Date   

Re: Name That Truck

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tom Olsen wrote:
"I would guess that this is a 2D-F2 50-Ton Capacity Truck, which is
an early version Crown truck, with the Cast Steel Andrews sideframe."

After further review, including an off-list discussion with Brian
Butcher, I agree.


"The 2D-F2 was used under classes FM, GLa, GLb, GLc, GP, GPa, GR,
GRa, GS, GSa, GSc, GSd, GSx, H22, XL, XLa, X23, X24, X25, X25a, X28,
X29. All are 50 Ton cars."

One caveat about the truck classification diagrams - they do a great
job of listing which car classes got what trucks, but they don't tell
you how many cars got which truck. For example, you can't make the
assumption that the 50-ton Crown truck was the most common truck used
under Class X29 (it wasn't) or Class X25 (it was). As always, when
in doubt, model from a prototype photo.

BTW, several PRR truck classification diagrams are available online at
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRFreightCarTrucks.html


Ben Hom


Painting advice request

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Spring finally arrives here in the Great White North and I'm planning
to spend hours in the basement building and painting kits?!

Anyway, I'm about to work on a Sunshine #4.2 Frisco rebuild. The model
represents the cars with the "billboard" paint scheme. The data sheet
and instructions indicate that the ends, roof, doors and side sills
were a dark brown and the sides were a light tan.

Can someone offer up suggested colour matches for recreating this
paint job? I prefer working with Floquil or Scalecoat.

Many Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


bending grabs was Re: Templates for grab irons.

jerryglow2
 

Years ago when P2K came out with their Greenville gondola, the
infamous (?) Terry Wiegman engraved a pair of duckbill pliers to
bend the drop after making the basic U shape in a simple flat piece
of stock with a hole the proper distance from the edge. Barring
that, anothr friend simply ACCed a stop of styrene on the face of a
pair of pliers to do the same thing.
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/files/pliers.jpg

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@c...>
wrote:
Steve,

Check out one of the first installments of Ted Culotta's Essential
Freight
Cars series in RMC. In one of the early articles, Ted shows how
to do just
what you want.

Basically, he takes a piece of scribed siding and cuts a triangle
out it,
with one leg of it at 90 degrees. Of course, the bottom is wide
and tapers
to a point, or near point, at the top. You use this to make your
initial
bends to form a straight grab iron.

He then has another gizmo made from styrene that you place the
grab into and
bend the legs over to make your drop grab.

I've tried it and it works pretty nifty. Good luck.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Fuchs" <fuchst900@y...>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Templates for grab irons.


Does anyone know of any templates for grab spacing. I want to
do a
Burlington HC1,the earliest of which had drop grabs. The
problem is
that I feel that my skill level might make the project results
look
worse than the straight grabs ladders I have applying. There are
templates for the brass "cab shades" for diesels that have the
holes
predrilled so proper spacing is assured. Thanks, Steve Fuchs






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Strange car actions

Jim King <jimking3@...>
 

While it may seem far fetched to hear of cars rocking off the track,
etc., I've seen 2 sets of photos from an NS car inspector of 2 "almost"
derailments, 1 in Ohio, 1 just west of here on the Tennessee side of the
S-line (west of Asheville, NC). Both incidents were on loaded unit coal
trains.

The Ohio set of pictures showed a truck that disintegrated somewhere on
the line leaving ONLY 1 axle/wheelset to support the car. The remaining
front axle had been trapped on the front side of the bolster and kept
the car from derailing. The truck frames were found in 2 separate
places along the line, along with various other parts, including a
broken axle and wheelsets scattered along the ROW. The remaining axle
ran so long under the car that it ground a pocket into the bolster the
same diameter as the axle. Reportedly, the car traveled this way for at
least 2 miles and the air hoses were never separated. A passing roll by
inspection found the problem.

The other incident happened earlier this year on a unit train between
Asheville and the TN border. The rear truck on a hopper somehow flipped
completely over and was riding upside down, jammed under the couplers.
The tightlock couplers didn't separate, nor did the air hoses, but all
inspectors figured that both cars raised up enough to allow the truck to
flip over and came back down . on the rails and without separating
anything to cause the car to go into emergency. A recent crossing
paving job finally caused the cars to go into emergency .. after the
train had traveled at least 3 miles!

If I hadn't seen pix of each "almost" derailments, I wouldn't have
believed it. But pictures don't lie and these were shot by car
department investigators at the scene before cleanup started. Where's
Ripley when you need him????

