Date   

Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Larry;
This is great news. We have needed a good insulated tank for many
years.

By chance, will any of those tanks come with a dome platform? Are
there
plans to pursue any other tank variations, or is this a one-shot
deal?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

And will the proper time periods for these cars P&L schemes be
provided?
Bill Williams


Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Larry Grubb <larry450sl@...>
 

Eldon,
The dome platforms will be as shown in the Kominsky drawing, just a plank on the sides of the tank midway between the handrail and the dome. As to future type 21 tank car variations, we have looked into many of them but the difficulty is in finding a physical design that is consistent for 6 paint schemes in the era of AB brakes. A more likely (Though not yet decided on) approach for us would be to back-date the brakes to the original K brakes and produce the three tanks we currently have (8,000, 10,000 & 10,000 insulated) in earlier paint schemes. Producing a resin mini-kit for converting our undec 10,000 gallon insulated kit to one with a platform with railings that surround the dome (such as the Tarvia car that Jerry Stewart is lusting after) might be a good project for someone to do and I would be happy to provide any help I can to any interested parties, as the chance of our doing this particular variation is close to nil.

Larry Grubb
"Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@hdrinc.com> wrote:
Larry;
This is great news. We have needed a good insulated tank for many
years.

By chance, will any of those tanks come with a dome platform? Are there
plans to pursue any other tank variations, or is this a one-shot deal?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Larry Grubb
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Proto 2000 tank car

FYI,
We expect to ship the kits (2 road numbers per paint scheme) in December
2005 and 2 more road numbers for each paint scheme as RTR in March 2006.
The underframe will be the same as our previous Type 21 tank cars, with
AB brakes. The drawing on page 223 and the bottom of page 222 of the
Kominski Tank Cars book (Not the Kominski AC&F book) is accurate as to
the design except the K brakes, but be aware that this drawing is to
scale for the 8,000 gallon version, we will be doing the 10,000 gallon
version. The correct dimensions for the 10,000 gallon version are listed
in the table in the center of the drawing. Please also note that most of
the tank dimensions are inside dimensions of the tank, not outside
dimensions of the tank with insulation & jacketing. Tooling has begun
and we expect to have first shots by June 1. Paint schemes and number
series will be:
TCX 9350-9389 Aluminum tank/ Black underframe, black billboard "TEXACO"
SDRX 26100-26199 Black tank & underframe,aluminum billboard "SINCLAIR"
MPCX (late 50's-early 60's) Black tank & underframe, white reporting
marks
GATX 37100-37449 Black tank & underframe, white reporting marks
MPCX 1500-1649 (Post WWII) White tank/ black underframe, black reporting
marks
EORX 1129-1149 Black tank & underframe, white Cities Service trefoil
logo
UNDEC Black tank & underframe

I'll post photos as the parts become available.

Larry Grubb,
Life-Like Products

CASO <caso@canadasouthern.com> wrote:
Walthers is listing a Life Like Proto 2000 - 10,000 gallon INSULATED
tank
car kit as a future release. Anyone know when this is expected to be
released ?

Some of the cars announced match up to photos in the ACF book.

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@canadasouthern.com
www.canadasouthern.com



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Re: F-70-7-- possible stand-in for C&EI?

Ed Hawkins
 

On Friday, April 29, 2005, at 06:24 AM, Scott Pitzer wrote:

In Classic Freight Cars Volume 6 by Maywald (I almost wrote
"Henderson") there's C&EI 70-ton flat 42088 and the very similar
looking SP 562781.  Similar in having 16 stake pockets, with close
spacing for the two nearest each end.
Is the C&EI car in the ballpark?  I suppose it depends on what league
you're playing in.  (And I'm taking a chance on whether it was built
by the end of our era.)

Scott Pitzer
Scott,
The SP and C&EI cars are of the same design and are both included on
the same AC&F general arrangement drawing. Last year I notified Bill
McClung of Red Caboose about this and sent him a good scan of the C&EI
car along with the painting specs. However, to date I've not seen any
evidence of a C&EI model from RC.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Covered Hoppers

r1ddell <jriddell@...>
 

The CPR built one steel covered hopper for grain in 1925. It had four
bottom outlets. 75 ton capacity. 41' IL. Original number was 240000.
renumbered to 249000.

John Riddell

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@m...>
wrote:

Still, if you want something more conventional, Bettendorf built
twin hoppers with roofs (and roof hatches) to carry sand for the
National Plate Glass Co. in 1925. This was a "cross hopper," as we say
on the Santa Fe, but otherwise looked very much like the "standard"
covered hoppers developed in the late 1930s. The Bettendorf car is
shown in the 1931 Car Cyc.



