Date   

Youngstown 5/5/4/ doors

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Dipping way back into the archives on 11/6/02 Ed Hawkins said
"Regarding the earlier style Improved Youngstown doors used by numerous
roads
circa late 1946 and 1947 with 5/5/4 corrugation pattern (UP and ATSF often
used this style door into the 1950s), there's some ongoing activity to have
these doors offered in cast urethane. Jack Spencer recently produced a
terrific set of masters for these doors and is in process of coordinating
with a manufacturer to produce them. Bill Schneider of Branchline Trains
graciously gave his permission to use masters fabricated from his existing
doors to be used for this project. Here's hoping these doors become
available
in the near future."

Were these doors ever produced, and where are they available?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Jeff Aley:
I am aware of some metal-filled epoxies that we have used
here at
work (70 - 80% silver-bearing epoxy); I wonder if any of these are
suitably dense and can be used for "resin" casting. I suspect
that Mr.
Madden would know for sure.
For one thing, mold life is much shorter with epoxies than it is
with urethanes, which by itself adds cost to the process. Silver-
bearing materials aren't cheap either, and they aren't as dense as
you might expect. Al used lead-filled cast polyester floors for his
line of SP stock cars, but even they check in on the light side.
Aaron Gjermundson's cast resin NP flat car kit (which I'll get to as
soon as I finish casting his NP stock cars) is designed with a
pocket between the floor and the underframe to accommodate a flat
weight. Designing a kit to accept extra weight is much better than
leaving it up to the modeler to figure out down the line.

Tom Madden


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Paul Hillman
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul Hillman" <chris_hillman@m...>
wrote:
Durn,....sounds like that could be the car. I went to the IRM page
and found it in their freight car roster. No picture though. Built by,
Haskell & Barber, 1913, 40ft, Wood Side Dump Gondola, #1185.
***********************************************************************
Ooops,...I think I found a "typo" in the Illinois RR Museum lit. That
should be Haskell & Barker, (not Barber)? Right?

Paul Hillman


Re: Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stefan Lerche asked:
Can someone comment on this Steve Wzdeck photo of IC #162099? Who
built/ how does one describe this type of boxcar end?
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic162099asw.jpg

This is a Van Dorn end, applied to an indeterminate number of house cars in
the teens. I'm not sure how many railroads built cars with this end; a
builder's photo of PRR 63837, a Class XL built in 1912 is on page 18 of the
Summer 2000 Keystone (which extensively covers Class XL with articles by
Gary Rausch, Bob Johnson, and Al Westerfield).
http://www.club-e-stores.com/store/product51.html


Ben Hom


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Paul Hillman
 

Durn,....sounds like that could be the car. I went to the IRM page and found it in their freight car roster. No picture though. Built by, Haskell & Barber, 1913, 40ft, Wood Side Dump Gondola, #1185. Now I just gotta search for Haskell & Barber cars. I'm in Houston, TX. Long way back up to Illinois. Thanks A.T.

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: proto48er<mailto:atkott@...>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars


--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>, "behillman" <chris_hillman@m<mailto:chris_hillman@m>...> wrote:
> Anyone know of any photos/info for C&WI freight cars? I grew up along
> the C&WI tracks in Chicago and remember seeing about a 36ft wooden
> gondola, with either drop-bottom floors, or hinged side-doors . . .

Paul - I think you can still SEE that car you wrote about!! I think it
is at the Illinois Railroad Museum in Union, Illinois. You might
contact them and ask. It has drop sides and drop floor "doors". I
remember photographing it there in the early 1980's. A.T. Kott


Re: Erie 44' Hopper Conversions

Jerry Dziedzic
 

If you can point me toward views of any of the cars in
whichever state, I'd be interested in seeing them
Well, let's see what we can do about that. Stay tuned.


Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

oliver
 

Can someone comment on this Steve Wzdeck photo of IC #162099. Who
built/ how does one describe this type of boxcar end?