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.
http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/

All messages scanned by Norton anti-virus software.


Re: Templates for grab irons.

jerryglow2
 

Along with Andy Miller's suggestion of the Tichy grabs and template,
you could lay out the pattern on almost any graphics program and print
it out. Tape or positionable glue it to the model and use a sharp
scriber to mark the locations. You could even do a 2nd set of marks to
use to locate NBWs

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Fuchs" <fuchst900@y...> wrote:
Does anyone know of any templates for grab spacing. I want to do a
Burlington HC1,the earliest of which had drop grabs. The problem is
that I feel that my skill level might make the project results look
worse than the straight grabs ladders I have applying. There are
templates for the brass "cab shades" for diesels that have the holes
predrilled so proper spacing is assured. Thanks, Steve Fuchs


Re: Name That Truck

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

All right, Richard raises an interesting question. Why the name change.
Was their a difference between the "Andrews" and the "Crown" truck? The
sideframes appear to have a different shape.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:33 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Name That Truck

On May 5, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Bill Lane wrote:

I just got a few builders photos of this PRR truck, assembled and some
without the journal boxes.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR_Truck_Side.jpg Can anyone
identify the PRR class for it? It resembles the trucks for the H21a.
It clearly has 4-21-14 cast in the sideframe and Altoona cast in the
right wheel. Note the ribbed back wheels as well.
Bill, I can't give you the PRR class designation for it, though others on
the list probably can. However, it is a 70 ton Andrews truck which the
Pennsy (apparently unwilling to use the terminology employed by everyone
else in the RR industry) called a Crown truck.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Templates for grab irons.

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Tichy makes very inexpensive scale grab irons in 18" and 24" lengths and
with and with or without the drop. All their kits come with a hole drilling
template which I believe is also sold separately. If not, buy one of their
R-40-4 kits and have fun!

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steve Fuchs
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:39 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Templates for grab irons.

Does anyone know of any templates for grab spacing. I want to do a
Burlington HC1,the earliest of which had drop grabs. The problem is that I
feel that my skill level might make the project results look worse than the
straight grabs ladders I have applying. There are templates for the brass
"cab shades" for diesels that have the holes predrilled so proper spacing is
assured. Thanks, Steve Fuchs




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Re: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

Dave Bayless
 

And I have heard that exact story at least 4 other times in different
places and on different railroads. I think it is just one of those old
head stories that gets passed from railroader to railroader.
Dave B.

Dave Bayless, UP/SP Engineer
Denver, Northwestern and Pacific RR
(The Mountain Road)
Design and Operations Dept, Auburn, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Vlk
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 4:41 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

Somewheres I have a Chicago Tribune clipping about an even more unusual
incident on the Chicago Great Western....
The story relates that the first car out of Aurora one foggy morning on
the
Chicago, Aurora & Elgin came to a screeching halt as it approached the
Chicago Great Western overpass.... to avoid hitting a boxcar sitting on
the
CA&E track!
Seems that sometime during the night a CGW freight had stopped when the
train went into emergency. The crew walked the train and found a
disconnected airhose in the middle of the train. They reconnected it
and
finished the run into Chicago. It wasn't until the CA&E reported the
car on
the tracks to them that they figured out what really happened..... the
boxcar had derailed and jumped cleanly off the tracks, parting the
airhoses
and uncoupling the couplers without damaging either. In the dark, foggy
night the crew didn't notice the car that had fallen onto the CA&E
tracks
below and nobody thought to count the cars to see if any were missing!!!
Charlie Vlk






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Name That Truck

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

I have PRR Truck Classification diagrams that go back to 1932 and truck
line drawings that date back further, into the middle 'teens. The side
frame classification number, V7703, is at the top of the side frame
over the spring package. Unfortunately, you cannot see the bolster
classification number which is cast into the top of the bolster and is
not visible from the direction of the photo. Looking through the
classifications, this sideframe number is not listed in the listings
that I have.

There is a clue to what type of truck it is by the truck bolster
capacity (F50), which is cast on the truck side frame above and to the
left of the spring package opening. I would guess that this is a 2D-F2
50-Ton Capacity Truck, which is an early version Crown truck, with the
Cast Steel Andrews sideframe. The 2D-F2 was used under classes FM, GLa,
GLb, GLc, GP, GPa, GR, GRa, GS, GSa, GSc, GSd, GSx, H22, XL, XLa, X23,
X24, X25, X25a, X28, X29. All are 50 Ton cars.

