Date   

inexpensive wire drills

ed_mines
 

Anyone know a good source of inexpensive wire drills?

I've been buying them from the company in FL that went out of the
model RR business.

$2-3/dozen was a lot better than $10-12 that many other places get.

Yes, they were margnial quality, but good enough to drill plastic
and resin.

Ed


Re: San Francisco Bay Area PM Meet?

Richard Hendrickson
 

Schuyler Larabee chides:

Actually, Richard, with all due respect (and there's quite a bit due) I think
you should look in the mirror. There's as much factionalism in your note
as in
whatever "attitude" might have come from Rob.
Schuyler, there's a lot of past history behind my reaction, which I won't
bore you (or other list subscribers) with, but in my own defense I'll just
say that I don't think those who are familiar with that past history will
consider my post to be excessively contentious. I hope my "take" on the
forthcoming meeting is wrong, and if it is, I"ll be the first to say so.
But at this point I'm not optimistic. Now, back to steam era freight cars.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Aren't the CV underframes from their NP stock car kit?

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill McCoy [mailto:bugsy451@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] What Front range and CB&T kits have any value



I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any prototypes to be
made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and the CB&T 1944 AAR 40'
box car shell. The frames and appliances are worthless but the bodies look
pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD 40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50'
DDs welded and riveted. Also is there any prototype for the Central Valley
underframes?

Bill McCoy
Jax





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Re: WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?

Fred Mitchell
 

Thanks, Ben, Ron and Tim. Made my day. I plan to more or less
scratchbuild both types of cars in O scale to run on my L&A (next door
neighbor to L&NW). BTW, the L&NW is still very much alive, connecting
with KCS (the old IC Vicksburg division) at Gibsland, LA. Recently
they have been running 6000 ton trains of scrap railroad rails about
once or twice a month from Gibsland to McNeil, AR. The rails are from
Russia, coming in from Beaumont via KCS. No doubt Russian "steam era"
relics!

Fred Mitchell


Re: WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?

Tim O'Connor
 

At 08:16 AM 2/9/2005, you wrote:

Talk about deja vu -- I remember seeing an L&NW "X29" car passing through
Kansas on the Rock Island in about 1972, give or take a year, and I got a
picture of it. I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure it was the 5004.
I have pictures of two L&NW ex-B&O M26's -- an M26a and M26c. One of
the shots is from 1960. Also the L&NW bought ex-SSW rebuilds.


Re: WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?

mopacfirst
 

Talk about deja vu -- I remember seeing an L&NW "X29" car passing through
Kansas on the Rock Island in about 1972, give or take a year, and I got a
picture of it. I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure it was the 5004.

One reason I remember it is that I built a model of it from a Train
Miniature kit, and at that time there was actually a Walthers decal set
for L&NW. The advantage was that the lettering was so simple that even a
Walthers decal set was good enough for this purpose. That was in the days
when we'd build anything if there was an available model that was even
remotely close.

Ron Merrick

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Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Denny,

Very interesting account. You used to be able to see some of this installation from the highway, but there was no way to stop and take photos. I drove past about three years ago, and saw a lot of interesting equipment from a distance.

The railroad was originally the Bay Point & Clayton Railroad, a shortline built to serve a large cement plant owned by the Henry Cowell interests at Cowell (the smokestack is all that remains, now surrounded by a small park and acres of suburban houses). The line never reached Clayton. The BP&C connected with the SP and ATSF at Bay Point; and with the Oakland, Antioch & Eastern (later the Sacramento Northern) at Clyde. It used two off-the-shelf Baldwin 0-6-0s, one lettered for the railroad and the other for the cement company (about 1939 they swapped assignments). A short 42" narrow gauge line reached the quarries on Lime Ridge. In 1945 or so the line was sold to the Navy and grew into the operation you saw. The final two miles beyond the base were operated a few months by the Navy as the cement plant wound down, then removed around 1947. Also of interest was an extension from Bay Point out to a large shipyard during WWI. This line involved a high-level crossing of the ATSF and SP mainlines. The war ended before this line went into full operation. The track was pulled up before the BP&C became military property, but piers to the fly-over are still there.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Denny Anspach wrote:

About ten years ago, about fifteen of us took our track motorcars and were treated to a comprehensive Sunday tour of all of the trackage in then very active Concord Naval Weapons Station on the north side of Concord, California. A short rail line connected with the adjacent Port Chicago Naval Depot on SF Bay, where the ammunition ships were loaded (and where the notorious WWII incident of the black stevedores loading the ammunition ships took place).

