Date   

Re: abrasive blasters

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 14, 2005, at 10:12 PM, Mike Barone wrote:

I've had considerable experience with these in recent years. Even though I use a Badger unit, the air supply from an ordinary hobby size compressor is insufficient. It is necessary to obtain a unit capable of about 4 cfm at 40 psi. (Most hobby compressors are about 1/2 cfm at 25 psi.) A decent compressor can be bought at most hardware or tool supply store. Get one with a pressure regulator and at least a 2 gal. tank. You may wish to add to it a about 10' to 15' of copper piping, coiled, to form a cooler and a moisture trap such as those that can be found in the Walthers catalogue. This last is essential since any moisture will cause clogging.
You're right that a compressor intended to drive an airbrush won't generate enough pressure/volume. I use a home shop compressor purchased at a big box hardware & building materials store which has enough power to pump up auto tires, supply a big paint spray gun, etc. I haven't found a pressure regulator to be necessary; I just adjust the relief valve on my compressor to get the desired air pressure. Nor do I need a moisture trap; however, I live in a dry climate. If you live in a place that gets a lot of 90+% humidity like Buffalo or Houston, a moisture trap might be desirable or even essential.

Also get a shop vac to evacuate the air and keep the booth under negative pressure. A cheap Sear one will do. If your booth doesn't have a connection for this, you can make one and bolt it over an existing vent on the booth. Note that this vent must also have a filter to prevent all the grit from being sucked out into the shop vac. And for further protection, use one of those dust filters available at hardware stores.
I haven't found any of this to be necessary, either, though breathing through a dust filter is obviously a good precaution. I have a clear plexiglass front on my sandblasting booth in which there are two arm holes with elastic cuffs cut from a cheap nylon jacket, so the abrasive powder can't escape from the booth. Seems a simpler way to confine the abrasive to the booth than what Mike is suggesting, but YMMV.


Re: DL&W USRA Style cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Jim, not so sure on the ends, could be the angle ofthe pictures. I'll agree
with the doors. Of course the DL&W doors could have been replacements since
we are looking at pictures taken about 18 years apart. Builders photo for the
NYC car and a DL&W car reweighed at Keyser Valley in 1947 (can't tell if the
month is a nine or not)

Brian Carlson

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:17:23 -0700, Jim and Lisa Hayes wrote

Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side
sills are different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W
ends are 'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'.


Re: DL&W USRA Style cars

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Hayes wrote:
"Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side sills are
different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W ends are
'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'."

That was my first thought on the ends; however, the Westerfield NYC
Dreadnaught end model photos show an 'outie' end:
http://www.westerfield.biz/it230023.htm

That's why I wanted better end photos before making a definitive call on
these cars.


Ben Hom


Re: DL&W USRA Style cars

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side sills are
different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W ends are
'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: Alburgh Trestle

armprem
 

Question,What color were the Montour hoppers?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Alburgh Trestle


Jace Kahn wrote:
"What struck me (apart from the lone-ranger Clinchfield car, and those
M&StL cars came a long way) was the relatively large number of Montour
hoppers delivering coal; is it possible the Rutland had an
advantageous contract with an operator along the Montour?"

The rest of the data would seem to indicate the Pittsburgh area. As I
posted a few weeks back, I've also been going through Armand's
switchlists and company coal reports (over a slightly broader range,
1947-1951) and have also turned up large numbers of P&LE, PMcK&Y, PRR,
NYC, and B&O hoppers. Still a big stack to go through, so more to
come!


Ben Hom






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Re: Tichy PFE Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Lyons said:
I asked about "best model truck" in hopes of short cutting the
process. With that said, let's see if I can "learn" something prototypical from
this tread. If I know it is an ARA truck, that automatically tells me how the
spring pack is arranged and spaced?
Not necessarily, though there were not many variations for a given tonnage capacity.

