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Re: Conductor's books - OWRN
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Andy Laurent asked:
"There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outbound veneer load 6 days later) with the reporting marks OWRN. I cannot find that listed in my ORER or on the reporting marks databases online. Any thoughts? The car is listed as both road number 15516 and 155116, but the reporting marks are pretty clear." OWR&N = Oregon-Washington Railroad & Navigation Company, a Union Pacific(TM) subsidiary. (You'll find it in the UP ORER listings.) The correct road number is 15516, a Class B-50-6 boxcar DS built in 1910. (Source: Appendix C, Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-51, Terry Metcalfe.) This car is available in HO from Westerfield: http://www.westerfield.biz/cg650001.htm Ben Hom
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Re: WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Fred Mitchell wrote:
"The Accurail website shows three single sheathed boxcar models lettered for FtDDM&S, L&NW and WAG: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/3300/3367.jpg I understand these roads had a common ownership, and in Mainline Modeler, Aug 86, there is a picture of WAG 5014, which was actually a former B&M 1924 ARA Standard boxcar (angle braces run the wrong way on the Accurail model). What I want to know is, did L&NW actually receive such a car, either direct from B&M or handed down from WAG?" Yes. There is a photo of L&NW 5005 taken at Homer, LA in June 1969 on page 54 of Classic Freight Cars, Vol 1. It is clearly an ex-B&M SS boxcar with internal carline ("X29") roof. No 5000-series numbers are listed in the January 1959 ORER, so these cars made it to the L&NW sometime in the 1960s. BTW, here's another photo of the FtDDM&S and WAG cars: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-w/wag5240ajs.jpg "I have a couple of pictures of L&NW 1932 ARA or X-29 cars numbered in 6000 series, so L&NW 5004 seems to be a logical number." The 6000-series cars are neither 1932 ARA nor PRR Class X29 (NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES) boxcars. They're ex-B&O Class M-26A boxcars, identified by their replacement 5-panel Superior doors, ARA side sheathing pattern, and the "M-26A" class stencil that was retained when these cars went south. See photo of L&NW 6009 on page 28 of the June 1998 issue of Railmodel Journal, or this photo of L&NW 6040 on the Fallen Flags website: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/lnw/lnw6040ajs.jpg "If you look at the Accurail pictures, it's embarrassingly clear that the odd slanted lettering that spells out the full name of FtDDM&S and L&NW would fit the angle braces if they were correct, as can be seen in the MM picture of WAG 5014." FWIW, the Accurail car is also too tall. Fortunately, Funaro has the B&M cars available, sometimes in polybags for as little as $12 per kit: http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6000.html They also offer them with WAG decals: http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6001.html http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6002.html You'll have to come up with decals for the FtDDM&S and L&NW cars. Champ has reissued HN-147 for FtDDM&S; AFAIK, nobody did L&NW decals, but you can cobble up the lettering from Champ Private Name and Alphabet sets (looks like "LOUISIANA" will need to be pieced together). You can salvage the data from the WAG kit decals for either car. Ben Hom
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Re: Conductor's books - OWRN
Don Strack <donstrack@...>
Andy Laurent wrote:
There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outboundThis might help: Oregon Washington Railway & Navigation Co. (OWR&N) operated all UP lines in Oregon and Washington. OWR&N was incorporated in November 1910 as a consolidation of Oregon Railroad & Navigation Co. and 14 other companies in the states of Oregon and Washington. The Oregon Railroad & Navigation Co. was incorporated in 1897 as a reorganization of Oregon Railway & Navigation Co., which had been in receivership since 1893. The original Oregon Railway & Navigation Co. was organized in 1879. OR&N connected with UP's OSL at Huntington, Ore., in November 1884 and the OR&N was leased to OSL in January 1887. UP through its OSL subsidiary bought 50 percent of the OR&N stock in November 1889, giving UP control of this important link to the Pacific ports. Union Pacific controlled OSL from 1899; OWR&N's predecessor OR&N from 1899; and LA&SL from 1921. OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were leased for operation by UP in November 1935, and all four railroads were consolidated for single-line operation as the Union Pacific System on January 1, 1936. These separate OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL corporations remained separate as wholly owned companies until December 1987. On December 29, 1987, OWR&N, Des Chutes Railroad and Yakima Valley Transportation Co., were merged with OSL. On December 30, 1987, OSL was merged with UP, and on December 31, LA&SL, Spokane International (controlled by UP since October 1958), and Mount Hood Railway were merged into UP. Don Strack http://utahrails.net
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Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value
Ben Hom asks
It can only be modeled in the case of the 40 foot cars with 6Why cut out a Front Range floor if the same prototype can be and 8 foot doors. Other Front Range models are different than the Branchlines. The riveted 50 foot cars are quite different: 12 panel vs. BL's 16 panel. BL sliding door cars are useless for the SP, for example. Front Range also made a centered double door car with welded sides -- used by a few roads including SP. Tim O.
