Date   

Re: LNE 1923 ARA Box

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rob Daniels asked:
"I'm looking for any or all of the following information regarding the
appliances used on LNE 1923 ARA boxcars following AB upgrades:

1) What type of brake housing (I believe it was power brakes, but not sure
what kind)"

Will Whittaker photographed LNE 8413 at San Francisco in 1963. This photo
ran in the Amerine/Freeman X29 article in the October 1978 Prototype
Modeler. Brake wheel and housing are Ajax.


"2) What type of cut lever (carmer, upper or lower bar)"

It's hard to tell in the Whitaker photo - it appears to be top operated.
The cars were built with Carmer cut levers. If I had to guess, I would say
that many retained them to retirement, with some replaced as Carmer parts
became scarce (as did the PRR X29).


"3) Was the three-lever system like the one on the PRR X29 retained, or was
it converted to the more conventional two-lever AB arrangement?"

The LNE cars had KC brakes vice the KD brakes of the PRR cars, so the lever
arrangement is different. I'd go with the two lever arrangement. A Paul
Dunn photo of LNE 8484 in the November 2001 Railmodel Journal has the AB
brake components nicely silhouetted.


"4) What type of trucks was used?"

The cars were built new with ARA Type Y trucks. (The Bowser 2D-F8 is the
closest match in HO and N.) These were replaced by the 1950s with AAR cast
sideframe trucks with simplex bolsters. (Life-Like Canada LL212560 in HO.)


Ben Hom


Coal Traffic to South -West Wisconsin

Richard White
 

Dear Members,
This is a request for information. I live in Botswana so local library
sources aren't much help.
I am building a layout set in south-west Wisconsin in the late 1940's.
Inspiration is Miwaukee Road's Mineral Point branch, Illinois Central's
lines in the area and C&NW lines across the Mississipi in Minnesota that
later became the DM&E.
In the steam era, where did this region get its coal supplies from?
More importantly from the layout building perspective, which railroads' cars
were used to carry it?
I have got Daniel Lanz's book "Railroads of Southern and Southwestern
Wisconsin" but it has no photographs of coal cars that have legible road
names.
Thank you for your help,
Richard White




--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release Date: 08/03/05


Re: "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain

Paul & Theri Koehler <buygone@...>
 

Shawn:



When an industry was within the "Reciprocal Switching Limits" any carries
serving that "Switching Limits" was considered to be serving that industry.
In your example the SP physically served the industry, but WP could solicit
the long haul on any inbound or outbound traffic and all SP got for the
handling was a switching charge. If on the other hand the industry was not
within the "Reciprocal Switching Limits" then the SP would get a division of
the line haul revenue.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:Shawn.Beckert@...]
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain



List,

Is there a document or publication that explains the details
of "reciprocal switching"? This Western Pacific circular that
I'm wading through seems to give witness to a lot of this.

An example: The Judson-Pacific Murphy Company (a steel plant)
had two tracks in Emeryville with a combined capacity of 80
cars. That's a heckuva lot of gondolas and boxcars moving in
and out. This whole industry is listed on the tracks of the
Southern Pacific, yet the circular shows this as being served
by the Western Pacific.

How did this work? If the trackage was owned by the Espee, I
can't imagine them standing by while WP took the business of
a very large shipper away from them. Money must have changed
hands for the owner of the trackage (SP) to allow a competitor
(WP) to service one of their on-line industries.

Can someone clarify how this sort of transaction was done?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert




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Suggestions for decaling a spare IM USRA Composite gon?

oliver
 

I've found one of these in undecorated in my pile of stuff. Does
anyone have a suggestion for a good set of prototypical decals I could
use for this orphan? I'd like to decal (or dry transfer)it for a
smaller road if possible, but any road would do if the decals are correct.
Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada


Re: Intermountain NP Reefers

Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

WHOOPS! My error! I did not make clear that the new R-40-25 reefers will be
1949 PFE - not NP. If there is enough interest in another run of NP reefers,
DROP ME AN E-MAIL IMMEDIATELY at NPreefers@... ! We have
to run at least 400 cars, so if I get e-mails committing to at least 200, we
would consider running the cars again quickly. If I get e-mails committing
to at least 300, I am pretty sure they will be run immediately! We want to
provide cool, accurate, and well researched cars to those of us who enjoy
great models. But, we can't get stuck with 390 NP reefers . . . sorry.

