Date   

Re: Naiperville or Cocoa beach

Jeff English
 

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:
Florida in January is always a draw.
Since three out of three posts have made basically the same statement,
I have to respond, if only for balance's sake, that I subscribe to the
Garrison Keillor philosophy, i.e., I resist the whole culture
of "Florida is better than northern winters".

Secondly, the timing of Cocoa Beach, so soon after the holidays, just
does not work for me.

I'll see you all in cool, crisp autumn Naperville.

Jeff English
Troy, New York


Re: Naiperville or Cocoa beach

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On May 27, 2005, at 8:28 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

If I have only enough money to attend one of the above events which would be
better? I have not been to either but want to attend one of them this year.
Which would offer more bang for the buck for a serious 50's modeler? I
realize our listmaster is biased here, and Florida in January sounds real
good to this Buffalonian but I thought I'd ask the question.
They're both quite good. Florida in January is always a draw. The one great thing about Naperville for many who have not attended is the ability to buy Sunshine kits without the wait (well, the wait in line may be annoying, but it doesn't take six months!) The clinics at both are top notch.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

Another unusual thing about the car is the doors. There are two on each
side and they BOTH open to the right.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Westerfield
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

The photo is the AC&F builders photo. This is the only series of cars
to my knowledge that was built in quantity with Van Dorn ends. As I
recall (I looked it up many years ago) there were 300. There were 25
XLs with the end. SP had at least one B-50-4 with the end (pictured in
a Cyc - 1916?) and MILW had at least one - I have a photo. I've been
intending to do the end for several years. In fact I had decals made
for the XL but always seem to run out of time. - Al Westerfield








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Re: Sunshine models contact

charles slater
 

Sunshine Models has moved, so use the PO box adress.

From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine models contact
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 13:51:34 -0000

Doug Ortman wrote:
"This is from another web site:

Sunshine Models
723 West Katella Street
Springfield, MO 65807

[Available direct, mail only; No Phone, No Fax, No e-mail]"

Don't know if it's accurate or not."


Use this address instead:

Sunshine Models
Box 4997
Springfield, MO 65808-4997


Ben Hom





Naiperville or Cocoa beach

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

If I have only enough money to attend one of the above events which would be
better? I have not been to either but want to attend one of them this year.
Which would offer more bang for the buck for a serious 50's modeler? I
realize our listmaster is biased here, and Florida in January sounds real
good to this Buffalonian but I thought I'd ask the question.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Naiperville or Cocoa beach

Greg Martin
 

Brian you wrote:

If I have only enough money to attend one of the above events which would be
better? I have not been to either but want to attend one of them this year.
Which would offer more bang for the buck for a serious 50's modeler? I
realize our listmaster is biased here, and Florida in January sounds real good to
this Buffalonian but I thought I'd ask the question.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY



Brian,

Both are very worthy of your travel dollars and January in Florida is a real
draw for me. I find that the seminars being broke up by a ½ hour is a
definite plus. Starting a seminar on the hour every hour is problematic especially
if the presentation goes over... Now try to find a seat in the next seminar.
The venues are equal and the company is great. The travel for me is no more
costly to either, but if I had restricted travel dollar to me I would head
south... This year I will not make Naperville but I shall make Cocoa Beach.

Greg Martin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Where to get ORERs? I can't really tell you, but when I have encountered them older than 1950, I have simply BOUGHT them,
regardless of what that meant to other expenditures. Bob of Bob's Photos showed up at an ELHS meeting a few years back with
a stack of about 30 of them, with red buckram hard covers, more or less one per year. IIRC, they were in the neighborhood of
$50 each for the 1930's copies, and more (a lot more) for the earlier years. That pretty well removed my discretionary
spending for a couple months (or more) but I came away with four, and I know who bought several others. I've seen them at
shows like Springfield, but (fortunately) they've been 1960's or so. I do have a few from the 60s/70s that I do not recall
how I came to be the owner.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Paul Hillman
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Schuyler,

That's a pretty unusual roster. 6 Ice Cars, 11 Passenger
cars, and 600 gondolas. By the description, "H&B Ballast"
would be "Haskell & Barker"?