It was a fascinating experience, hampered only by an absolute prohibition on photography (very frustrating for a Sacramento Bee newspaper reporter and photographer with me trying to write a feature story!).

Virtually every single bit of internal and external transport or movement of bombs and other ordnance was undertaken *only by rail*, and this only in a vast fleet of meticulously-maintained solid-bearinged silver boxcars that still had running boards, and (by memory only) seemed to be similar to, if not PS-1s (perhaps someone will know more in this regard). These boxcars were also principally used as mobile storage, and the track layout was so designed.

There was track everywhere (101 miles of it in about 5000 acres). I have never seen so many turnouts, diamonds (straight and curved), or spurs anywhere. It was a boy's fantastic dream layout, given an infinite number of tinplate turnouts, crossings, and track.

A given line would go along a corridor, and every so many hundred feet, spurs would peel off right and left into street-railway type curves, each spur ending in a thick concrete revetment surrounded on two or three sides by very high berms. Along the hillsides, the revetments would be cave-like. There seemed to be thousands of these, each sized to hold one 40' boxcar. This is how the ordnance was stored, ready to move!

The lines climbed up the sides of hills. They interconnected everywhere. The maintenance of the track and roadbed was *perfect*. Perfect clean ballast shaped into a sharp prism. Ties perfect. Not a weed or blade of grass to be seen. All rail also "perfect" with no low joints, or visible or palpable wear. The railroad's GM (a former ATSF person) reminded us of the Zero Defect policy when one is moving explosive devices, and even a simple bump, much less a minor derailment was cause for the most intensive serious investigation, if not discipline. 15 mph was the drop-dead speed limit (as it was for us as well. Fouled spark plugs plagued us the whole day in this regard!).

We were unable to take the line out onto the wharves (big disappointment), the reason for which I never understood.

Currently, as I understand it, the Station is largely moth-balled, and the port Depot is now an Army facility. I presume that the hundreds of time-warp boxcars are probably still there, although I do not know for certain.

Denny





Re: inexpensive wire drills

asychis@...
 

Ed,

Something I've used for a long time is piano wire of the correct diameter,
especially for resin or styrene. The burr left when y ou cut the wire tot he
right length works quite well on these materials. A 3' length of wire will
provide a lot of drills!

Jerry Michels


Re: San Francisco Bay Area PM Meet?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson

None of this sounds encouraging. I got an e-mail back from
Rob the general tenor of which is "if you steam era guys want
to show up with some models, feel free" (with the unspoken
message being "but it ain't your show"). I wish it were
otherwise, as I'll be out of the country in March and will
miss Winterail and Martin's Pleasanton meeting, but at this
point it sounds like the April meeting is one I wouldn't
bother driving across town for, never mind making an 800+
mile round trip. Unfortunately, this kind of clannish
behavior on the part of the modern era prototype modelers
isn't new, though it's certainly tiresome. And I just got an
announcement of a similar meeting in the Pacific Northwest in
June which sounds as if has the same kind of narrow focus on
modern era modeling. If there's anything prototype model
railroading doesn't need at this point, it's this kind of
factionalism.
Actually, Richard, with all due respect (and there's quite a bit due) I think
you should look in the mirror. There's as much factionalism in your note as in
whatever "attitude" might have come from Rob.

SGL


Custom decals for sale.

paul catapano <hpcatapano@...>
 

I realize this offering is off topic for this list, but there may be
some interest so, we are offering a custom sheet of HO decals in dulux
gold with 44 authentic prototype names for PULLMAN
heavy-weight sleepers.



Each sheet contains one each name for 44 different cars, plus six
repetitions of PULLMAN for the letter board.
TWO sheets will completely letter six cars or, with the addition of
extra PULLMAN lettering, up to 44 cars.



As nearly as I can tell, none of these names are currently in print
elsewhere.