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Re: Conductor's books - OWRN
Andy Laurent <arlaurent@...>
Speaking of conductor books, I have a GB&W book that covers mainline
assignments (Train 1 & 2) for the first two months of 1945. There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outbound veneer load 6 days later) with the reporting marks OWRN. I cannot find that listed in my ORER or on the reporting marks databases online. Any thoughts? The car is listed as both road number 15516 and 155116, but the reporting marks are pretty clear. Ontario & Western? Oregon & Northwestern? The car is listed with gross tonnages of 21 inbound, 32 outbound. Thanks, Andy Conductor books of that era are hand-written, so some leeway canbe taken with the initials for a particular railroad.
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Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars
Schuyler Larrabee
Patricia, I think there might have been a mis-click here . . .I have no order
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outstanding with you. Just want to help you out. I can see this might lead to your questioning you own sanity, if it got to be an issue ("I was SURE I sent out . . .") SGL
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Re: (unknown) Canadian Railway Models
Schuyler Larrabee
You made me go look. I have two, the Canadian Northern car I mentioned, and an
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O&W car. Both 36' cars. Most of the hardware on the body was plastic, like the corner straps, and I think I ditched the plastic brake gear that came with the models and substituted brass parts beause I wanted to solder it all together. I think I built those about '75, and I did complete brake gear. I'm not so sure you have to go replacing stuff. Some sanding sealer on the sides and roof made the surface pretty smooth, but Tony Thompson will tell you those are >>canyons<< between each board! SGL
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Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Bill McCoy asked:
"I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell? The frames and appliances are worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD 40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted." The Front Range and C&BT Car Shops single door 40 ft postwar AAR boxcars have been largely superceded by models currently available from Branchline, Intermountain, and Red Caboose. If you have any C&BT 12-panel side cars with 7 ft or 8 ft doors, I recommend hanging on to them as there is no other kit available. As for the Front Range cars, I wasn't aware that they offered the 40 ft single door cars with full sidesills. You might want to hang on to them if you plan on doing any 1960s 40 ft cars, as the full sidesill will save you some work depending on the prototype. As Tim noted, you could replace the underframes, going as far as cutting out the ones on the Front Range kit, but I caution you against the law of diminishing returns. Why cut out a Front Range floor if the same prototype can be modeled from a Branchline kit? I don't know about you, but my time's well worth the delta between the selling price of that Front Range kit and the price of a new Branchline kit. If your cars are in resalable condition, I'd get rid of all but the ones I mentioned above. BTW, Ed Hawkins wrote up how to correct underframes for 8 ft door cars: http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/btuframemain.html "Also is there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes?" The CV underframes are from their NP stock car kit. They were marketed as replacements for Athearn, et. al. house car underframes; however, the kingpin to striker measurement is 5 ft, which is incorrect for post-1932 AAR boxcars. I purchased a bunch a long time ago to modify Walthers/Train-Miniature X29s, but they don't really work for that as the crossmember locations are different. They might work for other 1920s prototype house cars after narrowing - double check from your prototype information first though. Ben Hom
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Old D&RGW hopper cars
proto48er
I have two brass kits that need building. They are for PRR Glc
hopper cars. I already have two Glca hoppers and the PRR Glc's are out of my time period (3/15/1948 to 4/15/1948). I would like to make the following (standard gauge) cars from the kits: (1) A "cut-off" D&RGW hopper from number series D&RGW #18200-18223. These are shorter than the PRR cars and will be a challenge to build. They were built in 1899-1900 by PSCC and rebuilt by D&RGW in 1926. The top 15" of the car has been cut off all around, making it look more like a gondola than a hopper. These lasted into the 1950's in small numbers (4 in service in 4/1948 ORER). The Midland Terminal had a similar car (would be an easy conversion - it WAS an ex-PRR Glc) that was also cut down and used as an ore car until 1947. However, I do not think it was in interchange service. There is a photo of it in the MT book. I have an excellent D&RGW diagram for the cars, and I can do the conversion, but I need a PHOTO of the car after the 1926 conversion. (2) A "non-cut-off" D&RGW hopper from number series D&RGW #18224- 18271. This is the same car as in (1), but are in the original configuration - ie., they are 15" taller. These were built by PSCC in 1900 and rebuilt by D&RGW in 1926. In 4/1948, 3 cars were in the ORER as hoppers and 6 cars were rostered as covered hoppers. The covered hoppers were converted by D&RGW in 1942 by adding a wood roof with 4 hatches (total). They