Date   

Re: 10'-0" PS-1's

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Walt,

It's been ages since I saw a Kurtz-Kraft car. I believe they are/were available through Model Railroading Warehouse (aka Red Ball).

As for other 10' IH PS-1s, I believe the old Roco/AHM car was this height, and it came with a 7' door. Early incarnations of these cars came with separate ladders, which makes upgrading easy. There was also a plug door version, which might save the problem of filling in holes from oversized door tracks. Both are fairly common at swap meets. Walthers, Model Power and Con-Cor offered knock-offs of the Roco tooling, and had the same height. Of course, any of these cars are crude by today's standards, but they do offer possibilities for kitbashing.

Who had these things? The New Haven for sure, and IIRC the Mississippi Central (maybe riveted?). ACY and D&RGW apparently picked some up through leases. There must have been others.

Now for some real fun, how about a riveted PS-1? Easy to do with Intermountain PS-1 parts on their 10' 6" AAR body or one of the old Front Range bodies. CNW had hundreds, plus ASARCO, CH-P, and I think at least one other road. Also the IC assembled their own with both 6' and 8' doors from Pullman-supplied kits. The ultimate flat kit, actually. I've done both a CNW and an IC, and they are among my favorite cars.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

mcindoefalls wrote:

I seem to have less gray matter RAM allocated to freight car info
these days, but wasn't the Kurtz-Kraft PS-1 kit a 10'-0" height car?
If not, it would be easy to cut down, with its flat molded
construction. The major parts were not bad, and using current SOTA
ladders, grabs, brake gear and other accessories, building one of
these kits might be an enjoyable project. I dimly recall that another
manufacturer re-released the KK kits maybe 20 years ago, but
apparently that file is corrupted.

Walt Lankenau


Re: 10'-0" PS-1's

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Walt Lankenau asked:
"...wasn't the Kurtz-Kraft PS-1 kit a 10'-0" height car?"

No. The Kurtz-Kraft PS-1 is a 10 ft 6 in IH car.


"If not, it would be easy to cut down, with its flat molded
construction. The major parts were not bad, and using current SOTA
ladders, grabs, brake gear and other accessories, building one of
these kits might be an enjoyable project. I dimly recall that another
manufacturer re-released the KK kits maybe 20 years ago."

Cannonball Car Shops obtained the Kurtz-Kraft dies in the 1980s and
marketed the cars, which are still common on the secondary market at
reasonable prices, and may still be available from Model Railroad
Warehouse, if you can find them on their website:
http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/

We used these kits for our PS-1 fleet on the NEB&W, as they were the
best available during the early 1980s. A writeup on these models is
in Paint Shop in the January 1984 MR.

I've still got four or five of these cars, and with many Kadee PS-1
components now available separately, will be using these to upgrade
these vintage models.


Ben Hom


Re: 10'-0" PS-1's

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Mar 2, 2005, at 10:41 AM, mcindoefalls wrote:

I seem to have less gray matter RAM allocated to freight car info
these days, but wasn't the Kurtz-Kraft PS-1 kit a 10'-0" height car?
If not, it would be easy to cut down, with its flat molded
construction. The major parts were not bad, and using current SOTA
ladders, grabs, brake gear and other accessories, building one of
these kits might be an enjoyable project. I dimly recall that another
manufacturer re-released the KK kits maybe 20 years ago, but
apparently that file is corrupted.
It might be easier to cut up two Intermountain cars, given that the detail on them is superior to the Kurtz Kraft cars. cannonball car Shops was the company that re-released them.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


10'-0" PS-1's

mcindoefalls
 

I seem to have less gray matter RAM allocated to freight car info
these days, but wasn't the Kurtz-Kraft PS-1 kit a 10'-0" height car?
If not, it would be easy to cut down, with its flat molded
construction. The major parts were not bad, and using current SOTA
ladders, grabs, brake gear and other accessories, building one of
these kits might be an enjoyable project. I dimly recall that another
manufacturer re-released the KK kits maybe 20 years ago, but
apparently that file is corrupted.

