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Re: Roco insolvency

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

In the flat car thread, there has been reference to Roco and its vast military inventory of military models. Of course, Roco has also made a limited number of fine models for the American market over the years (notably the 2-8-8-2). Several days ago, Roco declared insolvency, leaving one plant unaffected.

There is more to this, as you might imagine.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony Thompson wrote

. . . I have a beautiful shot of PRR F29 #70008 on the SP in Los Angeles
in 1957 and see no reason why modeling such a load shouldn't be pursued
just because it was uncommon.
Indeed, there's no reason not to model ANYTHING just because it
was uncommon. But if one chooses to model very many uncommon things,
the combination is a deadly foe to realistic modeling. After all, even
in modeling, "uncommon" had better mean exactly that.
Tony, no one said to model "very many" uncommon things. But a depressed center
flat car carrying a transformer was seen on a regular, if not daily, basis on
most any railroad mainline near urban areas (or between them) in the 1950's.
It was NOT unusual, but it was a very small percentage of car loads. People
who model only statistically commonplace items also suffer from a lack of
realism, since their operations can't convey the "AHH-factor" of delight that
one almost always experienced at trackside when you watch a bunch of trains
and see something special like a big transformer load or another uncommon
freight car. YMMV as they say.

65 foot mill gondolas were uncommon too, as you have argued in the past. But
I didn't hear anyone here griping that Athearn is producing a useless model!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Flat Car models in general (long)

Larry Kline
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:
While I am not prepared to defend statistically the notion that foreign
general service flat cars would appear in the proportion of what the
foreign road owned of the national total as I can for boxcars, the
elements which were present for boxcars are quite similar to the ones
for general service flats.

On June 16, 2002 Dave Nelson posted the counts below for the top 22
owners of FM and FMS flat cars. They accounted for 80% of the North
American fleet in the 10-04 ORER. There are only 4 flat car photos in
the NMRA Charles collection so they certainly don't represent a
statistically useful sample. Nevertheless, its interesting to note that
the three RRs represented are CNW, PRR and MILW, all photographed in
Harrisburg, PA. (The 4th flat car in the collection is an old B&O flat
car in MOW service.)

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

road total Pct. Cum Pct.
SP 5448 9.67% 9.67%
CN 4743 8.42% 18.10%
CP 4199 7.46% 25.55%
CNW 3412 6.06% 31.61%
PRR 2952 5.24% 36.85%
MILW 2904 5.16% 42.01%
UP 2857 5.07% 47.09%
GN 2368 4.21% 51.29%
ATSF 2180 3.87% 55.16%
NP 1869 3.32% 58.48%
IC 1520 2.70% 61.18%
SOU 1474 2.62% 63.80%
NYC 1356 2.41% 66.20%
CBQ 1341 2.38% 68.59%
RI 1250 2.22% 70.81%
LN 1162 2.06% 72.87%
EJE 902 1.60% 74.47%
MP 794 1.41% 75.88%
ACL 738 1.31% 77.19%
SAL 581 1.03% 78.22%
SOO 548 0.97% 79.20%
SLSF 473 0.84% 80.04%


Re: depressed flats

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:


On Jul 14, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Dean Payne wrote:

Doesn't Eastern Car Works make a depressed center flat? IIRC, it is
good for the PRR.
Yes and NO!

The ECW car represents a 36', 90 ton Commonwealth casting that was sold to a number of railroads, but definitely not the PRR. Owners of this car included the NYC and B&A), New Haven, and Southern (and C of G). NYC cars did get lettered for PC.
Bruce,

B&M's four Depressed Flats #5100-5103 should also be included. They also were Commonwealth Steel castings using the same mold as the NYC, B&A, NH and SOU. The #5100's were assembled in B&M's Concord Shops in 1941, and had 100 ton trucks as did the others. The braking systems used, however, limited the GRL to 238,000 pounds vs. the 251,000 pound GRL's of the others.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Specialized Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:


Tim Gilbert writes:

