Date   

Re: B-50-22 series question

jaley <jaley@...>
 

Will the real B-50-22 please stand up?

The data I have show the REAL B-50-22 as having double-truss spring
plankless trucks, Ajax hand brakes, and wood running boards.

I also see that the B-50-22 has a big "UNION PACIFIC" painted on the side.

:-)

Regards,

-Jeff

On May 15, 9:25pm, stefanelaine wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] B-50-22 series question
Tony,

These cars are listed in the 1993 RMC article as having Klasing
brakes, Apex steel roofwalks and Barber S2 trucks. However, the 1956
freight car roster reprint book published by the SPH&TS lists these as
being equipped with AAR double truss trucks with spring planks (eg:
Accurail truck).

My questions:
1.Which truck is correct? Where some sub groups of the B-50-22s with
the S2 which may not have been listed in the 1956 roster?
2.What are Klasing brakes (I suspect that these are similar to the
Ajax type)?
3. Did all these cars have steel roofwalks?

The P2k cars come with plankless trucks,wood roofwalks and Ajax brakes
as on their A-50-14 series DD cars. Is this combination in any way
correct for either series of cars?
--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: B-50-22 series question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lee A. Gautreaux wrote:
How far will your coverage go? I assume that you will cover all of
the 40 and 50 ton cars. Will you cover any of the early 70 or 100
ton cars?
Yes, a bunch of the 70- and 100-ton cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Lost cars

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Ed

Thanks for this information. I'll try to get a copy of these when they are published.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Lost cars


Related to this subject, plans are in work for a 2-part article on
Burlington's XA auto cars to be published in Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia. The wood-sheathed cars through the XA-14s is planned for
Volume 12 to be followed in Volume 13 with the all-steel XA-15 and
XA-16 cars built 1941 through 1946. Will advise the STMFC as the
completion time for Vol. 12 nears.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Lost cars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, May 15, 2005, at 01:48 PM, Rupert and Maureen wrote:

My first recording of these XA-15's 49500-49674 was 7/45, but there is
no
triangle denoting additions alongside the numbers, so this wasn't the
first
recording.

From: "Ed Hawkins"
The 1/45 ORER does not list 48700-48874.
Ed
Can you check for the 49500-49674 in 1/45 - thanks
Rupert,
The 1/45 ORER lists CB&Q 49500-49674 with a triangle, but ..... for the
number of cars in service. Even though the cars are reported to have
been built in 1944, the ORER for 1/45 doesn't show any of them as being
in service at that time. A CB&Q builder's photo of #49500 has a build
date of 11-44, so the construction of the cars had begun in late 1944.

Related to this subject, plans are in work for a 2-part article on
Burlington's XA auto cars to be published in Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia. The wood-sheathed cars through the XA-14s is planned for
Volume 12 to be followed in Volume 13 with the all-steel XA-15 and
XA-16 cars built 1941 through 1946. Will advise the STMFC as the
completion time for Vol. 12 nears.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Use of black on roofs, ends, doors.

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, May 15, 2005, at 02:46 PM, Scott Pitzer wrote:

d,
Do you mean 40' or 50' C&O PS-1s?  If 40' do you mean the 6' door or
8' door... the white roman lettered ones or the yellow Futura lettered
ones?
Scott Pitzer
Scott,
The C&O cars I was referring to were 50' PS-1s numbered 21000-21499,
built 1956. There's an overhead photo showing a new car in Erie In
Color (page 114).
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: IC 10' boxcars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, May 15, 2005, at 12:04 PM, cobrapsl@aol.com wrote:

Just remember the T&P cars done by Ed Hawkins have the correct resin
doors.
The RC kit doors are not correct.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA
Paul,
This isn't so. The doors used for these kits were the same doors used
in the IMWX kits, having Camel door fixtures. The T&P prototype cars
had Union Duplex fixtures.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: B-50-22 series question

Lee Gautreaux
 

Stefan,

Hey, that is why they make food stamps! Actually, Tony's Vol III is
indeed an incredible resource and answers many questions about SP's
fleet of auto boxes and early flat cars. It is certainly the most
info packed of the series and whets my appetite for the box car
volume.


