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MT Flat Cars in a Train
Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Bruce Smith writes:
"Sitting at the crossing, waiting for a CSX freight to go by on my way back from lunch today I was reminded that the prototype has a similar problem, and as a consequence tends to run empties at the end of the train." This issue surfaced rather unpleasantly several yrs ago on the STMFC. Since then, I have been rather curious about the placement of MTs on trains, particularly with regard to flat cars. I have found many cases of obviously MT flat cars on or near the head end. Taking a look at the light weight of flat cars in our period, I note that the UP F-50-11 weighed 47500 lbs MT. UP 40 ft box cars weighed from 36900 to 45600 lbs MT...most in the 42000 area. The UP H-70-1 3 bay hopper had a light weight of 44900 lbs while the HK-50-4 hopper weighed 44800 lbs. The problem, of course, is...if it were desireable to place MT's on the rear, what would one do when the entire train contains MT's...and it did happen and not infrequently. The problem in that case is that the train of MT's might have as much train resistance as one with loads. The first car only feels the tug from its rear, it doesn't know if it's from loads or MT's. Anyhow, I have found numerous cases of MT flats on the head end followed by loaded hopper cars. One of the more interesting shots shows a UP 4-12-2 megotiating two crossovers while pulling a train with a string of MT hoppers tied to the rear of the engine. The engine's crew is stretching out as far as possible to watch the wheels travel through the turnouts and they aren't looking at the cars. When one thinks about it, the real issue of a car staying on the rails with a pull from the front and rear is the center of gravity. A flat car's is quite low...if MT. During the steam era superelevation of track was necessary because of the relatively high center of gravities of steam engines. Diesels, with lower centers of gravity, were able to take curves at higher speeds than were steam engines. I understand that the N&W reduced its super elevations with the passing of steam and the return of the "J" caused some concerns. I have also heard that some RRs now do place MT's and/or MT flats on the rear of a train. This might be driven by the light weight of the flat car. That, of course, is a subject for another group. Mike Brock
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Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars
Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
On any flatcar with fish-belly side sills, I sacrifice almost all underbody detail (some of my flatcars have brake rods showing next to the trucks) in the interest of weight. Generally I have little trouble getting an empty car of this type up to the specifications of NMRA RP-20.5. It's those cars with the high, straight side sills - like the Tichy kit - that I find hard to weight. So far I have mostly fish-belly flatcars, and for UP and most Santa Fe steam-era flatcars that's fine.
so long, Andy Andy Sperandeo Executive Editor MODEL RAILROADER Magazine 262-796-8776, ext. 461 Fax 262-796-1142 asperandeo@...
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Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars
Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
The casting of low temp alloys in silicone moulds requires the same amount
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of modeling skill and master making as would casting of resin. But, the moulds don't last quite as long, and admittedly, unless some care is taken with the casting process, the detail may not come out quite as good. I have cast both in the same mould, however, and have found that it is possible to achieve very good results with low temp alloys. I guess those old Binkley and paper Athearn kits knew something - usually the underframe was all cast zamac or other metal. Tom Jones
----- Original Message -----
To add the equipment to produce metal castings for gons, flats
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Re: Removing Red Caboose Lettering Was: SOU 1937 AAR Box Model
George Hollwedel <georgeloop1338@...>
www.joesmodeltrains.com
get the remover gel, tell him I sent you! djmiller@... wrote: I have a couple Red Caboose Southern boxcars in the white lettering, but I'd like to backdate them by replacing the white herald with an aluminum one from Ted's Speedwitch set. Is there a good method for removing the red caboose printing without harming the paint? Thanks, Dan Miller
Yahoo! Groups Links George Hollwedel Prototype N Scale Models georgeloop@... 310 Loma Verde Street Buda, TX 78610-9785 512-796-6883 --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
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Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars
Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
On May 26, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:
To add the equipment to produce metal castings for gons, flatsI refrained from answering the original suggestion, because I consider cast metal to be inferior to resin to reproduce details... however, I realized cast brass can in fact reproduce details quite well. However, your response got me thinking... <DANGER!> In fact, one can purchase relatively low temperature melting alloys from sources like micro mark. These can be used in RTV molds such as we use for resin. Additional investment consists of a ladle, blow torch and protective goggles and gloves. For something like the F30A this might be ideal - after all, the frame was cast on the prototype! The down side would be in creating the complex shapes, although one could use the same multi-piece approach Sunshine did. This MIGHT be an approach for a simpler underframe, although I do not think that the rivet detail on built-up underframes would come out nearly as well. Another word of caution here. I know all this because I tried to cast new frames for a locomotive. The metal was not nearly strong enough for that application, however, it might well work for a freight car. On May 26, 2005, at 8:27 AM, Tom Jones III wrote: Another solution for flat cars is to sandwich in a strip of leadI considered this, but flat car decking is visible from the bottom, and on my F30A I went "all the way" on the details <G> Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
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Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars
Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Birdshot works for me. I weigh #7 or #8 shot (chosen for it's small size so
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it "flows" well) on a digital scale, then Superglue it up in the under frame. Unless you turn it upside down or look up thru a trestle, it's out of sight! -- Thanks! Brian Ehni
From: Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
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Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars
Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
Another solution for flat cars is to sandwich in a strip of lead between the
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deck and the underbody details. This may entail gouging out space for it, and in some cases there simply is not enough room no matter what you do, but I have found it to really help get the weight up on flats and gondolas. Tom Jones
----- Original Message -----
Subject: [STMFC] re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars Bruce wrote:obvious solution is the do a cast metal underframe to add weight to model kits yet we insist on doingthem in resin or styrene.