Also dating the truck are the chilled cast iron wheels with MCB 1911 and
Altoona Foundry cast into the sides of the wheel. The South Altoona
Foundry made all the castings for the railroad from marker brackets to
to wheels to cylinders to station name signs, etc.. Whatever the
railroad needed, the South Altoona Foundry provided.

Richard was right in that it is a Crown, but a 50-Ton, not the 70-Ton
Crown which is a Class 2E-F2. It would be interesting if someone else on
this list has a set of PRR truck, sideframe and bolster classification
lists that pre-date the one's that I have.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On May 5, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Bill Lane wrote:



I just got a few builders photos of this PRR truck, assembled and some
without the journal boxes.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR_Truck_Side.jpg Can anyone
identify the PRR class for it? It resembles the trucks for the H21a. It
clearly has 4-21-14 cast in the sideframe and Altoona cast in the right
wheel. Note the ribbed back wheels as well.

Bill, I can't give you the PRR class designation for it, though others
on the list probably can. However, it is a 70 ton Andrews truck which
the Pennsy (apparently unwilling to use the terminology employed by
everyone else in the RR industry) called a Crown truck.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links







Soo Line "137xxx" series 40' boxcar question

oliver
 

Does anyone know if any of these cars received 7 panel Superior doors
instead of the usual late Youngstown design; either fresh from the SOO
shops or by the mid 1950s?

Any help(prototype numbers, photos, references) would be appreciated.

Thanks
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, British Columbia


Re: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Not so sure I believe these stories, but OTOH, this supposedly happened on the EL near (or at) the Portage Viaduct over the
Genesee river. This one too recoupled itself, and the mystery was what would have made the airline part like that. Happened
at night, so no problem about why the guys in the buggy didn't see this.

Or so I've heard.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Jones III
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 3:50 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

I have a friend who just retired from the BNSF as an engineer
here on the flat, visibility unlimited Plains Division. At
the end of the steam era, he had a train where a middle car
rocked off the track while the train was braking on a short
down grade. The train recoupled itself (how, I do not
know) and was drug into Clovis, NM, with several cars on the
end braking.
Once the brake line was recoupled, off the train went, only
to be a car short when it got to its destination. The best
part of the story is that the lost car sat along the ROW
(according to him) for several weeks until they figured out
that it was lost! Nobody recalled a derailment along the
tracks, so everyone just figured it to be some farmer's new
"condemned" reefer in the field! You would think somebody in
the house car would have seen a boxcar go rolling off into a field!

Tom Jones III



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Re: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

Peter J. McClosky <pmcclosky@...>
 

Not all Stella Awards are urban legends.

See, http://www.stellaawards.com/

Enough off topic for me,

Peter J. McClosky
=====
ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:


All these Stella awards were supported by the press and TV and radio
stations. B...STELLA I hear you calling.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few...


--
--
Peter J. McClosky
Los Angeles, CA
http://home.earthlink.net/~pmcclosky
pmcclosky@earthlink.net


Re: Covered Hoppers

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I feel the need to correct a previous post of mine. On page 258 of
Rehor's book, it says the NKP's 70-ton covered hoppers were bought in
1937 for "dry bulk" (duh!) The PREVIOUS sentence was about the 100-ton
container gondolas bought in 1939-40, which were for dead-burned
Dolomite. The Dolomite had me thinking Kaolin (well, they both have
a "o" in the word and sound vaguely exotic... Sheesh! I'll go hide for
a while...)
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Payne" <deanpayne@n...> wrote:
The NKP got covered hoppers in 1936, IIRC. I can't seem to locate my
documentation right now, of course, but I think they were in Kaolin
service. These were probably NOT the FIRST, but were the earliest I
know of off hand.
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jim Betz <jimbetz@j...> wrote:
1) When were the first covered hoppers and what service
were they in?
I know they first started showing up on the GN in
'48 and were in cement service. Grain hoppers started
showing up fairly soon after.


Re: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

ljack70117@...
 

On Thursday, May 5, 2005, at 10:42 PM, Jack Wyatt wrote:

Shelf couplers aren't steam era, but the incident with the tank car loosing
a truck and being supported by the shelf coupler for many miles did happen
on the Rock Island. I could dig up a specific date and location from a
Trains Magazine news item. It's there - I just don't have time to dig it out
now. It was reported other places, too, so it wasn't just Trains Magazine
BS. Sounds like the Santa Fe engineer just incorporated it into his
repertoire of stories.

