Date   

Re: Central of Ga Resin Ventilated Boxcar

C J Wyatt
 

<<
The body, underframe and interior braces were created by 3D Solid Modeling
Cad software and built using the Stereolithography (SL) process.<

This is interesting because the last I heard was that SL simply couldn't
do the detail required in modern master work. Has a break through been
achieved?

Jon Miller
I don't know if Jim King, proprietor of Smoky Mountain Model Works, is on
the list, but he is a professional in the rapid prototyping field. Here is a
link to his website, if you want to know more:

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

Jack Wyatt


Re: Central of Ga Resin Ventilated Boxcar

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Rapid prototyping has gone far beyond the product Smokey Mountain has launched. At Timonium in January I saw N scale diesel shells as good as any injection molded ones and an N X23 approaching HO. Shortly, you will be able to order shells on line by choosing exactly which details you want and the RP will make it for you! Resin costs prohibit scales large than N right now. This is truly the future of model production. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Miller
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Central of Ga Resin Ventilated Boxcar


>The body, underframe and interior braces were created by 3D Solid Modeling
Cad software and built using the Stereolithography (SL) process.<

This is interesting because the last I heard was that SL simply couldn't
do the detail required in modern master work. Has a break through been
achieved?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




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color code

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I have an oil distributor on my layout that will receive oil products in steel barrels (oil drums) in box cars. Is, was there a color code for barrels containing different products?
Thanks for your help,
Clark Propst
Red Star Oil
Mason City Iowa


Re: see through metal roof walks

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Apr 8, 2005, at 11:26 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:


Thomas M. Olsen wrote:
98 degrees and 98% humidity sucks!
Indeed it does, and it buckles benchwork as well as running
boards. I've been there.
As long as we're on the thread of nostalgia, I spent a lot of time in my parents' basement growing up and it was never that warm or humid. I think the central air upstairs and the dehumidifier in the basement probably had a lot to do with it, which is why we are looking for homes with central air now. Also, read the article in this month's MR about steel benchwork. Alright, that's far enough off topic for me.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Entry-level models and simple kits

armprem
 

Tom,I couldn't agree with you more.I quess we all have to consider the
state of the art at a given time.I started building Varney paper side
cars.Like most,my first locomotive was a Varney Dockside.I later bought a
Mantua Eight Ball Mogul and 0-4-0 Camelback.Back then I used Mantua loop
couplers.I tried others along the way,but it was John Allen that convinced
me to try Kadee couplers even though he used Bakers.My first "large engine"
was a Varney Ten Wheeler.Fidelity to prototype was not an issue as long as
they looked good and ran well.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom or Gail Madden" <tgmadden@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 9:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Entry-level models and simple kits



I think we're confusing two things here: entry-level models and
easy-to-assemble kits. The definition of "entry level" has evolved
considerably since I gave up Lionel for HO scale in 1951. Prior to the
post-W.W.II period a competent modeler was expected to have command of a
wide range of metal-working skills. Authors of construction articles
presumed their readers knew how to cut, form, file, drill, tap and solder
brass and didn't need to have those techniques explained in their
articles.
The Mantua Belle of the '80s 4-4-0 and 8-Ball Mogul 2-6-0 were touted as
entry level kits when introduced because the brass parts were already
formed
and punched, and no soldering was required. By 1951, "entry level" meant
die
cast locomotives, like the Mantua Shifter 0-4-0 (my first loco kit), and
the
Belle and 8-Ball were now craftsman kits. The Shifter, along with other
die
cast kits from Mantua, Penn Line, Varney, English and Bowser meant you no
longer had to be a machinist to be a model railroader, and the hobby grew
accordingly.

Same story with rolling stock. Once we got past the paper side era,
Athearn
and Globe (my first car kit) metal boxcars were entry level for a time,
followed by Varney and MDC's metal offerings (fewer parts than Globe and
Athearn), and then Athearn plastic. Richard is right, much of it was junk
(remember the 6" thick Varney roofwalks?) but they brought many of us into
the hobby.