Shawn, I agree with you that Depressed Center Flats were much ado about
virtually nothing. Only 14 roads owned the 139 cars.
OTOH, if a product requiring an FD needed to be shipped, such a car would
have to be acquired from some place. So...given that many such products were
produced in the more industrial northeast or midwest [ Illinois, Ohio,
Michigan in this case ], such products moving to the west coast might be
found on any major RR between the originating plant and the destination.
Hence, FD's would certainly qualify for long distance off line travels.
True, one of these things wouldn't be seen often...but they would be seen.
Mike,

In all my parsings of UP Freight Conductor Wheel Reports including those from 1941, 1942, 1947 and 1956 - each reporting well over 1,000 cars, there is not one depressed center flat. One of the reasons for the lack of "FD" sightings may be that some of them required special handling in extra trains designated "high and wide" (& slow). The same statement could be said for the movement of Well Hole Flats ("FW"), Heavy Duty Flats with more than four axles, and Gun Flats ("FG").

I wonder if any of the sightings of these specialized flats were in the consist of a moving train (switchers excepted). If so, what were the other car types in those trains?

From what I can gather, such specialized flats were usually assigned to a specific plant, and when the cars were unloaded, they were returned empty to that plant. They were not "free rollers." When a plant produced an object that required "high & wide" treatment which did not have any cars assigned, the originating road (& plant) had to scramble to find an appropriate car.

Tim Gilbert


CofG 10' high, 50', door & 1/2 boxcars

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

There is a great deal of interest in a model of this car building on
the CG Yahoo group. Does anyone here have any suggestions as to an
available 10' high 50? It was suggested that a 10' 1937 AAR be
lengthened and produce a urethane door kit for the 4' half door.

My guess is the right way (no pun intended) is a new complete urethane
kit.

Bill McCoy
Jax


Billboard Reefer Book

montydogsdad2 <artgriffindecals@...>
 

I have a few questions.

1) What kind of paper will be used? As I have discussed with Tony
Thompson in the past, personally I am willing to pay the extra money
to have slick paper. As the White books were printed. But other more
pulp paper books are usually bought, viewed and then given away. I
usually buy the book for it's photos as opposed to historical or
informational purposes.

2) Will there be new photos, not the same re-hashed photos like the
50 ft. Ivory soap car photo that has appeared in many articles and
publications.

3) When is the book expected to be available?

Thanx.

Art Griffin

http://www.greatdecals.com/Griffin.htm "Where Every Order Is A
Custom Order!"


SOO box, in search of

mopacfirst
 

Anybody know where I can find one or two of the Des Plaines 10' IH boxcars
that were custom-made by Red Caboose and now no longer available?
Specifically, I'm looking for a SOO car with billboard lettering.

Contact me off-list at ron.merrick@....

Ron Merrick

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Re: Monon Bucyrus crane

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Gene and others:

From the railroad records, photos, my notes as well as from personal
recollections I can tell you that during the late steam era the Monon
operated two heavy steam wreckers. They were originally numbered S.W.D.
(Steam Wreck Derrick?) 1 and S.W.D. 3. Some time around the end of WW
II they were renumbered X-1 and X-3 respectively. Another renumbering
occurred in the late 1950's when the received numbers 80001 and 80003
respectively as part of a general renumbering of non-revenue rolling
stock at that time.

Both derricks were steam powered Bucyrus-Erie units built in 1912 and
1929 respectively. Derrick #1 weighed 210,000 lbs and had a main hoist
capacity of 100T. Derrick #3 weighed 237,000 lbs with a main hoist
capacity of 150T. Derrick 1 rode on arch bar trucks with friction type
bearings. Derrick #3 had cast steel side frame trucks that looked a lot
like the Andrews design with roller type bearings.

Both units were painted black and usually had white lettering of the
style currently in use by the railroad so there were quite a few changes
over the years. During the period that the railroad was painting
freight cars black with yellow lettering at least one of the derricks
received these colors. Reflective end striping was also used in later
years.

Both wreckers made it to 1971 and the L&N merger, but because they were
old and steam powered did not last long after that. I'm not sure of
their final disposition.