Where does one get ORER's? I may still have a paperback book
in storage, given to me 40 years ago, by a railroad man,
which listed every U.S. railroad, officers, offices, mileage,
cars, engines, etc. It is about 4" wide, 5" tall & about 3"
thick. It also had lots of ads for railroad parts &
materials. It was published around the late 40's I believe.
It didn't list cars by class, etc., only "total freight cars", etc..

(I'm in a slow process of moving homes.)

Paul Hillman
----- Original Message -----
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Paul Hillman wrote:
Anyone know of any photos/info for C&WI freight cars?

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Well, Paul, from the 1935 ORER, I can offer you the entire
listing . .

Line 1
Type RB "Ice" No's 1450 to 1455,
Inside: L 35'-8", W 7'-9", H 6'-2.5" (yes, six feet)
Outside: L 36'-10", W 9'-4" H (from rail), 12'-4" Doors 4'-6"
1704 CF, 5,000 lb

Line 2
Type GDA, H&B Ballast No's 800 to 1399
Inside: L 37'-7", W 8'-6", H 3'
Outside: L 40'. W 9'-1", H (to running board) 4', (from rail) 6'-7"
CF 985, 100000 lb.

Passenger Equipment
MCB: "BA" Baggage No 1, 74' long, one only

MCB: "CA" Coach & Baggage, No 2, seats 30, 74' long, one only

MCB: "PA" Coach, No 15, seats 100, 74' long, one only

MCB: "PB" Coach, Nos 86-388, seats 72, 60' long, eight thus.

11 total passenger cars.

SGL





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Re: Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

George Gounley <gounleys@...>
 

Further on Van Dorn:

1. The Railway Age for April 12, 1907 has a note titled, "The Van Dorn
Steel Box Car" with a view of what is probably the 1/10th full size model
discussed in the text. The end looks like the IC car except without the
corner triangles, each side sheet has a large bullseye at top and bottom
with two smaller, side by side bull's-eyes in between, and the roof panels
sound like corrugated iron between a flat area at the running board and an
angle at the sides.

2. Railway Master Mechanic, Vol. 36, p. 565 (Dec 1912?) has a picture of
5 CRI&P box cars (end one is 32556, all 5 cars look to be the same design)
which were rebuilt with Van Dorn ends. The article mentions, "Nearly three
years ago a Southern Pacific car was equipped with a Van Dorn . . ." and, ".
. . is in use on a number of roads, including the Illinois Central, the
Southern Pacific and the Rock Island."

3. Railway Master Mechanic, Vol. 37, p. 485 (Oct 1913) states, ". . . the
Illinois Central, after having an end in use for two years, recently placed
orders for 600 one-piece ends." (presumably for the 300 furniture cars) It
also has a drawing of a two-piece end, with the bullseye shallower and
elongated into concentric ovals, the triangles in the corners being replaced
by horizontal extensions of the outermost oval.

4. Railway Master Mechanic, Vol. 37, p. 573 (Dec 1913) has plan,
elevation and end views of the 50ft IC furniture cars pictured at
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic162099asw.jpg

George Gounley


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Paul Hillman asked:
"Where does one get ORER's?"

The most reasonably priced option is offered by Al Westerfield, who has
ORERs scanned on CD for $20 each:
http://www.westerfield.biz/cg040001.htm

The NMRA offers reprints of the 1943 and 1953 ORERs.
Members:
http://www.rrhistorical.com/cgi/NMRA_Store/nmra-store.cgi?ORDER_ID=111133996
&thispage=page5.html&ACTION=NEXT+PAGE
Non-Members:
http://www.rrhistorical.com/cgi/NMRA_Store_NonMembers/nmra-store.cgi?ORDER_I
D=112583808&thispage=page2.html&ACTION=NEXT+PAGE

Originals can still be found on eBay and at railroadiana shows, but be
prepared to pay premium prices for pre-1960 issues. Keep in mind also that
these were never meant as archival publications, and after 40-50 years, the
pages may be very fragile and will not stand up to regular use as a
reference.