If I know it is an ARA truck I know there
is only ONE side frame shape? I ask because the side frame shape of the ARA
U-section side frame truck shown on page 39 of CYC #4 is very different from the
side frame shape of the truck pictured on the car on page 117 of PFE book.
No. If you look in a Cyc for ARA or AAR truck specifications (at the front of the truck section) you will find a set of dimensional parameters to permit interchangeable parts, but NOT a particular truck side frame pattern. Different truck manufacturers DID offer their own (modest) variations on side frame shapes, with different degrees of top curvature, etc. But since many car owners changed out trucks as needed, after a time in service, cars of a particular group (class or part of a class) often would have different trucks from each other.
Big roads (SP is one example) had a list of "okay" or approved truck patterns, called out by pattern number or drawing number (often a supplier drawing), and suppliers of trucks on a car order could supply anything that was approved. There are instances of truck orders being spread over six truck makers for a single boxcar class, with the only proviso being "ARA trucks" or "AAR trucks" to be supplied.
As Richard Hendrickson pointed out in his two articles on freight trucks, we are a long way from having a very full set of model trucks from which to match particular prototypes. But nowadays we can usually come close on sideframe pattern and presence or absence of spring planks, along with some spring package patterns.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: O Scale 1932 Box cars

Charles Morrill <badlands@...>
 

Jonathan,
You might contacting John Clemens, 5273 97 Way N., St. Petersburg, FL 33708-3752. He has a phone listed 727 391 3135 but he has odd hours as I recall so may be difficult to reach.

You could also contact the list members on the Otrains3 and Oscalemodelers yahoo groups.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "marcuj10" <jonathan.marcus@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] O Scale 1932 Box cars


Having purchased the superb Culotta book on these cars during a recent business trip to
the States can anyone tell me where I might get any of the Pacific Limited 1932 steel cars?
I am especially interested in the SAL (non-ventilated) box car and the Nickel Plate versions
but would consider some of the others as well. I'm not sure how many versions PL actually
did. I've looked at the main brass retailers but can't see any at the moment.Thanks
Jonathan



O Scale 1932 Box cars

Jonathan MARCUS
 

Having purchased the superb Culotta book on these cars during a recent business trip to
the States can anyone tell me where I might get any of the Pacific Limited 1932 steel cars?
I am especially interested in the SAL (non-ventilated) box car and the Nickel Plate versions
but would consider some of the others as well. I'm not sure how many versions PL actually
did. I've looked at the main brass retailers but can't see any at the moment.Thanks
Jonathan


Re: Alburgh Trestle

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jace Kahn wrote:
"What struck me (apart from the lone-ranger Clinchfield car, and those
M&StL cars came a long way) was the relatively large number of Montour
hoppers delivering coal; is it possible the Rutland had an
advantageous contract with an operator along the Montour?"

The rest of the data would seem to indicate the Pittsburgh area. As I
posted a few weeks back, I've also been going through Armand's
switchlists and company coal reports (over a slightly broader range,
1947-1951) and have also turned up large numbers of P&LE, PMcK&Y, PRR,
NYC, and B&O hoppers. Still a big stack to go through, so more to
come!


Ben Hom


Re: Life-Like Has Been Sold - To Walthers

vgnry <vgnry212@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Denis F. Blake" <dblake7@c...> wrote:
Nothing would please more than to see Larry Grubb relieved of his
postion in this take over...

I don't know Denis Blake; I will assume he is a decent guy having a
bad night. And I don't know Larry either. But where I come from Denis
owes Larry an apology for going way over the line, and not the Brock
line, either, in a "public" forum.

Bill McClure


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Gene Green writes:

While discussions of 'typical' freight cars, averages, road name
proportions, etc. are interesting they seem mostly pointless to me
when populating one's own model railroad with freight cars.
Well, I think there are several issues. If one wishes to approximate the frt car population on a particular RR that occurred over a long period, say, a year, one might want to use the data available. If one wishes, to approximate a particular area or division of a specific RR, more attention to the traffic characteristics of the region seems warranted. If one wishes to approximate the population of particular frt trains, more attention to their characteristics seems warranted. From the information available to me via video, data in UPHS articles and frt conductor books, frt trains traveling on the UP trunk through Wyoming were rather unique...that is, they had specific tasks. Hence, their composition was not cosmopolitan. In my case, I have much less interest in what occurred over a year because, for one thing, due to several reasons, I model the spring time in 1953 or 1954.

