Date   

Re: Roofwalks on Southern PS-1 boxcars

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Mark,

AFAIK, all PS-1s had steel running boards, regardless of roads. I believe they were required to be steel on all new construction by that time.


Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Mark Heiden wrote:

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know what style of steel roofwalk was used on Southern 40' PS-1 boxcars in the series 23487-26486, 3,000 cars built in 1948?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: PRR Freight Car Color (was PRR BOXCAR RED)

armprem
 

A couple of my earliest resin models are showing signs of paint
blistering.Obviously they were not thoroughly cleaned to remove all the mold
release medium. Any ideas on how one would go about stripping a resin
model ?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 5:35 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR Freight Car Color (was PRR BOXCAR RED)


Bill Keene asked:
"I am about ready to apply paint to a Tichy X26 50-ton USRA single
sheathed box car and as this is my first PRR freight car modeling
effort (hard to believe with over 25 years of modeling) I find that
I
am not sure as to what paint color PRR Boxcar Red might be. Can
someone offer suggestions, formulas, etc?"

Some manufacturers aren't sure either! ;-)

What shade to use depends on when the car was repainted. Generally,
cars painted before 1945 were a more orange shade of Freight Car
Color. In the late 1940s, changes in the paint formula resuled in a
darker shade.

My preferences in Polly Scale is Zinc Chromate Primer for the pre-
1945 FCC, and Special Oxide Red for the post-1945 FCC. Other
listers will chime in with what works best with other paint brands.

Whatever you do, don't paint your model any paint labeled "Tuscan
Red." Pennsy modelers may not agree on what's the correct shade of
FCC, but they'll agree on that point.


Ben Hom






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Re: PRR Freight Car Color (was PRR BOXCAR RED)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill Keene asked:
"I am about ready to apply paint to a Tichy X26 50-ton USRA single
sheathed box car and as this is my first PRR freight car modeling
effort (hard to believe with over 25 years of modeling) I find that
I
am not sure as to what paint color PRR Boxcar Red might be. Can
someone offer suggestions, formulas, etc?"

Some manufacturers aren't sure either! ;-)

What shade to use depends on when the car was repainted. Generally,
cars painted before 1945 were a more orange shade of Freight Car
Color. In the late 1940s, changes in the paint formula resuled in a
darker shade.

My preferences in Polly Scale is Zinc Chromate Primer for the pre-
1945 FCC, and Special Oxide Red for the post-1945 FCC. Other
listers will chime in with what works best with other paint brands.

Whatever you do, don't paint your model any paint labeled "Tuscan
Red." Pennsy modelers may not agree on what's the correct shade of
FCC, but they'll agree on that point.


Ben Hom


PRR BOXCAR RED

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello all,

I am about ready to apply paint to a Tichy X26 50-ton USRA single sheather box car and as this is my first PRR freight car modeling effort (hard to believe with over 25 years of modeling) I find that I am not sure as to what paint color PRR Boxcar Red might be. Can someone offer suggestions, formulas, etc?

Thanks,
-- Bill Keene


Re: 40' fishbelly gondolas

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Ben,

Lots of stuff to stuff into a 40-foot gon. Thanks for the ideas. Must
add a couple of these cars to the collection.

-- Bill Keene

On Jun 23, 2005, at 7:44 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

William Keene asked:
"Just wonder what would have been shipped from the Northeast to say...
Tulsa, Okla. The railroad rail load is a good possibility. But nobody
is going to haul sand to Tulsa... just too much of it for the taking
along and in the Arkansas River."

A few sample gon loads from the Northeast to Tulsa could be:

- Other steel shapes or plates
- Structural assemblies (i.e., trusses)
- Petroleum equipment that won't fit inside a boxcar
- Architectural stone (marble, granite, etc.)
- Crated machinery


Ben Hom




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Starwood Scale Rivet kit

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Jim, your comments have me intrigued. Is the idea to apply the droplets after painting the model? I would have guessed that an acrylic drop would need a coat of paint over the surface to add resilience to handling. It strikes me that at best, such drops are only effective for masters for casting?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Georgia & Florida Pulpwood flat & DECALS

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill Keene wrote:
"THE USUAL WARNING CONCERNING OLDER WALTHERS DECAL SETS... Please
expand on this statement for those of us too old to remember said
warning."