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic162099asw.jpg

thanks
Stefan
Duncan, BC


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

proto48er
 

--- In STMFC@..., "behillman" <chris_hillman@m...> wrote:
Anyone know of any photos/info for C&WI freight cars? I grew up along
the C&WI tracks in Chicago and remember seeing about a 36ft wooden
gondola, with either drop-bottom floors, or hinged side-doors . . .
Paul - I think you can still SEE that car you wrote about!! I think it
is at the Illinois Railroad Museum in Union, Illinois. You might
contact them and ask. It has drop sides and drop floor "doors". I
remember photographing it there in the early 1980's. A.T. Kott


Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars

s shaffer
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars


Birdshot works for me. I weigh #7 or #8 shot (chosen for it's small size
so
it "flows" well) on a digital scale, then Superglue it up in the under
frame. Unless you turn it upside down or look up thru a trestle, it's out
of
sight!
Although not as common as #7 or #8 shot, there is a #9 that is smaller than
the other two. I just looked and there is also a #12 size, but it may be
very difficult to find.

Steve Shaffer


Re: GATX Tank Car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Looking for information about a 10,000 gallon GATX tank car in the
5xxxxx car number series. In 1959, the Southern Pacific built a sand
tower in Dunsmuir, welding two tank cars end to end and standing the
cars on end. In pictures I took in the 1980's I can see partial
markings on one of the tank cars as indicated above.
Do you mean GATC-built or in GATX service? What do the markings say?

Richard Hendrickson commented:
Not much to go on here, Serge, as most SP tank cars were originally
numbered in the 50000 series before the mid-'50s renumbering and none
were 10,000 gallon cars . . . If you can zero in on
the car class(es) used to make the sand tower, it's possible that the
Calif. State RR Museum might have drawings from the SP mechanical dept.
files, but I'm not aware of any published drawings for any of the cars
in question.
I'm not aware of any car drawings either.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: MT Flat Cars in a Train

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Denis F. Blake wrote:
On loaded unit grain trains there can be NO MTs in the train at all. An
emergency application of the brakes could lead to these cars being thrown
from the train. The same is true for loaded unit coal trains as well.
Is this a lead-in to revisit the famous "car that leaped out of the train and was never found" story?
<VBG>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Grubb wrote:
My question should be more accurately stated, are you aware of any alternatives to ZA that are commercially available for production in China that are heavier and yet have detail and shrinkage characteristics that are at least as good as the ZA we now use? I understand you have experience in metallurgy, but I don't know if it extends to the particular area of expertise above.
Yes, that's much more specific! I am definitely a metallurgist, but don't know a great deal about die casting alloys. The name "ZA" might mean a lot of things; in a handbook there are dozens of pages about zinc alloys. I can look into this if you want.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars

jaley <jaley@...>
 

Ted,

I am aware of some metal-filled epoxies that we have used here at
work (70 - 80% silver-bearing epoxy); I wonder if any of these are
suitably dense and can be used for "resin" casting. I suspect that Mr.
Madden would know for sure.

Regards,

-Jeff



On May 26, 6:21am, Ted Culotta wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat
cars

The solution is not so obvious to those who would make the metal
castings. Speaking for the resin side of the house, there is already a
significant investment (for a small sole proprietor) in both capital
equipment and learning for a small return on investment (read: labor of
love). To add the equipment to produce metal castings for gons, flats
and hoppers, when they comprise a small part of a line of offerings is
not a further wise investment in equipment and or the time to learn how
to use them. You could outsource this segment, but no one would like
resin kits that would be even more expensive.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
-- End of excerpt from Ted Culotta


--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Erie 44' Hopper Conversions

Justin Kahn
 

Dear Jerry
If you'll review the thread, both the quad hopper #37000 class and the solid-bottom gondola #45000 class were re-builds of the ca. 1923 drop-bottom gondolas (#43000 class--I think I remembered all those correctly off the top of my head), so the slope sheets and all the hopper end-bracing were part of the rebuilds, starting in 1934. Although I hadn't seen any photo views of the ends of the quads (let alone the rebuilt gondolas), the 1950 diagram book posted on the Elwood website shows the hopper modifications quite clearly--enough that one could probably build a decent model from the dimensional data. If you can point me toward views of any of the cars in whichever state, I'd be interested in seeing them--although my gondola is about as finished as it is going to get at this stage.
I'd suspect whoever used the Mantua highsides modelled only the gondolas rather than the quad hoppers, which would no doubt require scratchbuilding (or at least I would think scratchbuilding would be easier than trying to bash them). They might make an interesting project for Al Westefield...
Jace Kahn

The Mantua "Heavies" model is the only one I'm aware of, but there
may be
another one out there.
Though I'm late to this party, there's still something to add. I
guess
you mean that the Mantua cars are a good starting point for a kit
bash. The H- series cars had an unusual end arrangement. It was
similar to a conventional hopper, with the slope sheet and slope
sheet
braces visible. However, the end panels of the sides were sheathed.
Viewed from the side, the cars look like conventional gons. Viewed
from the end, they look like conventional open hoppers.