Rather than follow that timeline up to the present, I'll just make the
observation that "entry level" today means ready to run. The typical model
railroading newcomer is looking for something to run, not something to
build. Even someone considering the hobby who really wants to build
something isn't likely to look at a Kadee PS-1 (let alone an Athearn
Challenger) and say "I could do that - sell me a kit!" They will be
captured
by the totality of the hobby, not by the urge to build steam era freight
car
kits. That may come later, but kit building isn't entry level any more.

Easy to assemble kits is (are) something else, but that's fodder for
another
post.

Tom Madden





Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

armprem
 

Ah,that's the rub,"By todays' standards".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy



Richard Hendrickson wrote:
As for
Silver Streak, their models were generic, REALLY crude, and, � worse �
dimensionally incorrect. For example, the reefers were several scale
feet too long and much too tall. "Not all that bad?" C'mon, Armand.
Relative to what?
I'd certainly agree about Silver Streak. Several of the kits were
visible oversize; their "SP caboose" is about 10 per cent oversize in
all dimensions (maybe it's supposed to be OO scale <g>) and several
others are only approximately correct size. And the detail parts were a
joke by today's standards.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

jerryglow2
 

And along with the mentality of conversion to RTR will (already is)
see the purging of parts from availability. It's getting difficult to
even get replacement parts for damaged or missing ones.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Clyde Williams" <billdgoat@i...> wrote:

The RTR vs kits is not the issue here. The issue is do I want to
spend
many hours assembling a difficult kit, or buy an RTR and spend that
time doing wiring, scenery, etc. Of course, buying RTR reduces the
money available to buy wire, scenery materials but that my judgement
call.
However, as a modeler who CAN build Red Caboose, etc. kits, and has
done so many times, I can't help but wonder about who could be so
inept that they have to pay extra for assembled Athearn and MDC
cars.
Do they have carpal tunnel syndrome so bad that they can't shake the
box hard enough? LOL.
I haven't checked lately. Are Athearn and MDC cars still even
available as kits?
Bill Williams


Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

jerryglow2
 

I don't think you'll find any disagreement from most on this list. I
think the angst is with the lack of kits. I question if the current
higher priced but RTR models are introducing more to the hobby than
simpler lower priced kits. The hobby needs an entry level (price and
quality) product. Remember, it's not the high cost of living, it's
the cost of living high.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., CalifCoast <califcoast@y...> wrote:
Come on guys, we all started with this type of "easy"
kit. Yes we all prefer the more detailed kit now.
Don't forget the newbies coming into the hobby. If
the "easy" kits disappear and all that are left are
true craftsman kits, the opportunity to learn like we
did, start with the "shake the box," then learn to
remove cast on details and replace with better, is
gone. How would you like to start learning with a
resin kit that you have to trim, detail with wire and
other pieces, and then paint and decal. I'll bet a
lot of us would have left the hobby if that was how we
started. We were lucky that we didn't start with the
old wood and paper cars and had the plastic simple
kits to learn on at a low price.

Craftsman kits are great but there is still a place
for the old "blue boxes" in this world. Give one of
those types of kits to a young boy or girl who can
build it and watch it run and watch the expression on
their face. That is what this hobby is all about
besides our personal enjoyment, bringing this
enjoyment to others so they can learn and progress
too.

Now I will remove my soap box and go stir my stew over
my campfire...

Jim Scott
Lompoc, CA.


Re: see through metal roof walks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Thomas M. Olsen wrote:
98 degrees and 98% humidity sucks!
Indeed it does, and it buckles benchwork as well as running boards. I've been there.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: see through metal roof walks

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Tony,

98 degrees and 98% humidity sucks!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Jeff Aley wrote:


Right message, wrong spin. What you MEANT to say was that there's
no way that those running boards will survive a CONNECTICUT winter, and
that therefore, Ted should STAY in CALIFORNIA!