The accuracy of many earlier Walthers decal sets is spotty, with
errors particularly in lettering styles, size, dimensional data, and
lettering diagrams. That being said, some of these sets are the
still the only game in town for certain road names and paint schemes
such as this Georgia & Florida set. In this case, your best bet is
to check the decal set against a prototype photo, use the best
graphics from the set, and replace any inaccurate car data or
reporting marks with material from another set.

To give Walthers credit where credit is due, the last sets issued
before they went out of the decal business in the early 1990s were
very well done and easily on par with contemporary Champ sets (ex:
934-77150, PRR Class X26 USRA SS boxcar; 934-35230, C&O blue and
yellow 1958 Chessie Cat herald).


Ben Hom


Re: 40' fishbelly gondolas

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

William Keene asked:
"Just wonder what would have been shipped from the Northeast to say...
Tulsa, Okla. The railroad rail load is a good possibility. But nobody
is going to haul sand to Tulsa... just too much of it for the taking
along and in the Arkansas River."

A few sample gon loads from the Northeast to Tulsa could be:

- Other steel shapes or plates
- Structural assemblies (i.e., trusses)
- Petroleum equipment that won't fit inside a boxcar
- Architectural stone (marble, granite, etc.)
- Crated machinery


Ben Hom


Re: 40' fishbelly gondolas

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Ben, Bruce, Elden,

Thank you for your responses and comments. Much appreciated.

The reasons for the question is that these are interesting looking cars
and I tend to prefer shorter cars on small layouts. Just wonder what
would have been shipped from the Northeast to say... Tulsa, Okla. The
railroad rail load is a good possibility. But nobody is going to haul
sand to Tulsa... just too much of it for the taking along and in the
Arkansas River.

Again, thanks,
-- Bill Keene

On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:29 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Bill Keene asked:
"What would have been the service for such a short gon? [NYC lots 507-
G, 508-G, 509-G, 519-G, 526-G, 527-G, 528-G, 529-G, and 573-G.] And
would that service include interchange with those roads in the Middle
West Country?"

With an IL of 41 ft 6 in, these gons aren't overly short at all.
They would have been used for typical gon loads; additionally, those
with drop doors would have been used in coal and other mineral
service.  I don't see why they wouldn't have been interchaged as any
other Northeastern gon.

Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of these cars, but I haven't
really looked yet.  I'll have to add this one to the research list,
as I do think that this would be a worthwhile project for a resin
manufacturer.


Ben Hom




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Re: Georgia & Florida Pulpwood flat & DECALS

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Ben

THE USUAL WARNING CONCERNING OLDER WALTHERS DECAL SETS... Please expand
on this statement for those of us too old to remember said warning.

Thanks,
-- Bill Keene

On Jun 23, 2005, at 3:18 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Matt Strickland wrote:
"Also does anyone know where I can get Georgia & Florida DECALS?"

I replied:
"The only Georgia & Florida HO scale decal set that I know of is a
Walthers general freight car set that is long out of production. 
I'll post the stock number after I get home from work tonight."

There were actually two Walthers HO scale decal sets.
The "Combination Freight, Steam Era" set is 934-45001.  Walthers
also had a set lettering the green with white stripe and "Fast
Dependable Service" heralds for the Georgia & Florida 50 ft PS-1,
old stock number 45-11.  Unfortunately, they sized this for a 40 ft
boxcar.  The good news is that this set includes older reporting
marks and heralds, including the triangle herald.  (The usual
warning concerning older Walthers decal sets applies.) Both sets are
out of production; keep your eyes open on eBay, as Walthers decal
sets turn up regularly there.


