Date   

PRR Stock Cars - Final Dates in Revenue Service

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Looking for an assist to help fill gaps in my ORER coverage to
determine final dates in revenue service for the following PRR stock
car classes for an upcoming article in The Keystone Modeler:

K7 (7/1950 - 15, none listed in 1/1955)
K7A (10/1963 - 3, none listed in 4/1968)
K8 (10/1963 - 2, none listed in 4/1968)

Thanks in advance!


Ben Hom


Re: small roads freight car models

Richard Hendrickson
 

Elden Gatwood writes:

I know of some small roads represented in model form by Westerfield and
Sunshine, but I was wondering if you have ever seen any models of
(accurate) freight cars, or good photo/data resources for the following:
I'm responding only on those RRs for whose cars I have photographic evidence.

Delray
Delray Connecting RR owned about 150 hopper cars and 70 41' gondolas. The
gons were 10 panel steel cars and could be kitbashed from an MDC or
Sunshine kit. Lettering would have to be done one character at a time.

EJ&E
Hardly a small RR, and others have pointed out that Sunshine has, in the
past, offered kits for a couple of EJ&E box cars, and also that L-L did a
factory lettered EJ&E AAR 50 ton flat car. EJ&E also had a lot of 50'
steel mill gons with straight side sills and fishbelly center sills, and
many years ago I managed to kitbash a fairly decent replica of one of them
by cutting up a couple of Athearn gondola bodies into many sections and
re-assembling the pieces.

IHB
Again, IHB hardly qualifies as "small." As someone else on the list has
noted, this NYC subsidiary had AAR box cars built in the Central's Despatch
Shops, both 10' and 10'6" IH versions, and AAR 70 ton flat cars (Sunshine).
They also had 52'6" war emergency composite gondolas as modeld by Tichy
(IHB 6000-6299) as well as 25 NYC-design 70 ton covered hoppers for which
there is an F&C/North Shore Line resin kit.

Koppers
Almost entirely tank cars, most of them insulated. No correct models at
present, but one is said to be under development, and if it materializes,
it will be offered with Koppers P/L. In later years, Koppers also operated
some container gondolas which look as if they might have been ex-PRR cars.

Lake Terminal
Owned both 40' and 50' mill gons. The 50' cars had 14 panels, straight
side sills, and fishbelly center sills. The 40' cars were very similar to
cars owned by the Newburgh & South Shore, and in later years the Lake
Terminal absorbed the NSS fleet. I have kitbashed a model of an NSS car
from an MDC gon and the LT cars could be kitbashed in the same fashion.
The 50' cars would be more of a problem,though it might be possible to
kitbash them as well. Lettering would be a problem in either case.

Montour
Lots of USRA design 1880 cu. ft. twin hoppers (Tichy, Accurail). Walthers
once made decals, but they would be hard to find now.

McKeesport Connecting
A hundred 50'6" mill gondolas with 13 side panels, straight side sills, and
fishbelly center sills. Again, as with the EJ&E mill gons, a kitbash might
be possible but not easy.

Pgh & Shawmut
The Shawmutt fleet consisted almost entirely of hopper cars, none of which
appear to be of a standard design that has been modeled or can be easily
kitbashed.

Union RR (of Pgh; the USS subsidiary)
A sizeable fleet, mostly twin hoppers (including USRA-design cars) and mill
gondolas. The most numerous mill gons were 50'6" with straignt side sills,
fishbelly center sills, and an odd arrangement of side posts; they also had
40' 13 panel gons. Either would be difficult to kitbash.

Youngstown & Northern
A ragtag collection of old twin hoppers and 40' low side mill gons, the
latter very similar to the gons owned by the Newburgh & South shore though
lower in height. For modeling, see Lake Terminal above.

