with their ACF 3-bay
Center Flow covered hopper (I know, it's out of range of the chronology
of this list... sorry!), they used .088" wheelsets.

It turns out that the guage of the ME bridge flex track is about .040"
wider than the NMRA standard; at least the piece that I used any way.
That caused those nice thin wheelsets to drop between the rails
sometimes; frustrating at the very least. So, that's one area of
concern; those thin wheels sure do look nice, but I'm not about to swap
out every wheelset in every freight car... HTH...

Jim Harr



Message: 13
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:32:44 -0000
From: "stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@...>
Subject: 0.88 wheels: Anyone experiencing any problems?


I'm thinking of upgrading to the narrower wheelsets offered by Reboxx
(I know, I know...get with the program;-) Is anyone having any
problems with these? Any differences in how you are weighting your
freight cars?
Any track which should not be used? I've got Micro Engineering
cd83,cd70 and Atlas cd83. Any thoughts on the best axle lengths for
Kato ASF and Proto trucks?

Thanks in advance.
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, BC Canada


Museum Colelctions (long)

raildata@...
 

Tony and Group:

In defense of the Colo RR Museum and Tom Madden's posting, I would suggest
you check the California RR Museum's and your University's policy on donations.
I am sure you will find that their policy is similar to the CRRM procedure
that Tom outlined.

In this day and age, no respectable museum or archival collection will accept
items without a document stating that the museum has all rights, including
that of disposing as they see fit. Some of this comes from huge collections that
museums or libraries took and now sadly regret it.

When I lived in NY State I was on the board of directors of a fairly large
non-rail museum and historical society. We had several employees and a
collection valued
at well over $10 million, much of it in paintings. Also was familar with the
operations of several othjers.

I attended several workshops sponsored by NY State on managing collections.
They all emphasized:

- Always get a full release stating the the museum owns the object

- Never take items on loan, other than for temporary exhibits

- Never agree to have something on "permanent" display.

Of course these rules are subject to negotiation and exception when dealing
with large collections or for truly significant items (where it us usually
specifed some cash to support the housing and cataloging must accompany the
collection). All this comes from instances such as the one we ahd where a family
took our museum to court to recover a Confedrate officer's Civil War uniform
(complete with blood stains) that their grandfather gave the Museum in 1920. This
happened after they watched Antiques Road Show and found the uniform was
worth $25,000. They lost since we could prove we had full title.

One very interesting work shop was conducted by the State Atterny General's
office.
I'm sure laws vary by state, but we were informed that in NY State the
collection of a non-profit incoporated museum belongs to the public. The board of
directors are there to manage and preserve the collection in the public's
interest. They cited several examples where the Attorney General came in and
replaced the entire board of directors of museum for mismanagement or using the
collection for personal advantage. Included board members buying items from the
the collection. The public ownership rules do not apply if the Museum is set up
as a foundation.

Sorry for the long dissertation but this is really a complex subject. Might
also add that when you have employees making prints in a darkroom from negs it
is pretty easy to calculate the cost.....and no, it isn't like going to
Walgreens for prints!

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


LV Box Car Lettering

parkvarieties <parkvarieties@...>
 

I have an old Athearn metal sided Lehigh Valley AAR box car kit
produced in the late 1940's which has the words 'Lehigh Valley'
above the reporting marks and under this the slogan 'Route Of The
Black Diamonds'. Is this a legit LV paint scheme and if so, what
time frame would it have been used on the cars? Thanks.
Frank Brua


Re: I think they're listening...

Brian Termunde
 

In a message dated 1/27/2005 8:44:45 PM Mountain Standard Time,
timboconnor@... writes:
I know this Athearn ad is out of the steam era -- but read the note: "Era -
1980s to present".

----> Thanks for pointing this out Tim. Kudos' to Athearn for doing this, and
Atlas as well. I hope that it translates into more sales for them showing
them that it's to their benefit (as well as ours) to go this extra distance.

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah
"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District

157521 - 157540 of 195529