Each sheet contains 10 names for 12-1, 2 for 10-3 (CLAN), 3 for 12-2
(WHITE), 2 for 13s (-HOUSE), 5 for 14s
(PARK), 2 for 16s, 2 for 6-3 (GLEN), 3 for 6-6 (POPLAR), 2 for 7 DR
(WILLOW), 3 for 8-1-2 (CENT-), 2 for 8-1-3
(-TOWER), 2 for 8-4 (EMERALD), 2 for 8-5 (CLOVER), 8-B-Lge INWOOD CLUB,
10-B-Obs WINDSOR PARK, and
2-1-B-Obs GREAT DIVIDE.



For a complete detailed list, just ask (off-list, please).



For your two sheets, postpaid, send $9.50 to:



Jerry Weisman

964 Hancock Av

Los Angeles, CA 90069



Deadline is February 18, and then we go to print.


And I must remind all of you who are interested that NO REQUESTS MADE ON
THIS LIST WILL BE FILLED. You MUST contact me off this list if you are
interested.

Thank you all very much.

Paul Catapano


Re: GBW Reefers (WAS: Branchline Blueprint reefer paint)

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

Phil,
On MY GBW/WRX reefer box, on the bottom next to the bar code are the
words "Hatch type A". (I had to search a while to find where I had
seen that.) I don't think mine was a special run (#1211, I think,
like on the web site, which shows hatch type A.) But, if yours is a
different paint scheme, I bet the hatches remained the same.
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., "buchwaldfam" <duff@g...> wrote:

Thanks!
Not sure if it's "A" or "B", but I'll use the letter code that
is on the NWX car boxes.

While I'm at it, does anyone know of a source, book or photos,
for some good pictures to base a model of the 36 foot bunkerless
reefers which the Milwaukee Road used to ship Schlitz out of the
Beer Line? I think the reporting marks were DSDX (?)
I checked with Bob's Photo at Springfield, but they didn't have
any of that series.

Thanks again!

Phil Buchwald



--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@o...> wrote:
Phil Buchwald writes:

....I have a couple of these reefers, painted
in the Green Bay & Western scheme. The ones for URTX/MILW and NWX
have a letter "A" or "B" on the box to tell you which of the
optional ice hatch hardware parts to use. There is no such
letter on
the GBW boxes, and the instruction sheets are the same as on the
standard cars (the GBW was a limited run, so the instruction
sheet is understandable). The only photos I have of these cars are
from low angle....
Could anyone give me a hint as to which latches to use on the
GBW cars?


Re: San Francisco Bay Area PM Meet?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 8, 2005, at 12:28 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Jeff Aley writes:
We share the same concern. The photos from last year include some
very finely done modern diesels, and little else. I was hoping some
of the locals (e.g. Mssrs. Thompson and Culotta) could offer some
endorsement of this event. Otherwise, I'll wait for the Sunshine meet in
Pleasanton.
I've been in contact with Rob about a clinic, but have let him
know that most of my information and interests are pre-1960. Whether he
has contacted Ted or not, I don't know.
I haven't heard a thing.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
None of this sounds encouraging. I got an e-mail back from Rob the general
tenor of which is "if you steam era guys want to show up with some models,
feel free" (with the unspoken message being "but it ain't your show"). I
wish it were otherwise, as I'll be out of the country in March and will
miss Winterail and Martin's Pleasanton meeting, but at this point it sounds
like the April meeting is one I wouldn't bother driving across town for,
never mind making an 800+ mile round trip. Unfortunately, this kind of
clannish behavior on the part of the modern era prototype modelers isn't
new, though it's certainly tiresome. And I just got an announcement of a
similar meeting in the Pacific Northwest in June which sounds as if has the
same kind of narrow focus on modern era modeling. If there's anything
prototype model railroading doesn't need at this point, it's this kind of
factionalism.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Denny,

Thank you for the fascinating account. I've found the
aerial of the place from 1993. See:

http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=10&X=1463&Y=10530&
W=3&qs=%7cconcord%7cca%7c
Mike Aufderheide
Chicago
Mike, that sure looks familiar. I often fly from the north into the
Concord airport, which is just west of the ammo depot, and on right
downwind for runway 32 right the entire ammo depot is clearly visible out
the left side window. In fact, the instrument approach to runway 19 right
goes right over the ammo depot, though that's not an approach I often use
since my Citabria is strictly a VFR airplane.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Conductor's books - OWRN

Richard Hendrickson
 

Speaking of conductor books, I have a GB&W book that covers mainline
assignments (Train 1 & 2) for the first two months of 1945.