I don't know if this feature was part of the original design, or
added
at the time the cars were rebuilt.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement


Re: MT Flat Cars in a Train

seaboard_1966
 

Let me chime in here if I may with regard to how cars are distributed in trains. The era is off a bit as this is from my experience from modern day railroading working as a conductor for NS.

On my district we have no restrictions on how trains are built except for the placement of dangerous cars with regard to the head end of the train. There is no restriction on where empty flats and some of the percieved lighter can can be place. I have had flat cars on the head end of the train and Schnabel cars on the rear. Some cars, such as the Schnabel do have placement restrictions noted on the wheel report. It is very common today to have "sinkers" on the rear of the train. Trains are not built with placement of weight being a concern. Blocking of cars for some of the trains is the most important thing.

On loaded unit grain trains there can be NO MTs in the train at all. An emergency application of the brakes could lead to these cars being thrown from the train. The same is true for loaded unit coal trains as well. For that matter of fact it is true for most loaded single commodity trains.

Sorry to have digressed from the steam era of this list but I thought that perhaps some folks would be interested in how this matter is handled in the real world of modern railroading.

Denis Blake

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MT Flat Cars in a Train


On May 26, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Mike Brock wrote:
This issue surfaced rather unpleasantly several yrs ago on the
STMFC. Since
then, I have been rather curious about the placement of MTs on trains,
particularly with regard to flat cars. I have found many cases of
obviously
MT flat cars on or near the head end. Taking a look at the light
weight of
flat cars in our period, I note that the UP F-50-11 weighed 47500
lbs MT. UP
40 ft box cars weighed from 36900 to 45600 lbs MT...most in the
42000 area.
The UP H-70-1 3 bay hopper had a light weight of 44900 lbs while
the HK-50-4
hopper weighed 44800 lbs. The problem, of course, is...if it were
desireable
to place MT's on the rear, what would one do when the entire train
contains
MT's...and it did happen and not infrequently.
Excellent point, and you've answered the question <VBG> you put the
heavier empties (flat cars) in front, or rather, the lightest cars in
back. I too have seen photos of empty flats near the head end as
well, but as you note, that may be a train of empties. Mostly
though, this is going to relate to specific train handling rules for
specific locations... might be very different on a flat straight RR
from a curvy hilly one.

I have noted that PRR practice was to always put heavy loads on the
front end, and lighter cars on the tail end. In the case of a train
of loads with empty flats, they would then be at the rear, but ...

All bets are off about rules. A friend of mine used to work for
Seaboard and he described a great situation to me whereby management
decided to reduce switching moves by changing the order of cars on
the trains in his division. Suddenly trains in one direction kept
stalling, and in the other, they kept breaking apart. The whole
problem was weigh distribution - in this case insisting on adding too
many cars of "rock" to the tail end.

The rules aren't absolute either - it may not be that the empties
have to be the last cars, but say, in the last 20 cars and it may be
that a limited number of empties could go in front of loads.

And of course there is the issue of odd loads. There's that "empty"
idler flat hooked up to the heaviest load on the train! Of course,
the last one I saw was hunting like an hound dog! I swear I saw
daylight every 3 seconds under the wheels!!