Volume 3 is apparently in the mail, so that should help with the
automobile cars!(I must say that my wallet is having trouble
keeping
up with your prodigious output;-)
Tony,

How far will your coverage go? I assume that you will cover all of
the 40 and 50 ton cars. Will you cover any of the early 70 or 100
ton cars?

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Re: B-50-22 series question

oliver
 

Tony,
Ah, now I understand. Thanks for clarifiying that! As often happens
with historical data, an omission (in this case based on common
knowledge at the time)can get one in trouble after the fact!

Unfortunately, that does mean that I've got to get an order in to
Plano for those roofwalks, but the trucks and brake won't be correct
in any case regardless of choice for the B-50-22s. It seems that even
with all the nice trucks and brake sets available there still is room
for more.

Volume 3 is apparently in the mail, so that should help with the
automobile cars!(I must say that my wallet is having trouble keeping
up with your prodigious output;-)

Thanks
Stefan


.. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

Stefan Lerché wrote:
These cars are listed in the 1993 RMC article as having Klasing
brakes, Apex steel roofwalks and Barber S2 trucks. However, the 1956
freight car roster reprint book published by the SPH&TS lists these as
being equipped with AAR double truss trucks with spring planks (eg:
Accurail truck).
My questions:
1.Which truck is correct? Where some sub groups of the B-50-22s with
the S2 which may not have been listed in the 1956 roster?
Stefan, the Barber S2 feature is a bolster snubber. It is not a
truck. Many truck makers licensed the Barber feature and included it in
their proprietary trucks. Thus a buyer like SP could specify S2 trucks
and only mean trucks with S2 snubbers included. The B-50-22 class,
however, did not have S2 trucks. This is one of several (minor) errors
in the 1993 RMC articles which will be corrected in the box car volume
of my series, now in progress.
"AAR" likewise refers only to the sideframe pattern in a
general way; individual manufacturers implemented it in somewhat
varying fashion as to appearance (which modelers care about), but the
mechanical specs. were AAR. The trucks for this entire class were AAR
double-truss trucks from American Steel Foundries, and they included
Simplex spring snubbers. The SP order summary does not mention spring
planks, for the very good reason that at that time (1941) the spring
plank was standard. Spring plankless trucks were unusual and would
merit mention.

2.What are Klasing brakes (I suspect that these are similar to the
Ajax type)?
Klasing is a make of handbrake. They are not the same as Ajax.
See any Cyc in the 1937 to 1953 period.

3. Did all these cars have steel roofwalks?
Yes, Apex as you list.

The P2k cars come with plankless trucks,wood roofwalks and Ajax brakes
as on their A-50-14 series DD cars. Is this combination in any way
correct for either series of cars?
See my volume 3: all three features are wrong for this
class. The cars had AAR trucks with spring planks (half Scullin, half
Bettendorf), Apex steel running boards, and Equipco handbrakes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: B-50-22 series question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I wrote:
See my volume 3: all three features are wrong for this class. The
cars had AAR trucks with spring planks (half Scullin, half Bettendorf), Apex steel running boards, and Equipco handbrakes.<<

I should have stated that the features described are for Class A-50-14. But obviously these features are equally wrong for B-50-22. In both cases, of course, they are easily corrected.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: B-50-22 series question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Stefan Lerché wrote:
These cars are listed in the 1993 RMC article as having Klasing
brakes, Apex steel roofwalks and Barber S2 trucks. However, the 1956
freight car roster reprint book published by the SPH&TS lists these as
being equipped with AAR double truss trucks with spring planks (eg:
Accurail truck).
My questions:
1.Which truck is correct? Where some sub groups of the B-50-22s with
the S2 which may not have been listed in the 1956 roster?
Stefan, the Barber S2 feature is a bolster snubber. It is not a
truck. Many truck makers licensed the Barber feature and included it in
their proprietary trucks. Thus a buyer like SP could specify S2 trucks
and only mean trucks with S2 snubbers included. The B-50-22 class,
however, did not have S2 trucks. This is one of several (minor) errors
in the 1993 RMC articles which will be corrected in the box car volume
of my series, now in progress.
"AAR" likewise refers only to the sideframe pattern in a
general way; individual manufacturers implemented it in somewhat
varying fashion as to appearance (which modelers care about), but the
mechanical specs. were AAR. The trucks for this entire class were AAR
double-truss trucks from American Steel Foundries, and they included Simplex spring snubbers. The SP order summary does not mention spring
planks, for the very good reason that at that time (1941) the spring
plank was standard. Spring plankless trucks were unusual and would
merit mention.