There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outbound veneer
load 6 days later) with the reporting marks OWRN. I cannot find that
listed in my ORER or on the reporting marks databases online. Any
thoughts? The car is listed as both road number 15516 and 155116,
but the reporting marks are pretty clear.
Look under Union Pacific. OWRN was the Oregon-Washington Railway &
Navigation Co., a UP subsidiary, and OWR&N 15116 would have been a wood
sheathed box car of class B-50-6, series 13698-15847 (155116 is an error,
as there were no cars of that number on the UP or OWR&N roster).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Jim Gillmore <TwoRail@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote:

Currently, as I understand it, the Station is largely moth-balled,
and the port Depot is now an Army facility. I presume that the
hundreds of time-warp boxcars are probably still there, although I
do
not know for certain.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

Most of the boxcars are stored in good condition adjacent to Willow
Pass Road in Concord and visible from the road. Take the Concord Exit
from Highway 4. HOWEVER, it is a busy two lane road and the Highway
Patrol and the Concord Police take a dim view of anyone stopping to
take photos -- highway safety and military security are both issues
that they get concerned about. The box cars are weathered all silver
with DOD reporting marks, and appear to be "standard" 1937 era box
cars with no special equipment. The station was built in 1942 and the
rail equipment probably originated at that time. Most cars now have
their doors open. For awhile after the station was mothballed, the
cars were stored with the doors closed, but about 2 years ago, they
were all opend up. I suppose this is for better security - someone
can't camp inside without being seen. Or perhaps it is for better air
circulation to prevent moisture from being trapped inside and causing
mildew (it's a moist, foggy area).

I believe there were 8 or 9 locomotives on the station just before it
closed. The ones that I have seen were Baldwins, painted yellow, some
re-engined with EMD prime movers.

Jim Gillmore, Concord CA


Re: Conductor's books - OWRN

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Andy Laurent asked:
"There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outbound veneer
load 6 days later) with the reporting marks OWRN. I cannot find that
listed in my ORER or on the reporting marks databases online. Any
thoughts? The car is listed as both road number 15516 and 155116,
but the reporting marks are pretty clear."

OWR&N = Oregon-Washington Railroad & Navigation Company, a Union Pacific(TM)
subsidiary. (You'll find it in the UP ORER listings.) The correct road
number is 15516, a Class B-50-6 boxcar DS built in 1910. (Source: Appendix
C, Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-51, Terry Metcalfe.) This car is
available in HO from Westerfield:
http://www.westerfield.biz/cg650001.htm


Ben Hom


Re: WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Fred Mitchell wrote:
"The Accurail website shows three single sheathed boxcar models lettered for
FtDDM&S, L&NW and WAG:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/3300/3367.jpg
I understand these roads had a common ownership, and in Mainline Modeler,
Aug 86, there is a picture of WAG 5014, which was actually a former B&M 1924
ARA Standard boxcar (angle braces run the wrong way on the Accurail model).
What I want to know
is, did L&NW actually receive such a car, either direct from B&M or handed
down from WAG?"

Yes. There is a photo of L&NW 5005 taken at Homer, LA in June 1969 on page
54 of Classic Freight Cars, Vol 1. It is clearly an ex-B&M SS boxcar with
internal carline ("X29") roof. No 5000-series numbers are listed in the
January 1959 ORER, so these cars made it to the L&NW sometime in the 1960s.

BTW, here's another photo of the FtDDM&S and WAG cars:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-w/wag5240ajs.jpg


"I have a couple of pictures of L&NW 1932 ARA or X-29 cars numbered in 6000
series, so L&NW 5004 seems to be a logical number."

