Date   

Re: Uses for Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Koehler said:
The railroads did not want to haul empty reefers westbound. That's why they
offered them three for one or two for one to avoid the empty mileage
payments. Check item in the Westbound Transcontinental Tariff it was either
1 or 2, that offered the 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 reefers.
No argument. I merely stated PFE's objective, which was to serve their customers by providing cars for perishable loading. I would bet that in peak season, SP and UP swallowed their dislike of hauling empties, in order to make sure those high-revenue perishable loads were taken care of. Throughout the 1950s, perishables (via PFE payments) were the top freight revenue source for SP. You can find that in the annual reports. It may have been true for UP then as well, though I haven't researched that.
In the 1960s and later, as PFE lost traffic to trucks and had to lease its cars from the parents rather than buy them itself, I'm sure their position was less strong, and they became more cooperative with the parent roads; and the mechanical cars then becoming prevalent were much more suitable for westbound loading than the damp (if not wet) empty ice cars. So I'd say Paul's statement became more and more the rule as the sixties went on.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE R-30-9

Brian Carlson
 

Thanks Richard I happen to have a few of these laying around.

Does anyone want 6 pair of Red Caboose T-Section trucks? Make me an offer.

Brian J Carlson

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
I'm working on one of the Red Caboose kits for these cars in the
1950's paint scheme. The kit comes with T-section trucks. I realize
these trucks are not appropriate for my 1957 era layout. What would
be the most typical truck applied to the R-30-9's in the late
1950's. If it would help I could post the actual car numbers.

Brian J Carlson
Brian, in all of the photos I have of R-30-9s after the T-section trucks
were replaced, the trucks that replaced them were AAR with spring planks
and Barber lateral motion bolsters. No one makes that truck in HO scale
but the closest thing to it is Accurail's mis-named "Bettendorf" truck.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Re: CP minibox kitbash

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Well,

I stand corrected! I went to the meet this weekend in
Springfield, Ma and tripped over the F&C display. They put up a
display with many assembled examples of their models, including the
mini box. Long story short... I now have to assemble a resin mini
box! Now, I didn't take a scale to it, but it really looked quite
nice built up. (guess i'll have to find a use for that other radial
roof!)
One other question: The kit has three ends in it. Two without,
and one with a lumber door. I just briefly looked at the
instructions last night, but didn't see anything which described
which numbered cars received which end. Is there any data available
which shows how the two ends were divided amoung the series?

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald




--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@s...> wrote:
Phil, can you offer some comments on what it is about the F&C mini-
box kit ends that leads you to seek out another modelling option? I
have a few of these kits and the predecessor Yankee Clipper models,
and generally thought they were pretty good, but have not done a
careful critique.

Rob Kirkham


Re: Uses for Reefers

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

BuyGone Treasures wrote:

Tim:

During the late 1960's I worked for the SP as a Traffic Rep. We regularly
contacted our customers about using the refers for westbound moves. The
item in the TC WB tariff was still being published into the 1970's. During
the 1970's I moved into the Intermodel Dept and them to the Operating Dept.
The Southern Pacific did not like hauling empties that cost them mileage.

Paul C. Koehler
Paul,

Then we are talking about different eras, and procedures may have changed.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Uses for Reefers

BuyGone Treasures <buygone@...>
 

Tim:

During the late 1960's I worked for the SP as a Traffic Rep. We regularly
contacted our customers about using the refers for westbound moves. The
item in the TC WB tariff was still being published into the 1970's. During
the 1970's I moved into the Intermodel Dept and them to the Operating Dept.
The Southern Pacific did not like hauling empties that cost them mileage.

Paul C. Koehler

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert [mailto:tgilbert@...]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 7:32 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Uses for Reefers


BuyGone Treasures wrote:

The railroads did not want to haul empty reefers westbound. That's
why they offered them three for one or two for one to avoid the empty
mileage payments. Check item in the Westbound Transcontinental Tariff
it was either
1 or 2, that offered the 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 reefers. PFE management
was well aware of this item in the tariff. Remember the PFE was owned
by the SP and the UP. PFE management had no control over either
railroad. They could only request that the empties be moved west as
quickly as possible. From the railroads standpoint it was better to
move them west loaded rather then empty.
Paul,

I believe that what you are referring to was a WW II measure which was
extended until 1948-49 during the great boxcar shortage.