were renumbered in 1942 as D&RGW #18300- 18315. Both of these types lasted into the early 1950's also. My request is simple - DOES ANYONE HAVE A PHOTO of any of these cars?? I searched the archive and came up with nothing. They were probably in captive service in some out-of-the-way place in Utah that was so ugly that no one took a picture of them - almost certainly in ore service. These are neat looking old cars. They are almost identical to the PSCC cars built for UP, according to the diagrams for both. The UP cars were out of service by 1945 - of course, there are lots of photos of them. B&O had cars of similar length and design, but they were more narrow for some odd reason, and did not make it into the 1940's. I believe that someone must have photographed them! They were truly an anachronism in the late 1940's. Thanks in advance for your help! A.T. Kott
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Re: Bomb shipments
Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Feb 8, 2005, at 3:39 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
WRT CO and WRT for Warrior River Terminal, later IWC (Inland Waterways Corp) and FBL (Federal Barge Lines). Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912
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Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value
Bill, the hands down best, inexpensive, 40 and 50 foot, noncushion
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replacement underframes for postwar AAR box cars are made by Accurail. If you are willing to chop out the floor of the Front Range cars, or simply toss out the C&BT underframes, then the Accurail underframe is almost a drop-in. Now, these underframes are technically only correct for particular door widths, but if you can live with that problem they're great. The Front Range body tooling was very good IMO. Red Caboose redid the 40 foot cars and they're even better, but they used the underframes from their 1937 cars! Branchline and Intermountain make good postwar underframes too, but its not a complete floor + uf like the Accurail. The riveted 50 foot cars are great for... Southern Pacific! And only a few others. The welded cars can be applied to a number of owners, especially since narrowing the door opening or modeling a wider door is pretty easy. I don't know about the 40 foot fishbelly off the top of my head. Now that I think of it, Red Caboose did at least two different styles of tab sill for the 40 foot cars with 8 foot doors, something no one else has done that I know of. Tim
I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
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What Front range and CB&T kits have any value
Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell. The frames and appliances are worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD 40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted. Also is there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes? Bill McCoy Jax
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Bomb shipments
Larry Smith
If I'm not mistaken the WRR reporting marks were used by the Warrior River Railroad here in the Birmingham area. I also belive that Martin has a model of the 32 AAR boxcar that thye had. As far as the W of A being part of the Southern at one time, don't think so.
Larry Smith
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Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars
Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
I was stationed on an ammo ship out of Concord in the mid seventies and
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seem to remember six wheel Alco? switchers making all the moves to the pier. I routinely saw all the pier trackage but never saw the other end Roger H.
On Feb 8, 2005, at 3:56 PM, Denny Anspach wrote:
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Re: bomb shipments
Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "fredmit2000" <FredWMit@a...> wrote:
NC at 10:45Someonepm, 1/3/1944.One of the components of the old Southern was "Western Railway of else might verify this one way or the other. I think Wabash wasReporting marks were W. of A. In the 1943 ORER they had no cars in the 84000 series. FWIW there was a Ware Shoals RR Co but it was a short connecting line in S.C. and had no freight cars. Looks like Wabash is still the best guess. Bill Williams
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Re: Box car interiors [Was: MILW Rib-Side cars]
ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:unusuallyJeff, the MILW made their own welded panel doors, which were pointthin exceed theon ARAthen-current AAR clearance diagram.Sounds brilliant on Milwaukee's part; but the AAR, like the and MCB before them, had attempted to standardize interiordimensions of box cars for the convenience of shippers. You may think that another dunnage for their loads, the Milwaukee cars would have been anThen the Milw. car interiors may have actually been different. In the mid 70's I worked for a short while at the Andersen Window plant in Bayport, Mn. - served by the Milwaukee Rd. The guys who loaded the boxcars for shipment to wholesalers were all "old heads" who could look at the order and figure out in their heads how to load the car so that everything was as tight as possible to minimize damage. I was told that they would only load to a certain group of ribside boxes if at all possible, and Andersen Corp. was the reason that these cars stayed in service as long as they did. They were preferred to newer, cushioned underframed cars, etc. Ken Olson Western Wi.