Jack Wyatt
All these Stella awards were supported by the press and TV and radio stations. But they are urban legends. None of them happened. I saw a brake beam come loose and drop down to the rail and the truck it came off of it bounced over it and came down on the ties and broke the air line and "big holed" the train. The train was only going 10 MPH as it was leaving town and crossing over to another track and had to go slow. The one truck was the only one that derailed. If that tank car lost it truck and the shelf coupler held it in place, where did the truck go except under the train some where more cars would start coming off the rails and a real mess would be happening? You would have to have the car jump at leas 6 inches into the air so the truck pin could come out of the truck bolster and before it came back down the truck would have to come out side ways and you would have to have the brake rod come loose and then the tank would have to come down in place on the other coupler which were not touching each other because the 6 inch rise of the car had raised the coupler above the other one.
No I do not believe it unless you can show me the car after and where the truck went out side ways and no brake rods came down when the truck went out.
STELLA I hear you calling.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few
PS If you do not know what the Stella award is it is the woman that put a hot cup of coffee in her lap while driving and burned the H out of herself and blamed McDonald's for it. There has been a lot of other reports of the same kind of court cases but none are true. It is just people trying to convince you to support tort reform.
Enough already. We have been off topic to long and I will not say any more on list. If you want to keep this going answer off list.


Re: Walking off track

Andy Laurent <arlaurent@...>
 

There is a documented case of an empty coal hopper rocking out of a Green Bay & Western train on the Whitehall Division in the 1950s. Same scenario: train went into emergency at night, crew walked the train and found a separation, coupled 'er up and headed out. A following train (in daylight) reported a new hopper car in the ditch! It made the local papers.

Andy L.

__________________________________________________
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Re: Story re: Car Rocking Off Track

C J Wyatt
 

<<All these stories are urban legends. Loosing a truck would not be in
one piece. It would come apart in pieces and these pieces would go
under the trucks behind it and you would have a wreck. Axles do not
seize, the bearing the burn the end of the journal off and things drop
down and start going under other wheels.
As a switchman who was a switch forman on a wrecker in the Emporia KS
yard once and watch as they picked up the pieces I do not believe a
word of any of these stories.
This is not intended to insult anyone. But these stories go hand in
hand with the Stella award court cases that never happened also.
Urban Legends
Thank you
Larry Jackman>>

Shelf couplers aren't steam era, but the incident with the tank car loosing
a truck and being supported by the shelf coupler for many miles did happen
on the Rock Island. I could dig up a specific date and location from a
Trains Magazine news item. It's there - I just don't have time to dig it out
now. It was reported other places, too, so it wasn't just Trains Magazine
BS. Sounds like the Santa Fe engineer just incorporated it into his
repertoire of stories.

Jack Wyatt


Re: Templates for grab irons.

Jack Burgess
 

Being a "tool freak", I couldn't help but to purchase one of these tools
too. They are very well made.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Templates for grab irons.

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On May 5, 2005, at 5:59 PM, cobrapsl@aol.com wrote:

Ted, I almost bought one of the "Grabhandlers" when they first came out, but
could not figure out how to use the spacing since it is inch increments rather
than millimeters(HO). What are you doing to overcomw the scale differences?
I eyeball it until I get the size I need and then use that. I often end up using a length that is "in between" two lengths, meaning I diagonally straddle two different notches to get a length not offered in the various gradations.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: AC&F Welded-Steel Express Reefer Article in RMJ

Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

There are 4 photos in the society Head End book credited to Dean Hale in Dallas, the Stan Kistler collection, W. C. Whittaker collection and one from the John McCall collection.

Brenda and Stan Kistler
E-mail Address(es):
MrATSF@earthlink.net

Hale Dean
E-mail Address(es):
kachinainc@aol.com
Company: RR publisher


______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@swcentral.org
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: George A. Walls
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 5:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AC&F Welded-Steel Express Reefer Article in RMJ


Mike,
I don't think these cars were in use much before about 1948. "Our era"
for me is early 1930's. A little early for these reefers.

Sure could use a picture of a 4000 series ATSF express reefer. Anyone
have one they could sent me a copy of?

Thanks,
George A. Walls

These cars will be very useful for our era.
>
> Mike Brock





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Re: Name That Truck

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill Lane asked:
I just got a few builders photos of this PRR truck, assembled and some
without the journal boxes.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR_Truck_Side.jpg Can anyone
identify the PRR class for it? It resembles the trucks for the H21a.

PRR Class 2E-F2, Crown Cast Steel Truck.


Ben Hom

148461 - 148480 of 189789