Date   

Re: Essential freight cars in RMC

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

"Essential" seems to indicate "you should have one" which may not be true
(era, road or geographic area etc).<
Actually I believe "you should have one" is what the series is all
about. These are cars that would show up on all roads most of the time.
Era might change this some but I think the era this list is concerned with,
it would be true.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Essential freight cars in RMC

jerryglow2
 

I don't know if he coined it or picked it up elsewhere but Terry
Wiegman used to use the phrase "historically significant" which I
like better. "Essential" seems to indicate "you should have one"
which may not be true (era, road or geographic area etc). Terry's
term to me, indicates a car that fits and is like a historical
landmark for freight cars. Just a matter of personal interpretation,
I guess.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Dean Payne" <deanpayne@n...> wrote:

First off, cudos to Ted for this series and for his modeling
abilities! I have learned a lot, and expect I will learn more.
My
best efforts would not stand up to the close-up shots I've drooled
over.

However, I don't have all the issues, so I don't know what the
list is
so far. He doesn't seem to be doing them in order from 'most
essential' to 'least'.
Dean Payne


Essential freight cars in RMC

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

First off, cudos to Ted for this series and for his modeling
abilities! I have learned a lot, and expect I will learn more. My
best efforts would not stand up to the close-up shots I've drooled over.

However, I don't have all the issues, so I don't know what the list is
so far. He doesn't seem to be doing them in order from 'most
essential' to 'least'. I was worried when I saw the carbon black and
vinegar cars that we were at the end of the series! (They can't be
seen as essential individually, but he makes a good point that some
oddball cars would be present in any yard, take your pick which cars
those would be.) I am gratified that he is continuing on.
What is the list of cars up 'til now? I wonder what's missing... I
don't remember seeing USRA hoppers, but builing a fleet of those to
Ted's standards is a daunting task. Ted, can we have a hint of future
cars to be included? Anybody want to cast votes for "most essential
freight car not availble in styrene or resin?" I suppose that gets
down to what you mean by "not available"; what you are willing to
accept as a stand-in. I think we are missing a Proto/RC/IM-quality 36'
DS box car in styrene, the MDC models are not an acceptable stand-in.
Funaro has some in resing that I may be able to get 2-for-1 at the next
train show, but I don't know whether the quality of the casting is up
to Proto/RC/IM standards! (Their recent kits are better, I don't knwo
where any of their 36' DS offerings fall. I just noticed they are now
selling the B&O M53 wagontop direct.)
Dean Payne


Re: Sunshine Models email address or web presence?

Edward Dabler
 

In a message dated 4/21/2005 2:17:23 PM Central Standard Time,
stefanelaine@... writes:
Does anyone have an email for Martin Lofton or Sunshine models? I'd
like to get in touch with him directly before sending an order.
thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada


Stefan

Martin does not have an email connection or a web site.

Ed Dabler


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Sunshine and the Internet

Brad Bourbina <bbbourb@...>
 

Gee, Jerry, if you feel that strongly about it why don't you help him create one? The fact you can use e-mail already gives you more internet knowledge then Martin. For that matter, since Martin is so good at filling that steam-era niche with quality models for MoP prototypes, couldn't the MPHS add an "info page" with one of his catalogs? Don't give me any about free advertising either, Martin won't be around forever and I for one would love to help him out. If I could ever get HTML figured out I may do that.

Brad Bourbina
Quit gripin' and find a way to make it happen


From: asychis@...
Date: 2005/04/22 Fri AM 01:16:09 EDT
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine and the Internet


In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:51:41 PM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
Sorry, but Martin doesn't do e-mail. He's too busy with the business.
Letters work, but he can be slow to answer sometimes.
But it is about high time he did. The internet is a powerful source of
information and becoming essential to both producers and consumers. Seems that
Westerfield isn't crippled by being too busy with the HIS business to use the
internet. I don't think this is the case, I think it is an excuse to cover an
aversion to learning to use the internet. I don't see more Sunshine models
coming out versus Westerfield, so the "busy" argument doesn't hold much water.
It would be nice to see what Martin has available via a website rather than
have to write each time you need a product list, and then wait two to three
months to get the information! Would it be better if this list didn't exist and we
sent out a letter every two to three months with everyone's questions and
answers? I think it's time for Martin to join the real world.

Jerry Michels


Re: AAR Stencilling Standards - Why the lines?

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I haven't yet figured out the purpose of lines above the reporting
marks and below the car number. The standard placement of reporting
marks makes sense, but I can't figure out why the lines would be there,
from a practical point of view.
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., "bierglaeser" <bierglaeser@y...> wrote:

Judging by the foregoing messages on this topic there was a lot of
latitude regarding the presence or absence of lines above the
reporting marks and below the car number.