If there are other cars that this group wants to see in production, drop the
ARM an e-mail at: newcars@...

This was not meant to be a blatant commercial plug for the Amarillo Railroad
Museum, Inc. Hope the moderator doesn't mind too much the responses!

Tom Jones III
stationmaster@...

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Intermountain NP Reefers



Tom, Are the NP reefers going to be all RTR, or can we get kits?
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA



Re: Red CABOOSE "NYC 40 ft Sheathed Boxcar (X-29)"

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Lou Nigro wrote:
"Rob is right, I should have said Red Caboose."

Is it kit no. RC-7050? At first glance, this might appear to be another
bogus Red Caboose model, but it's actually pretty accurate based on the
information that we have. NYC built 100 cars in 1926 to the either the
proposed 1923 ARA standard steel boxcar design or the early X29 design (NYC
97000-97099, later renumbered to NYC 128000-128099).
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-504.jpg

I'm hedging because this diagram is the best that we've got so far on this
car. As you can see, it's pretty minimalist, but it clearly shows X29-type
flat ends. Unfortunately, it doesn't confirm the number of side panels or
roof type; however, the dimensions are very close to that of PRR Class X29.
John Nehrich wrote to the NYCSHS requesting photos of these cars, but they
replied that there were no known photos.

It's rather humorous that Red Caboose offered 21 different car numbers for
this 100 car lot. In reality, if you're going by fleet numbers of general
service boxcars, you'd need 210 Westerfield USRA-design steel boxcars for
every one of the Red Caboose kits.


Ben Hom


Re: nice pics

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Mar 6, 2005, at 11:36 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Cleveland, Cuyahoga River, 1941 (note "Dixieland" box car)
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02405.jpg
The 'Dixieland' car is a 1932 ARA car and that is the only photo I have ever seen of one in that scheme! The Erie car next to it is 1932 car as well.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: [PRR] I/M FGEX Reefer

smithbf@...
 

Andy Miller asks:
This month's RMJ has a lengthy article on the FGEX reefers and a
description
of the forthcoming IM model. No mention is made on the IM website of this
car. Does anyone know anything about it beyond what is said in RMJ?
Based on comments (that I hope I recall correctly) by Bill Welch at Cocoa
Beach, as well as posts by Richard and others, this car represents a post
war "rebuild" of the 1920's era FGE cars. Included in this is steel
reinforcing to the wood sides, visible on the sills as small pads, taller
sides (?) and an enlarged (taller) door. This later feature is the most
problematic for those of us looking to backdate this offering to a pre-war
car.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: [PCL] Harriman 60' Baggage Car

jaley <jaley@...>
 

Hooray! I am aware that you had some difficulty with the master patterns
for this car; thanks for sticking with it and getting it done!

Regards,

-Jeff


On Mar 14, 3:22pm, Jon Cagle wrote:
Subject: [PCL] Harriman 60' Baggage Car

Ladies and Gentlemen:

At long last, it's finally ready. The HO scale SC&F 60' Harriman
Baggage
Car is ready and we are taking orders. Unfortunately the sc&f web site
is
not updated yet with a photograph, but it will be soon. And you can
refer
to the web site for ordering information as well.

www.southerncarandfoundry.com

I can be reached at the following email addresses.

jscagle@...
the3dworkshop@...

Thank you to evreyone who has been patient with this endeavor.

Jon Cagle
SC&F





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--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Question about some transition era freight car uses.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Paul Gehrett wrote:


I'm part of a club that is in the midst of designing 2
new layouts. We want these layouts to be operations
based. We want to know the particular types of
freight cars that would be used to service some of the
industries that we want on the layout. For most of
these industries, some cars types are rather obvious.
We're also interested in knowing if there were any
"specialty" freight cars that were unique to the
industry. The general time frame for our layouts is
the 1950's. Finally, when did the grain industry
start using covered hoppers?