Photos seem to verify that SWD 1 was kept at Shops (Lafayette, IN) and
SWD 3 at McDoel (Bloomington, IN). Naturally whey were used for
clearing wrecks, but were also called out for bridge and other heavy
work along with their support cars. I've seen photos of them being used
in earlier years by the Stores Department for handling bundles of axles.

The Monon also operated a Locomotive Crane that I've always known as
LC-2. It weighed 109,000 lbs with a maximum lifting capacity of 42,800
lbs. It was built by the Browning Co. in 1916 and explains why there
was not an SWD 2, it being LC-2 instead. The last time I saw it it had
a diesel engine radiator sticking out of it so you can guess the rest.

Within the past three years the Monon Society's THE HOOSIER LINE ran an
article on these cars written by George Lortz. It was much more
informative that what I have written here and had a number of very
interesting photos. Contact me off line if you would like more
information on this issue of THL or Monon Society membership.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
bierglaeser
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Monon Bucyrus crane

I recently acquired a small photo that shows a MONON Bucyrus crane, the
kind with the 'fishbelly' side sills & arch bar trucks. According to
the information available to me this was Bucyrus serial number 182
delivered in May or June 1912. The crane had a 100-ton capacity.

Is the foregoing correct? Did the Monon number this crane? If yes,
what number? When was it retired? What color was it painted? My
photo show the crane lettered "MONON" along the bottom edge of the
cab. Approximately when would or could this lettering have been first
applied?
Thanks in advance to all who have info and respond.
Gene Green





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Molco roofs and roof parts

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

It's amazing what correct spelling does. Thanks

Bill McCoy

--- In STMFC@..., "Jim and Lisa Hayes"
<jimandlisa97225@v...> wrote:
Walthers carries them. Enter 'Moloco' in the search field and you'll
see all
his products. I just did.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

armprem
 

For what it is worth,M.Dale Newton AKA Red Ball.had several flats in his
line including a well-hole flat ,a Pennsy-depressed center flat and a
shorter version flat.F&C has several flats in their line including a odd B&M

flat.Armand Premo--- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER


Mike Brock wrote

Shawn, I agree with you that Depressed Center Flats were much ado about
virtually nothing. Only 14 roads owned the 139 cars.
OTOH, if a product requiring an FD needed to be shipped, such a car would
have to be acquired from some place. So...given that many such products
were
produced in the more industrial northeast or midwest [ Illinois, Ohio,
Michigan in this case ], such products moving to the west coast might be
found on any major RR between the originating plant and the destination.
Hence, FD's would certainly qualify for long distance off line travels.
True, one of these things wouldn't be seen often...but they would be
seen.


Not only seen, but when loaded they are often spectacular, which explains
why railfans were fond of taking pictures of them. I have a beautiful shot
of PRR F29 #70008 on the SP in Los Angeles in 1957 and see no reason why
modeling such a load shouldn't be pursued just because it was uncommon.


Tim O.





Yahoo! Groups Links








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Depressed flats

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Whilst on the subject of "depressed flats", would anyone know who built CB&Q's sole example #91875 in 1958 (72' 3" IL, 10' wide, 300000 lb max, with 4 four-wheel trucks)

Thanks

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
. . . I have a beautiful shot
of PRR F29 #70008 on the SP in Los Angeles in 1957 and see no reason why
modeling such a load shouldn't be pursued just because it was uncommon.
Indeed, there's no reason not to model ANYTHING just because it was uncommon. But if one chooses to model very many uncommon things, the combination is a deadly foe to realistic modeling. After all, even in modeling, "uncommon" had better mean exactly that.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

Shawn, I agree with you that Depressed Center Flats were much ado about
virtually nothing. Only 14 roads owned the 139 cars.
OTOH, if a product requiring an FD needed to be shipped, such a car would
have to be acquired from some place. So...given that many such products were
produced in the more industrial northeast or midwest [ Illinois, Ohio,
Michigan in this case ], such products moving to the west coast might be
found on any major RR between the originating plant and the destination.
Hence, FD's would certainly qualify for long distance off line travels.
True, one of these things wouldn't be seen often...but they would be seen.