SNIP >
In 1960 the otherwise identical diagram is changed to locate the
reporting marks in relation to the top of the rail instead of the
bottom edge of the car side. This same diagram is shown in 1961.

In 1962 diagram is the first to appear without lines above the
reporting marks and below the car number.

Once again the oft repeated advice 'work from a photo' appears to be
the best way to go.

Gene Green


Re: It's the sheathing...

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Expectations, expectations. Remember, manufacturers are issuing product not just for the few experts on this list but also a much wider audience. I continue to use Evergreen because it is expected. In fact, with my recent gon release I used individual boards because Evergreen did not have any the correct spacing but beveled the edges so the "scribing" would show better.

The trick in being successful is to walk a fine line between accuracy, expectation and ease of manufacture and construction. Byron Rose is one of the finest pattern builders around but his work gives me absolute fits trying to produce a saleable kit. That's because he refuses to compromise with accuracy. I compromise all the time, hopefully little enough that most modelers will forgive me in the euphoria of getting a car never produced before.

Regarding the internet, I find it invaluable because I can show the whole catalog, always up to date. Setting it up was a real bear, taking about 2 full weeks of spare time. And it took me several long days to change all the prices for the increase to be uploaded May 1. But changes and new products are really easy to do, built into the process of photographing the models and writing the history. I wish I could get rid of the paper catalog because keeping that up to date is much more difficult and expensive. Many customers still prefer it, so we keep it. Yet having that digitized now makes it easier than the old paste-up days.
I use a separate computer for all the graphics work to avoid clogging up the "business" computer. - Al Westerfield


Re: Sunshine and the Internet

Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

SNARLLLLLLL! Catfight!

Ooooooh! There is nothing better than a fight between authors and publishers
of books on railroad history!

Tom Jones III

----- Original Message -----

Jerry Michels wrote:

Sorry, but Martin doesn't do e-mail. . .
But it is about high time he did. The internet is a powerful source of
information and becoming essential to both producers and consumers. . .
Gosh, Jerry, thanks for sharing. It's up to Martin, not to you,
and is also off topic for this list, as I understand it. If you really
want to send a message to Martin, why not do it directly?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA


Re: Sunshine and the Internet

Brian Termunde
 

In a message dated 4/21/2005 11:19:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
asychis@... writes:

I think it's time for Martin to join the real world.

Jerry Michels




---> Jerry, while I see what you are saying, and can agree with you, there
are those who, for various reason, feel uncomfortable or have an aversion to
using the computer. What is too bad is that he can't get someone to host a
minimal website (something that isn't fancy, and is easy to update) with this
information. Anyway, my pair of pennies on it.

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


Re: Digest Number 2412

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 4/22/2005 3:15:27 AM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
For those who don't know, the rules of the STMFC
expressly forbid discussing the business practices of a manufacturer:
Sorry guys, I got carried away.

Jerry Michels


Re: Sunshine and the Internet

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jerry Michels wrote:

Sorry, but Martin doesn't do e-mail. . .
But it is about high time he did. The internet is a powerful source of
information and becoming essential to both producers and consumers. . .
Gosh, Jerry, thanks for sharing. It's up to Martin, not to you, and is also off topic for this list, as I understand it. If you really want to send a message to Martin, why not do it directly?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: DRGW 6500 series flat

Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

"Carriage bolts" is the correct term for bolts that have a rounded head with
a small square boss below the head at the top of the bolt shaft/threads. The
top of the bolt indeed looks like a rivet driven through the wood. Carriage
bolts are very commonly used to bolt down wood to metal structures, much
more so than standard hex head or square head bolts. This is because the
bolts do not prove to be a snag to loads, and because only one person is
needed to install them, as the square boss below the bolt head catches in
the wood and keeps the bolt from spinning while tightening. Rivets would
almost never be used to hold wood to a structure, as wood simply cannot
stand the riveting process without splitting, and once driven, a rivet is
not replaceable, but wood does wear out rapidly.

Carriage bolts were originally used for bolting together the frames and
structures on carriages, hence their name. They are very nice looking when
installed on an exposed surface, such as one might find on a wagon, etc.
They would be only slightly exposed on a flat car deck, and because loads
would tend to wear them on the tops, rust and other weathering would be
common after only a few uses of the car.

Tom Jones III

----- Original Message -----

(snip!) Those are, of course, bolt heads. On SP drawings they are
called
out as "carriage bolts," but whether that usage was universal, I don't
know. (More snipping!)


