Sorry I haven't commented on this until now.

Photos of these cars in service are rare.

Chuck Yungkurth had a negative of these cars converted to hoppers. Dan
Beirnacki has a John Long (official Erie photographer) negative of one
of the gons being loaded with the reamins of a corrugated iron
building. My recollection is both prints show cars with diamond
heralds - Chuck's with the older type, Long's with small, modern ones.

I understand Chuck no longer has the Raildata negatives. I think Dan
still does; he's posted a lot of Long photos showing freight cars on
the "fallen flags" web site - Erie is one of the few railroads that
has many steam era freight car photos.

I have both prints but no filing system.

Ed

Dear Jon
There are other list members better-qualified to address the question, but I'll jump in anyway. Although the Atlas USRA cars (which is what I assume you mean) have a good general appearance, the quality of detail is not up to what most of the members of this list would find acceptable (although I have ten or twelve of them, but my entitlement to be on the list is shaky, so that is not really an endorsement). The underframes are expecially a problem.
Depending on how fastidious you are, I'd suggest looking at the Chooch resin cars (unfortunately they are not inexpensive) and the San Juan styrene kits, which are excellent but much more limited in prototype offerings.
Jace Kahn

I've been following Ted's articles in RMC which are the best primer on steam
era freight cars I have ever found. I'm learning a lot. Does anyone have any
ideas about how accurate the Atlas O scale single and double sheathed cars
are? I'm eager to try to detail some of these to represent particular road - parts
of course in O scale may be a problem - sorting out the terrible door runners
may make a lot of difference. But has anyone tried working on these ? What
sort of basis do they provide?
Jon Marcus.

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee� Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Thanks, Al. I'll check it out (I have a duplicate copy still in wrapper, since the one I normally used is still in Fairbanks). I am also looking forward to reading a message from Chuck Yungkurth ("Mr Steam-Era Fount-of-Wisdom for Eastern Railroading"--and I mean that as a compliment). I get list messages in digest form.
JGGK

This isn't a picture *as a gondola*, but in Ed Crist's "Erie
Memories" (p 102) there's a view of car (H)44520 *as rebuilt to a
quad hopper*, in company (ash? coal?) service. One end is hidden by
an S-1 Berkshire, in which the photographer for some reason was
interested. :-) But most of the car's lettering shows, including the
diamond.

Al Brown
Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "Justin Kahn" <harumd@h...> wrote:

I'm going ahead in lettering the International one; the RailCraft

one can

sit in its box a year or two more. I'm coming up empty so far on

finding

any decals for this in O scale. I'm curious whether it was ever

available

commercially in HO, and whether perhaps there was an HO lettering

set which

could be used as the basis of producing some enlargements. Does

anyone have

a location for views of this class in service? #44000-series as

originally

built with drop-bottom doors; rebuilt in late 1930's with solid

bottoms and

AB brakes, renumbered to #45000.
Jace Kahn

_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

On May 19, 2005, at 6:19 PM, william darnaby wrote:

Ted,

On the kits I built 3 years ago I found the centers of the roof castings
considerably narrower in width than at ends. I trust Martin has corrected
this and yours are ok.

I hadn't noticed that yet, but in looking, my castings have the same issue.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

In preparation for the construction of an SAL B-7 and an AF-2, I found
some things with these cars that are not captured on the Sunshine kits
and are not going to be fun to add. For those who aren't familiar,
these are the SAL round roof prototypes built in the early 1940s.
There are two roof types, one for the box cars and one for the auto
cars. This would probably not be too noticeable or much of an issue,
except for the roof shots that I have been looking at. The B-7 roofs
have single, very narrow, rectangular corrugation in each roof panel
that extend all the way to the roof eaves. The AF-1 and -2 have what
appear to be marginally larger, single corrugations that are confined
to the center two-thirds of the roof (not extending long the curved
portion of the roof and appear to be more peaked in nature. These will
certainly be fun to add (insert facetiousness). If only the roofs were
styrene! I hate gluing large pieces of styrene to resin using ACC. Oh
well. I will document the efforts for others.

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912

Ted,

On the kits I built 3 years ago I found the centers of the roof castings considerably narrower in width than at ends. I trust Martin has corrected this and yours are ok.