Ben Hom


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Paul Hillman
 

Schuyler,

That's a pretty unusual roster. 6 Ice Cars, 11 Passenger cars, and 600 gondolas. By the description, "H&B Ballast" would be "Haskell & Barker"?

Where does one get ORER's? I may still have a paperback book in storage, given to me 40 years ago, by a railroad man, which listed every U.S. railroad, officers, offices, mileage, cars, engines, etc. It is about 4" wide, 5" tall & about 3" thick. It also had lots of ads for railroad parts & materials. It was published around the late 40's I believe. It didn't list cars by class, etc., only "total freight cars", etc..

(I'm in a slow process of moving homes.)

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Paul Hillman wrote:
Anyone know of any photos/info for C&WI freight cars?

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Well, Paul, from the 1935 ORER, I can offer you the entire listing . .

Line 1
Type RB "Ice" No's 1450 to 1455,
Inside: L 35'-8", W 7'-9", H 6'-2.5" (yes, six feet)
Outside: L 36'-10", W 9'-4" H (from rail), 12'-4" Doors 4'-6"
1704 CF, 5,000 lb

Line 2
Type GDA, H&B Ballast No's 800 to 1399
Inside: L 37'-7", W 8'-6", H 3'
Outside: L 40'. W 9'-1", H (to running board) 4', (from rail) 6'-7"
CF 985, 100000 lb.

Passenger Equipment
MCB: "BA" Baggage No 1, 74' long, one only

MCB: "CA" Coach & Baggage, No 2, seats 30, 74' long, one only

MCB: "PA" Coach, No 15, seats 100, 74' long, one only

MCB: "PB" Coach, Nos 86-388, seats 72, 60' long, eight thus.

11 total passenger cars.

SGL





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NE Prototype Modelers Meet is June 3-4 in Connecticut

Dave Owens
 

The meet begins a week from today, Friday, June 3 and continues on
Saturday June 4. This year's meet features tours of Branchline
Trains Thursday night June 2 at 5 and 7:30 p.m., and layout tours on
Sunday, June 5.

At this point we have 20 clinics and slide shows scheduled. And as
always, we're hoping for a strong turnout in the model display.

We'll also have some manufacturers and vendors on hand, including
Atlas Model Railroad Co., Branchline Trains, Bethlehem Car Works,
Funaro & Camerlengo, Bob's Photos, Mike Rose Hobbies and Sheepscot
Scale Products.

For a look at our tentative schedule, please visit our website:
http://www.trainweb.org/neprototypemeet/

For more information or for a list of nearby hotels, please contact
me at neprotomeet@...

Thanks,

Dave Owens


Re: Sunshine models contact

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Doug Ortman wrote:
"This is from another web site:

Sunshine Models
723 West Katella Street
Springfield, MO 65807

[Available direct, mail only; No Phone, No Fax, No e-mail]"

Don't know if it's accurate or not."


Use this address instead:

Sunshine Models
Box 4997
Springfield, MO 65808-4997


Ben Hom


Re: Sunshine models contact

Doug Ortman <douort@...>
 

This is from another web site:

"Sunshine Models
723 West Katella Street
Springfield, MO 65807

[Available direct, mail only; No Phone, No Fax, No e-mail]"

Don't know if it's accurate or not.

Doug Ortman

--- In STMFC@..., "lrkdbn" <lrkdbn@a...> wrote:
I recently tried to call Sunshine Models and the phone number I
had,
which has worked in the past, was to a different person unrelated
to
them.Does anyone have their new number?