Re: Bettendorf underframe,

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Does anyone have a photo or two of the Bettendorf
underframe used on the PFE reefers they'd be willing
to share ? A web site would work too.
There were photos in Cycs, and I have scans of some. Which one do you want? the original PFE 30-ton one?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: DRGW 6500 series flat

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chuck Hladik wrote:
Am building the PBL kit of a DRGW 6500 series flat in Sn3 for a friend
and am at a loss as to how many "rivets" held down each individual deck plank.
On the kit, and PBL verifies this, the planks are 11.5" wide by width of the
car. Sure seems wide as my HO and O Red Caboose decks have 6" planks and one
"rivet" per position on each plank. Would an 11.5" have 2 "rivets" per position?
Those are, of course, bolt heads. On SP drawings they are called out as "carriage bolts," but whether that usage was universal, I don't know. On SP flats there was a bolt at the outer edge of each plank.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ADMIN: Manufacturer's Business Practices? Nope.

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I was hoping that we could discuss the relative merits of different and/or new resin/whatever techniques without making judgements about the actions of various manufacturers. For those who don't know, the rules of the STMFC expressly forbid discussing the business practices of a manufacturer:

"Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free
from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group.

ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES."

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Bettendorf underframe,

wp913a@yahoo.com <wp913a@...>
 

Hi,
Does anyone have a photo or two of the Bettendorf
underframe used on the PFE reefers they'd be willing
to share ? A web site would work too.
Thanks
Felix Daigre


Re: It's the sheathing...

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Apr 21, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:


--- Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote:

, I am also not one of the boycotter purists as I
think
personally, I would be cutting off my nose to spite
my face if I ignored all of the models produced with
Evergreen siding.

TED,
I don't view it as cutting off your nose at all.
BOYCOTT any excessive board spacing SS cars, and maybe
FH will be inspired to make his own sheathing. The
amount of time saved in producing fine sheathing vs
using Evergreen stock is a small part of the patern
maker's time. We modelers complain about molded on
grab irons, yet ACCEPT gross SS sides-seems oxymoronic
to me. Martin has stated that he would prefer
abandoning Evergreen scribed siding in his cars, but
he uses FH, and FH is adamant about using
Evergreen....!

We will eventually get better sides universally, until
then, our buying selections will influence how fast
this time will come.
Andy:

Frank hasn't used Evergreen for years. Anything that comes out with the Evergreen is because Martin was sitting on the patterns waiting for what he deemed to be an appropriate release schedule. Look at the NP single sheathed car that was released two years ago.

Regards,
ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: It's the sheathing...

Andy Carlson
 

--- Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote:

, I am also not one of the boycotter purists as I
think
personally, I would be cutting off my nose to spite
my face if I ignored all of the models produced with
Evergreen siding.

TED,
I don't view it as cutting off your nose at all.
BOYCOTT any excessive board spacing SS cars, and maybe
FH will be inspired to make his own sheathing. The
amount of time saved in producing fine sheathing vs
using Evergreen stock is a small part of the patern
maker's time. We modelers complain about molded on
grab irons, yet ACCEPT gross SS sides-seems oxymoronic
to me. Martin has stated that he would prefer
abandoning Evergreen scribed siding in his cars, but
he uses FH, and FH is adamant about using
Evergreen....!

We will eventually get better sides universally, until
then, our buying selections will influence how fast
this time will come.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: It's the sheathing...

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Apr 21, 2005, at 3:06 PM, Scott Pitzer wrote:

Used to be, a well-detail model in a close-up photo would probably be "given away" by the size of the wheel treads or the couplers. Or possibly by grab irons being too heavy. All those things have improved, or can be improved, as shown in Ted's Essential Freight Cars series. But in the latest installment on alternate ARA single-sheathed box cars, the giveaway is the sheathing used by the pattern maker who created the resin kit. This has been mentioned before, and come to think of it, I believe I heard Sylvan has kits that are a big improvement. But I was wondering if there's hope for some better sheet products (varying widths) to come on the market--
better than what Evergreen currently offers. I don't necessarily see myself using them to create a car, but it would be nice if they were available to those pattern makers we depend on...
Scott:

I think that either scribing individual boards or using individual strips of styrene are the way to go. While I don't like the sheathing on these models, I am also not one of the boycotter purists as I think personally, I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face if I ignored all of the models produced with Evergreen siding.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Sunshine and the Internet

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:51:41 PM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
Sorry, but Martin doesn't do e-mail. He's too busy with the business.
Letters work, but he can be slow to answer sometimes.
But it is about high time he did. The internet is a powerful source of
information and becoming essential to both producers and consumers. Seems that
Westerfield isn't crippled by being too busy with the HIS business to use the
internet. I don't think this is the case, I think it is an excuse to cover an
aversion to learning to use the internet. I don't see more Sunshine models
coming out versus Westerfield, so the "busy" argument doesn't hold much water.
It would be nice to see what Martin has available via a website rather than
have to write each time you need a product list, and then wait two to three
months to get the information! Would it be better if this list didn't exist and we
sent out a letter every two to three months with everyone's questions and
answers? I think it's time for Martin to join the real world.

Jerry Michels

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