2.What are Klasing brakes (I suspect that these are similar to the
Ajax type)?
Klasing is a make of handbrake. They are not the same as Ajax.
See any Cyc in the 1937 to 1953 period.

3. Did all these cars have steel roofwalks?
Yes, Apex as you list.

The P2k cars come with plankless trucks,wood roofwalks and Ajax brakes
as on their A-50-14 series DD cars. Is this combination in any way
correct for either series of cars?
See my volume 3: all three features are wrong for this
class. The cars had AAR trucks with spring planks (half Scullin, half
Bettendorf), Apex steel running boards, and Equipco handbrakes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: IC 10' boxcars

Paul Lyons
 

OK Ed, I am confused. I got a couple of the special run RC T&P car kits,
which included extra resin doors with Union duplex fixtures, from Joe Pennington.
I thought that is how they all came in the Society run you had done. Your help
is appreicated, as one is never to old to learn.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Re: B-50-22 series question

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

It appears that the term "double truss" is often misused and
misunderstood in this hobby. See Richard Hendrickson's article on
freight trucks in RPC. The term refers to the construction of a
stiffener in the lower chord of the sideframe. Accurails "Bettendorf"
truck does not have this feature. Kadeee's "Bettendorf" truck does have
this feature and has always been called a double truss truck. Although
not originally labeled as such (correctly), Kadee is now labeling their
T-section and Vulcan trucks as double truss trucks also, which they are
not.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
stefanelaine
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 4:25 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] B-50-22 series question

Tony,

These cars are listed in the 1993 RMC article as having Klasing
brakes, Apex steel roofwalks and Barber S2 trucks. However, the 1956
freight car roster reprint book published by the SPH&TS lists these as
being equipped with AAR double truss trucks with spring planks (eg:
Accurail truck).

My questions:
1.Which truck is correct? Where some sub groups of the B-50-22s with
the S2 which may not have been listed in the 1956 roster?
2.What are Klasing brakes (I suspect that these are similar to the
Ajax type)?
3. Did all these cars have steel roofwalks?

The P2k cars come with plankless trucks,wood roofwalks and Ajax brakes
as on their A-50-14 series DD cars. Is this combination in any way
correct for either series of cars?

Many thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, British Columbia






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Use of black on roofs, ends, doors.

Scott Pitzer
 

Ed,
Do you mean 40' or 50' C&O PS-1s? If 40' do you mean the 6' door or 8' door... the white roman lettered ones or the yellow Futura lettered ones?
Scott Pitzer
------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: May 12, 2005 5:41 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Use of black on roofs, ends, doors.

I've seen evidence of black car cement applied to seam caps of
PS-1s (C&O PS-1s) and NKP cars built by AC&F and Greenville.


B-50-22 series question

oliver
 

Tony,

These cars are listed in the 1993 RMC article as having Klasing
brakes, Apex steel roofwalks and Barber S2 trucks. However, the 1956
freight car roster reprint book published by the SPH&TS lists these as
being equipped with AAR double truss trucks with spring planks (eg:
Accurail truck).

My questions:
1.Which truck is correct? Where some sub groups of the B-50-22s with
the S2 which may not have been listed in the 1956 roster?
2.What are Klasing brakes (I suspect that these are similar to the
Ajax type)?
3. Did all these cars have steel roofwalks?

The P2k cars come with plankless trucks,wood roofwalks and Ajax brakes
as on their A-50-14 series DD cars. Is this combination in any way
correct for either series of cars?

Many thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, British Columbia


Re: Lost cars

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

"I'm trying to identify a proposed group of CB&Q XA cars #48700-48874 which were shown in the June/July 1944 ORER but no longer listed in June/July 1945"

From: "Tim Gilbert"
I suspect that the CB&Q did not get approval from the War Production Board (or another Government War-time Board) for their construction.

