Date   

Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Eric Petersson says:



I think you're missing Garrett's point. We prototype junkies tend to
buy these things by the dozen and then when we have what we need we
stop.

The vesties buy tend to buy the pretty colored one at a time.

So more of the black ones get sold to dealers up front. The colored
ones sell but over time. So the maufacturer ends up discounting them
to get rid of them.
Time is, of course, money.


I bet if you did a pretty colored car of the month club, well, maybe
not by that name, the great vestie rabble would go and subscribe to
it with abandon.
Perhaps. Buying the single car as usual I imagine. But...it's not really relevent to speculate on what might happen when data exists with regard to what DID happen. A manufacturer has to develop marketing strategies based on known results as much as possible.

Mike Brock


Re: ERIE 78246

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Andy Carlson asked:
"Tim O'Connor on the baby boomer site posted a link to a photo
collection which had, among other gems, this Erie boxcar 78246. Can
anyone supply us with some info on this car?"
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90346

Thanks to Bob Webber for sharing these photos!

Erie 78000-78499, 500 1937 AAR boxcars built June 1936 by ACF. Buckeye
ends; Viking roof. More specifics at
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

Sunshine 18.1 (noted as "close-out" on Jim Hayes' list dated 1/21/2004)
models this car.


Ben Hom


ERIE 78246

Andy Carlson
 

Tim O Connor on the baby boomer site posted a link to
a photo collection which had, among other gems, this
Erie boxcar 78246. Can anyone supply us with some info
on this car?

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90346


Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: F-70-7-- possible stand-in for C&EI?

Scott Seders
 

Ed Hawkins wrote

Scott,
The SP and C&EI cars are of the same design and are both included on the same AC&F general arrangement drawing. Last year I notified Bill McClung of Red Caboose about this and sent him a good scan of the C&EI car along with the painting specs. However, to date I've not seen any evidence of a C&EI model from RC.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Ed:

What other roads had cars of this type?

Thanks,
Scott Seders


Re: Flat car decks

jerryglow2
 

I'd use a contact cement like Goo in spots where it won't ooze out
giving you time for positioning. Then use ACC along the edges or where
necessary. I would do most of the deck weatering then weather the
whole model once assembled.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Etheredge" <ceth512@e...> wrote:
I've enjoyed the posts concerning decks of flats and the weathering
of
the same.
I've acquired several RC SP/TNO flats with wooden decks. The
question
I have is what is the best adhesive to use to glue them to the
body?
It seems to me that any CA would set too quick to get the exact
placement needed. Goo is messy. What are your recomendations?
Also, I plan on weathering the decks before attaching them. Is this
the best way? Thanks

Charles Etheredge
Modeling the TNO in the 40's


Re: Flat car decks

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I will leave the adhesive question to others, finding it a sticky question, personally . . .

But, as to weathering . . .

When faced with this sort of situation, where there are two separate parts that can be painted/weathered separately, and
there are different weathering characteristics due to the different materials, I would do as you suggest, Charles, and
weather the decks before attaching them to the car. THEN, I'd work to integrate the deck and car with weathering, dirt
splashing on the underside, etc, so as to make the two parts look like they've lived together for quite some time . . .

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Charles Etheredge
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:08 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Flat car decks

I've enjoyed the posts concerning decks of flats and the
weathering of the same.
I've acquired several RC SP/TNO flats with wooden decks. The
question I have is what is the best adhesive to use to glue
them to the body?
It seems to me that any CA would set too quick to get the exact
placement needed. Goo is messy. What are your recomendations?
Also, I plan on weathering the decks before attaching them. Is this
the best way? Thanks

Charles Etheredge
Modeling the TNO in the 40's





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Flat car decks

Charles Etheredge
 

I've enjoyed the posts concerning decks of flats and the weathering
of
the same.
I've acquired several RC SP/TNO flats with wooden decks. The
question
I have is what is the best adhesive to use to glue them to the body?
It seems to me that any CA would set too quick to get the exact
placement needed. Goo is messy. What are your recomendations?
Also, I plan on weathering the decks before attaching them. Is this
the best way? Thanks

Charles Etheredge
Modeling the TNO in the 40's


Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Eric
 

I think you're missing Garrett's point. We prototype junkies tend to
buy these things by the dozen and then when we have what we need we
stop.

The vesties buy tend to buy the pretty colored one at a time.

So more of the black ones get sold to dealers up front. The colored
ones sell but over time. So the maufacturer ends up discounting them
to get rid of them.