I wouldn't quibble in any way with Jeff's preferred message,
though I have a faint suspicion that resistance is futile. But just in
passing, let me add, based on my own eastern experience, that it will
be the summers that hurt for the topic under discussion.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Richard,

As they say, "the good old days were fun" but it is nostalgia that is
doing the talking. Anyway, the only reason for keeping an original '55
T-Bird is because today, they are worth a lot of dough in good
condition. The one regret that I cannot go back to mid-1953 (I was only
9-1/2 then) to watch the steam/diesel show on the Middle Division up
close in real time; otherwise, as far as I am concerned, they can keep
the "good old days!"

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479


Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Apr 8, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Robert Welsh wrote:


Right on Richard.....
I own a mid-60's Mustang. I drive it on pretty days
for short trips. Its not the most comfortable thing in
the world for this middle-aged man to park his butt in
for a long drive though!

To which Chuck Hladik adds: AMEN!!!!!!!!! But I still want my 57
T-Bird back.

I once owned a '67 Shelby GT-350, a truly great car in its day but I'm
glad I'm not driving it today; my '04 Subaru WRX goes faster, handles
and stops better, is more comfortable, has four seats and four doors,
and delivers vastly better fuel mileage and that's not trivial in
Southern Oregon, where the price of premium unleaded is now approaching
$2.80 a gallon. When I'm feeling nostalgic, I can drive my wife's '70
MG-B roadster, which is loads of fun with the top down on a nice day
but increasingly a museum piece, though it runs as well (and as
reliably) as when it was new. Now, back to freight cars. I just got
a Sunshine kit that I'm eager to start working on.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: see through metal roof walks

Jim Barnes <atsfjim@...>
 

You can buy Barge cement at any ACE hardware store. It is great stuff and I use it all the time for this application.
Jim Barnes

ed_mines <ed_mines@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach wrote:
My current "best practice" is to use tiny bits of Barge Cement

Where do you get "barge cement"?

Ed







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Central of Ga Resin Ventilated Boxcar

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

The body, underframe and interior braces were created by 3D Solid Modeling
Cad software and built using the Stereolithography (SL) process.<

This is interesting because the last I heard was that SL simply couldn't
do the detail required in modern master work. Has a break through been
achieved?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Intermountain shake-up?

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
... in my own defense I would like to point out that,
for years, it was all but impossible to get a straight story from
anyone at Intermountain. Consequently many of us were very pleased
when Marty McGuirk went to work there.
Before Marty, the only time InterMountain had anyone in management
even remotely connected to the modeling side of the hobby was the
relatively short Miles Hale era. Once J. P. Barger became the
principal investor in InterMountain, things changed for the better. JP
was the one who insisted the PFE R-40-10 body tooling be recut. And
when it still wasn't to his satisfaction, he made them recut it again.
I think I still have one of those first R-40-10's, with the rivet and
seam detail so shallow it practically disappeared under paint.

JP brought Marty in so there'd be someone within the company capable
of making informed and intelligent product decisions, both internally
and externally. That he turned out to be a good manager was a plus,
but not unexpected. That he had the wisdom to select a successor well
in advance speaks well not only of Marty, but of Matt.

OK Matt, go get 'em!

Tom Madden


Re: see through metal roof walks

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

jaley wrote:

Right message, wrong spin. What you MEANT to say was that there's
no way that those running boards will survive a CONNECTICUT winter, and
that therefore, Ted should STAY in CALIFORNIA!
Hey! Let the man move wherever he wants to.

Regards, Spen Kellogg (in CT)


Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
As for
Silver Streak, their models were generic, REALLY crude, and, – worse –
dimensionally incorrect. For example, the reefers were several scale
feet too long and much too tall. "Not all that bad?" C'mon, Armand.
Relative to what?
I'd certainly agree about Silver Streak. Several of the kits were
visible oversize; their "SP caboose" is about 10 per cent oversize in
all dimensions (maybe it's supposed to be OO scale <g>) and several
others are only approximately correct size. And the detail parts were a
joke by today's standards.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 8, 2005, at 5:29 PM, armand premo wrote:


Couldn't resist,Central Valley and Silver Streak kits were not all
that
bad nor were the early Globes....
George Hook's Central Valley kits were, indeed, significantly better
than most others that were available at the time, and the Globe kits
were a real breakthrough in prototype accuracy in their day. But both
were crude by current standards, even if carefully assembled. As for
Silver Streak, their models were generic, REALLY crude, and, – worse –
dimensionally incorrect. For example, the reefers were several scale feet too long and much too tall. "Not all that bad?" C'mon, Armand.
Relative to what?