Walt Lankenau


Re: New Haven Boxcar Paint & Lettering

Paul Gehrett
 

--- "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...> wrote:


I tried calling Dan Hall a week or two ago at the
number
listed on his price sheet, and got a recorded
message
Try this:

(479) 646-9592

Paul Gehrett


Re: New Haven Boxcar Paint & Lettering

Shawn Beckert
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

For those interested, Southwest Scale Production made a
7-panel Superior door for a 7' door opening that works
just great to model the 10'6" IH cars.
I tried calling Dan Hall a week or two ago at the number
listed on his price sheet, and got a recorded message saying
the number was no longer in service. I hope Dan hasn't gone
out of business, since he was the only source for certain
versions of Superior doors. Does anyone have current info on
Dan and Southwest Scale Productions?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


MILW marks

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Can anyone tell me when the Milwaukee changed its reporting marks from
CMStP&P to MILW?

regards,

Andy Miller


B&W photo processing

ed_mines
 

There may still be labs that specialize in processing old B&W
negatives.

In the early '80s I acquired a negative collection from Paul Dunn
and used to send out several sizes of larger negatives for printing.
My understanding was that someone would put the negative in a frame,
focus it my hand and then print it on a web (continuous roll) of
photo paper which would be processed automaticly. Thus the prints
would always have the same height but the width would be different,
depending on the size of the negative (actually the ratio of width
to height for that particular negative).

Bob from Bob's Photos told me he has one of these semiautomatic
machines for making 8X10s which makes multiple prints. These
machines must have been common at one time when school photos were
B&W.

John LaRue told be he could pretty accurately determine exposure
time from experience. I've occasionally gotten duplicate prints from
other processors (including the commercial lab) when the processor
tried 2 exposure times (or put the negative in backwards).

Anyway, I think these machines would be much better suited for
making B&W freight car photos compared the the local drug store.
It's not likely that here are many left but a few old time B&W
processors may still do business through the mail.

As to the Dunn freight car negatives, I realized that I couldn't do
a good job providing prints so John LaRue has some of the negatives
and Richard Berg has the rest.

Ed


Re: coke containers, part deux

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Brian;
The photos I've seen were in Aug/Sep 2001 Mainline Modeler, and are
proprietary (see Chuck's message, too). You ought to have those two
issues, anyway. Jim Kinkaid did a great job on that (unfortunately too
short) series, with great plans and pics.

I did a bunch of looking last night, and was not able top find a car
that exactly matches the Koppers cars. They are very similar to the PRR
G22, but longer in each panel, and in overall and interior length. They
also have an end that looks a lot like the Lehigh Valley gons. Hmmmm.
I will let you know if I figure something out.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson [mailto:brian@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] coke containers, part deux


Can you post a picture of a Koppers car?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] coke containers, part deux



Hi all;

Aren't these cool cars? Does anyone know where Koppers got their
cars?
They were apparently 48'6" IL; 51'3" OL, straight sided, fishbelly
underframed, and look like they had drop ends. Does anyone think this
looks like the LV gons that carried air-activated cement containers?
The Koppers containers also look like Youngstowns, don't they?



And, you all wouldn't have seen a decal set for the Koppers cars,
would
you?



Elden



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links









Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Rail Data Services photo archives contact?

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks for the feedback, Chuck.

"Elwood"

-----Original Message-----
From: raildata@... [mailto:raildata@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rail Data Services photo archives contact?


Answering Elwood's question....

After many years of drawing plans for model magazines (with the accuracy

improved as standards we all became more detail concious and standards
were
raised!..For better or worse, I think in the next few years prorotpype
drawigns will
be gone from amdle rr mags) I was besiged with inquiry for copies of
photos
and slides from my collection.

