Ben,

I guess the other question is, how realistic is it for my late 1940s
to mid 1950s era SP California layout to feature such a car? Would
Frisco gons have been seen off line much by this time? Or at anytime
for that matter?
regards
Stefan

Typical of the Frisco, they rebuilt their USRA composite gons in

five major

variations, including panel steel sides, panel steel sides with side

doors,

composite cars with discharge doors, composite cars with replacement

boards,

Dreadnaught ends, and steel lettering boards, and 10 experimental

car with

panel sides reusing the original side stakes. See the article for more
details.


Ben Hom

Paul,
Thanks for the heads up about the Sunshine kit. I didn't realize that
he offered these cars. However, my original query was more with
respect to what I could do with this spare undecorated IM kit I found
in my pile of unbuilt cars, and whether there were any good decals
available for a suitable prototype to add some off road flavor to my
fleet.
thanks again,
Stefan


.--- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@a... wrote:

In a message dated 3/15/2005 7:29:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steamera@n... writes:
stefanelaine wrote:

Ben,
Hmmm, some great choices. I wonder where I could find a protoype photo
of that SL-SF car with the doors added

Stefan-If you want to do the SL-SF car with the doors added why

don't you

just buy one from Sunshine. They just re-released them last year and

Martin even

had one one his CA swing.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Aidrian,
Well, I was thinking about the MP cars that Ben Hom mentioned, but now
I am intrigued by the Frisco cars as these seem to offer much more
potential for conversion with the IM kit. I model the late 1940s to
mid 1950s era on the SP so that would work.
Stefan


--- In STMFC@..., "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton"
<smokeandsteam@s...> wrote:

Stefan

What timeframe are you thinking of? Many USRA gons were rebuilt or

retired

by the late thirties or early forties so there may not be quite so many
choices if you are working to a later date.

One road that IM never offered as a kit was the Frisco. They had several
thousand built to the same design during the twenties and many

survived into

the post war period, though there were detail variations between

batches and

many underwent rebuilding to a greater or lesser degree. The biggest
changes were the use of dreadnaught ends on the last couple of

batches and

the rebuilding which added steel sides and side doors in various
combinations.

You can use the Oddballs set for the version with side doors to cobble
together enough decal an unrebuilt car.

Cars painted before 1943 were red oxide and those repainted later

were black

- Yesteryear models offered a RTR version in the latter scheme.

Another easy scheme is the old AB&C which can easily be cobbled together
from data sets and Roman lettering. Be aware that this road was absorbed
into the ACL in 1946 and the cars were very quickly retired, or

rebuilt and

re-lettered into the new owner's standard scheme.


Aidrian


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Stefan

What timeframe are you thinking of? Many USRA gons were rebuilt or retired
by the late thirties or early forties so there may not be quite so many
choices if you are working to a later date.

One road that IM never offered as a kit was the Frisco. They had several
thousand built to the same design during the twenties and many survived into
the post war period, though there were detail variations between batches and
many underwent rebuilding to a greater or lesser degree. The biggest
changes were the use of dreadnaught ends on the last couple of batches and
the rebuilding which added steel sides and side doors in various
combinations.

You can use the Oddballs set for the version with side doors to cobble
together enough decal an unrebuilt car.

Cars painted before 1943 were red oxide and those repainted later were black
- Yesteryear models offered a RTR version in the latter scheme.

Another easy scheme is the old AB&C which can easily be cobbled together
from data sets and Roman lettering. Be aware that this road was absorbed
into the ACL in 1946 and the cars were very quickly retired, or rebuilt and
re-lettered into the new owner's standard scheme.


Aidrian


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Brian says:

Given other already identified schemes in the picture, clean X25 in
CK paint, Erie 1932 box with small herald, B&amp;O hoppers with lettering
only, I think it is safe to say the middle boxcar in the back right is

not

painted in a PRR SK scheme, which didn't start appearing to 1954. This

scene

looks late early to mid 1940's.

The photo is dated 1941

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Given other already identified schemes in the picture, clean X25 in CK
paint, Erie 1932 box with small herald, B&O hoppers with lettering only, I
think it is safe to say the middle boxcar in the back right is not painted
in a PRR SK scheme, which didn't start appearing to 1954. This scene looks
late early to mid 1940's.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Ben,

Yes, it is RC-7050.

