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Re: Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
Doug Brown <brown194@...>
Shawn,
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Yes they did. 3416 & 3417 were purchased from MILW. Detail Associates decal set #9004. Doug Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:Shawn.Beckert@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 6:18 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars In light of the fact that Ribside Cars has brought out an accurate version of this car (though with molded-on details), one has to wonder what Athearn is thinking: http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/0205mid/40horizbox_0205_mid.jpg Shawn Beckert, did WP really own some of these? Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: PRR X37 and X38 box cars (and some more)
Doug Brown <brown194@...>
From the diagram sheets and photos, as well as the time period, it
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appears that X29d, X29e and X46 share the same car body with different underframes. The X29d doesn't have the door reinforcements due to the narrower underframe. It also looks like the X29e reused the X29 side sills upside down with a full sill reinforcement like the X46. The clue to this is the location of the poling pockets relative to the end sill. PRR diagrams are mostly accurate in representing most details. The X29b diagram is a big exception. It is a modified copy of the X26c diagram including the modified Murphy end! The X45 looks like an AAR 50" car like Branchlines with side sheets spanning three side posts instead of the usual two. Removing the seam lines on each odd side post locations will yield an accurate model. Doug Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:08 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] PRR X37 and X38 box cars I think the one gaping hole is the X29b and d. And Steve Funero promised me an X29b some time this year! regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: Gatwood, Elden [mailto:Elden.Gatwood@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 5:56 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] PRR X37 and X38 box cars Doug; I am sure you, too, have thought about a bash from the Sunshine X37 for a basic X38. If Sunshine still offers the X37, X37A, and X37B, isn't that class pretty much covered, or am I missing some subclass? I agree the X38 is the biggest missing hole in PRR boxcar kits, but there are those that would argue a number of others. The real challenge would be doing all those unique rebuilds, many of which do not seem to have photographic coverage. I'll be the first to buy a kit if someone does them. BTW, doesn't Al offer the X23? And you have pretty good kits in the Branchline versions of X43B and C, X44 and X53. Oriental and Rail Classics did the X40 and X40B. Railworks and Bowser did the X33. We PRR guys are pretty fortunate. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: Doug Brown [mailto:brown194@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:42 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] X29 NYC USRA Box Cars Don't forget Bowser's X32 family. The different subclasses of X37 would be really great to have. Different subclasses had different IH by having different height transitions from the side sheets to the roof. All had 9'-7 1/2" high door openings with a 4" range of overall height. Look at the corner caps of the different subclasses. Almost everything else used a Z-bar to connect the two. The X38 and X41 had the same transition as the X37B. The X37 and X38 are also unusual in that the sides were made with one steel sheet spanning two panels. There are no lap seams between the first and second panels, third and fourth panels, etc. The diagram sheets also show this. The X38 diagram shows two sheets on the left and three on the right. Most of the roof sheets also spanned two panels. Only the end roof sheets and the center one on the X38 spanned only one panel. Doug Brown -----Original Message----- From: Ted Culotta [mailto:tculotta@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:54 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 NYC USRA Box Cars On Feb 15, 2005, at 1:31 PM, armprem1 wrote: IMHO There are far too Few Pennsy steel Box Cars other than theX25 - Westerfield X26c - coming from Sunshine X31 family - Sunshine, West Shore Line and Bowser X37 - Sunshine X41 - Sunshine These cover a LOT of cars in addition to the X29 family. An X38 would be nice, but we're hardly starving! Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912
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Re: How many....fleet composition and unserviceable cars
rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
Gatwood, Elden wrote:
snip > But, what made an even bigger impression on me was Tim's data onunserviceable cars on the PRR. I always wondered about the huge strings of rusting X29's, H21's, and round roofs, found in many of the major yards. IF you are modeling a big yard, you ought to model a feature like this. And, what a cool feature it would be! but also buckled or holed hoppers, deck-less flats, and contaminated or door-less box cars) around in each seldom-used siding. Whether these were the result of a continuous conveyor belt of forced set-outs, or otherwise, I will never know. But, some of these cars sat in under-used sidings for YEARS. They collected dirt, garbage, and gradually a small forest of vegetation.< In the midwest I have notice that strings of "bad order" cars are often found on sidings in very rural areas. I observed a string of bad ordered B&O boxcars in Caseyville, Ill in ~1963. In the last few years I have noticed strings of TTX flats parked near Danville, Ill. These stayed there many months before they disappeared. If one has the room on the layout, it also could be an interesting feature to model. Bob Witt
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Box Car Populations/Frt Train Consists
Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Dave Nelson says:
"It was from that set of data that prompted me to go looking for wheel reports to verify at the detail level what aggregate numbers were showing, which both Tim Gilbert and I have done, and then to form the obvious conclusion useful to modelers: plan your roster of non-home house cars using the percentages of each roads contribution to the national fleet." As I have said in the past, I don't believe this conclusion is completely correct. Note that I say..."completely". Here's why. 1. The evidence in my frt UP conductor book does not match Tim's...particularly for SP box cars....the number of SP box cars in mine being about double Tim's. It doesn't matter why...the result is what counts...if one is modeling the yr of the data. 2. We know from the evidence in my book and from video tape that frt trains were definitely NOT random receivers of box cars on the RR. Instead, they were grouped into particular trains assigned specific roles. This eliminates the opportunity to select randomly from the pool of box cars developed according to the per cent data. IOW, why worry about matching one's box car population to that on the entire RR if one is really concerned only with matching actual frt train consists..albeit compressed ones? My point is that I really don't want to maintain a fleet of box cars that matches that which resided on the RR during a yr. I DO want to maintain a fleet that allows me to reconstruct frt trains as they existed [ with compression ]. 3. The 1949 data that I have contains the consists of 35 frt trains over a period that equates to about 1/35 of the total frt trains during the period. This amount of data...given the non randomness of frt train consists...is so small and incomplete that, IMO, conclusions are subject to great error. As I have mentioned before, I also have data from 4 or 5 frt trains from 1953 which shows such complete disagreement with the population info as to make using that info for frt train consists very missleading. 5. The population information is useful to demonstrate long term box car appearances. It seems to me, however, that if one is going to try to simulate actual frt train consists, one needs frt conductor books or otherwise information containing such consists. That, regretfully, is not easy to come by. Nevertheless, that which is available warns me at least that long term box car populations don't reflect well the consist of UP frt trains on the Overland Route....at least in the spring of 1949 and the fall of 1953. How other RRs are effected is beyond my scope. I will again attempt to find the time to make my data available to Tim and Dave Nelson. The goal, of course, is to arrive at the best answer regarding box car...and other cars...presence in actual frt trains. Mike Brock
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Mr Glaab
Schuyler Larrabee
Please contact me directly.
Thanks Schuyler Larrabee
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Re: NYC "USRA" Boxcars - How Many is Enough?
Doug Brown <brown194@...>
You have to clog your sidings and yards with those unserviceable cars.
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Doug Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert [mailto:tgilbert@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:23 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NYC "USRA" Boxcars - How Many is Enough? Bruce Smith wrote: As I hope I indicated, that is for the total of all types of cars.The numbers are really close to 50% over quite a range of years and wereproblem is that they (the documents) didn't bother to separate out the boxcars or hoppers or whatever to give us a better idea of WHICH car typeswere circulating. So, all you can do is guess. Based on roughly equalDue to the Pennsy's inordinately high percent of cars unserviceable, perhaps a better percent of home cars on line would be those for serviceable cars only. The Operating Stats did provide the percent of unserviceable freight cars for each road. This percent is for Total Cars on Line. In a table in the ICC's BLUE BOOKS, the percent of unserviceable cars on line was a maximum of 1% with the remaining Unserviceable Cars being owned by the Home Road. The table below shows the 1940-1960 data for: A) Percent Unserviceable of Total Freight Cars. B) Home Serviceable Cars on Line - by subtracting Serviceable Foreign Cars from Total Freight Cars on Line. C) Foreign Serviceable Cars on Line - 99% of the Total Foreign Cars on Line shown in the earlier table today. D) Total Serviceable Cars on Line - One less the % Unserviceable multiplied by the Total Cars on Line of the