By April 1949, there were 175 cars in CB&Q's #49500-49674 series, but these 50' 6 IL Boxcars had a cubic capacity of 5,170 feet (4,666 feet
with the Evans Loading Racks stored). When did this #49500 series first appear in the ORER?
My first recording of these XA-15's 49500-49674 was 7/45, but there is no triangle denoting additions alongside the numbers, so this wasn't the first recording.


From: "Ed Hawkins"
The 1/45 ORER does not list 48700-48874.
Ed
Can you check for the 49500-49674 in 1/45 - thanks


From "Tony Thompson"
It would be interesting to see when these first were listed
There is the "new additions" triangle alongside the number in 7/44 so I presume that was the first listing

SP had box cars on order in very late 1941 and only part of the order had been delivered by August, 1942. But the entire number series was
carried in the ORER through the war until the fall of 1944, when they apparently gave up on the cars ever being delivered.

At that time, the CB&Q was building its own cars at Havelock and I would have expected the missing cars to have come from that same source (as were the other XA-15's built both before and after this date, so I doubt if it was a supplier problem.

I'm now wondering if the original order for 75 cars was increased to 175. There were already cars numbered 49000-49483 immediately above the proposed group which would have precluded using those for the whole group, so perhaps it was decided to use 49500-674 as represented by the XA-15's built in 1944.

Thanks for your responses

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Re: P2k 8k HPCX tank Car

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Never mind my first question, these cars are still listed in the 1955 ORER.
Can someone check a1958 ORER of me to see if HPCX 706 is still listed?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@net.bluemoon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] P2k 8k HPCX tank Car


Tony, Thanks, I don't have his Tank Car Book, but I do have his AC&F
History
book and I found some diagrams that show my error in thinking. (For
others
that may be interested see page 48, it's a more modern car but the
principle
is the same.)

Unfortunately, a picture of HPCX 1153 on the bottom of page 112 shows a
10,625 gallon, ICC 105-A-300-W, part of a 6 car lot, 1150-1155.

Does anyone know if the 8000 gallon cars continued to be leased by
Hercules
after the arrive of the above mentioned cars in 1952?

I model 1957.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY





Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Digest Number 2457

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 5/15/2005 7:15:20 PM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:

I'm wondering if anyone on the list has seen MP 'Eagle Merchandise' cars in
trains or yards for the above RR's?


Charlie,

There was a photo in I believe Classic Trains a few issues back showing one
of the cars heading east on the B&O out of St. Louis. Where you been? Drop
me a line sometime!

Jerry Michels


Re: P2k 8k HPCX tank Car

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tony, Thanks, I don't have his Tank Car Book, but I do have his AC&F History
book and I found some diagrams that show my error in thinking. (For others
that may be interested see page 48, it's a more modern car but the principle
is the same.)

Unfortunately, a picture of HPCX 1153 on the bottom of page 112 shows a
10,625 gallon, ICC 105-A-300-W, part of a 6 car lot, 1150-1155.

Does anyone know if the 8000 gallon cars continued to be leased by Hercules
after the arrive of the above mentioned cars in 1952?

I model 1957.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


P2k 8k HPCX tank Car

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I picked up a P2k 8000 gallon tank car this past weekend in Cleveland. The
car is HPCX 706 and is lettered for the Hercules Powder Company. I've always
liked the car since I saw a picture of the model years ago. However on
reading the small printing on the tank. I am left to wonder if this kit is
accurate, "Heater Coils 200 lbs." Should this car be insulated and have
heater coils? Will the forthcoming car discussed earlier his month be more
accurate.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: P2k 8k HPCX tank Car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian J Carlson wrote:
I picked up a P2k 8000 gallon tank car this past weekend in Cleveland. The
car is HPCX 706 and is lettered for the Hercules Powder Company. I've always
liked the car since I saw a picture of the model years ago. However on
reading the small printing on the tank. I am left to wonder if this kit is
accurate, "Heater Coils 200 lbs." Should this car be insulated and have
heater coils? Will the forthcoming car discussed earlier his month be more
accurate.
Brian, by no means all cars with heater coils were insulated. See Kaminski's tank car book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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