Ben Hom




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Live Poultry Cars

gary laakso
 

I have a couple of Overland Models to paint. Does anyone have any suggestions on painting and handling the screens and where to obtain decals?

gary laakso
vasa0vasa@...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


Roofwalks on Southern PS-1 boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know what style of steel roofwalk was used on Southern 40'
PS-1 boxcars in the series 23487-26486, 3,000 cars built in 1948?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: C&IM hoppers offline?

rrhistorian
 

Hello all,

I have several photographs of two 50-ton twin-bay cars that are owned
by the Illinois Railway Musuem but are stored off site pending
fundraising to pay for their movement and track space. They are rare
survivors as I only know of a few cars of this type remaining anywhere.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~tcornill/Historic_Railway_Equipment.html

In addition to photographs, I also have several links to other
information about shipping coal and scans of Equipment Register
listings for the C&IM.

Tom Cornillie


Re: Live Poultry Cars

rrhistorian
 

Hello all,

Does anybody know if any of these cars survive in any form? Perhaps
as a stationary chicken coop somewhere?

Tom Cornillie


Re: double sheathed & single sheathed - most common in the early 1950s???

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

The number of cars originally built was very close; 25,000 for single
sheathed, 24,500 for double sheathed.
And for those keeping score, the "missing" 500 double-sheathed boxes were built as FEC 17001-17500 ventilators by SSC in May 1920 (see Westerfield #6300s).

David Thompson


NMRA Cincinnati

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

We will be launching a series of NYC stock cars built in 1921 and running into the 1960s at the convention. A photo showing the preliminary model with final decals is now up on our web site www.westerfield.biz . If I get all the work done, 3 versions will be available: original, modernized and AB brakes with 3 different decal sets. As usual, if you want me to bring a particular older kit, let me know no later than July 4th. - Al Westerfield


Re: Live Poultry Cars, and other animal stories

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Fred and all;
Aside from all the issues with conning someone into being the poor
person that had to do this kind of duty, the folks I know that were
there said that the PRR would offer a substantial time-off bonus for
anyone that would go under a stock car or animal rendering car to repair
them. I remember well my experiences with repairing cars in the
wintertime in PA, and having blocks of slush drop off and go down my
clothing. Can you imagine working on an AB valve under a car dripping
animal wastes? I think my freight cars look a little too clean, now
that I think about it!

The story about the offal gons is interesting, but the story I remember
hearing in person was the one in which the guys in charge of the yard
would purposely put the gons used in that service that came into the
yard on ANY kind of train leaving town, just so they didn't have to
smell the darn things anymore. Given that their service was dedicated
(using a fairly water-tight steel-floored, and just about dead gondola),
you have to wonder how these things were regarded by anyone required to
see to their movement or care. Eeesh.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Fred in Vt.
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Live Poultry Cars

Art,

A man was located in the center of these cars? Must have missed
that one; then again it may be a senior moment. Can't imagine how it
was done without a respirator!!
Had the opportunity to watch a man wake up a 40' truck load of
chickens; the screaming and the smell were overwhelming!! He was
covered from hair to shoe. It's no wonder these cars came & went in a
short time. Like the part about keeping them flying!! If that was all
that flew.
I now have a greater respect for train crew members. And we
thought the "animal parts" in an open gond was a wretched smell?

Fred Freitas [fried, without feathers, thank you]
----- Original Message -----
From: montydogsdad2
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Live Poultry Cars


--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
> Capacity depends on whether the chickens are roosting or
flying . . . . its
> more if you bang on the side of the car every mile or so and keep
'em
> flying.
>
> Seriously, the cars could carry as many as 800 to 1200 live birds
per deck,
> depending on weight/size. This is serious crowding of the birds, but
> considering how they are kept, likely well tolerated. Some poultry
cars had
> four or more decks, though three decks were common. You are correct
-
these
> were very interesting cars that had to stink in an interesting way,
too.


Thanx Tom,

Stink is an understatement. The guy that had to ride in the middle
compartment to service this whole mess, must have had a very short
lifespan. With all the possible deseases that one might encounter.

At any rate, thanx for the info.