The 6000-series cars are neither 1932 ARA nor PRR Class X29 (NO DASHES IN
PRR CAR CLASSES) boxcars. They're ex-B&O Class M-26A boxcars, identified by
their replacement 5-panel Superior doors, ARA side sheathing pattern, and
the "M-26A" class stencil that was retained when these cars went south. See
photo of L&NW 6009 on page 28 of the June 1998 issue of Railmodel Journal,
or this photo of L&NW 6040 on the Fallen Flags website:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/lnw/lnw6040ajs.jpg


"If you look at the Accurail pictures, it's embarrassingly clear that the
odd slanted lettering that spells out the full name of FtDDM&S and L&NW
would fit the angle braces if they were correct, as can be seen in the MM
picture of WAG 5014."

FWIW, the Accurail car is also too tall. Fortunately, Funaro has the B&M
cars available, sometimes in polybags for as little as $12 per kit:
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6000.html

They also offer them with WAG decals:
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6001.html
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6002.html

You'll have to come up with decals for the FtDDM&S and L&NW cars. Champ has
reissued HN-147 for FtDDM&S; AFAIK, nobody did L&NW decals, but you can
cobble up the lettering from Champ Private Name and Alphabet sets (looks
like "LOUISIANA" will need to be pieced together). You can salvage the data
from the WAG kit decals for either car.


Ben Hom


Re: Conductor's books - OWRN

Don Strack <donstrack@...>
 

Andy Laurent wrote:

There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outbound
veneer load 6 days later) with the reporting marks OWRN. I
cannot find that listed in my ORER or on the reporting marks
databases online. Any thoughts? The car is listed as both
road number 15516 and 155116, but the reporting marks are
pretty clear. Ontario & Western? Oregon & Northwestern? The
car is listed with gross tonnages of 21 inbound,
32 outbound.
This might help:

Oregon Washington Railway & Navigation Co. (OWR&N) operated all UP lines in
Oregon and Washington. OWR&N was incorporated in November 1910 as a
consolidation of Oregon Railroad & Navigation Co. and 14 other companies in
the states of Oregon and Washington. The Oregon Railroad & Navigation Co.
was incorporated in 1897 as a reorganization of Oregon Railway & Navigation
Co., which had been in receivership since 1893. The original Oregon Railway
& Navigation Co. was organized in 1879. OR&N connected with UP's OSL at
Huntington, Ore., in November 1884 and the OR&N was leased to OSL in January
1887. UP through its OSL subsidiary bought 50 percent of the OR&N stock in
November 1889, giving UP control of this important link to the Pacific
ports.

Union Pacific controlled OSL from 1899; OWR&N's predecessor OR&N from 1899;
and LA&SL from 1921. OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were leased for operation by UP
in November 1935, and all four railroads were consolidated for single-line
operation as the Union Pacific System on January 1, 1936.

These separate OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL corporations remained separate as
wholly owned companies until December 1987. On December 29, 1987, OWR&N, Des
Chutes Railroad and Yakima Valley Transportation Co., were merged with OSL.
On December 30, 1987, OSL was merged with UP, and on December 31, LA&SL,
Spokane International (controlled by UP since October 1958), and Mount Hood
Railway were merged into UP.

Don Strack
http://utahrails.net


Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben Hom asks

Why cut out a Front Range floor if the same prototype can be
modeled from a Branchline kit?
It can only be modeled in the case of the 40 foot cars with 6
and 8 foot doors. Other Front Range models are different than
the Branchlines. The riveted 50 foot cars are quite different:
12 panel vs. BL's 16 panel. BL sliding door cars are useless
for the SP, for example. Front Range also made a centered double
door car with welded sides -- used by a few roads including SP.

Tim O.


Re: Conductor's books - OWRN

Andy Laurent <arlaurent@...>
 

Speaking of conductor books, I have a GB&W book that covers mainline
assignments (Train 1 & 2) for the first two months of 1945.

There is a "round trip" boxcar (inbound feed load, outbound veneer
load 6 days later) with the reporting marks OWRN. I cannot find that
listed in my ORER or on the reporting marks databases online. Any
thoughts? The car is listed as both road number 15516 and 155116,
but the reporting marks are pretty clear. Ontario & Western? Oregon
& Northwestern? The car is listed with gross tonnages of 21 inbound,
32 outbound.

Thanks,
Andy

Conductor books of that era are hand-written, so some leeway can
be taken
with the initials for a particular railroad.

Jack Wyatt

158741 - 158760 of 197109