In short - Elden, you may want to contemplate some easier modeling projects.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Milw. Road Rib-Side Cars

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

Has anyone tried to figure out what percentage of the national
box car fleet was made up of Milwaukee's rib-side cars? I have
two of the Rib Side kits, and think that's probably enough of
a representation on my late Fifties-early Sixties railroad, but
that's really an uneducated guess. Any thoughts on this?

Shawn Beckert


Re: Milw. Road Rib-Side Cars

sctry <jgreedy@...>
 

Ed,

These same comments were also posted in the files section under the
folder on Milw Rib Side Cars.

John Greedy

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@s...> wrote:
STMFC,
I have been asked by Pat Wider to share with you the following
information he has compiled on Milwaukee Road rib-side cars. This
and
more will be in an article in a future volume of Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia. Please advise if you have any information to the
contrary.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
[snip]


Re: Sunshine gons

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 24, 2005, at 8:25 AM, ed_mines wrote:

I haven't seen any recent ads for these cars although I remember a
small photo of a C&O 40 ft. gon similar to the MDC car. I've heard
that Sunshine is having problems casting the one piece bodies. I
know some of you know Martin Lofton and see him at various shows.
Does anyone have the inside story?
**** I have no knowledge of any of the issues or non-issues related to casting of these cars. **** What I can offer is that he is pouring the "one-piece" bodies that are not actually bodies, but four-sided, one-piece castings of the sides and ends. Full blown one-piece casting is what Al and Steve Funaro do and involves a more complex process than what martin did for these gons.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Lumber trains and SP box cars from Fraley

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

While beginning a look through my Fraley for autos & auto parts, I notice three "lumber trains" heading east. The consists of these three trains are interesting primarily because of the presence and lack thereof of SP cars. The first train on Mar 3, '49, was 77 cars in length and contained 27 SP cars carrying lumber. Of the 27, 25 were box cars and 2 were flats. Of the 25 box cars, 9 were 50 ft long. Two additional SP box cars were in the train...40 fters carrying paper and something unreadable. There were 21 cars of other RRs in the train carrying lumber. Thus, 35% of the train were SP box cars, 32.5% were SP box cars carrying lumber and 62% were cars carrying lumber. Compare this to a train on Apr 7, '49, which contained 98 cars. Of these, 58 carried lumber and 4 were SP box cars. One more SP box car was in the train giving SP box cars a 5% presence....closer to the national average. The third train, on Apr 16, 1949, contained 93 cars. Of these, 34 were SP box cars, 32 carrying lumber. 27 other RR cars were also carrying lumber. 36.6% of the cars were SP box cars, 34.4% were SP box cars carrying carrying lumber. 27 other cars were also carrying lumber giving lumber content cars 63.4% of the train. Trains 1 & 3 are remarkably similar in content...as far as lumber and SP box cars is concerned. I am surprised at the small number of flat cars carrying lumber.

Fraley uses several terms for contents that I'm not sure of. He uses "CO" for company [ UP ] and adds "L" or "lump" followed by "Coal" for company lump coal, presumably for steam loco use. He uses "Co RM" or "RM company". I'm not sure what the "RM" is. He also uses "Xa", "Xb", "Xg", "Xh" and "Xr". No idea what they mean. I'm reasonably sure "Xt" is for empty.

Mike Brock


Sunshine gons

ed_mines
 

I think I'm more of an open top freight car enthusiast than most and
the many offerings for one piece gons from Sunshine had me very
interested.

I've never received a flyer for these cars. I am a sometime customer
having placed at least a dozen orders including one within the last
year.

I haven't seen any recent ads for these cars although I remember a
small photo of a C&O 40 ft. gon similar to the MDC car. I've heard
that Sunshine is having problems casting the one piece bodies. I
know some of you know Martin Lofton and see him at various shows.
Does anyone have the inside story?

Ed


old Westefield kits

ed_mines
 

The old Westerfield kits that occasionally show up in hobby shops
and on Ebay come out of estate sales.

If the dark gey resin was bad the original brown, aluminium filled
resin was worse. Besides being brittle it warped and was murder on
small drills.