Art Griffin




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Re: Live Poultry Cars

Larry Grubb <larry450sl@...>
 

Art,
The expert on live poultry cars is Al Hoffman, he gave a clinic at Naperville on the subject two years ago. Contact me off-list and I can give you his phone (He is not on the net). Contrary to popular belief, Al has many photos of these cars in multiples, and sometimes unit trains of only poultry cars. So you will probably need more than one.
Regards,
Larry Grubb

montydogsdad2 <artgriffindecals@...> wrote:
Grp,

Anyone know the Chicken capacity in total birds of the Live Poultry
Cars of the 1900-1930s? I have seen at least 3 photos of these cars in
service with the birds visible thru the mesh. Very interesting cars.

Art Griffin





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Re: Live Poultry Cars

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Art,

A man was located in the center of these cars? Must have missed that one; then again it may be a senior moment. Can't imagine how it was done without a respirator!!
Had the opportunity to watch a man wake up a 40' truck load of chickens; the screaming and the smell were overwhelming!! He was covered from hair to shoe. It's no wonder these cars came & went in a short time. Like the part about keeping them flying!! If that was all that flew.
I now have a greater respect for train crew members. And we thought the "animal parts" in an open gond was a wretched smell?

Fred Freitas [fried, without feathers, thank you]

----- Original Message -----
From: montydogsdad2
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Live Poultry Cars


--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
> Capacity depends on whether the chickens are roosting or
flying . . . . its
> more if you bang on the side of the car every mile or so and keep 'em
> flying.
>
> Seriously, the cars could carry as many as 800 to 1200 live birds
per deck,
> depending on weight/size. This is serious crowding of the birds, but
> considering how they are kept, likely well tolerated. Some poultry
cars had
> four or more decks, though three decks were common. You are correct -
these
> were very interesting cars that had to stink in an interesting way,
too.


Thanx Tom,

Stink is an understatement. The guy that had to ride in the middle
compartment to service this whole mess, must have had a very short
lifespan. With all the possible deseases that one might encounter.

At any rate, thanx for the info.

Art Griffin




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Re: double sheathed & single sheathed - most common in the early 1950s???

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Matt Strickland wrote:
"i think we seem to have reached a stalemate re the percentages."

Tim Gilbert replied:
"Stalemate? "Unknown" would be a more proper answer."

Matt, be advised that the information that you're asking for requires
a considerable amount to time to compile, analyze, and present.
Developing the picture that you're asking for requires analyzing one
of the 1953 ORER issues. To do this, each railroad's boxcar fleet
needs to be broken down by car type and tabulated. This is not a
straightforward task, as the railroads didn't characterize cars
by "1937 AAR boxcar" or "1923 ARA SS boxcar." Instead, cars are
listed with descriptions as "Box, Steel" or "Box, Stl. Underframe".
Even the roads who organized their car fleets by classes didn't use
them in the ORER listings - fortunately, the one notable exception
was the PRR. (This made breaking down their huge fleet much
easier.) To do a proper analysis requires pulling in knowledge from
multiple sources (builder's data, photos, prior research, etc.) to
break down the entries and identify car types. Trying to determine
car type by dimesions alone can be very misleading.

When Tim Gilbert says the percentages are "unknown", he's not being
flippant - he really means that they haven't been analyzed yet for
1953. All of the tools are available to do this - it's just that it
hasn't been done yet. The fleet data that Tim, Dave Nelson, John
Nehrich, Bruce Smith, myself, and others reflect other years besides
1953, and represent a sizable investment in time and effort. Those
answers come quickly because the analysis has already been done.
Asking for an fast, accurate answer when the analysis hasn't been
started just can't be done and is simply an unreasonable request.

That being said, I don't want to paint the picture that it's an
impossible task. As I said, the tools are out there - you just have
to know where to find the information.

The first thing that I recommend that you do is to obtain a copy of
the 1953 ORER Reprint from the NMRA Kalmbach Memorial Library ($26.95
members, $36.95 non-members, available on-line from the NMRA Company
Store.)
http://www.rrhistorical.com/NMRA_Store/Store_Entrance.html

Once you do that, then we can show you how to go about doing this.


Ben Hom

152261 - 152280 of 194714