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Re: bomb shipments
Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
It seems obvious that during WWII, the AAR rules regarding return of
empties were not followed, at least for priority military shipments Bill Williams
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Ordnance Works and Freight Cars
Michael Aufderheide
Denny,
Thank you for the fascinating account. I've found the aerial of the place from 1993. See: http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=10&X=1463&Y=10530&W=3&qs=%7cconcord%7cca%7c Make sure you get the whole URL. Regards, Mike Aufderheide Chicago __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
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Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars
Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
About ten years ago, about fifteen of us took our track motorcars and were treated to a comprehensive Sunday tour of all of the trackage in then very active Concord Naval Weapons Station on the north side of Concord, California. A short rail line connected with the adjacent Port Chicago Naval Depot on SF Bay, where the ammunition ships were loaded (and where the notorious WWII incident of the black stevedores loading the ammunition ships took place).
It was a fascinating experience, hampered only by an absolute prohibition on photography (very frustrating for a Sacramento Bee newspaper reporter and photographer with me trying to write a feature story!). Virtually every single bit of internal and external transport or movement of bombs and other ordnance was undertaken *only by rail*, and this only in a vast fleet of meticulously-maintained solid-bearinged silver boxcars that still had running boards, and (by memory only) seemed to be similar to, if not PS-1s (perhaps someone will know more in this regard). These boxcars were also principally used as mobile storage, and the track layout was so designed. There was track everywhere (101 miles of it in about 5000 acres). I have never seen so many turnouts, diamonds (straight and curved), or spurs anywhere. It was a boy's fantastic dream layout, given an infinite number of tinplate turnouts, crossings, and track. A given line would go along a corridor, and every so many hundred feet, spurs would peel off right and left into street-railway type curves, each spur ending in a thick concrete revetment surrounded on two or three sides by very high berms. Along the hillsides, the revetments would be cave-like. There seemed to be thousands of these, each sized to hold one 40' boxcar. This is how the ordnance was stored, ready to move! The lines climbed up the sides of hills. They interconnected everywhere. The maintenance of the track and roadbed was *perfect*. Perfect clean ballast shaped into a sharp prism. Ties perfect. Not a weed or blade of grass to be seen. All rail also "perfect" with no low joints, or visible or palpable wear. The railroad's GM (a former ATSF person) reminded us of the Zero Defect policy when one is moving explosive devices, and even a simple bump, much less a minor derailment was cause for the most intensive serious investigation, if not discipline. 15 mph was the drop-dead speed limit (as it was for us as well. Fouled spark plugs plagued us the whole day in this regard!). We were unable to take the line out onto the wharves (big disappointment), the reason for which I never understood. Currently, as I understand it, the Station is largely moth-balled, and the port Depot is now an Army facility. I presume that the hundreds of time-warp boxcars are probably still there, although I do not know for certain. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento
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WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?
Fred Mitchell
The Accurail website shows three single sheathed boxcar models
lettered for FtDDM&S, L&NW and WAG (www.accurail.com/accurail/art/3300/3367.jpg). I understand these roads had a common ownership, and in Mainline Modeler, Aug 86, there is a picture of WAG 5014, which was actually a former B&M 1924 ARA Standard boxcar (angle braces run the wrong way on the Accurail model). What I want to know is, did L&NW actually receive such a car, either direct from B&M or handed down from WAG? Hoping someone with an Equipment Register can answer, as I'd like to model it if it actually ever existed. I have a couple of pictures of L&NW 1932 ARA or X-29 cars numbered in 6000 series, so L&NW 5004 seems to be a logical number. If you look at the Accurail pictures, it's embarrassingly clear that the odd slanted lettering that spells out the full name of FtD..etc and L&NW would fit the angle braces if they were correct, as can be seen in the MM picture of WAG 5014. Fred Mitchell, Dallas, TX
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