Larry King <lrkdbn@a...>


Re: model flat car weight was Union Pacific flat cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Tom,

I am glad to see that you are doing Aaron's stock cars for him as there
are still a few people that still are waiting for the cars they ordered
almost two years ago. Ben Hom is the only one on this list that is
still waiting for his two cars that I know of. Fortunately, Aaron
took our advice and is having the cars cast by someone else rather than
trying to do it himself.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

pullmanboss wrote:

Jeff Aley:


I am aware of some metal-filled epoxies that we have used

here at


work (70 - 80% silver-bearing epoxy); I wonder if any of these are
suitably dense and can be used for "resin" casting. I suspect

that Mr.


Madden would know for sure.

For one thing, mold life is much shorter with epoxies than it is
with urethanes, which by itself adds cost to the process. Silver-
bearing materials aren't cheap either, and they aren't as dense as
you might expect. Al used lead-filled cast polyester floors for his
line of SP stock cars, but even they check in on the light side.
Aaron Gjermundson's cast resin NP flat car kit (which I'll get to as
soon as I finish casting his NP stock cars) is designed with a
pocket between the floor and the underframe to accommodate a flat
weight. Designing a kit to accept extra weight is much better than
leaving it up to the modeler to figure out down the line.

Tom Madden






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Re: MT Flat Cars in a Train

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

In regard to placement of empty cars in trains, this is also from the
modern day period. It was a practice in the Penn Central and Conrail
period that empty TTX flats (also known as bare tables) were not placed
in the head or center portion of the train. This was due to derailments
caused by trailing loaded cars behind them literally pulled the empty
89' flats off the rails on curves or would "pop" them out of the train
when an emergency brake application occurred.

I wonder whether this situation of empty vs. loaded cars and their
train position placement also occurred during the early intermodal
period between 1950 and 1960.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Denis F. Blake wrote:

Let me chime in here if I may with regard to how cars are distributed in
trains. The era is off a bit as this is from my experience from modern day
railroading working as a conductor for NS.

On my district we have no restrictions on how trains are built except for
the placement of dangerous cars with regard to the head end of the train.
There is no restriction on where empty flats and some of the percieved
lighter can can be place. I have had flat cars on the head end of the train
and Schnabel cars on the rear. Some cars, such as the Schnabel do have
placement restrictions noted on the wheel report. It is very common today
to have "sinkers" on the rear of the train. Trains are not built with
placement of weight being a concern. Blocking of cars for some of the
trains is the most important thing.

On loaded unit grain trains there can be NO MTs in the train at all. An
emergency application of the brakes could lead to these cars being thrown
from the train. The same is true for loaded unit coal trains as well. For
that matter of fact it is true for most loaded single commodity trains.

Sorry to have digressed from the steam era of this list but I thought that
perhaps some folks would be interested in how this matter is handled in the
real world of modern railroading.

Denis Blake

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MT Flat Cars in a Train




On May 26, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Mike Brock wrote:


This issue surfaced rather unpleasantly several yrs ago on the
STMFC. Since
then, I have been rather curious about the placement of MTs on trains,
particularly with regard to flat cars. I have found many cases of
obviously
MT flat cars on or near the head end. Taking a look at the light
weight of
flat cars in our period, I note that the UP F-50-11 weighed 47500
lbs MT. UP
40 ft box cars weighed from 36900 to 45600 lbs MT...most in the
42000 area.
The UP H-70-1 3 bay hopper had a light weight of 44900 lbs while
the HK-50-4
hopper weighed 44800 lbs. The problem, of course, is...if it were
desireable
to place MT's on the rear, what would one do when the entire train
contains
MT's...and it did happen and not infrequently.

Excellent point, and you've answered the question <VBG> you put the
heavier empties (flat cars) in front, or rather, the lightest cars in
back. I too have seen photos of empty flats near the head end as
well, but as you note, that may be a train of empties. Mostly
though, this is going to relate to specific train handling rules for
specific locations... might be very different on a flat straight RR
from a curvy hilly one.

I have noted that PRR practice was to always put heavy loads on the
front end, and lighter cars on the tail end. In the case of a train
of loads with empty flats, they would then be at the rear, but ...