I bet if you did a pretty colored car of the month club, well, maybe
not by that name, the great vestie rabble would go and subscribe to
it with abandon.

Eric Petersson


Tony Thompson wrote:


"Well, I understand this point, but Larry Grubb (who actually is
in the business) says you're wrong,"



Garrett W. Rea wrote:
This was my point to the above: While we all would be hot for any
little varriations and need about 500 black tank cars to every one
in
some non-black color, to the general market, they will have little
appeal.


Re: Erie Covered Hoppers (was Covered Hoppers)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Behalf Of Jerry Dziedzic
Subject: [STMFC] Erie Covered Hoppers (was Covered Hoppers)


Schuyler, you got your ears on? Anything you can add to this?
Yes, I'm here, and I have to say this is a question I've been asking for years. Right now, I don't know.

SGL


'05 St. Louis RPM Meet Update

golden1014
 

Guys,

Here's a quick update on the progress of planning for
the upcoming 2005 St. Louis RPM Meet.

I negotiated for more space today because I've had
great response from vendors and historical societies.
We're looking at about 90-100 tables for vendors, HSs
and attendees model displays. We have about 35 tables
confirmed for spectacular vendors and HSs, including
Westerfield, Bob's Photos, Speedwitch, Dan Kohlberg's
ICG Decals, Badger, AMB, Joe Collias Photos, Rails
Unlimited, Q Connection, Railway Classics, a few local
hobby shops, the TRRA Society (Finally--with a
whopping ten tables!), MP, Soo, C&NW, and possible
the IT and others. Confirmed clinicians include Ted
Culotta, John & Dan Kohlberg, Ben Hom, Stu Thayer and
John Welther, Ed DeRouin, and Ed Hawkins. I'm also
hoping that Chris Theis will bring 10-15 operational
FreeMo modules.

Here's the "official" stuff on the meet in case you
missed it last time:

The 2nd Annual St. Louis Railroad Prototype Modeler's
Meet will be held at the Gateway Convention Center,
One Gateway Center, Collinsville, IL 62234, on
Saturday, August 20th, 2005. Time: 9:00 AM to 10:00
PM. We have a 5500 sq. ft. room for clinics, FreeMo
modules, model displays, demonstrations, vendors,
historical society presentations, and other events.
Tables for historical societies and attendee model
displays are free. There is a $6.00 fee for vendor
tables, although vendor participation is by invitation
only. Admission for this one-day event is $10.00.

My goal with the RPM meet is simple: Arrange a
low-cost, high-quality prototype modeler's meet for
the St. Louis area where modelers can meet and
exchange ideas. Please contact me at your convenience
and let me know if you will consider attending. You
may contact here at Golden1014@yahoo.com. My home
phone is (618) 624-8033 and I can usually be reached
there after 6:00 PM weekdays.

The flyer will be published next week--I'll be sure to
send them around and have them posted on all the big
internet lists. Thanks so far for your overwhelming
support!

John




John Golden
O'Fallon, IL
Many new updates on my PBase site (22 Feb 05): http://www.pbase.com/golden1014


Re: New Tank Cars in Resin

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Garrett Rea asks:


Mike, do you have a website or the like where info and/or photos will
be posted? I will not be able to attend those meetings, but do have
an interest in the cars.
SC&F and I will provide updates as these cars are developed and the cars will be available through the mail when produced. SC&F does have a website and information regarding these cars will be placed in it in the future.

Mike Brock


Erie Covered Hoppers (was Covered Hoppers)

Jerry Dziedzic
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Deimling" <gene48@c...> wrote:

Greenville Car Company built fifty 50-ton cars for the Erie in
July
1934.
Indeed, and these cars are shown in the 1940 Cyc. The description
says they were for cement service. This makes me very curious.
Erie certainly did not serve any cement mills in the Lehigh District
of eastern Pennsylvania. I don't think Erie served any cement mills
elsewhere, but I'm happy to be corrected on this.

So, why would Erie order covered hoppers? My theory: zinc ore
service from NJ Zinc mines in Ogdensburg and Franklin, NJ to its
smelter in Palmerton, PA. Erie served the mines via its then (in
1934) subsidiary NYS&W. There's photo evidence of the cars in
service there.

Schuyler, you got your ears on? Anything you can add to this?