Entry-level models and simple kits

Tom or Gail Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

I think we're confusing two things here: entry-level models and easy-to-assemble kits. The definition of "entry level" has evolved considerably since I gave up Lionel for HO scale in 1951. Prior to the post-W.W.II period a competent modeler was expected to have command of a wide range of metal-working skills. Authors of construction articles presumed their readers knew how to cut, form, file, drill, tap and solder brass and didn't need to have those techniques explained in their articles. The Mantua Belle of the '80s 4-4-0 and 8-Ball Mogul 2-6-0 were touted as entry level kits when introduced because the brass parts were already formed and punched, and no soldering was required. By 1951, "entry level" meant die cast locomotives, like the Mantua Shifter 0-4-0 (my first loco kit), and the Belle and 8-Ball were now craftsman kits. The Shifter, along with other die cast kits from Mantua, Penn Line, Varney, English and Bowser meant you no longer had to be a machinist to be a model railroader, and the hobby grew accordingly.

Same story with rolling stock. Once we got past the paper side era, Athearn and Globe (my first car kit) metal boxcars were entry level for a time, followed by Varney and MDC's metal offerings (fewer parts than Globe and Athearn), and then Athearn plastic. Richard is right, much of it was junk (remember the 6" thick Varney roofwalks?) but they brought many of us into the hobby.

Rather than follow that timeline up to the present, I'll just make the observation that "entry level" today means ready to run. The typical model railroading newcomer is looking for something to run, not something to build. Even someone considering the hobby who really wants to build something isn't likely to look at a Kadee PS-1 (let alone an Athearn Challenger) and say "I could do that - sell me a kit!" They will be captured by the totality of the hobby, not by the urge to build steam era freight car kits. That may come later, but kit building isn't entry level any more.

Easy to assemble kits is (are) something else, but that's fodder for another post.

Tom Madden


Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

I started building steam era freight cars when I was twelve by scratch
building them from wood and cardstock. (an A.T. & S.F. BX-9 IIRC from an
old article in the August 1948 MR) I didn't have cash for Athearn, etc.
I started buying kits later when I had a paper route. Then I bought both
easy and difficult kits and scratch building supplies.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: some kits are difficult for the average guy


Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Before
those of us who were around in the '40s and '50s wax too nostalgic
about "the good old days," let's be honest about the fact that most of
the old wood and cardboard freight car kits were painfully crude by
current standards and that the early plastic "shake the box" kits,
though easy to assemble, were as bad or worse in their own way . . .
Speaking only for myself and Denny, there is no nostalgia for the

QUALITY of those kits, though perhaps some for the emotional
attachment. Both of us were reacting to the statement earlier that we
should be glad we didn't have to learn modeling on those "tough" kits.
We sure did learn some modeling and I don't regret any of it, though as
Richard says, detail parts including trucks were appallingly crude by
comparison to today's products. But that wasn't the topic.

. . . Improvements in quality and accuracy haven't made converts of
the
perpetual train set bozos in the hobby, just widened the gap between
them and the serious scale modelers.
Well said and very true. Let's not confuse serious modeling
with bozo "modeling" (as Tony Koester once famously said, "they're not
modeling anything, they're just having fun with trains").

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: see through metal roof walks

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

Doug Brown
It depends on what season the pre-60's model was built.

More on topic, did any wood roofwalks on steel cars experience this
problem or were they fastened in a way to preclude these problems?

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] see through metal roof walks


Jeff Aley wrote:
Right message, wrong spin. What you MEANT to say was that
there's
no way that those running boards will survive a CONNECTICUT winter,
and
that therefore, Ted should STAY in CALIFORNIA!
I wouldn't quibble in any way with Jeff's preferred message,
though I have a faint suspicion that resistance is futile. But just in
passing, let me add, based on my own eastern experience, that it will
be the summers that hurt for the topic under discussion.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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