earlier table. E) Percent of Serviceable Cars at Home. F) In contrast to the Percent of Total Cars on Line (Serviceable and Unserviceable). Percent Serviceable Cars on Line Serv+Unserv. Year Unserv. Home Foreign Total %Home % Home 1940 15.0% 149,387 60,101 209,488 71.3% 75.4% 1941 10.4% 135,112 82,994 218,206 61.9% 65.6% 1942 3.5% 138,173 103,435 241,608 57.2% 58.3% 1943 2.9% 119,009 119,015 238,024 50.0% 51.0% 1944 3.3% 111,929 125,924 237,853 47.1% 48.3% 1945 4.9% 108,680 123,789 232,468 46.8% 48.8% 1946 7.9% 107,232 120,897 228,129 47.0% 50.7% 1947 9.9% 87,293 134,374 221,667 39.4% 44.8% 1948 9.2% 96,224 123,256 219,480 43.8% 48.5% 1949 12.3% 114,573 89,636 204,209 56.1% 61.1% 1950 15.0% 70,420 113,007 183,427 38.4% 47.1% 1951 9.0% 74,237 119,469 194,007 38.4% 43.4% 1952 9.5% 78,865 109,780 188,645 41.8% 46.8% 1953 8.0% 90,470 96,817 187,287 48.3% 52.0% 1954 11.3% 90,776 89,874 180,650 50.2% 55.4% 1955 11.7% 83,407 93,309 176,717 47.2% 52.9% 1956 6.8% 87,030 93,309 180,460 48.2% 51.3% 1957 8.9% 84,954 91,905 176,859 48.0% 52.2% 1958 15.9% 100,001 65,466 165,467 60.4% 66.4% 1959 17.5% 86,738 76,713 163,451 53.1% 60.9% 1960 13.8% 81,806 79,121 160,927 50.8% 57.2% For 1944 because of the low 3.3% unserviceable car rate, whatever Bruce Smith's adjustments should be would be minor. On years when the unserviceable rate was high, an adjustment might be done in order to reflect a truer picture of cars being used on a model railroad. Tim Gilbert
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Athearn Milwaukee Road box cars
Nice paint jobs, very OLD tooling... A shame they didn't buy
Ribside Models instead of MDC. http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/0205mid/40horizbox_0205_mid.jpg
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Re: Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Shawn Beckert wrote:
"...did WP really own some of these [MILW Ribside Boxcars]?" Yes. WP obtained 6 cars from the Milwaukee in 1962. See Kirk Reddie's article in the September 1988 issue Mainline Modeler for more information. Ben Hom
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Re: X29 NYC USRA Box Cars
Charles Morrill <badlands@...>
Along with the UP now stands for the Usually Parked railroad.
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Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: <tgregmrtn@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 NYC USRA Box Cars
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Re: Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
The last line of the flyer says "These were peviously offered by Roundhouse." so other than taking a 3.98 freight car, assembling it and upgrading the paint and lettering it's still the same car. Although I know I'll have to inspect 1 or 2 of these for the club layout as we have a few Athearn lovers as members.
brian Carlson Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote: On Feb 16, 2005, at 4:18 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote: In light of the fact that Ribside Cars has brought outNothing new here. They must be the old MDC models. Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912 Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT document.write(''); --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. T --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
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Re: Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
Richard Hendrickson
Responding to Shawn Beckert's alert regarding MILW rib-side models from
Athearn, Ted Culotta observes: Ted is doubtless correct, since the broadside illustrations on the Athearn website, though they don't show the ends, do show rectangular panel roofs, as on the old MDC models, rather than the double-panel roofs on the prototype cars and the Rib Side models. Of course, the Athearn/MDC models will be RTR, and though they are radically inaccurate representations of the MILW prototype cars, they will doubtless appeal to those trainset bozos who wouldn't consider actually building a freight car model - a description that fits no subscriber to this list, needless to say. Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Re: Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
steamgene@...
That's what they said. It's an insult for these to be sold assembled.
How long does it take to put a MDC kit together? Five minutes? Twenty if you paint the trucks? Gene Moser From: Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>Boxcars 40horizbox_0205_mid.jpg Nothing new here. They must be the old MDC models.
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Re: Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Feb 16, 2005, at 4:18 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:
In light of the fact that Ribside Cars has brought outNothing new here. They must be the old MDC models. Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912
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Coming in June - Athearn 40' Ribside Boxcars
Shawn Beckert
In light of the fact that Ribside Cars has brought out
an accurate version of this car (though with molded-on details), one has to wonder what Athearn is thinking: http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/0205mid/40horizbox_0205_mid.jpg Shawn Beckert, did WP really own some of these?