Not only seen, but when loaded they are often spectacular, which explains
why railfans were fond of taking pictures of them. I have a beautiful shot
of PRR F29 #70008 on the SP in Los Angeles in 1957 and see no reason why
modeling such a load shouldn't be pursued just because it was uncommon.


Tim O.


abarsive blasters

Mike Barone <mike_barone@...>
 

I've had considerable experience with these in recent years. Even though I use a Badger unit, the air supply from an ordinary hobby size compressor is insufficient. It is necessary to obtain a unit capable of about 4 cfm at 40 psi. (Most hobby compressors are about 1/2 cfm at 25 psi.) A decent compressor can be bought at most hardware or tool supply store. Get one with a pressure regulator and at least a 2 gal. tank. You may wish to add to it a about 10' to 15' of copper piping, coiled, to form a cooler and a moisture trap such as those that can be found in the Walthers catalogue. This last is essential since any moisture will cause clogging.
Also get a shop vac to evacuate the air and keep the booth under negative pressure. A cheap Sear one will do. If your booth doesn't have a connection for this, you can make one and bolt it over an existing vent on the booth. Note that this vent must also have a filter to prevent all the grit from being sucked out into the shop vac. And for further protection, use one of those dust filters available at hardware stores.
Hope this helps.
Mike Barone


Flat car models

Richard Townsend
 

There also is a long flat produced by Frateschi of Brazil. It has a deck that measures 61 feet, and fishbelly sides with 17 stake pockets. I picked one up at Timonium recently to see what could be done with it. Someone once told me it could be a stand-in for some unspecified series of NYC flats, but I have not been able to determine which it might be. No matter what, the deck would have to be replaced as it seems to represent an all-metal welded deck or some such thing. Also, no rivets on the sides. It comes with interesting roller bearing trucks that seem to follow a 70-ton prototype.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


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Re: walking on top of a train

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: walking on top of a train

Fred Freitas wrote:
was it possible to bleed off air by means of a control
valve on the caboose, which in turn would sound an alarm,
or warning
device in the cab? I'm thinking of the emergency chord
found in early
Pullmans, only different application.
Would that be a major or minor chord?

Tony Thompson
Depends on the seriousness of the situation . . .

SGL


depressed centre flats

Mike Barone <mike_barone@...>
 

Regarding the CP flats, of the 2 groups of cars of which I know, neither had Buckeye trucks, 1 had 2 - 2 axel AAR trucks while the other had 4 trucks.
Mike Barone


Flat Car models in general (long)

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

For the record, there are a couple of other resin flat car models to consider:

the Norwest kit of the C.P. 336260 Series Flat Car http://www.promodelbuilders.com/norwest/nw-105.htm which is a nicely detailed kit (with superb decals available from BlackCat). These have straight side sills.

and

the (former Point One now) Kaslo Shops CNR B-1 and B-2 cars (which are lovely). These have the fish belly side sills http://www.kasloshops.com/point1models.htm

Any place on the continent that had a need for Canadian lumber can justify Canadian flat cars - a surprising number of the photos I've seen are taken in USA locations!

In fact, I'm looking for more photos of Canadian flat cars. On the CPR side we have a fairly extensive collection of drawings at the CP SIG web library http://www.cpsig.ca/, but it is taking me quite a while to sort out what drawings match which cars, and then to find good photos in each class - surprisingly hard for some car classes.

On another note, I am surprised there is not more talk about scratch building flat cars. I have started a couple of CPR flats following some of the drawings and they are a relatively simple car to model. On one I borrowed some Accurail fishbelly centre sills and some Tichy bolsters, stake pockets and K brake gear. Not perfect, but with some modifications, its coming along OK. The big step remaining is shaving off Athearn rivets and gluing them on. Is anyone else going this route?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Flat Car models in general (long)

Eric
 

Scott wrote:

"I was just looking at the B&O Color Guide which "shows" a depressed center flat-- well, I can't SEE
anything in the shadows but SOMETHING must be holding up the load! I guess no decals would be
needed on that one..."

Have you tried using a photo editing program on it? I'm always surprised at the level of detail that
pops out just from fiddling with the brightness/contrast function of the cheap no name bundled PE
programs that came with my computer.

Eric Petersson


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