The list of industries is:

Brewery
Grain industry
Bridge & Iron works
Paper & timber industry
There are two other types of industries which were widespread if not universal in the eras of the 1950's and before: - the team track and LCL merchandise. In terms of space on a model railroad, team tracks are relatively cheap. Meanwhile, LCL can be anything between just a peddler car on the local freight to massive car transfers which occupied acres. Most industries received spare parts, small machinery, etc. via LCL, and many shipped finished goods in lots which were smaller than carload. Indeed, most industries portrayed on model railroads are not large enough to support carload shipments to diverse destinations, and, thus, were forced to use LCL.

Tim Gilbert


RE NP Reefers

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

Tom

Please don't forget the extra diagonal panel roofs to sell for use on
other kitbash reefer projects.

Bill McCoy
Jax

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
The R-40-25 is in production now for another run! Promised by
InterMountain
for before Christmas, they are a bit behind schedule. However, you
will not
be disappointed!

Tom Jones III
stationmaster@a...

----- Original Message -----
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Intermountain NP Reefers




I haven't seen any mention of Intermountain re-running the NP R40-
23.
The folks at the Amarillo Railroad Museum spomsored the R40-25 in
both NP and PFE versions. In my quest to get some of their
proprietary diagonal panel reefer roofs as a separate part for
other
reefer projects my Amarillo contacts mentioned that they may be
re-
running the long sold out R40-25s. Maybe some members of that
group
who I see occasionally post to this group can fill you in.

Bill McCoy
Jax


Re: "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

Reciprocal switching is a tarrif provision by which one carrier will
deliver to it's on line industry cars that were brought to town by
another, some times competing carrier.

Freight revenue is usually divided into 2 categories, line haul and
switching. The line haul rates are usually divided on interline
shipmwnts roughly by percentage based on the proportion of the
mileage on each carrier participating in the route. Origin and
destination carriers get an extra portion to cover local costs. When
the car reaches it's final destination city terminal area as defined
by the local switching tarrif, delivery to the consignee (or being
forwarded from industry by the shipper) can be performed by another
carrier with their switching charge for this local service being
absorbed in whole or in part by the line haul carrier.

Industries are in the following categories:
Open to reciprocal switching
Closed to recriprocal switching
A local ststion (not in the switching limits defined by tarrif even
though it may be part of the metropolitain area). For example
Naperville, while considered part of the Chicago metropolitian area
is a local station on the BNSF. Moser Lumber would not have been open
to reciprocal switching if it was still there.

Recriprocal switching was a major bone of contention between carries
and customers. Custoners wanted it with no restrictions because`of
the competive options it gave them. Carriers hated it because of the
chance of getting less than $100 revenue from a switch charge instead
of infinately more as the line haul carrier. As a salesman for the
SAL/SCL?FLRS nothing was worse than to be switched on ompetitive
traffic from the Southern. This was good for a large dose of
leadership from my boss about my relationship with my customers.

Dealing with switching is arcane in the exreme and a fascinating back
shop part of the railroad business. For some carriers this was their
whole reason for existance (BRC, IHB, NOPB, NPBL et.al). For the line
haul carrier it usually was a cross to bear except on non competitive
traffic where they couldn't have participated such as pacific
northwest traffic at chicago being switched by the NYC for the MILW
or CNW.

Deregulation reduced these options considerably but the issue still
exists.

I expect the case of Judson-Pacific Murphy at Emeryville, a large
shipper, would have made his locating a plant conditional on open,
unrestricted reciprocal switching especially since all three carriers
were expected to supply equipment and no doubt the WP wouldn't have
much interest in LA bound traffic.

Bill McCoy
Jax





Rob Adams <steamera@n...> wrote:
Shawn;

I can't speak to the specifics of the WP/SP arrangements, or to
whether
this is type of Reciprocal Agreement you are referring, but some of
the
midwest roads that I'm familiar with would enter into agreements
whereby
one road would switch certain industries one period (e.g. year),
and the
other road would handle it the next. I suspect these practices
varied a
great deal, and may have depended to some extent on how much
traffic was
generated and how it was ultimately to be routed. Like you, I'd
really
like to know more about this.