Tim Gilbert



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Re: Uses for Reefers

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

BuyGone Treasures wrote:

The railroads did not want to haul empty reefers westbound. That's why they
offered them three for one or two for one to avoid the empty mileage
payments. Check item in the Westbound Transcontinental Tariff it was either
1 or 2, that offered the 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 reefers. PFE management was
well aware of this item in the tariff. Remember the PFE was owned by the SP
and the UP. PFE management had no control over either railroad. They could
only request that the empties be moved west as quickly as possible. From
the railroads standpoint it was better to move them west loaded rather then
empty.
Paul,

I believe that what you are referring to was a WW II measure which was extended until 1948-49 during the great boxcar shortage.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Uses for Reefers

BuyGone Treasures <buygone@...>
 

The railroads did not want to haul empty reefers westbound. That's why they
offered them three for one or two for one to avoid the empty mileage
payments. Check item in the Westbound Transcontinental Tariff it was either
1 or 2, that offered the 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 reefers. PFE management was
well aware of this item in the tariff. Remember the PFE was owned by the SP
and the UP. PFE management had no control over either railroad. They could
only request that the empties be moved west as quickly as possible. From
the railroads standpoint it was better to move them west loaded rather then
empty.

Paul C. Koehler

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Uses for Reefers


Paul Koehler wrote:
Reefers were another breed. The ice cars with their narrow doors were
difficult to load and nobody wanted them, that why the westbound
tariff had the three for one rule for the ice bunker cars. This got
the cars west loaded rather that empty.
But remember that PFE could not care less about westbound reefer
loads, except as a favor to their parent roads; they got paid mileage,
loaded or empty.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give
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Re: Uses for Reefers

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Tony,
As I understand it, this rigorous control of the movement of their cars was
the entire reason for the privatization of the reefer fleets. The cars were
considered too valuable, especially "in season", to be allowed to fall prey
to the loose ICC interchange rules for RR owned equipment.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:05 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Uses for Reefers


Paul Koehler said:
There is no reason that a shipper/receiver could not unload a car and
turn around and reload back to any destination in the country. It
happened more that you could guess.
Not true with PFE and SFRD. Their agents all over the country worked
hard to make sure the empties went back west for reloading on their own
lines, especially in their busiest season, June-October. They were aware of
cars being unloaded at particular destinations and would try to prevent
confiscation.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE R-30-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

Brian, in all of the photos I have of R-30-9s after the T-section trucks
were replaced, the trucks that replaced them were AAR with spring planks
and Barber lateral motion bolsters. No one makes that truck in HO scale
but the closest thing to it is Accurail's mis-named "Bettendorf" truck.
"AAR" covers a broad spectrum, eh? A 1954 photo of PFE #93151 shows two
different trucks. Both have spring planks as you say. One resembles the
'Type Y' (2DF8) sideframe. An earlier photo of PFE #85210 clearly shows
this sideframe, and it does not appear to have the friction wedges which
(I think) identifies the Barber bolsters (or not?).

Tim O.


Re: Gondola help

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks for all the advice on the gons.

I forwarded all the post to the other guy and he would like to paint
one of his gons as one of the NKP cars after the N&W merger.

1.Does anyone have a photo of a N&W gondola?

2.Does anyone know of a decal source?

3.Nobody knows nothing about CGW gons?

Thanks again for any help, it's appreciated,
Clark 'middle man' Propst


Re: Uses for Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Koehler wrote:
Reefers were another breed. The ice cars with their narrow doors were
difficult to load and nobody wanted them, that why the westbound tariff had
the three for one rule for the ice bunker cars. This got the cars west
loaded rather that empty.
But remember that PFE could not care less about westbound reefer loads, except as a favor to their parent roads; they got paid mileage, loaded or empty.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Uses for Reefers

BuyGone Treasures <buygone@...>
 

Tony:

Reefers were another breed. The ice cars with their narrow doors were
difficult to load and nobody wanted them, that why the westbound tariff had
the three for one rule for the ice bunker cars. This got the cars west
loaded rather that empty. With the mechanical cars it was two for one.
This provision was popular with the furniture case goods manufactures that
had split loads going west. They could load one say for El Paso, one for
Phoenix and the third for LA. They would all reach their final destination
at about the same time. This in instead of all in say one 50' box that
would have to stop off for partial unloading at each city.