To finally handle these requests on some sort of realistic basis, I got
the
trade name of Rail Data Services and got a P.O. box. I was a major pain
in the
butt and hardly a money making venture, but I hated to deprive any one
of data
I had accumulated. Could always deal with someone who wanted info on
Erie
XXXX series cars but found it impossible to spend the time (on the
phone) with a
guy who wanted "everything I had on Erie"...plus BS about it for an
hour.

On moving to Colorado and going through "the big downsize" I sold my b&w

collection of about 5000 negs. The buyer prefers to remain unknown but
some time
in the future he amy make prints available, I no longer have a darkroom
(nor
the time to scan all that stuff) and the cost of making commercial
prints is
now up to about $10 for and 8X10. ( And have you ever taken a 120 b&w
neg to
Walgreen? Not to mention those clerks trying to figure which end of the
machine
you 50 year old neg shound go in!) The amount of time spent in the
darkroom was
also a real downer...cutting into modeling and drawing time. I still
have my
collection of car slides but have no listing and but really only handle
minimal requests.

I have no sage advice on the future of obtaining car photos,a side from
the
Herculean requests of people like "Fallen Flags". Selling prints and
then
finding them scanned and posted on the Internet is a real downer in
terms of the
film, gas, and equipment invested....not to mention the time. Unless
youa re a
real computer enthusiast and ahve given up hands on modeling scanning a
large
collection is not possible. But that is here to stay, for what ever it
means.

So Rail Data Services is gone.....

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: New Haven Boxcar Paint & Lettering

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Mar 2, 2005, at 5:58 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:

No, they are PS-1s, just 6" inches shorter. Ben mentioned it, but it
probably bears repeating that the NH cars had 7-foot door openings,
meaning Kadee is not an option, but Intermountain is. Black doors as
delivered, too.
Whoops! My apologies to Ben. I did not know that Kadee had released a PS-1 with a 7' door opening. Apologies to Intermountain, but Kadee is definitely the way to go. Ignore my previous post and use the Kadee car!

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: New Haven Boxcar Paint & Lettering

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Mar 2, 2005, at 5:45 AM, Andy Miller wrote:


Ben,
Are these anything like the "PS-0" cars offered by Funero & Camerlengo?
See:
http://www.fandckits.com/
Item#6352
Andy:

No, they are PS-1s, just 6" inches shorter. Ben mentioned it, but it probably bears repeating that the NH cars had 7-foot door openings, meaning Kadee is not an option, but Intermountain is. Black doors as delivered, too.

By the way, while we're on this topic, does anyone know what number series was used on the CNW when they purchased secondhand NH PS-1s and when this occurred?

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: New Haven Boxcar Paint & Lettering

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Ben,
Are these anything like the "PS-0" cars offered by Funero & Camerlengo?
See:
http://www.fandckits.com/
Item#6352

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom [mailto:b.hom@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] New Haven Boxcar Paint & Lettering


Shawn Beckert asked:
"Note that the number series for the oxide-brown and "New Haven Red" cars is
the same, 33500-35999. A couple of questions:

1) The New Haven's PS-1's are from the 1947-1948 era. AFAIK
Kadee's PS-1 car models the later version produced in the
1950's. Would the Intermountain PS-1 have the correct carbody
to model the New Haven cars?"

Tim Gilbert responded:
"The Intermountain PS-1 has "zits" in the apex of ends of the cars. Those
"zits" I believe were first stamped on the PS-1's in 1950-1951. PS-1's built
prior to that date had no "zits.""

and Walt Lankenau added:
"Possibly neither. The New Haven 40-foot PS-1's were 10-0 IH, IIRC, as were
the Lackawanna's."