You guys are right, Al Westefield is a gentlemen.

Ed


Re: Older Westerfield kits

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

John is not quite right. We can't order the hobby shops to do anything. About 16 years ago we offered to replace every kit on every hobby shop shelf for free just to get rid of the old resin. We then sold those returned kits at $5.00 apiece locally with the understanding that there were no returns. We still get an occasional complaint from customers who purchased an old kit at a hobby shop but we explain that it's not our fault. We try to work with these modelers to make them whole at as little cost to them as possible - Al
He told me at the
time that ALL the kits with the earlier resin were
ordered off the shelves and no hobby shop in the US
was authorized to sell them.
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: small roads freight car models

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Elden - We make an EJ&E USRA DS box car. - Al

aside from the discontinued Sunshine EJ&E boxcar, I don't think I have
ever seen a model.



Thanks!


Re: Sunshine Naperville 2004 Gondolas

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

I have often had to solve this problem by using old Red Ball trucks. They
were cast in type metal and weighed several ounces. They were pretty, but
their rolling characteristics are far from current standards.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Culotta [mailto:tculotta@speedwitch.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 9:50 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sunshine Naperville 2004 Gondolas


On Feb 23, 2005, at 8:55 PM, Jerry wrote:

At Naperville this year Sunshine Models had a large offering
of gondola cars kits. While I personal did not buy any of the
new kits at that time, I was interested in the C&NW offering
but had one question about the kit that someone on this list
might be able to answer. How, or did Sunshine, include any
provision to weight this model? Is the floor weighted, or
am I left to my own means to figure out how to weight the
underframe so I can enjoy to great interior detailing the
car has to offer? Perhaps somebody on the list here has this
kit and can tell me.
Jerry:

You're on your own. When I built the ACL car, I added thin sheet metal
between the underframe and floor castings. It's not enough, so I went back
and added squares of lead between the crossties and crossbearers.
It's not pretty, but functional and no one will see it anyway.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912



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Re: small roads freight car models

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Andy, Bruce, and Garth;
Thanks for the feedback. It was very helpful.

Some of these small lines may be obscure, but they did have a presence
out there, and photos confirm that presence in many areas you wouldn't
expect to see them.

If I expect to have a somewhat accurate array of freight cars
eventually, I have to address some of their fleets. I can only hope
that some resin car master builder may choose to pick up on some of
these cars and offer them on the open market.

Thanks again,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Cich [mailto:ajc5150@insightbb.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:35 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] small roads freight car models


Elden,

Your list included one of my favorite subjects: freight cars of the
Chicago
short lines.

EJ&E

The P2K flat car can be used for EJ&E 6375-6574 & 6575-6774
The Sunshine gift and minikit from Naperville 2003 is for EJ&E
60400-60899
The discontinued Sunshine kit you mentioned was for the EJ&E steel
rebuilds.
EJ&E had lots of covered hoppers. I haven't completed my homework, but
the
Kato or Bowser cars look promising.
I haven't had any luck yet matching a gondola.

IHB
The Tichy or F&C War Emergency gondola is good for IHB 6000-6299. There
have been recent articles published in both RMJ and RMC covering this
car.
See the 12/96 issue of RMJ for modeling 10'6" IH boxcars. (10600-10999)
Sunshine 30.15 is a model of an IHB flatcar.

BRC (You didn't mention this one but they had few revenue freight cars)
I have a photo of BRC 865. It looks to be an ex-PRR X31A.
Their other freight cars I have discovered seem to be quite a batch of
odd-balls. I need to find more info but XM 802-850 look promising.
These
were 36'5" IL single sheath cars with steel underframes. They had 6'1"
doors. Cars 852-862 had identical dimensions as the 802-850 cars, but
they
didn't have roofs and were used for coke service.
Cars 2000-2049 were 33'0" IL 2171 cu ft. twin bay steel hopper cars. I
would like to find a photo of one of these cars to see if there is
modeling
potential.