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Re: How many....fleet composition and unserviceable cars
Scott Pitzer
At least you wouldn't have to sweat the small stuff, like axle lengths!
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Scott Pitzer
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> Sent: Feb 16, 2005 3:31 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: How many....fleet composition and unserviceable cars Gatwood, Elden wrote: But, what made an even bigger impression on me was Tim's data onThis covers it in a nutshell. Gosh, what a great railroad to model. <g> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: How many....fleet composition and unserviceable cars
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Gatwood, Elden wrote:
But, what made an even bigger impression on me was Tim's data onThis covers it in a nutshell. Gosh, what a great railroad to model. <g> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: How many....fleet composition and unserviceable cars
Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
Those interested;
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After reading thoroughly the interesting data (much in previous posts and years) from Tim, Bruce, Ben, and others, I went back and looked closely at my area and era, and the photos available to me of same. What struck me again was the differences. As expected, my area (Pgh) was replete with hoppers, flats, and gondolas. There also seemed to be a disproportionate number of 50' double door box cars as compared to plain old 40-footers. But, this was the nature of the era and the area, which was dominated by coal, iron and steel, and auto parts manufacture. And, the almost complete absence of reefers and stock cars. But, what made an even bigger impression on me was Tim's data on unserviceable cars on the PRR. I always wondered about the huge strings of rusting X29's, H21's, and round roofs, found in many of the major yards. IF you are modeling a big yard, you ought to model a feature like this. And, what a cool feature it would be! But, it also seemed that there were always a few cars (mostly gons, but also buckled or holed hoppers, deck-less flats, and contaminated or door-less box cars) around in each seldom-used siding. Whether these were the result of a continuous conveyor belt of forced set-outs, or otherwise, I will never know. But, some of these cars sat in under-used sidings for YEARS. They collected dirt, garbage, and gradually a small forest of vegetation. When I read Richard's description about the "time machine" at La Mesa, I was brought back to this issue. I need DOZENS of bad order, or NEARLY bad order cars, on my layout. Non-revenue cars are as much a part of this time machine we are trying to re-create, as the revenue cars are. And the home road was a collection point for all the dregs of the fleet. Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert [mailto:tgilbert@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:23 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NYC "USRA" Boxcars - How Many is Enough? Bruce Smith wrote: As I hope I indicated, that is for the total of all types of cars.The numbers are really close to 50% over quite a range of years and wereproblem is that they (the documents) didn't bother to separate out the boxcars or hoppers or whatever to give us a better idea of WHICH car typeswere circulating. So, all you can do is guess. Based on roughly equalDue to the Pennsy's inordinately high percent of cars unserviceable, perhaps a better percent of home cars on line would be those for serviceable cars only. The Operating Stats did provide the percent of unserviceable freight cars for each road. This percent is for Total Cars on Line. In a table in the ICC's BLUE BOOKS, the percent of unserviceable cars on line was a maximum of 1% with the remaining Unserviceable Cars being owned by the Home Road. The table below shows the 1940-1960 data for: A) Percent Unserviceable of Total Freight Cars. B) Home Serviceable Cars on Line - by subtracting Serviceable Foreign Cars from Total Freight Cars on Line. C) Foreign Serviceable Cars on Line - 99% of the Total Foreign Cars on Line shown in the earlier table today. D) Total Serviceable Cars on Line - One less the % Unserviceable multiplied by the Total Cars on Line of the earlier table. E) Percent of Serviceable Cars at Home. F) In contrast to the Percent of Total Cars on Line (Serviceable and Unserviceable). Percent Serviceable Cars on Line Serv+Unserv. Year Unserv. Home Foreign Total %Home % Home 1940 15.0% 149,387 60,101 209,488 71.3% 75.4% 1941 10.4% 135,112 82,994 218,206 61.9% 65.6% 1942 3.5% 138,173 103,435 241,608 57.2% 58.3% 1943 2.9% 119,009 119,015 238,024 50.0% 51.0% 1944 3.3% 111,929 125,924 237,853 47.1% 48.3% 1945 4.9% 108,680 123,789 232,468 46.8% 48.8% 1946 7.9% 107,232 120,897 228,129 47.0% 50.7% 1947 9.9% 87,293 134,374 221,667 39.4% 44.8% 1948 9.2% 96,224 123,256 219,480 43.8% 48.5% 1949 12.3% 114,573 89,636 204,209 56.1% 61.1% 1950 15.0% 70,420 113,007 183,427 38.4% 47.1% 1951 9.0% 74,237 119,469 194,007 38.4% 43.4% 1952 9.5% 78,865 109,780 188,645 41.8% 46.8% 1953 8.0% 90,470 96,817 187,287 48.3% 52.0% 1954 11.3% 90,776 89,874 180,650 50.2% 55.4% 1955 11.7% 83,407 93,309 176,717 47.2% 52.9% 1956 6.8% 87,030 93,309 180,460 48.2% 51.3% 1957 8.9% 84,954 91,905 176,859 48.0% 52.2% 1958 15.9% 100,001 65,466 165,467 60.4% 66.4% 1959 17.5% 86,738 76,713 163,451 53.1% 60.9% 1960 13.8% 81,806 79,121 160,927 50.8% 57.2% For 1944 because of the low 3.3% unserviceable car rate, whatever Bruce Smith's adjustments should be would be minor. On years when the unserviceable rate was high, an adjustment might be done in order to reflect a truer picture of cars being used on a model railroad. Tim Gilbert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links
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Kadee PS-2's - Private Roadnames?