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: Covered Hoppers

Jerry Dziedzic
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:

The first conversions of existing coal hoppers by railroads (PRR
and
DL&W) were in 1931, according to Jerry Dziedzic's excellent
research on
the cement industry.
Clarifying this will make me more comfortable. My research was on
covered hoppers specifically designed for cement service. I have
yet to find any common carrier equipment earlier than these PRR and
DL&W examples. However, there is an earlier example in private
owner cars built for Hercules Portland Cement sometime during the
20's. These cars incorporated features described in the Morris Kind
patents of 1929 and 1931. (Morris Kind was President of Hercules at
that time.)

As to the earliest covered hoppers, the Anheuser Busch malt car
could be the winner.

However, L&HR and CNJ operated covered hoppers in zinc ore service
between Franklin, NJ and Palmerton, PA. Many of these cars predate
Anheuser Busch, with photo evidence of build dates in 1901 and 1906.

They were built as typical open top ore cars, and later roofed by
their owners. In his L&HR series published by Carstens, Ed Crist
explained that they were roofed to keep the ore dry. There's
also a
story that the cars were roofed to contain losses from the ore
literally blowing out of the cars enroute to Palmerton. I don't
know when the roofing took place. It's possible that this
predates
A-B.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

I believe the Sk-R cars were built with the narrow end grab iron. Check out these photos-

#50771, page 29 in the Santa Fe stock car book. Photo from 1935, narrow end grab.

#50841, page 15 in the August 2004 issue of Railmodel Journal. Photo from 1959, narrow end grab.

And several Sk-R photos in the stock car book with the wide end grabs--notice the bolt holes in the end boards where the wood block that supported the narrow grabiron
used to be. I think these photos are all post 1958.

So when did Santa Fe start replacing the end grab? And is it safe to assume that other classes might have been modified as well?

Also, when did the end doors start getting replaced?

My IM kit with AB brakes came with the wrong ends (of course). But I'm happy with it as I'll do a Sk-T. I'll get the proper narrow grab iron, and cutting toe holes and gluing on the Ajax stuff should be no problem.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: charles slater
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] IM AT&SF stock car kits.


That's correct the kits are as follows;
The K brake car (no toe holes and narrow grab) is the Sk-Q car, but with the
wrong doors, and the three upper side boards are also wrong for any of the
double deck cars. The best thing to do with that kit is make a Sk-R single
deck car by changing the narrow grab iron to a wide one and using the other
door.
The AB brake car, with two toe holes and a wide grab iron, is a class Sk-U
car. You can also do the Sk-T class with this one by simply changing the
wide grab iron to a narrow one. Here is the five car classes that can be
done with these models.
1. Sk-Q double deck car, no toe holes in the ends, narrow end grab iron and
vertical slat double doors, vertical shaft hand brake.
2. Sk-R single deck car, no toe holes in the ends, wide end grab iron,
single door and vertical hand brake.
3. Sk-S double deck car, one toe hole and a small grab iron where the
second toe hole would be, narrow end grab iron, horizontal slat double doors
and Ajax hand brake.
4. Sk-T single deck car, two toe holes, narrow end grab iron, single door
and an Ajax hand brake.
5. Sk-U single deck car, two toe holes, wide end grab iron, single door and
an Ajax hand brake.
Hope this clears this up.
Charlie Slater



>From: cobrapsl@aol.com
>Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
>To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [STMFC] IM AT&SF stock car kits.
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:47:07 EDT
>
>Well Charlie I think I am with you, but if so, I am not sure what, if any,
>prototype car I can build with the kits I have in hand. I have three kits
>from
>Andy that are suppose to be AB brake cars. However, as you describe, the
>ends
>have no toe holes and the end grab is narrow. A trip through the Stock car
>book with these spotting features and I come up Sk-Q ONLY-correct? If
>correct, I
>had arrived at the same conclusion that there are no correct doors included
>in
>the kit to do this car. So someone correct me here, with this combination
>I(no one) can build a correct protype.
>Paul Lyons
>Laguna Niguel, CA
>
>
>
>




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Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.

charles slater
 

No I mean the Santa Fe modeling and Historical Society Convention in June.

From: "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@comcast.net>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IM AT&SF stock car kits.
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:08:35 -0000

?? Do you mean Martin's "western swing" to California? Pasadena is
close enough (actually usually in Monrovia) but I thought it was
normally in the fall or early winter months. It's been 5 years since I
lived in Calif. I want to be able to alert friends to look for things
for me.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@h...>
wrote:
Sunshine will have some of the stock car kits at Pasadena this
summer.




San Diego Railroad Museum

Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
 

Someone asked about the San Diego Railroad Museum that used to be at the
Santa Fe depot. It moved. It is the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum
Association, Inc. and is located, I believe, at 4695 Nebo Drive, La Mesa, CA
91941-5259. The museum itself is at the Campo Railroad Museum, which may
(or may not) be at the same address.