Re: Digest Number 2425 - Wood decks

Michael Watnoski
 

Greetings,

It was my understanding that flat car decks fail mainly from
abuse. Creosote and other treatments are typically used to
prevent damage from insects and rot. Unlike railroad ties, there
wood is not left setting in contact with the ground and
moisture. Decks also must be able to be repaired by any railroad
using standard lumber. I would suspect that this would preclude
use of exotic materials in other than experimental applications.

Michael


Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Larry;
This is great news. We have needed a good insulated tank for many
years.

By chance, will any of those tanks come with a dome platform? Are there
plans to pursue any other tank variations, or is this a one-shot deal?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Larry Grubb
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Proto 2000 tank car

FYI,
We expect to ship the kits (2 road numbers per paint scheme) in December
2005 and 2 more road numbers for each paint scheme as RTR in March 2006.
The underframe will be the same as our previous Type 21 tank cars, with
AB brakes. The drawing on page 223 and the bottom of page 222 of the
Kominski Tank Cars book (Not the Kominski AC&F book) is accurate as to
the design except the K brakes, but be aware that this drawing is to
scale for the 8,000 gallon version, we will be doing the 10,000 gallon
version. The correct dimensions for the 10,000 gallon version are listed
in the table in the center of the drawing. Please also note that most of
the tank dimensions are inside dimensions of the tank, not outside
dimensions of the tank with insulation & jacketing. Tooling has begun
and we expect to have first shots by June 1. Paint schemes and number
series will be:
TCX 9350-9389 Aluminum tank/ Black underframe, black billboard "TEXACO"
SDRX 26100-26199 Black tank & underframe,aluminum billboard "SINCLAIR"
MPCX (late 50's-early 60's) Black tank & underframe, white reporting
marks
GATX 37100-37449 Black tank & underframe, white reporting marks
MPCX 1500-1649 (Post WWII) White tank/ black underframe, black reporting
marks
EORX 1129-1149 Black tank & underframe, white Cities Service trefoil
logo
UNDEC Black tank & underframe

I'll post photos as the parts become available.

Larry Grubb,
Life-Like Products

CASO <caso@canadasouthern.com> wrote:
Walthers is listing a Life Like Proto 2000 - 10,000 gallon INSULATED
tank
car kit as a future release. Anyone know when this is expected to be
released ?

Some of the cars announced match up to photos in the ACF book.

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@canadasouthern.com
www.canadasouthern.com



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Re: K vs. AB brake assemblies

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

As well as made replacing only the defective component easier during
repairs.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: David Soderblom <drs@stsci.edu>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:25:38 -0400
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] K vs. AB brake assemblies

I'll try to answer the question that was actually asked, which was why
the brakes went from a one-piece assembly to multiple pieces. At a
minimum, the AB reservoir is substantially larger (and thus heavier)
than the K reservoir. A single reservoir+cylinder would then be too
heavy to mount securely and to handle as an assembly. In the
conversion from K to AB, the same mount point could be used for the
cylinder in both cases, and if you think about it there's no point in
attaching the AB valve to either the cylinder (gets in the way of the
piping) or to the reservoir (ditto), so breaking down the brakes into 3
primary subassemblies made sense.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD


K vs. AB brake assemblies

David Soderblom
 

I'll try to answer the question that was actually asked, which was why the brakes went from a one-piece assembly to multiple pieces. At a minimum, the AB reservoir is substantially larger (and thus heavier) than the K reservoir. A single reservoir+cylinder would then be too heavy to mount securely and to handle as an assembly. In the conversion from K to AB, the same mount point could be used for the cylinder in both cases, and if you think about it there's no point in attaching the AB valve to either the cylinder (gets in the way of the piping) or to the reservoir (ditto), so breaking down the brakes into 3 primary subassemblies made sense.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD

On 2005, Apr 28, , at 17:41, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:02:37 -0700
From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com>
Subject: Re: K vs. AB

My historical refs have it that AB brakes were required
on all -new- cars in 1933 (don't have a more specific date
but perhaps it was Jan. 1?) and that K brakes were banned
from interchange service on Jan. 1, 1954.



David Soderblom
Astronomer
Operations and Data Management Division
Space Telescope Science Institute
1-410-516-8305


Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Larry Grubb <larry450sl@...>
 

FYI,
We expect to ship the kits (2 road numbers per paint scheme) in December 2005 and 2 more road numbers for each paint scheme as RTR in March 2006. The underframe will be the same as our previous Type 21 tank cars, with AB brakes. The drawing on page 223 and the bottom of page 222 of the Kominski Tank Cars book (Not the Kominski AC&F book) is accurate as to the design except the K brakes, but be aware that this drawing is to scale for the 8,000 gallon version, we will be doing the 10,000 gallon version. The correct dimensions for the 10,000 gallon version are listed in the table in the center of the drawing. Please also note that most of the tank dimensions are inside dimensions of the tank, not outside dimensions of the tank with insulation & jacketing. Tooling has begun and we expect to have first shots by June 1. Paint schemes and number series will be:
TCX 9350-9389 Aluminum tank/ Black underframe, black billboard "TEXACO"
SDRX 26100-26199 Black tank & underframe,aluminum billboard "SINCLAIR"
MPCX (late 50's-early 60's) Black tank & underframe, white reporting marks
GATX 37100-37449 Black tank & underframe, white reporting marks
MPCX 1500-1649 (Post WWII) White tank/ black underframe, black reporting marks
EORX 1129-1149 Black tank & underframe, white Cities Service trefoil logo
UNDEC Black tank & underframe

I'll post photos as the parts become available.