Kind regards, Rob Adams

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

List,

Is there a document or publication that explains the details
of "reciprocal switching"? This Western Pacific circular that
I'm wading through seems to give witness to a lot of this.

An example: The Judson-Pacific Murphy Company (a steel plant)
had two tracks in Emeryville with a combined capacity of 80
cars. That's a heckuva lot of gondolas and boxcars moving in
and out. This whole industry is listed on the tracks of the
Southern Pacific, yet the circular shows this as being served
by the Western Pacific.

How did this work? If the trackage was owned by the Espee, I
can't imagine them standing by while WP took the business of
a very large shipper away from them. Money must have changed
hands for the owner of the trackage (SP) to allow a competitor
(WP) to service one of their on-line industries.

Can someone clarify how this sort of transaction was done?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


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Re: "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain

Paul & Theri Koehler <buygone@...>
 

Shawn:



When an industry was within the "Reciprocal Switching Limits" any carries
serving that "Switching Limits" was considered to be serving that industry.
In your example the SP physically served the industry, but WP could solicit
the long haul on any inbound or outbound traffic and all SP got for the
handling was a switching charge. If on the other hand the industry was not
within the "Reciprocal Switching Limits" then the SP would get a division of
the line haul revenue.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:Shawn.Beckert@...]
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain



List,

Is there a document or publication that explains the details
of "reciprocal switching"? This Western Pacific circular that
I'm wading through seems to give witness to a lot of this.

An example: The Judson-Pacific Murphy Company (a steel plant)
had two tracks in Emeryville with a combined capacity of 80
cars. That's a heckuva lot of gondolas and boxcars moving in
and out. This whole industry is listed on the tracks of the
Southern Pacific, yet the circular shows this as being served
by the Western Pacific.

How did this work? If the trackage was owned by the Espee, I
can't imagine them standing by while WP took the business of
a very large shipper away from them. Money must have changed
hands for the owner of the trackage (SP) to allow a competitor
(WP) to service one of their on-line industries.

Can someone clarify how this sort of transaction was done?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



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Re: Vertical staff brakes

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:
Tank cars with vertical staff brakes were certainly in
service in the 1990s. I'm not aware that they were literally outlawed,
though other features of an older car may have been.
I offer some clarification about the terminology used to describe hand
brakes on freight cars. Recently after spending a day going through
various Railway Age volumes from the 1920s I noticed that the trade
press seem to describe hand brakes by the position of the wheel rather
than the position of the staff. This would mean those descriptions
are just opposite of what we commonly use. The text described
"modern" power brakes as "vertical" and older styles with wheels on
vertical staffs as "horizontal".

I frankly admit that my own field notes, made before I knew alone else
who was interested in freight cars, describe the hand brake
arrangements by the position of the staff.

Do others have different information?

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Question about some transition era freight car uses.

dehusman <dehusman@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Paul Gehrett <pgehrett@c...> wrote:
Brewery
=======================
Boxcars (grain, bottles, beer)
Plug door boxcars (beer)
Insulated boxcars (beer)
Reefers (beer)
Hopper or gon (coal, broken bottles)
======================
Grain industry
======================
Boxcars
======================
Bridge & Iron works
======================
Flat cars
Gondolas
Well cars
======================
Paper & timber industry
=======================
log cars
log flats
pulpwood flats
chip hoppers
bulkhead flats
flatcars
boxcars
plug door boxcars
tank cars
kaolin boxcars
=======================
Thanks to anyone that can help provide information
about freight car movements into and out of these
types of facilities. Or, if there's a website or
another yahoo group that can help, please pass that
info on as well.
=======================
The operations-industries Yahoo group would have more of this info.

Dave H.