Lou Nigro
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:13:24 -0500
From: "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@...>
Subject: RE: Red CABOOSE "NYC 40 ft Sheathed Boxcar (X-29)"

Lou Nigro wrote:
"Rob is right, I should have said Red Caboose."

Is it kit no. RC-7050? At first glance, this might appear to be another
bogus Red Caboose model, but it's actually pretty accurate based on the
information that we have. NYC built 100 cars in 1926 to the either the
proposed 1923 ARA standard steel boxcar design or the early X29 design (NYC
97000-97099, later renumbered to NYC 128000-128099).
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-504.jpg

I'm hedging because this diagram is the best that we've got so far on this
car. As you can see, it's pretty minimalist, but it clearly shows X29-type
flat ends. Unfortunately, it doesn't confirm the number of side panels or
roof type; however, the dimensions are very close to that of PRR Class X29.
John Nehrich wrote to the NYCSHS requesting photos of these cars, but they
replied that there were no known photos.

It's rather humorous that Red Caboose offered 21 different car numbers for
this 100 car lot. In reality, if you're going by fleet numbers of general
service boxcars, you'd need 210 Westerfield USRA-design steel boxcars for
every one of the Red Caboose kits.


Ben Hom

Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the refresher course.


Sincerely,
Richard Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
www.richyodermodels.com

Andy Laurent wrote:

The Official List of Open and Prepay Stations does not have any sort of comprehensive list industries and consignees. If you read the text at the heading of those lists in the "Explanation of Notes" section that Shawn mentioned, you will see that it is a list of stations that those rules apply to on a given railroad. Rules 34, 76, 99 and others have lengthy lists of industries because they are "common" car routing rules. Some railroads (the one I model - Ahnapee & Western) have no industries mentioned at all in the book. It is very hit and miss...

You know Andy, the more I read your post, the more irritated I get. I never said the list was
"comprehensive", I said it was extensive - and it is. Read my last paragraph again:

"While the lists of stations in each annual edition of the "List" are
quite large, they are not a full and complete rundown of every industry
on a particular railroad."

I think that about covers it. While the list of industries is nowhere near complete - and I
said so - there are still thousands listed, which makes these books a useful reference for
those who want some idea of what industries were served by which railroads.

I stand by that statement.

Shawn Beckert

Mike,
I just subscribed and it went fine. But if you search Yahoo groups
using the name Licen you still end up with plates<VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jon Miller writes:

I have other tried to find the Licen group but all Yahoo comes up with
is collecting license plates. What is the exact title of the group?

Jon,

Post message: Licen@... Subscribe: Licen-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: Licen-unsubscribe@... List owner: Licen-owner@...
If you can't get in with the subscribe, let me know and I'll put you in.

Mike Brock

Mike,
I have other tried to find the Licen group but all Yahoo comes up with
is collecting license plates. What is the exact title of the group?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Phil Buchwald says:



"I'm surprised that CSX doesn't feel that they own the rights to
the wagontop car itself, never mind the graphics. After all, the
wagontop is as much a symbol of the B&O as the dome herald."

And, of course, CSX can lay claim to 5 letters of the alphabet...I suppose...and even the city of Baltimore and perhaps the entire state of Ohio. In that case, if the city of Baltimore chose to pay CSX tribute and if the state of Ohio chose to do the same, that would be their business...and the business of the voters of the two regions to retire those in charge for incompetence. The same could be said for anyone paying tribute to CSX for using a model of the wagontop box car.

These subjects are, however,...by decree...not within the scope of the STMFC. If anyone cares to discuss such issues, I formed the Licen group a yr or so ago for just this purpose:

Licen-subscribe@...

Thanks,

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

Also, there is the issue that IM's

engineering plans changed, which I knew, but I was loath to change
the article until I knew what they were actually doing. Now the
article is out and I still do not know what they are actually doing.

The original plan was indeed to tool a "high" and "low" side sill as a sort of
insert plug that the modeler could glue in place to represent one or the other
cars. That was indeed the first version of the plans Bill reviewed, as it was my
intention to do the car that way. We found a number of issues with the car,
including trying to figure out how to get the molds to work and allow us to
have that sidesill as a separate piece. We also redesigned the entire car to
take advantage of some new, better information, and reworking the original
design to run on our faster milliing machines.