Larry Grubb,
Life-Like Products

CASO <caso@canadasouthern.com> wrote:
Walthers is listing a Life Like Proto 2000 - 10,000 gallon INSULATED tank
car kit as a future release. Anyone know when this is expected to be
released ?

Some of the cars announced match up to photos in the ACF book.

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@canadasouthern.com
www.canadasouthern.com



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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http://mail.yahoo.com


F-70-7-- possible stand-in for C&EI?

Scott Pitzer
 

In Classic Freight Cars Volume 6 by Maywald (I almost wrote "Henderson") there's C&EI 70-ton flat 42088 and the very similar looking SP 562781. Similar in having 16 stake pockets, with close spacing for the two nearest each end.
Is the C&EI car in the ballpark? I suppose it depends on what league you're playing in. (And I'm taking a chance on whether it was built by the end of our era.)

Scott Pitzer


Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.

Tom or Gail Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Jerry Glow:
?? Do you mean Martin's "western swing" to California? Pasadena is
close enough (actually usually in Monrovia) but I thought it was
normally in the fall or early winter months. It's been 5 years since I
lived in Calif. I want to be able to alert friends to look for things
for me.
No, the reference is to the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society's annual convention, in Pasadena this year in late June. Martin does indeed make an annual March left coast swing but this year moved the LA-area meet from Monrovia to Buena Park. A good time was had by all.

Tom Madden


Re: GE Mazda Lamps - Totally and Thoroughly Off-Topic

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

I worked for GE for 11 years, although not in the light bulb business. I
did get to visit a light bulb plant once when planning a computer system for
them and they were happy to give me a tour and description of the process.
The covered hoppers were used to transport the glass bulbs after they had
been blown but before they were used to make an electric light bulb. They
just poured the fragile glass bulb into the hoppers and dumped them out the
bottom. Yes, they broke a LOT of them, but was cheaper to just sweep up the
broken glass and ship it back to the glass blower (presumably in the same
covered hopper) than to try to package each bulb to minimize breakage.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Beckert, Shawn
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:50 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] GE Mazda Lamps - Totally and Thoroughly Off-Topic

Guys,

Ever wonder why those ACF black hoppers had "GE Mazda Lamps"
painted on them? Me neither, but I looked up the history of them anyway.
Them there little bulbs have been around awhile:

http://www.oldchristmaslights.com/the_mazda_lamp_story.htm

On more of an STMFC slant, I assume those hoppers were hauling clean sand
from somewhere to be blown into little bitty bulbs.

Just a guess...

Shawn Beckert


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Re: Proto 2000 tank car

jerryglow2
 

Which ACF book are you referring to? I assumed Kaminski's one by
Signature Press but that page number puts it in the gondola section in
mine.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cf5250" <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

Sinclair SDRX #26148 is a correct number for a 10,000 gallon
insulated tank car, so it looks like you're right! There is a
drawing on page 223 of the ACF book of a 10k Type 21 insulated
tank. I am guessing that is what Proto2000 will do to save on
tooling.


Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.

jerryglow2
 

?? Do you mean Martin's "western swing" to California? Pasadena is
close enough (actually usually in Monrovia) but I thought it was
normally in the fall or early winter months. It's been 5 years since I
lived in Calif. I want to be able to alert friends to look for things
for me.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@h...>
wrote:
Sunshine will have some of the stock car kits at Pasadena this
summer.


Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

you will be buying the pieces you returned back because you are gonna want
some Sk-R's I promise<
IM does not want the return pieces. I called before I had examined the
kits carefully and Sara told me that the air lines were also missing and she
would send them for all my kits. This type of service can't be beat.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Stripping ERTL paint and NYC-road paint color

Michael Watnoski
 

Hi Eric,

Free State Systems
P. O. Box 1334
Hunt Valley, MD 21030-6334

e-mail freestatesystems1@comcast.net

Carmer cut levers are part number 8053, 9 pair per pack, $20 per
pack, postpaid.

Michael



eabracher@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 4/28/05 1:01:00 PM, b.hom@worldnet.att.net writes:

(available in photoetched brass from Free State Systems).
who might they be? Address?

eric





Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Covered Hoppers

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@s...> wrote:

On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 01:38 PM, Jim Betz wrote:

1) When were the first covered hoppers and what service
were they in?
I know they first started showing up on the GN in
'48 and were in cement service. Grain hoppers started
showing up fairly soon after.