I hope some or all of this helps.


Andy Cich





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Sunshine Naperville 2004 Gondolas

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 23, 2005, at 8:55 PM, Jerry wrote:

At Naperville this year Sunshine Models had a large offering
of gondola cars kits. While I personal did not buy any of the
new kits at that time, I was interested in the C&NW offering
but had one question about the kit that someone on this list
might be able to answer. How, or did Sunshine, include any
provision to weight this model? Is the floor weighted, or
am I left to my own means to figure out how to weight the
underframe so I can enjoy to great interior detailing the
car has to offer? Perhaps somebody on the list here has this
kit and can tell me.
Jerry:

You're on your own. When I built the ACL car, I added thin sheet metal between the underframe and floor castings. It's not enough, so I went back and added squares of lead between the crossties and crossbearers. It's not pretty, but functional and no one will see it anyway.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: small roads freight car models

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Andy and Elden,

Don't forget that the IHB had 10' IH 40' boxcars. IIRC, IMWX (or maybe Des Plaines) offered this car lettered for IHB. It's gone now, but the Red Caboose model is substantially correct. Richard Hendrickson wrote about these in an RMJ/DING article at the time the models were first released.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Andy Cich wrote:

. . . IHB
The Tichy or F&C War Emergency gondola is good for IHB 6000-6299. There
have been recent articles published in both RMJ and RMC covering this car.
See the 12/96 issue of RMJ for modeling 10'6" IH boxcars. (10600-10999)
Sunshine 30.15 is a model of an IHB flatcar . . . .

Andy Cich


Sunshine Naperville 2004 Gondolas

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

At Naperville this year Sunshine Models had a large offering
of gondola cars kits. While I personal did not buy any of the
new kits at that time, I was interested in the C&NW offering
but had one question about the kit that someone on this list
might be able to answer. How, or did Sunshine, include any
provision to weight this model? Is the floor weighted, or
am I left to my own means to figure out how to weight the
underframe so I can enjoy to great interior detailing the
car has to offer? Perhaps somebody on the list here has this
kit and can tell me.

Thanks, Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.


Re: Bulk supplies

George Hollwedel <georgeloop1338@...>
 

I paid $31.45 total with shipping, after finding none locally, from Patchboy, called and requested they be shipped in a USPS Priority Flat Rate Box, any weight that fits, $7.70!
Try the USPS for all your shipping needs! WH-026 was the stock number.

Jeff Lodge <cvfanbratt@yahoo.com> wrote:

Don't want to beat a dead horse but Iafter reading these posts, I checked the web prices and then looked locally. An auto parts store in my town of Brattleboro, VT - hardly a Metropolis - carried the same boxes for about $18 each. I did not have to wait for them to arrive AND I did not have to pay shipping for over 5.625 pounds of lead!

Jeff Lodge

Jon Miller wrote:
I ordered a box of 1/4 ounce adhesive wheel weights from patchboy.com for
$23<
Which exact ones did you order. I see WH-013BK which is around 15.5
pounds for 38.40!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



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Re: Bulk supplies

Jeff Lodge <cvfanbratt@...>
 

Don't want to beat a dead horse but Iafter reading these posts, I checked the web prices and then looked locally. An auto parts store in my town of Brattleboro, VT - hardly a Metropolis - carried the same boxes for about $18 each. I did not have to wait for them to arrive AND I did not have to pay shipping for over 5.625 pounds of lead!

Jeff Lodge

Jon Miller <atsf@inow.com> wrote:
I ordered a box of 1/4 ounce adhesive wheel weights from patchboy.com for
$23<
Which exact ones did you order. I see WH-013BK which is around 15.5
pounds for 38.40!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
document.write('');

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.


Re: small roads freight car models

Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
 

Elden,

Your list included one of my favorite subjects: freight cars of the Chicago
short lines.

