Date   

Re: SP Auto Cars...Their Travels

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:


It is also interesting to note that SP was assigning cars to
particular
routes. Thus, some auto or auto parts cars would be assigned to
travel from
a specific location...a plant where a particular part was built...to
an
assembly plant [ such as the one at Melrose ]. Tony points out that
these
assignments varied quite a bit. Union Pacific also assigned cars in a
similar fashion.
The way I understand it (and Tony will correct if I have it wrong),
automobile
and auto-parts cars were assigned to pools, with each railroad
contributing a
number of cars based on the percent of traffic they garnered from a
particular
plant. The more business you got from a facility, the more cars you
had to put
in the kitty. Thus you could see SP, UP, PRR, etc. all assigning cars
to certain
plants.

The problem for modelers is to discover which cars were in what pools
in a given
year - a very hard thing to find out (I've been trying).
Whatever power the auto companies had over pools of cars may have been somewhat muted by the demands of WW II and the boxcar shortage immediately after WW II.

Of the 267 cars cited as carrying eastbound lumber per my Fall 1947 Fraley Wheel Report, the twenty-nine automobile cars comprising the XA's (6), XAB (1), XAR's (6) and XMR's (16) somewhat refute that control of at least the direct of empties to the manufacturers in the "Rust Belt." Granted only three of the 29 were SP XMR's (plus one SSW XAR), but there were only sixteen SP General Service Flats carrying lumber eastbound reported by Fraley.

If all the boxcars which Fraley reported during the Fall of 1947 were broken into the two boxcar groups which was adopted in 1954, General Service Boxcars and Special Service Boxcars, the splits between eastbound loads and empties & westbound loads and empties, the results would be (Note - Special Service equates to Automobile Cars) :

Eastbound Westbound
Type Boxcar Loads MT's % Ld. Loads MT's % Ld.
Special Service 36 2 94.7% 72 - 100.0%
General Service 273 12 95.7% 354 - 100.0%
Unknown 1 - - 4 23 14.8%
Total 310 14 95.7% 430 23 92.9%

If the Automobile Cars flowed out from plants in the Mid West, we would expect to see a significant difference in the east vs. westbound percent of cars loaded. Instead, the Special Service eastbound percentage was only slightly less than the westbound percentage.

Reviewing the Fall 1946 SOU wheel report does not provide any clues - there were only eight special service boxcars reported by Conductor ESB on the Washington Division of a total of 1,182 total boxcars.

In a 1956 UP Wheel Report between Grand Island NE and Council Bluffs IA, there were 660 boxcars reported of which 85 were Special Service. The breakdown of directional loads and empties follow:

Eastbound Westbound
Type Boxcar Loads MT's % Ld. Loads MT's % Ld.
Special Service 20 34 37.0% 21 - 100.0%
General Service 350 21 94.3% 204 - 100.0%
Combined 370 55 87.1% 225 - 100.0%

In 1956, there were more eastbound Special Service Boxcar empties than eastbound loads. This is the way it should be given the assumptions about automobile freight car pools (although the eastbound percent loaded percent may be a bit higher than "purists" would like to admit). While there was a boxcar shortage in 1956, it was pale in comparison to the one in 1947. Auto companies, therefore, had more leverage to flex their muscle with the railroads in 1956 than they could in 1947, or that would be my interpretation of the numbers.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert

PS - Ted Culotta - since you model Hartford CT in 1947, you should probably pay more attention to those numbers than the 1956 ones.


Re: NWP Stock cars was T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

It looks like the cars are in the NWP 5670-5729 series, class S-40-5 built by Ralston in 1916. We do indeed have kits for all the NWP versions, both original and modernized - Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Groff
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NWP Stock cars was T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars


Bob,

NWP had Harriman-design S-40-4, and S-40-5 or S-40-6 (not sure which),
according to Westerfield's catalog. I didn't see any NWP numbers or
photos listed. Try http://www.westerfield.biz/ . Too bad the number on
the car in the photo you posted is so fuzzy.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


SP&S AFC Gondolas

fuchst900
 

I am building a 1952 built Gondola that has had Side boards added to
increase the capacity. The plans are in Mainline Modeler from a few
years ago. The Decal sheet that comes with an extention kit the SPSHS
sells has several built dates. Where could I get info on what cars
were converted. (the received new numbers in the 235xx range from
23,XXX range. Also there is a marking "V mm yy" on the car. The
detail sheet has several of these too. Does anybody know what these
mean. Steve Fuchs


Re: NWP Stock cars was T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars

Lee Gautreaux
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob Webber <zephyr1@a...> wrote:
Were the NWP stock cars behind the Cole Bros flat here:
http://rswebber.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90344

an SP design or were they pre-SP?


Re: NWP Stock cars was T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars

Lee Gautreaux
 

Bob,

The cars in the photo behind the circus flat appear to be from SP
class S-40-5, see below:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/stock/s040-05.htm

The NWP also had stock cars of class S-40-4, see below:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/stock/s040-04.htm

This is only mention of NWP stock cars in Tony's book. There is a
photo of an NWP S-40-4 on page 267. It does not appear that they
were ever re-numbered as SP cars.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob Webber <zephyr1@a...> wrote:
Were the NWP stock cars behind the Cole Bros flat here:
http://rswebber.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90344

an SP design or were they pre-SP?