Why RMJ ran the article I don't know, as the last I heard Bill S told me he
would let me know before the piece went to press so we could offer some
sample parts (if available, they're not yet) and deal with any of the kit
engineering issues.

By way of update, the design is completed and has been reviewed in house
here. We still have one issue re: the bolts used on the roof rib ends. We can
mold the top or bottom, but not both, easily. Once we have that figured out,
and a higher priority project comes out of the milling machines, the reefer will
be next. (With two HO steam era cars completed in the last six months, the
GPEX milk car and the ATSF stock car, it was decided by the powers that be
to pursue a different project before the FGEX car)

As of next week none of this is my day to day problem of course, but since
these things were frequently seen in trains in New England I really want these
cars for myself. I'll have to make sure to bug Matt about them . . .

Marty

Although a newby to this modeling authorship gig, having been a
newsphotographer for 13 years many years ago, I know that there can
be a wide varience between what I submit and what gets used. However
being on the staff and in the newsroom, it was easier in my newspaper
days to influence decisions.

One of my fears in submitting the article, which had a lot of photos
to support and enhance the text, was that in either in editing copy
or photos, that something would get left out that refered to
something that got left in. I have yet to see the article but it
sounds like that happened. Also, there is the issue that IM's
engineering plans changed, which I knew, but I was loath to change
the article until I knew what they were actually doing. Now the
article is out and I still do not know what they are actually doing.

I do plan to write an article on the cars designed by FGE and built
for WFE and FGE that will go further than the RMJ article and it will
allow me to correct any errors or misconceptions.

Bill welch


--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

Bill's text refers to two builders photos of FGEX cars, which do

not appear in the magazine. I suppose if the editor had to leave
some photos out, these should be the ones, considering the original
appearance of the cars is just "background" as far as the IM models
go.

And the article states both the 6" and 8" side sill versions will

be made; I'm guessing IM has backed off a little since it was written?

The pitfalls of an editor publishing something without running it

by the author one last time...

Scott Pitzer
=======

-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <bwelch@u...>

Subject: [STMFC] Re: I/M FGEX Reefer



I was somewhat surprized that RMJ elected to run this article

before

IM issues the kit, and I have not seen my article in print yet.

Bill's text refers to two builders photos of FGEX cars, which do not appear in the magazine. I suppose if the editor had to leave some photos out, these should be the ones, considering the original appearance of the cars is just "background" as far as the IM models go.
And the article states both the 6" and 8" side sill versions will be made; I'm guessing IM has backed off a little since it was written?
The pitfalls of an editor publishing something without running it by the author one last time...
Scott Pitzer
=======

On Mar 16, 2005, at 10:36 AM, ed_mines wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "englishintroy" <englij@r...> wrote:
in a message I posted on 2001 August 17: "At long last and at great
expense, I have obtained from the NYCSHS copies of the builder's
photos ....."

Jeff, do you remember how much those prints cost? Do you know how
much prints from NYCHS cost now?

Ed:

I believe that they are still $25 per print.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912

--- In STMFC@..., "englishintroy" <englij@r...> wrote:
in a message I posted on 2001 August 17: "At long last and at great
expense, I have obtained from the NYCSHS copies of the builder's
photos ....."

Jeff, do you remember how much those prints cost? Do you know how
much prints from NYCHS cost now?

Ed Mines

Thanks Mark, I've actually been looking at that site
for a while. I just wish the photos were a little more
detailed. And some photos of the ends wouldn't have
hurt either. I don't think there's much chance of
going back in time to 1961 to retake the photos so for
now they are probably our best online resource.

Rob Daniels
New York, NY

--- Mark Heiden <mark_heiden@...> wrote:

Hi Rob,

There is an LNE website that has some photos that
may be of use to
you:

http://www.gingerb.com/L&NE_Freight_Equipment_1961.htm

Mark Heiden


--- In STMFC@..., Rob Daniels
<shalizadad@y...> wrote:

Hi Group,

I'm looking for any or all of the following
information regarding the appliances used on LNE

1923

ARA boxcars following AB upgrades:

1) What type of brake housing (I believe it was

power

brakes, but not sure what kind)
2) What type of cut lever (carmer, upper or lower

bar)

3) Was the three-lever system like the one on the

PRR

X29 retained, or was it converted to the more
conventional two-lever AB arrangement?
4) What type of trucks was used?

Thanks!

Rob Daniels
New York, NY




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