Paul C. Koehler

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Uses for Reefers


Paul Koehler said:
There is no reason that a shipper/receiver could not unload a car and
turn around and reload back to any destination in the country. It
happened more that you could guess.
Not true with PFE and SFRD. Their agents all over the country worked
hard to make sure the empties went back west for reloading on their own
lines, especially in their busiest season, June-October. They were aware of
cars being unloaded at particular destinations and would try to prevent
confiscation.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Help
save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
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--------------------------------------------------------------------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: PFE R-30-9

Richard Hendrickson
 

I'm working on one of the Red Caboose kits for these cars in the
1950's paint scheme. The kit comes with T-section trucks. I realize
these trucks are not appropriate for my 1957 era layout. What would
be the most typical truck applied to the R-30-9's in the late
1950's. If it would help I could post the actual car numbers.

Brian J Carlson
Brian, in all of the photos I have of R-30-9s after the T-section trucks
were replaced, the trucks that replaced them were AAR with spring planks
and Barber lateral motion bolsters. No one makes that truck in HO scale
but the closest thing to it is Accurail's mis-named "Bettendorf" truck.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: LV Box Car Lettering

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
LEHIGH VALLEY was RR Roman, ROUTE OF THE BLACK DIAMOND was in
that form of sans serif favored by the LV in which the
vertical strokers were broad and the horizontal ones narrow.
That typeface is called Optima. Probably an extra bold condensed version.
Yeah, I know, railroad lettering isn't a typeface per se, but it is based on
that.
Pretty amazing, those LV guys, as Optima hadn't been created yet. You can look it up.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Uses for Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Koehler said:
There is no reason that a shipper/receiver could not unload a car and turn
around and reload back to any destination in the country. It happened more
that you could guess.
Not true with PFE and SFRD. Their agents all over the country worked hard to make sure the empties went back west for reloading on their own lines, especially in their busiest season, June-October. They were aware of cars being unloaded at particular destinations and would try to prevent confiscation.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: LV Box Car Lettering

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson
Re: LV Box Car Lettering

LEHIGH VALLEY was RR Roman, ROUTE OF THE BLACK DIAMOND was in
that form of sans serif favored by the LV in which the
vertical strokers were broad and the horizontal ones narrow.
That typeface is called Optima. Probably an extra bold condensed version.
Yeah, I know, railroad lettering isn't a typeface per se, but it is based on
that.

SGL


Re: NKP 40' post war boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian Carlson asked about NKP boxcars. I have no info for 5200-5249.
But I have notes on the others from NKPHS Summer 1992 --

5200-5249 7' Superior doors, BLT 8-9 1946 PS Mich City
5250-5499 7' Youngstown Doors, Camel fixtures, BLT 8-9 1946 PS Mich City
YSD-1 (early style) doors, 4/4 IDE, RP roof, 8-rung ladders, AJAX hb,
APEX rb, 5250-5299 BARBER S-2 trucks, 5300-5349 ASF A-3 trucks

7000-7299, 6' Youngstown doors, Camel fixtures, BLT 8-12 1945, Ralston
4/4 IDE, RP roof, 8-rung ladders, AJAX hb, APEX rb, AAR double truss trucks

7300-7499, 6' Superior doors, BLT 8-12 1945, Ralston
4/4 IDE, RP roof, 8-rung ladders, AJAX hb, APEX rb, ASF A-3 trucks


Tim O.


Re: NKP 40' post war boxcars

Brian Carlson
 

Sorry Jim, the website is in my signature below. Go to the company store link and look under Winter 2005 specials. Prices are the same for both society member and non-members.

Sincerely,

Brian J. Carlson P.E.
NKPHTS Membership # 2972
NKPTHS Special Projects Director
Nickel Plate Road Historical & Technical Society
www.nkphts.org

NKPHTS, Inc.
P.O. Box 381
New Haven, IN 46774-0381


Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...> wrote:
Also if anyone wants to purchase the kits, they are on sale now at
the NKPHTS website (shameless plug)
And the URL for this website would be ???

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon



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Re: NKP 40' post war boxcars

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Also if anyone wants to purchase the kits, they are on sale now at
the NKPHTS website (shameless plug)
And the URL for this website would be ???

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: Uses for Reefers (was Re: Wabash to the B&O at Decatur)

William Hirt <whirt@...>
 

--- Jerry <jrs060@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Bill Hirt <whirt@s...>
wrote:
Bill, my mistake on the candy bar, you are
correct. You
must have had a bigger sweet tooth than I as a
kid!
Jerry,

I've always liked Milky Way and 3 Musketeers better,
that's how I knew (plus growing up in west suburbs!).

When I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, Curtiss
Candy Co was along I-294 south of O'Hare. Do you know
if they use to be closer to the Galewood loading
point?

Bill Hirt

158761 - 158780 of 196851