Not all NH PS-1s were 10 ft IH:
NH 33500-33999, 500 cars, 1947, 7 ft 7 panel Superior door, IH 10 ft 6 in NH
34000-34999, 1000 cars, 1947, 7 ft 7 panel Superior door, IH 10 ft 6 in NH
35000-35999, 1000 cars, 1948, 7 ft 7 panel Superior door, IH 10 ft
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nh/nh35237ajs.jpg

The "zits" that Tim refers to are six small rectangles at the peak of the
end, which the NH cars do indeed lack. You can use the Kadee or
Intermountain car for the 10 ft 6 in cars if you remove these rectangles
along with the "bowtie" stampings in the roof panels closest to the ends.
FWIW, the 10 ft IH cars are also missing the narrow top rib. The Morning
Sun NH color guide has 4 pages of 40 ft PS-1 photos in both script and
McGinnis schemes.


Ben Hom







------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give
the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: coke containers

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Those interested in container cars:

This would be a good time to share a little problem I ran into with coke
containers. I scratch built enough of them to fill a MONON gondola.
The MONON built theirs in their own shops. I had the plans so mine were
pretty accurate.

Then I scratch built a gon in which to carry them. When everything was
done the containers would not fit into the gon!

The "watch out" here is the thickness of the sides and ends of our model
gons. While trying to get the exterior to look right we often forget
about the interior -- especially when we are going to fill it up anyway.
The model sides are usually thicker than the prototype and therefore
won't necessarily accept accurately modeled containers.

Oh by the way, this is the project in which I made resin copies of
InterMountain exterior posts for use on the gon, then made masters and
cast my own sides. Some folks on the list thought InterMountain would
not stand for this. An article was published, they knew about it and
they were supportive of the effort. My thanks to InterMountain.

As far as I know the MONON 40 ft. steel gondola is one that Sunshine is
not doing.

MONT SWITZER

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden [mailto:Elden.Gatwood@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:22 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] coke containers, part deux


Hi all;

Aren't these cool cars? Does anyone know where Koppers got their cars?
They were apparently 48'6" IL; 51'3" OL, straight sided, fishbelly
underframed, and look like they had drop ends. Does anyone think this
looks like the LV gons that carried air-activated cement containers?
The Koppers containers also look like Youngstowns, don't they?



And, you all wouldn't have seen a decal set for the Koppers cars, would
you?



Elden









Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Paint Matches

Ed Hawkins
 

On Tuesday, March 1, 2005, at 03:56 PM, Jerry Dziedzic wrote:

Can anyone refer me to a cross-reference table that correlates
different manufacturers' colors against one another?  For example,
Modelflex 16-13 Dark Oxide = 2 parts Floquil x + 1 part Floquil y?

I understand that level of gloss, lighting and other variables will
affect the perception of color.  Nevertheless, a standardized
starting point would be helpful.
Jerry,
Let me take a stab at answering your question. I know of no single
source for cross-referencing these colors and doing so would probably
become an effort in futility. The reason for this is that not all
paints are consistently the same from bottle to bottle, batch to batch,
year to year. This is particularly true of Floquil, who's "Box Car Red"
has changed appreciably over the years. Floquil has not maintained
consistent color standards over time (part of the reason could be due
to environmental regulations and changes in formulation to comply with
these requirements). Thus, to use 2 parts of Floquil XX and 1 part of
Floquil YY to match some other paint becomes a moving target depending
on which bottles of paint is being used for matching. Compounding the
problem is the apparent differences in hue caused by overcoats of flat,
semi-gloss, etc.