EJ&E

The P2K flat car can be used for EJ&E 6375-6574 & 6575-6774
The Sunshine gift and minikit from Naperville 2003 is for EJ&E 60400-60899
The discontinued Sunshine kit you mentioned was for the EJ&E steel rebuilds.
EJ&E had lots of covered hoppers. I haven't completed my homework, but the
Kato or Bowser cars look promising.
I haven't had any luck yet matching a gondola.

IHB
The Tichy or F&C War Emergency gondola is good for IHB 6000-6299. There
have been recent articles published in both RMJ and RMC covering this car.
See the 12/96 issue of RMJ for modeling 10'6" IH boxcars. (10600-10999)
Sunshine 30.15 is a model of an IHB flatcar.

BRC (You didn't mention this one but they had few revenue freight cars)
I have a photo of BRC 865. It looks to be an ex-PRR X31A.
Their other freight cars I have discovered seem to be quite a batch of
odd-balls. I need to find more info but XM 802-850 look promising. These
were 36'5" IL single sheath cars with steel underframes. They had 6'1"
doors. Cars 852-862 had identical dimensions as the 802-850 cars, but they
didn't have roofs and were used for coke service.
Cars 2000-2049 were 33'0" IL 2171 cu ft. twin bay steel hopper cars. I
would like to find a photo of one of these cars to see if there is modeling
potential.


I hope some or all of this helps.


Andy Cich


Re: Older Westerfield kits

golden1014
 

Darren,

About 9-10 years ago I bought an older Westerfield kit
with the brittle dark grey castings at a hobby shop
(Sattler's in Westmont, NJ). I had a VERY difficult
time assembling the kit and sent a letter to Al and
told him so (politely, of course).

Al called the next day and sent me a replacement kit
at no cost with all new castings. He told me at the
time that ALL the kits with the earlier resin were
ordered off the shelves and no hobby shop in the US
was authorized to sell them. So, it would be worth
your while to send him an e-mail and tell him about
your situation. He may not help you out since you
bought the car off Ebay, but it's worth a try. Al's a
terrific fellow and he may give you a break.

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:42:18 -0800
From: Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: older Westerfield kits

I recently purchased a Westerfield BX-Z kit off
E-Bay. Instead of the
usual
grey resin, this is cast in a very dark green/grey.
I'm assuming this
is the
older "brittle" resin I've heard of. Any special
precautions or tips
for
working with this kit? Or would I be better served
to set it aside
until I
have some more experience with the newer kits?
Thanks.

Darren Plants
Darren, the best thing would be to get a set of molded
parts in the
later
resin from Westerfield, who supplies them for earlier
kits at a
relatively
modest price. More experience might help, but the
early resin was very
brittle and hard to work with, and fighting with it is
pointless when
it's
so easy to replace it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


=====
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014


Re: SP Auto Cars...Their Travels

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Reading Tony Thompson's excellent new book on SP frt cars...Vol 3 Automobile
Cars and Flat Cars...I'm curious about the travels of auto cars. There is a
photo of an auto being loaded into an SP auto car at the Melrose [ Oakland,
CA ] plant. Where might this be going? Other points in CA or on the west
coast?
The California assembly plants served the entire West, essentially west of the Rockies.

It is also interesting to note that SP was assigning cars to particular
routes. Thus, some auto or auto parts cars would be assigned to travel from
a specific location...a plant where a particular part was built...to an
assembly plant [ such as the one at Melrose ]. Tony points out that these
assignments varied quite a bit. Union Pacific also assigned cars in a
similar fashion.
I don't know that the routing was truly fixed, but in practical terms I suppose it would act that way. Of course cars were forever moving in and out of particular pools, so the story is indeed complex.

I suppose that we might assume that these auto cars were expected to travel
on the owner's RR for a significant period of time of its trip while in
dedicated service.
As I mentioned in replying to Shawn Beckert, this may not always have been true, though obviously a road like UP with a long routing to the coast would get a nice share.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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