Re: Moloco Diagonal Panel Roof (with overhanging eaves)

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

"Gatwood, Elden" wrote:
... but I neglected to get the date of first use on the prototype,
and on what. Any definitive date?
I am sure there are other examples, but ~1956 the B&O started using
"ZU" overhanging roofs with their Class M-65 50-ft double-door box
cars. The next group were the Class M-66 40-ft box cars built in
1957. The Class M-67 also built in 1957 were IH 10"-0" PS-1 cars, but
used the P-S version of the "ZU" roof.

Earlier versions of roofs with overhanging eaves appeared on the NYC
all-steel, USRA clone box cars. All steel refrigerator cars
introduced in the mid-1930s also used roofs with overhanging eaves.
It was illustrated as an alternate design in the CBC from the 1940s,
but rarely adopted.

Can anyone explain why this roof style was adopted for steel reefers,
but not for box cars until almost 20 years later?

Bob Witt


Red Ball A A R Boxcar Kit (X29)

Edwin C. Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
 

I have a Red Ball kit number K-197 for a X29 style box car. I do not have
its original box but it came from M. Dale Newton Co. sometime in the late
fifties.

This kit is not the usual wood kit with printed paper sides. This kit
has the usual wood parts for roof,
floor, sides and three spacer blocks to build up a box to which you
applied wrappers and a wood roof walk. NO instructions! NO decals, NO
trucks, NO couplers of any kind!

The wrappers consist of thin Aluminum stampings with a gummed backing.
The sides, roof and ends
are embossed with two sizes of rivets and plate seams. In the space where
the door would go is
stamped "AAR, Boxcar, sides". And in the middle of roof it is stamped
"Roof". As if we couldn't
figure that out!

The only castings included are: two Youngstown type doors and a
underframe and two body bolsters.
And of course the assorted staples to be used as sill steps and hand
grabs.

The embossing would have to be trimmed to size then bent to fit around
the wood box. If you guys like to build kits, You would Love this one.

I also have the Red Ball PRR X23 box car and F25 well flat car.

Edwin C. Kirstatter.


Re: "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain

Paul & Theri Koehler <buygone@...>
 

Shawn:



When an industry was within the "Reciprocal Switching Limits" any carries
serving that "Switching Limits" was considered to be serving that industry.
In your example the SP physically served the industry, but WP could solicit
the long haul on any inbound or outbound traffic and all SP got for the
handling was a switching charge. If on the other hand the industry was not
within the "Reciprocal Switching Limits" then the SP would get a division of
the line haul revenue.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:Shawn.Beckert@...]
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain



List,

Is there a document or publication that explains the details
of "reciprocal switching"? This Western Pacific circular that
I'm wading through seems to give witness to a lot of this.

An example: The Judson-Pacific Murphy Company (a steel plant)
had two tracks in Emeryville with a combined capacity of 80
cars. That's a heckuva lot of gondolas and boxcars moving in
and out. This whole industry is listed on the tracks of the
Southern Pacific, yet the circular shows this as being served
by the Western Pacific.

How did this work? If the trackage was owned by the Espee, I
can't imagine them standing by while WP took the business of
a very large shipper away from them. Money must have changed
hands for the owner of the trackage (SP) to allow a competitor
(WP) to service one of their on-line industries.

Can someone clarify how this sort of transaction was done?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

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oups/S=1705169725:HM/EXP=1110926504/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n
etflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> click here



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Re: Digest Number 2347

Lou <loumickie@...>
 

Sorry Guys,

Rob is right, I should have said Red Caboose. I do appreciate the
information about the vertical brake staffs - I'll try to be more careful in
my future posts.

Thanks,
Lou Nigro

_______________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:21:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Daniels <shalizadad@...>
Subject: RE: Red Ball "NYC 40 ft Sheathed Boxcar (X-29)"

Okay, just a wild guess here -- did someone mean to
say "Red Caboose" and not "Red Ball?"

Rob Daniels
New York, NY


Re: "Reciprocal" Switching - Please Explain

Gary Roe
 

Shawn asked
Is there a document or publication that explains the details of "reciprocal switching"?



Shawn,

Yes, there is. John Armstrong's book "The Railroad, What It Is, What It Does" will explain it very nicely. My copy is packed away for an impending move, or I would quote from it for you.

gary roe

156161 - 156180 of 195619