Certainly, anyone can match a color within a certain amount of reason
with trial and error mixing using the bottles of paint they have.
However, another person using the same formula may obtain a different
result due to the variability in the paint itself. About 15 (or so)
years ago I developed a cross-reference table with a set of formulas
that worked for me based on the paint bottles I had. Various formulas
for Floquil, Accupaint, and Scalecoat were developed to match actual
AC&F paint samples from their bills of materials (late 1930s-1952
period). However, in 1989 I had several bottles of Floquil "Box Car
Red" that weren't the same hue with some being much more brown than
others. These were bought at different stores but all within a year or
two. Some of this formulation information on "box car red" was
published in Railmodel Journal when the magazine was just getting
started. Some of the same information was used in RP CYC Vol. 3. The
original plan for using these color matches was to include a new line
of ready-mix freight car paints being developed by Accuflex at the time
(I still have pre-production bottles from 1998 of some of these
colors), however, the paint never materialized into production. Pat
Wider and I went ahead and published the list of formulas anyway, even
though the table wasn't what we had hoped it would be. To date my
offers to help Badger Modelflex develop a line of five or six ready-mix
accurate freight car red shades (plus some gray paints for covered
hoppers) based on actual paint samples from the primary STMFC period
have fallen on deaf ears. Maybe some day.......
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Monroeville RPM

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

We will be there. As usual, if you want us to bring any specific kits let us know by next Tuesday. - Al Westerfield


URR and MTR info: was small roads freight car models

Angela Sutton
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
All;

I know of some small roads represented in model form by Westerfield
and
Sunshine, but I was wondering if you have ever seen any models of
(accurate) freight cars, or good photo/data resources for the
following:

Elden,
For a good source of Montour photos, see "The Montour Railroad"
by Gene P. Schaeffer. Schaeffer worked for the Montour in the '70's
and, as the railroad was folding up, got some older photos and
records in addition to his own shots. Although a small-press book,
it pops up now and again in Historic Rail and other rail book
catalogs. As an earlier responder noted, the vast majority of the
interchange fleet was USRA-type twin hoppers in black and PRR FCC.
There were, however, a number of other types in captive service
between company mines and the Champion coal processing plant,
including about 100 ex-C&O offset side 50 ton twins in the (C&O)
40000 series and an aluminum (!) hopper. These could show up if you
are modeling some portion of Montour trackage proper.
For URR, there are a couple of shots of 3000 series gons at the
Fallen Flags site - I also have a broadside of one of these at
Mifflin. They appear to be similar in many ways to Greenville gons
built for the Erie and P&LE ( http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-
g71.gif ), except with 11 evenly spaced ribs on the "fishbelly"
instead of 10.
Hope this info is of some use,

Angela


WP/PFE Hutchins roof R-30-13

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

Does anyone have a photo of a WP/PFE R-30-13 with a Hutchins roof after refurbishing? Also, does anybody know anything about this type of Hutchins roof as it seems to be like no other I have seen?

Thank you.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: small roads freight car models

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:
"I know of some small roads represented in model form by Westerfield and
Sunshine, but I was wondering if you have ever seen any models of
(accurate) freight cars, or good photo/data resources for the following:

BlawKnox Corp."
John Nehrich writes in "NEB&W Guide IV, From Baby Ruth to Byerlyte" that
Blaw-Knox ordered 6 70-ton gons from Standard Steel in 1922, BKX 1001-1006,
listed in the ORER through at least 1968. No pictures, unfortunately.


"Donora Southern"
October 1913 Standard Steel Car Co. builder's photo of Donora Southern 603,
an H21-style quad, on p 35 of Teichmoeller. Car has the old-style hoppers
but differs from Class H21 in at least the following details: "club" style
hand brake and 70-ton archbar trucks. Side stakes appear to be similar to
H21. Lettering very similar to PRR NK3 scheme. Bowser offers this paint
scheme on their H21 kit:
http://www.bowser-trains.com/img/54104.jpg


Ben Hom


Re: coke containers

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Off the top of my Head,
NKP in at least two different gondola classes and
WM in a funky homebuilt gondola.
Pictures in Train Shed Cyclopedia 71.

Oh, and Elden, this issue also contains some open and covered B&LE hoppers.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] coke containers



Folks;

Aside from the PRR and L&N, who operated coke container gondolas using
the Youngstown container (Walthers model)? How accurate is the
lettering on various roads represented by the Walthers model?



Thanks!



Elden Gatwood









Yahoo! Groups Links






154381 - 154400 of 193482