The problem in that case is
that the train of MT's might have as much train resistance as one with
loads.
Or more if you figure starting resistance, because the train of
empties has more cars, and therefor more bearings.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0








Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: MT Flat Cars in a Train

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On May 26, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Mike Brock wrote:
This issue surfaced rather unpleasantly several yrs ago on the
STMFC. Since
then, I have been rather curious about the placement of MTs on trains,
particularly with regard to flat cars. I have found many cases of
obviously
MT flat cars on or near the head end. Taking a look at the light
weight of
flat cars in our period, I note that the UP F-50-11 weighed 47500
lbs MT. UP
40 ft box cars weighed from 36900 to 45600 lbs MT...most in the
42000 area.
The UP H-70-1 3 bay hopper had a light weight of 44900 lbs while
the HK-50-4
hopper weighed 44800 lbs. The problem, of course, is...if it were
desireable
to place MT's on the rear, what would one do when the entire train
contains
MT's...and it did happen and not infrequently.
Excellent point, and you've answered the question <VBG> you put the
heavier empties (flat cars) in front, or rather, the lightest cars in
back. I too have seen photos of empty flats near the head end as
well, but as you note, that may be a train of empties. Mostly
though, this is going to relate to specific train handling rules for
specific locations... might be very different on a flat straight RR
from a curvy hilly one.

I have noted that PRR practice was to always put heavy loads on the
front end, and lighter cars on the tail end. In the case of a train
of loads with empty flats, they would then be at the rear, but ...

All bets are off about rules. A friend of mine used to work for
Seaboard and he described a great situation to me whereby management
decided to reduce switching moves by changing the order of cars on
the trains in his division. Suddenly trains in one direction kept
stalling, and in the other, they kept breaking apart. The whole
problem was weigh distribution - in this case insisting on adding too
many cars of "rock" to the tail end.

The rules aren't absolute either - it may not be that the empties
have to be the last cars, but say, in the last 20 cars and it may be
that a limited number of empties could go in front of loads.

And of course there is the issue of odd loads. There's that "empty"
idler flat hooked up to the heaviest load on the train! Of course,
the last one I saw was hunting like an hound dog! I swear I saw
daylight every 3 seconds under the wheels!!

The problem in that case is
that the train of MT's might have as much train resistance as one with
loads.
Or more if you figure starting resistance, because the train of
empties has more cars, and therefor more bearings.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Gene Green?

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Hi all,
Current email address is bierglaeser at yahoo dot com. As Clark says,
I'm on the road but should be home in a couple of weeks for a couple of
weeks.
Gene Green
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@n...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
Gene-
What's your current e-mail address?
Ed
E-mail Address(es):
lgreen@e...

He mobile right now, don't know how often he checks in. I should see
him Sunday.
Clark Propst


Re: Joe Collias

trduck@...
 

Joe has an unlisted telephone number. Contact me off-list for his address. trduck@...


From: "ajfergusonca" <ajferguson@...>
Date: 2005/05/26 Thu PM 04:20:20 EDT
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Joe Collias


Re: GATX Tank Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 25, 2005, at 9:43 PM, sdrobatschewsky wrote:

Looking for information about a 10,000 gallon GATX tank car in the
5xxxxx car number series. In 1959, the Southern Pacific built a sand
tower in Dunsmuir, welding two tank cars end to end and standing the
cars on end. In pictures I took in the 1980's I can see partial
markings on one of the tank cars as indicated above. This tank car also
had tie-down bands on each side of the dome as witnessed by the
corrosion under the band area. My questions are: 1) who made this car;
2) what was the length of the tank (with or without the end domes; 3)
What was the diameter of the tank; 4) Have any drawings ever been
published for this car type? Thanks for any help.
Serge
Not much to go on here, Serge, as most SP tank cars were originally numbered in the 50000 series before the mid-'50s renumbering and none were 10,000 gallon cars. With the exception of the O-50-14 class of 1942, which were 8K gal. GATC cars, the SP's fuel oil tank cars all had capacities of 12K to 12.5 K. A number of classes built in the 1920s (O-50-4 through O-50-11) had radial course tanks with tank bands on either side of the dome as well as at the bolsters, so that feature doesn't narrow down the possibilities very much. If you can zero in on the car class(es) used to make the sand tower, it's possible that the Calif. State RR Museum might have drawings from the SP mechanical dept. files, but I'm not aware of any published drawings for any of the cars in question.

Richard Hendrickson


Joe Collias

ajfergusonca <ajferguson@...>
 

Does anybody have a phone number or address for Joe Collias.
Interested in some photos.
Allen Ferguson

151761 - 151780 of 193504