Shawn Beckert
Sam Clarke wrote:
Unfortunately, neither of our undec PS-2s would be a direct suitableSam, does Kadee plan on releasing any PS-2's with private-owner paint and lettering? I seem to recall that there were PS-2's in NAHX paint for North American Car Leasing; it would certainly allow us to justify more of these on our railroads if some private roadnames were offered. Shawn Beckert
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Re: speaking of distinctive Pennsy cars..... the H33
Greg Martin
Scott Chattworth write...
"I've had an itch to kitbash a Pennsy H33 out of a Bowser or Kato 1,958cf covered hopper ever since the "paint schemes of the Pennsy's covered hoppers" issue of "The Keystone" came out. These were basically copies of the 1,958cf design except they were welded and had evenly spaced hatches, etc. Built circa 1953 just before P-S intruduced the all-welded PS-2/2003 in 1954, of which Pennsy was one of the first buyers, their H34 class. I gather they were among the first general-service covered hopper fleets to come with roller bearing trucks. Is this correct?" As a matter of fact the first PRR car to have been equiped with roller bearing trucks. I did the car years ago in Mainline Modeler. I used the old ECW car and I was never really happy with it. Since then I Richard Burg printed up a couple of great shots of the cars for me and lectured me on the fact that the car was built with "Zee" braces not REFC (round edged flanged channels)... YIKES! So I am going to start a second car in the future and would like to use the Bowser car as well. I have the information (in my article) on the correct hatch spacing and now know the spacing on the ribs on the top of the car as well. So starting over is no big deal now that I have done it before. The ECW car has a strange pitch to the roof and the Bowser car is a better starting point. I will share what I know. Great car! "Anyone built one of these yet? My abuilding H30 will need company. Seems to be fairly straightfoward: Make a new roof using DA square hatches. Slap a comparitively tall end sheet over the end bracing. What is the size of the side stakes? Am I going to have to shave off all the stakes on a Bowser body? Sit it on Athearn-Genesis's "70-ton" roller bearing trucks with the rotating bearing caps. Paint it Freight Car Color (probably the more brownish shade, not iron oxide), and weather to taste. Not much here, since the layout it will run on is set in western Pennsylvania in 1954-55. Thoughts? Scott C" The stakes are the correct spacing so my thought are to sheath over the top with .005" just slightly wider than the ribs so the eyes pereceive the edge and resheath the roof (that's a given) as it has a lip edge eve like a boxcar of the era. Paint it a PRR FCC and yes wweather to taste... There is a paint and lettering diagram for the car when painted gray (SP Lettering Gray... 3^)...) but in a long discussion with Richard Burg he doesn't believe enough cars were repainted in this scheme to warrent it, at least there is a lack of photo documentation to support it... Greg Martin
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Re: Kadee PS-2's - Private Roadnames?
SamClarke
Hello Shawn,
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Yes, we plan on doing several of the private roads, it's just a matter of time. It's a very slow process of getting to all the requests with only one road name a month. Sam Clarke Kadee Quality Products
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: [STMFC] Kadee PS-2's - Private Roadnames?
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