Re: Help with PRR Flat Cars?

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Hi all;
I was wondering if any of you had any information, photo sources, or
other data on the following classes of PRR flat cars:

FMP
F21
F30F
F32
F41D
F41E (an F41 re-built w/cushioned underframe for auto frame service)
F41F
F46
F48 (89' bulkhead flat)
FD3
FW2

Thanks for any leads you can provide.

Elden Gatwood


Re: GN truss rod box underframe help

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:29 AM, John Fitts wrote:


While we're on the topic of F&C, is anyone familiar with their 1070 express reefer (discontinued, but there are still kits floating around). Is it anything like in a class with the Sunshine (also discontinued) or the Sylvan (Canadian prototype) models?
If these are the NYC prototypes, the answer would be no. This is way before Steve improved either his casting or patterns.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: GN truss rod box underframe help

John Fitts <jefitts2003@...>
 

While we're on the topic of F&C, is anyone familiar with their 1070 express reefer (discontinued, but there are still kits floating around). Is it anything like in a class with the Sunshine (also discontinued) or the Sylvan (Canadian prototype) models?

Ted Culotta <tculotta@speedwitch.com> wrote:
On Feb 23, 2005, at 6:52 AM, Dean Payne wrote:



F&C finally got around to sending me replacement needle
beam/queenposts castings for my hopper bottom GN box. (This has been
over six months, two letters, three emails... but I got my parts!)
Reviewing the instructions, I may have made a mistake. The
instructions say "Cement the 'C' channels directly to the two center
beams with the 'C's facing out." I remember being puzzled...
Do the C channels go NEXT to or ON TOP of the center beams? The
illustrations and photos supplied with the kit do not show which is
meant, I suppose it can be taken either way. I may need to fix my
mistake! The underframe detail is considerable, and merits getting
it right before proceeding.
Dean:

On top of.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


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Re: Available good WE gon decals?

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Guys;
Unfortunately, the F&C decals, at least for the WE gon, are not very
good, either. I was so perturbed with the mistakes I dumped them and
re-lettered with a Middle Division set for my PRR car. I would,
however, love to know where I could get some good N&W or NYC decals for
the steel rebuilds.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: kuban [mailto:kuban@321online.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 5:34 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Durability and accuracy of Tichy USRA hopper decals


Mark,

I have recently built two Tichy War Emergency gons. I found the decals
in
both kits to be very brittle and difficult to handle. After losing a few

decals, I solved the problem by overspraying the remaining decal sheet
with
Floquil KrystalCote.After allowing this to dry, the decals handled quite

satisfactorily - much like Champ or Microscale out of the envelope.
(Luckily, I had two sets to work with).

I cannot comment on the accuracy of the D&H hopper set, but I did find
inaccuracies in the gondola decals and had to resort to my decal bone
pile
to improve upon the accuracy of the car lettering. Also, the print
quality
of the decals was less-than-desired. I would look for an alternate
source of
decals as I question that the kit supplied decals are worth the effort.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown, WV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@hotmail.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Durability and accuracy of Tichy USRA hopper decals




Hello everyone,

I'm considering using Tichy #9029 decals for USRA and panel side
hoppers for an upcoming D&H hopper project. I've heard that these
decals don't take well to setting solutions. Does anyone who has
experience with these decals care to comment? Also, how accurate are
these decals?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden







Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NWP Stock cars was T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bob,

NWP had Harriman-design S-40-4, and S-40-5 or S-40-6 (not sure which), according to Westerfield's catalog. I didn't see any NWP numbers or photos listed. Try http://www.westerfield.biz/ . Too bad the number on the car in the photo you posted is so fuzzy.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Bob Webber wrote:

Were the NWP stock cars behind the Cole Bros flat here:
http://rswebber.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90344

an SP design or were they pre-SP?


NWP Stock cars was T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars

Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
 

Were the NWP stock cars behind the Cole Bros flat here:
http://rswebber.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90344

an SP design or were they pre-SP?


Re: Walthers Express Reefer = PFE?

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

If that's the market, then BLI can follow up with a sound version. Not
only will F2 cause the milkman to throw the 200 lbs cans out the door, F3
will create the sound of the cans banging and F4 is the sound of distressed
cows being hit by flying cans!

Got Milk? ;-)

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff [mailto:ggg9y@virginia.edu]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:46 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Walthers Express Reefer = PFE?


Jon,

Don't forget that operating doors increase the PLAY VALUE of trains.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Jon Miller wrote:

A note on the BLI General American reefers . . . I noticed
something not on the web site about this car, "operating doors" . . . .