Bill Darnaby

In preparation for the construction of an SAL B-7 and an AF-2, I found some things with these cars that are not captured on the Sunshine kits and are not going to be fun to add. For those who aren't familiar, these are the SAL round roof prototypes built in the early 1940s. There are two roof types, one for the box cars and one for the auto cars. This would probably not be too noticeable or much of an issue, except for the roof shots that I have been looking at. The B-7 roofs have single, very narrow, rectangular corrugation in each roof panel that extend all the way to the roof eaves. The AF-1 and -2 have what appear to be marginally larger, single corrugations that are confined to the center two-thirds of the roof (not extending long the curved portion of the roof and appear to be more peaked in nature. These will certainly be fun to add (insert facetiousness). If only the roofs were styrene! I hate gluing large pieces of styrene to resin using ACC. Oh well. I will document the efforts for others.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912

Stefan Lerché wrote:

I defer to others with more knowledge about PFE operations, but I
think it depends on what you mean by "blocks of reefers". You'll find,
that in general solid trains of reefers ie: Salinas Vegetable Blocks
(SVB) were run as extras from Watsonville as needed. However, you
could find "blocks" of reefers making up substantial portions of
regularly scheduled 2nd class trains as well. See the Coast Line,
Western Division etc. books by Signor or pictorial type books for good
photos of both scenarios.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this subject is
covered in the PFE book too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Stefan Lerché wrote:

Could someone direct me to a clear photo of a Chrysler FR 50 high
speed truck that was used on some express boxcars during the 1950s.

As already answered, they are in a Cyc. A good copy of the Cyc
photo is in the PFE book, page 166.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Jim Mischke wrote:

Can you be more specific with the 1900 Railway Age citation?? I have
scoured the railroad journals for Lidgerwood information, and did not
come across this. Found most mentions to be around the 1904 St.
Louis Exposition.

Article is Railway Age, Vol. 30, October 12, 1900, pp. 286-291. Citation and photo reproduction is in my SP Freight Cars, Volume 1.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Howdy folks;

I hope you all won't mind this one-time-only somewhat off-topic
post, although I think it is sort of on topic if you like to harvest
rivets for use in projects. Ed Loizeaux posted the following on the
S-Scale Yahoo! list. I just got off the phone with Mr. Ledger, and
he gave me permission to cross-post this. He has a whole lot of
materials from his Bridgemaster kits that he is getting rid of.
Like, a 1000 sheets of rivet sheets, as described below. And Bridge
lattice, and styrene angles with rivets molded in, and so on. He is
taking it all to a swap meet on Saturday, so you have very limited
time to act. You must call before 5:00 am Saturday Morning (Arizona
time, and of course it might be wise to respect the hour in which
you call).

The .010 material is suitable for HO, the .015 and .020 is probably
better suited for the larger scales. He would love to entertain an
offer for the whole batch; I wish I was in a position to take it
all, I would... I am sending him a check for what I can afford. This
is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, so give him a call; he was very
nice to talk to.

You heard it here third!!!

Best regards;

Jim Harr


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:01:50 -0700
From: "Edward Loizeaux" <Loizeaux@...>
Subject: Bridgemaster Steel Bridge Kits and Rivet Sheets......

Folks....

Several boxes of "stuff" have just been found in the
proverbial "bottomless garage" as follows:

A. Complete S/O plate girder bridge kits, about 13" long with
girders 1-1/2" deep. New unopened. Highly detailed. Cost is $30
plus $5 postage (each kit ordered). Have four and that's all.

B. Rivet Sheets, embossed styrene rivet sheets, 9"x13", each with
about 8,000 rivets in commonly used bridge patterns, .010" and .015"
thick, many imperfections and seconds, a few pretty darn good. Have
1,000 sheets and that's all. $3 per sheet (normally $7).

All of the above is available if you call Don Ledger at 1-480-894-
1678 before Saturday morning. On Saturday, all of Don's stuff will
be at a large model train swap show in Arizona and is expected to
sell out quickly. So this is the last chance. Don found this stuff
while cleaning out his garage this past weekend. Call him now if
interested.

You heard it here first!

Good luck....Ed L.

RMJ Freight Car Models Vol. IIhas many photos of GAEX and GARX cars with
FR-5 trucks Several have clear shots of the trucks. RMJ 3-90 has a shot
of GAEX 100022 with a well lit view of the trucks.

Doug Brown

On May 18, 2005, at 3:52 PM, englishintroy wrote:

Stefan,

I don't have it in front of me, but I believe these trucks would be
illustrated in one of the CBCs of the era. NYC experimented with
Chrysler FR-5 trucks on its Pacemaker box cars in the late 40s, so
they (the trucks) might show up in the '49-51, '53 or '57 CBC.

Jeff is correct. The Chrysler FR-5 trucks were made by Symington-Gould and both a photo and a drawing are included in S-G's ad in the 1953 CBCyc (pp. 977-978).

Richard Hendrickson

Stefan,

I don't have it in front of me, but I believe these trucks would be
illustrated in one of the CBCs of the era. NYC experimented with
Chrysler FR-5 trucks on its Pacemaker box cars in the late 40s, so
they (the trucks) might show up in the '49-51, '53 or '57 CBC.