Hope this helps.

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ


Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garrett W. Rea wrote:
This was my point to the above: While we all would be hot for any
little varriations and need about 500 black tank cars to every one in
some non-black color, to the general market, they will have little
appeal.
Well, I understand this point, but Larry Grubb (who actually is in the business) says you're wrong,

Look at yellow Royal Dutch Shell cars. Almost every model
and toy maker in the US and Europe have offered them. Nice, yes, but
for most of us, they have limited use.
Good example. The scheme is bogus. Talk about limited.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: New Tank Cars in Resin

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

http://www.southerncarandfoundry.com/

Don't get us mixed up just because we spell our first names the same<G>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: New Tank Cars in Resin

Garrett W. Rea <Garrett.Rea@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:
Well...I suppose this is as good a time as any to announce two new
tank car
"families" to be produced in resin. Southern Car & Foundry will be
producing
two basic tank car versions of the Standard Tank Car. These will be
a radial
course car...rivets perpendicular to the track...and a multi dome
car. There
will be more than one version of each done. You can expect to see
parts in
90 days and the goal is to have significant parts shown at
Naperville and
cars for sale at Prototype Rails Jan 5-8, 2006.

Mike Brock
Mike, do you have a website or the like where info and/or photos will
be posted? I will not be able to attend those meetings, but do have
an interest in the cars.

Thanks-

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN


Re: Proto 2000 tank car

Garrett W. Rea <Garrett.Rea@...>
 

Hi Larry et al:

The answer to the question of "Why Subway Cars" is that a
distributor put up the tooling money so we did not have to risk ours.
He turned out to be right, and we have sold a ton of them.

Cool. I was wondering why they did not fit in the "six road name
policy".

I am not a Yankee, I am a midwesterner.
Why I put Yankee.... is due to the excellent market for Yankee
items. I am a midwesterner too afterall.

Your statement that black tank cars with simple reporting marks do
not appeal to our customers is incorrect. We sold far more plain-jane
cars than we sold Easter Egg cars, even though we produced more
Easter-egg schemes than we did plain-janes.

Really? Mia Culpa on that one. I have had others that have assisted
with the industry tell me that. For one, I have a small fleet of
black cars here. Now, if we could get some of the guys in Europe to
get away from them, but that is a topic for another list.

"Will undec cars be available? Yes, as I stated in my previous post.
Yes, saw that, my question was longevity due to China production.

"For a long enough time to allow for such a market?"(Part1) That of
course depends totally on how fast they sell through. It is in our
best interest to make as many cars as we can sell, we do not
knowingly produce shortages, we make to order, the same as every
other China manufacturer.

Fully understood on the logistics. There are a lot of parts that you
guys do (gondola ends and brake levers, diesel bits) I would like to
see available as parts sold in baggies actually...but understand why
that does not happen.

"For a long enough time to allow for such a market" (Part 2) One of
the reasons I mentioned the resin mini-kit at this time was in the
hope that it may be possible to introduce the resin kits at or near
the same time we introduce our cars. I think this would be beneficial
to all concerned, us, the resin kit maker, and the customer.

Agreed, and what I posted??? One of the better ideas, allows you to
keep your large runs and give us (modellers) the options we want.

Garret, I have not met you in person so I may be mistaking your
attitude for arrogance when it is in fact good-natured kidding.

I am afraid you mis-read me, or I mis-wrote the post. My whole point
was total agreement with you that you (LifeLike) cannot give us every
option on everything, but the fact that you are willing to help the
smaller guy is something needed in the hobby. Also the fact that you
are willing to do this, discuss this option, and OPENLY post it is a
welcome breath of air.

Not sure where all the negative vibes are coming from?

Heck, I am getting posts from people about the fact that we need
black cars which I stated we do need in my post????

IN fact, this insulated 10K car is one that is much needed for a lot
of industries outsie of petroleum and I am tickled to have it coming.
In fact Larry, if you contact me off list, I have a photo you might
appreciate if you do offer the K brake version of the car.

When I post regarding Life-Like Products, I have an obligation to
stick to facts and leave my personal opinions out of it. I would
appreciate it if you could do the same until we get to know each
other better.

Understood fully. Please contact me off list if you have further
concerns or take this as some sort of stab. It was never intended
that way, and I am not sure how you even took it that way or even as
a joke, but that is the problem with e-mail.

Cordially-

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN

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