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user NMRA Life member #2623 Member
SFRH&MS



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Re: SP Auto Cars...Their Travels

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 23, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:


Mike Brock wrote:

It is also interesting to note that SP was assigning cars to particular
routes. Thus, some auto or auto parts cars would be assigned to travel from
a specific location...a plant where a particular part was built...to an
assembly plant [ such as the one at Melrose ]. Tony points out that these
assignments varied quite a bit. Union Pacific also assigned cars in a
similar fashion.
The way I understand it (and Tony will correct if I have it wrong), automobile
and auto-parts cars were assigned to pools, with each railroad contributing a
number of cars based on the percent of traffic they garnered from a particular
plant. The more business you got from a facility, the more cars you had to put
in the kitty. Thus you could see SP, UP, PRR, etc. all assigning cars to certain
plants.

The problem for modelers is to discover which cars were in what pools in a given
year - a very hard thing to find out (I've been trying).
While not SP-specific, recently I was watching a video of NH material and there was a train pulled by a 2-10-2 heading back to Maybrook. The consist of the train included a block of many of the NYC steel auto car rebuilds of the 1916 double sheathed auto cars. There were more of them in the block than I could count. I presume they had carried autos to a point on the NH and were headed west for reloading. All had the white bar on the doors indicating the presence of auto loaders.

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: GN truss rod box underframe help

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 23, 2005, at 6:52 AM, Dean Payne wrote:



F&C finally got around to sending me replacement needle
beam/queenposts castings for my hopper bottom GN box. (This has been
over six months, two letters, three emails... but I got my parts!)
Reviewing the instructions, I may have made a mistake. The
instructions say "Cement the 'C' channels directly to the two center
beams with the 'C's facing out." I remember being puzzled...
Do the C channels go NEXT to or ON TOP of the center beams? The
illustrations and photos supplied with the kit do not show which is
meant, I suppose it can be taken either way. I may need to fix my
mistake! The underframe detail is considerable, and merits getting
it right before proceeding.
Dean:

On top of.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Pacific Electric  B-50-13/14 SS cars with outside brake rigging

eabracher@...
 

Tony Thompsons new SP freight car book has a good shot of a PE box car
showing this outside brake rod.

eric


Re: Walthers Express Reefer = PFE?

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Jon,

Don't forget that operating doors increase the PLAY VALUE of trains.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Jon Miller wrote:

A note on the BLI General American reefers . . . I noticed something not on the web
site about this car, "operating doors" . . . .

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


RP CYC Vol. 11 Status

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC,
Please pardon the bandwidth for this message. I just wanted to update the group with information that RP CYC Vol. 11 was mailed to individuals taking advantage of the pre-publication offer on 2/22/05. The books were actually taken to the post office and were supposed to be mailed on 2/17/05, but a snafu within the post office allowed the books to sit for 5 days inside the post office before being processed and shipped. To all who ordered the book or will purchase the book from a dealer, Pat Wider and I thank you and we hope you enjoy it.

It has come to our attention that an error was made regarding text on page 107 that states, "The Century Foundry parts and D&G's fabulous trucks are the best of their kind but both appear to be out of business." Jim Gerstley has notified me that D&G Models is very much still in business. We sincerely apologize for this error. It is intended that this message will set the record straight for the STMFC discussion group and I have made a corresponding post to the Passenger Car List.

Pat and I are currently working on Volume 12 and I can say in advance that virtually the entire book will be on subject matter relating directly to freight cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Pacific Electric B-50-13/14 SS cars with outside brake rigging

oliver
 

Brilliant! That was just what I needed...a pretty simple construction
actually isn't it?
Thanks Tom

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@w...> wrote:

I am looking for some underbody or close up views of the outside
brake
rigging used on PE SS boxcars to allow negotiation of tight curves.
I'm interested in how to model the brake staff connections etc...
thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada
Try these:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/PE_1.jpg
http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/PE_2.jpg
http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/PE_3.jpg

I took those at Perris CA in 1988. The bluish regions in PE_2 and
PE_3 are from dodging those areas to make the brake chain and
linkage more visible.

I'll leave those photos up for a day or two.

Tom Madden


T&NO (ex SA&AP) stock cars

Lee Gautreaux
 

Tony T. or others,

I have just taken the time to go through the SP Freight Cars Vol I
in detail in the stock car chapters to update the appropriate class
pages on my web site (see below:)

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/stock/index.htm

and have a question or two:

-I show T&NO ex-SAAP 14810-14968 in my 12/1930 ORER. What were
their original SAAP numbers?

-I show T&NO 6075-6099 as 36'-6", 2596 ft3. I assume these were
renumbered to make room for T&NO 61xxx series box cars. Do you know
the original class(es?)

-I show T&NO S-40-13's listed with SP numbers 78000-78004,
presumably for renumbering in the early 1960's. Do you know if any
of these cars were actually renumbered as such or could these have
been proposed numbers that were never used?

I will be ordering Vol. III tomorrow. I'm very excited about this
new book.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Re: Walthers Express Reefer = PFE?

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@i...> wrote:

Studying the comments on the (BLI express) reefer I noticed something that not on the
web site about this car, "operating doors".
Wow, maybe the little guy throws out milk cans, too!

Walt

153721 - 153740 of 192655