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Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars
Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On May 25, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Eric wrote:
What is the problem that model railroading has with multi media kits? The obvious solution is the doThe solution is not so obvious to those who would make the metal castings. Speaking for the resin side of the house, there is already a significant investment (for a small sole proprietor) in both capital equipment and learning for a small return on investment (read: labor of love). To add the equipment to produce metal castings for gons, flats and hoppers, when they comprise a small part of a line of offerings is not a further wise investment in equipment and or the time to learn how to use them. You could outsource this segment, but no one would like resin kits that would be even more expensive. Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912
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Removing Red Caboose Lettering Was: SOU 1937 AAR Box Model
djmiller@...
I have a couple Red Caboose Southern boxcars in the white lettering, but I'd
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like to backdate them by replacing the white herald with an aluminum one from Ted's Speedwitch set. Is there a good method for removing the red caboose printing without harming the paint? Thanks, Dan Miller
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Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars
Paul Hillman
Anyone know of any photos/info for C&WI freight cars? I grew up along
the C&WI tracks in Chicago and remember seeing about a 36ft wooden gondola, with either drop-bottom floors, or hinged side-doors. I measured it and made a drawing of it when I was about 14. Don't have it anymore. I have searched the groups & web for any C&WI photos but haven't found anything. I know the C&WI didn't have much rolling stock. Paul Hillman
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Re: SOU 1937 AAR Box Model
mike turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
Thanks, Aidrian. After knowing if the model was reasonably accurate for SOU, this was exactly the sort of information I needed. Now, to find more pictures and buy a few RC kits. :) It sure is nice having the SRHA 40' box book, Tom's 1937 pdf, and this list.
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Mike Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton wrote:
I would be careful with the Champ roadname set for any Southern car with
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Re: SOU 1937 AAR Box Model
Scott Pitzer
I used the Champ set on a 50' PS-1 and it's always looked wrong. When I did a 1946 40' AAR I used a transfer set which looked better-- that would be CDS, I believe.
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Scott Pitzer ==============================
-----Original Message-----
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...> Sent: May 25, 2005 8:29 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: SOU 1937 AAR Box Model I would be careful with the Champ roadname set for any Southern car with the 12" lettering ? the typeface is subtly but noticeably different to Southern?s usual version of Roman ? the ?N? in particular looks ?off? as do some of the numbers. What Champ do have is the larger lettering and numbers (used in the mid to late fifties before the Block Gothic style cam in) I'm not aware of any other source; the typeface looks a bit off on these as well, but it's the only game in town unless you want to do it by hand. You may want to consider Al Westerfield?s decals for his 36? SU cars instead of the Champ set - use the set for the later, re-sheathed SU cars as the earlier lettering was in a condensed typeface unlike anything used later. The herald on the original batches was real Aluminum paint; Ted Culotta has recently made decals for these available together with what looks to be thoroughly accurate lettering- see www.speedwitch.com. Aidrian -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Beckert, Shawn <snip> Decals: depending on your era, you'll want Champ's HN-12 Southern roadname set, along with the appropriate data set. If you're modeling an early car, you will need to order Ted's decal set which includes the aluminum herald. As always, it's best to use photographs to determine exact lettering placement and other details. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links
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GATX Tank Car
sdrobatschewsky
Looking for information about a 10,000 gallon GATX tank car in the
5xxxxx car number series. In 1959, the Southern Pacific built a sand tower in Dunsmuir, welding two tank cars end to end and standing the cars on end. In pictures I took in the 1980's I can see partial markings on one of the tank cars as indicated above. This tank car also had tie-down bands on each side of the dome as witnessed by the corrosion under the band area. My questions are: 1) who made this car; 2) what was the length of the tank (with or without the end domes; 3) What was the diameter of the tank; 4) Have any drawings ever been published for this car type? Thanks for any help. Serge