Jeff English
Troy, New York

--- In STMFC@..., "stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@y...>
wrote:

Sorry, typing too fast...should have been FR-5 trucks.
I'm specifically looking for a view of the snubbers over the

spring group.

thanks
Stefan

--- In STMFC@..., "stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@y...>

wrote:

Could someone direct me to a clear photo of a Chrysler FR 5 high
speed truck that was used on some express boxcars during the

1950s. I

have a couple but they aren't very clear or are too dark to see

the

details.
Any help would be appreciated
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, British Columbia

Paul,
I defer to others with more knowledge about PFE operations, but I
think it depends on what you mean by "blocks of reefers". You'll find,
that in general solid trains of reefers ie: Salinas Vegetable Blocks
(SVB) were run as extras from Watsonville as needed. However, you
could find "blocks" of reefers making up substantial portions of
regularly scheduled 2nd class trains as well. See the Coast Line,
Western Division etc. books by Signor or pictorial type books for good
photos of both scenarios.
regards
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, British Columbia


--- In STMFC@..., Paul Catapano <pc66ot@s...> wrote:

In 1952 ( and earlier) did the SP run it's block's of reefers in

solid trains?

If so did SP give these trains "Time Table" authority or did they

run them as Extras?

If these were Time Tabled trains did SP run them as 2nd class or 1st

class?

Thank you all for your time and any help.

Paul Catapano


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, typing too fast...should have been FR-5 trucks.
I'm specifically looking for a view of the snubbers over the spring group.
thanks
Stefan

Could someone direct me to a clear photo of a Chrysler FR 50 high
speed truck that was used on some express boxcars during the 1950s. I
have a couple but they aren't very clear or are too dark to see the
details.
Any help would be appreciated
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, British Columbia

In 1952 ( and earlier) did the SP run it's block's of reefers in solid trains?

If so did SP give these trains "Time Table" authority or did they run them as Extras?

If these were Time Tabled trains did SP run them as 2nd class or 1st class?

Thank you all for your time and any help.

Paul Catapano

Bud Brock asked:

Have acquired a set of Herald King decals #PR-133. Pennzoil.
The detail sheet recommends a black 62' tank car.
Any recommendations for an HO kit to match that description?

I would imagine that a car of that size is probably from the
post-steam era. So, before someone on the list fusses about that,
I would say get an undecorated version of Athearn's 62' "chemical"
tank car if you can find one. The kit won't be exactly correct for
the prototype - in fact I don't think that kit correctly matches
much of anything - but it's as close as you're likely to get.

You might pose the question to the Baby Boomer Freight Car List at
bbfcl@..., where there are some people knowledgable
about 1960's era tank cars.

Shawn Beckert

Ron Dukarm sent the message below to the EL list.

In 1927 the Erie built one of the largest "feeding-in-transit" stock
facilities in the country at East
Buffalo Yard. A 5-page in-depth article appeared in Railway Age in
their May 11, 1929 issue. The article states that its purpose was to
"attract to its lines eastbound livestock business from
the central west via its Niagara Frontier connections." The facility
could handle 100 cars per day.
After it opened, the Erie added a special stock train No. 90 which
left
at 6:30am each day for New York, with a 20 hour transit time. It
consisted generally of 75 to 100 cars and the article notes
that "fill out" cars were sometimes added at East Buffalo Yard.

This train consisted most likely of cars from roads with which the
Erie
interchanged with at East
Buffalo: Nickel Plate, Wabash, Pere Marquett, and CN. Any Erie
trains
coming from Chicago and
points west would probably not "detour" to Buffalo for
"feeding-in-transit" as these services were available at several
yards along the
mainline.

It was probably difficult to find a back-haul commodity for these
cars.
In the 1860's the New York
Central used to haul coal in stock cars to Buffalo and points west.
An
excellent discussion of
stock operations can be found in a Railroad Model Craftsman article
that appeared in January
1993 entitled "The last stand of stock cars in the East". It deals
primarilly with the PRR but has
pictures of two Erie cars and notes that the EL sold their 25 steel
stock cars to the PRR in 1965.

I have a copy of a contract for dead animal removal from East
Buffalo
from 1960 (courtesy Pat
McNight) which states that 75% of the cost is to be paid by the
Nickle
Plate (which seems to indicate that NKP used it 75% of the time).
Several pieces of information seems to indicate the EL got out of
the livestock business about 1965. Does anyone know when they
stopped
moving livestock?

Ronald R. Dukarm
rdukarm@...

Can you be more specific with the 1900 Railway Age citation?? I have
scoured the railroad journals for Lidgerwood information, and did not
come across this. Found most mentions to be around the 1904 St.
Louis Exposition.



--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

Bob Weston wrote:

I'm looking for information on the Lidgerwood Ballast Unloader.

This

car was essentially a steam powered winch set inside a boxcar like
structure. A string of flatcars loaded with ballast would be

coupled

behind the unloader. When the train reached the area to be

ballasted a

scraper blade was pulled by the unloader along the string of flats
pushing the ballast off. This method was also used to unload fill
dirt. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Bob, there was a photo essay on this process in Railway Age

in

1900. Parts of it, with supplemental information, is in Chapter 3

of my

book, "SP Freight Cars, Vol. 1" as well.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history