2) Does anybody have any pics of the "GE LAMPS" cars in
service? (Black cars with white lettering built by
ACF in 10-46 if you can trust the markings on the Kato
cars.)
Jim,
The earliest photo I've come across of a covered hopper is an AC&F
builder's photo of ABBA 1000, for Anheuser-Busch in December 1911.
Covered hoppers started to become more commonplace during the early to
mid-1930s with the advent of some standard designs. Carbon black
covered hoppers were being built as early as 1933. Series ILDX 313-325
was built in 1946 with the builder's photo of 318 being 10-46. There's
an in-service photo of ILDX 338, built 2-49, available from Richard
Burg. The car had recently been repainted Nov. 1959 and the new paint
is virtually spotless.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Another early candidate is the National Plate Glass Company covered
hoppers built in 1925 for hauling silica sand.

The B&O begin converting Class N-13 hoppers into covered hoppers in
1932 with the last group being completed in 1936. The single prototype
wagon-top covered hopper, the Class N-31, was built in 1935. The B&O
cars were used to haul bulk cement.

Bob Witt


Re: Covered Hoppers

Gene Deimling <gene48@...>
 

Greeville Car Company built fifty 50-ton cars for the Erie in July
1934. The B&O had cars (N31 class) in 1935, the PRR built the H30
in 1935 as well. N&W built cars in 1935. There were a number of
roads using them in the East but few early examples in the West
based upon a quick check of my files.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jim Betz <jimbetz@j...> wrote:
1) When were the first covered hoppers and what service
were they in?
I know they first started showing up on the GN in
'48 and were in cement service. Grain hoppers started
showing up fairly soon after.

2) Does anybody have any pics of the "GE LAMPS" cars in
service? (Black cars with white lettering built by
ACF in 10-46 if you can trust the markings on the Kato
cars.)


Re: Digest Number 2425 - Wood decks

Greg Martin
 

Mal Houck writes:

Railway Age carried a number of ads, in this era, touting "Wolmanized"
lumber for open cars. This is what we now know as "Pressure Treated" lumber, for
outdoor use. That weathers to a very pale gray, in time, but the preservative
qualities remain.



"Wolmanized®" is trade name for Wolman® salts. Wolman® salts are composed of
a pressured treated chemical by the industry name of CCA or Chromate Copper
Arsenate, (composed of oxides of Chromate, Arsenic, Copper in that order).
What it does is creates a non-food base for insect and fungi. The oxidation
process turns the wood green from the copper over a brief period of time as the
copper leaches and oxidizes. It also lowers the design values of woods, thus
it doesn't take the abuse. It is strictly designed for softwoods NOT
HARDWOODS and is treated to differing retention values. If your wood turns gray not
green if is likely not treat to a very heavy retention. It can be tinted
usually in a reddish-wood like wood tone color, but it will turn green in time.

I have seen some flatcar decks treated with CCA and it should be noted that
CCA is the least expensive of the treating processes(sans Creosote). I have
also seen some decks treated with DOW-PENTA® in dark oil, which turns dark
brown but by and large most decks that are treated are treated with Creosote. The
Koppers Company, Inc has always had a strong interaction with the Railroads
(think coke, coal tar, and early forms of styrene plastics) with regard to
treated products, probably more so than Wolman®.

Greg Martin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.

charles slater
 

Sunshine will have some of the stock car kits at Pasadena this summer.

From: "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@mrmag.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] IM AT&SF stock car kits.
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:26:08 -0500

Hi Paul,

Yes, Richard H. is right about the InterMountain sides being appropriate only for single-deck cars. It might be possible to modify them for the double-deck classes, by removing some slats and adding new ones, but I'm not planning to try it any time soon. I still have Sunshine kits to build for those.

On the other hand, it's easy to remove the mount for the short grab iron from the end without the toe holes - I did one car's ends last night - and then all you need to do is drill a new hole in the diagonal post for the longer grab. I'll probably add N-B-W castings too for the grab-iron bolts. Use a staff hand brake and that takes care of the Sk-R.

On the Sk-T and and U, note that the T has the short grab (Ellington page 33) and the U has the long one (Ellington page 35). There are also differences in the end doors, but the kit has both kinds so that's not a problem.

As for that model lettered as an Sk-R in the Warbonnet, I know Richard well enough, I think, to believe he'd tell us to follow prototype photos in preference to model photos. I won't say his car is wrong - he has quite a photo collection, and the Santa Fe was certainly capable of retrofitting an Sk-R to resemble a later car. However, Frank Ellington's book has photos of Sk-Rs taken in the '60s that still show no toe holes and long grabs.

So long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@mrmag.com




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