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Re: SOU 1937 AAR Box Model
Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
I would be careful with the Champ roadname set for any Southern car with
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the 12" lettering – the typeface is subtly but noticeably different to Southern’s usual version of Roman – the “N” in particular looks “off” as do some of the numbers. What Champ do have is the larger lettering and numbers (used in the mid to late fifties before the Block Gothic style cam in) I'm not aware of any other source; the typeface looks a bit off on these as well, but it's the only game in town unless you want to do it by hand. You may want to consider Al Westerfield’s decals for his 36’ SU cars instead of the Champ set - use the set for the later, re-sheathed SU cars as the earlier lettering was in a condensed typeface unlike anything used later. The herald on the original batches was real Aluminum paint; Ted Culotta has recently made decals for these available together with what looks to be thoroughly accurate lettering- see www.speedwitch.com. Aidrian
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Beckert, Shawn <snip> Decals: depending on your era, you'll want Champ's HN-12 Southern roadname set, along with the appropriate data set. If you're modeling an early car, you will need to order Ted's decal set which includes the aluminum herald. As always, it's best to use photographs to determine exact lettering placement and other details. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005
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M-K-T 3-Bay PS-2s
Tom Palmer
Ed and Shawn,
This car would be referedto as a late 1950s to early 1960 repaint. For what it is worth the Katy car shop guys I know from Denison refered to this color as tuscan. Lettering layout is typical for late 1950s repaints, Best regards, Tom Palmer http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt34064abp.jpg Tom Palmer remlapmot@... EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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M-K-T 3-Bay PS-2s
Ed Hawkins
Group,
In March 1958, M-K-T received 15 3-bay PS-2s of 2,893 cu. ft. capacity numbered 1-15. The B&W builder's photo shows a dark-colored car with what appears to be white stencils. Does anyone know with certainty what color these cars were painted? Thank you in advance. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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M-K-T 3-Bay PS-2s
Tom Palmer
To the group,
Starting in the late 1940s the Katy quite using yellow paint on new and repaint cars. Repainted single sheath cars tended to be close to Scalecoat oxide red then the color shifted to a darker shade refered as tuscan red. New cars were refered to as being painted tuscan red. These cars tended to be darker or closer to PRR tuscan. The plainer red freight cars (excluding passenger equipment) did not start showing up until the Barringer years. Deramus had an adversion to painting freight equipment but would cast his curse on the passenger fleet. So as Tony and Richard said to me at Naperville one year "If it looks right to you who cares?" Later gents, Tom Palmer Tom Palmer remlapmot@... EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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Re: M-K-T 3-Bay PS-2s
Shawn Beckert
Ed Hawkins asked:
In March 1958, M-K-T received 15 3-bay PS-2s of 2,893 cu. ft. capacityAnd Tom Palmer replied: In that time period Katy was using Tuscan red on new cars and repaints.Tom, was it actually Tuscan (as in PRR "Tuscan") or the typical "Katy" red? Here are several variations of MKT red: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt9135ckg.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt9449bbp.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt9727ajs.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt34064abp.jpg It's hard to tell what the original color was like since red weathers badly. Unfortunately I couldn't find any photos of Katy PS-2's of the 2893 capacity. Shawn Beckert
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Re: NYC Diagram Book
Justin Kahn
How about thirty years ago? And I was pretty sure it wasn't Wayner.
Jace Kahn ebay #6534886171 Starting bid: US $19.99 Description DIMENSIONS AND CLASSIFICATION OF FREIGHT CAR EQUIPTMENT OF THE NEW YORK CENTRAL SYSTEM, 12-31-1938, REVISED 6-30-1944. THIS SOFTCOVER BOOK IS AN AUTHENTIC REPRINT FROM GEORGE COCKLE.IT WAS REPRINTED IN 1974. LISTS NYC, P&LE, B&A, P&E, MC, BIG FOUR, AND PMCK&Y EQUIPTMENT. VERY GOOD CONDITION, ONE SMALL MARK ON BACK COVER. RARE! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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STMFC] M-K-T 3-Bay PS-2s
Tom Palmer
Hi Ed,
In that time period Katy was using Tuscan red on new cars and repaints. Best regards, Tom Palmer Tom Palmer remlapmot@... EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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