All bets are off about rules. A friend of mine used to work for
Seaboard and he described a great situation to me whereby management
decided to reduce switching moves by changing the order of cars on
the trains in his division. Suddenly trains in one direction kept
stalling, and in the other, they kept breaking apart. The whole
problem was weigh distribution - in this case insisting on adding too
many cars of "rock" to the tail end.

The rules aren't absolute either - it may not be that the empties
have to be the last cars, but say, in the last 20 cars and it may be
that a limited number of empties could go in front of loads.

And of course there is the issue of odd loads. There's that "empty"
idler flat hooked up to the heaviest load on the train! Of course,
the last one I saw was hunting like an hound dog! I swear I saw
daylight every 3 seconds under the wheels!!



The problem in that case is
that the train of MT's might have as much train resistance as one with
loads.

Or more if you figure starting resistance, because the train of
empties has more cars, and therefor more bearings.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
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Re: Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Westerfield wrote:
The photo is the AC&F builders photo. This is the only series of cars to my knowledge that was built in quantity with Van Dorn ends. As I recall (I looked it up many years ago) there were 300. There were 25 XLs with the end. SP had at least one B-50-4 with the end (pictured in a Cyc - 1916?) and MILW had at least one - I have a photo. I've been intending to do the end for several years. In fact I had decals made for the XL but always seem to run out of time.
The SP car was shown in the 1912 CBD and I am pretty sure there was only one of them. It will, of course, be covered in my Volume 4.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Interesting IC boxcar 162099 photo

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

The photo is the AC&F builders photo. This is the only series of cars to my knowledge that was built in quantity with Van Dorn ends. As I recall (I looked it up many years ago) there were 300. There were 25 XLs with the end. SP had at least one B-50-4 with the end (pictured in a Cyc - 1916?) and MILW had at least one - I have a photo. I've been intending to do the end for several years. In fact I had decals made for the XL but always seem to run out of time. - Al Westerfield


Re: Erie 44' Hopper Conversions

Schuyler Larrabee
 

They might make an interesting project for Al Westefield...
Jace Kahn

Oooo, now THERE's an idea. Al?

SGL


Re: Chicago & Western Indiana freight cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Paul Hillman wrote:
Anyone know of any photos/info for C&WI freight cars?
Well, Paul, from the 1935 ORER, I can offer you the entire listing . . .

Line 1
Type RB "Ice" No's 1450 to 1455,
Inside: L 35'-8", W 7'-9", H 6'-2.5" (yes, six feet)
Outside: L 36'-10", W 9'-4" H (from rail), 12'-4" Doors 4'-6"
1704 CF, 5,000 lb

Line 2
Type GDA, H&B Ballast No's 800 to 1399
Inside: L 37'-7", W 8'-6", H 3'
Outside: L 40'. W 9'-1", H (to running board) 4', (from rail) 6'-7"
CF 985, 100000 lb.

Passenger Equipment
MCB: "BA" Baggage No 1, 74' long, one only

MCB: "CA" Coach & Baggage, No 2, seats 30, 74' long, one only

MCB: "PA" Coach, No 15, seats 100, 74' long, one only

MCB: "PB" Coach, Nos 86-388, seats 72, 60' long, eight thus.

11 total passenger cars.

SGL


Re: GATX Tank Car

sdrobatschewsky
 

Thanks for the response Richard and Tony! The tank cars were not SP
cars. My guess is that they were built by ACF, and the only markings I
could see in my pictures were GATX, 10,000 Gallons, and the first digit
of the car number 5. According to the 1959 ORER, GATX had cars in the
5xxxxx number series and they were 10,000 gals. The ORER didn't
indicate the builders as far as I can tell. The tank shell is made from
3 horizontal sections with a row of rivets at the very top, and rows on
the lower sides. I thought the 4 bands (each end and on each side of
the single dome) would narrow down the builder. My best guess as to
length of side sheets is 28' even though models like Intermoutain's is
33'. Hope this helps to identify the builder!

152981 - 153000 of 194745