There is, of course, much useful information to be gained from statistical studies and the analysis of various wheel reports. We now know a great deal more about what types of cars seem to travel far off line and what don't. At the same time, we know some of the peculiarities due to unique competition between certain RRs [ Santa Fe/SP, for example ].

Mike Brock


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER - 1961 Rutland-B&M Interchange of FM's and High & Wides

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

A sample taken from a minor, rural agricultural railroad in Vermont
is confirmation of a "principle" that applies universally??
O' Tim,

The sighting of five FD and two FW Flat Cars on the B&M-Bellows Falls-Rutland RR route occurred because that route was the "high & wide" route around B&M's Hoosac Tunnel. The three B&M cars were assigned to GE's Lynn MA plant. I don't know to what companies the other four cars were assigned on the ERIE (2), C&O and RDG. Maybe Jeff has data showing some of these cars north of Rutland, but I doubt that. The cars were probably interchanged with the D&H in Center Rutland.

Jeff English responded:

In the context of a regulated network moving cars that were
effectively a nationwide pool, yes it is representative. While the
Rutland was small, it was nonetheless a through, bridge route and
took its tiny sliver of the national feight flow. That's was the
point of showing the variety of FM cars that rolled through <even on
a minor, rural agricultural railroad in Vermont>.
The geographic ownership distribution of the 94 (not 99) General Service Flat Cars in the 1961 List of the Bellows Falls Interchange of the B&M-Rutland was:

ICC Region # of Cars % of Total Principal RR's
New England 14 14.9% B&M, NH
Great Lakes 4 4.3% PLE, NYC, WAB
Central East 15 16.0% EJ&E, PRR, B&O, WM
Pocahontas 3 3.2% C&O
Southern 10 10.6% IC, ACL, SAL, SOU
Northwest 13 13.8% MILW, GN, SOO, CGW, DSSA, NP, SPS
Central West 29 30.8% RI, CB&Q, SP, ATSF, DRGW, UP, WP
Southwest 4 4.3% SLSF, T&P
Canadian 2 2.1% CP
Total 94 100.0%

All eight ICC Regions plus Canada are represented. Let's see how they compare with total General Service "FM" Flats owned by RR's in each region. The best "FM" roster data I have on a spreadsheet is from the 4/1949 ORER, and it will take time to parse the FM's of the April 1961 ORER. While the 1961 percentages of the Central West and Northwest Regions were probably greater than the 1949 percents; this increase was at the expense of those of RR's in the Eastern Regions, New England, Great Lakes & Central East). The comparison between the FM's interchanged in 1961 at Bellows Falls with the 1949 Ownership Totals follows:

ICC Regions % FM's Interchanged % FM's Owned
New England 14.9% 1.8%
Great Lakes 4.3% 5.8%
Central East 16.0% 13.7%
Pocahontas 3.2% 2.4%
Southern 10.6% 13.9%
Northwest 13.8% 28.8%
Central West 30.9% 27.7%
Southwest 4.3% 6.0%
Canadian 2.1% NA
Total 100.0% 100.0%

Percentage-wise, the New England Roads' surplus of cars interchanged compared the FM's owned were offset pretty much by the deficit in the Northwest Roads. A simple reason may be that the B&M was the interchange partner of the Rutland. But without knowing whether they were loaded or empty in either direction plus what commodities were carried, it would be not worthwhile to guestimate the cause. There seemed to be no dominant FM carrier among the Northwestern Roads of the 13 FM's interchanged.

The Central East was bolstered by 11 EJ&E cars - "high & wide"? Again, not knowing the breakdown between direction, loaded/empty, or commodity hinders a guess. The Central West had 15 Rock Island - "John Deere Green" out of Moline (?).

So, without directional, loaded or empty or commodity data, we cannot determine what "FM" Flat Cars were probably free rollers.

Hope this helps a bit although only a bit, Tim Gilbert


Re: DL&W USRA Style cars

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:
"While looking up information on the LNE X29 style cars, I came across a
photo of DL&W 47180 in the April 1987 issue Model Railroading. According to
the caption the DL&W had 1000 cars, 47000-47999, of USRA style 40' box cars.
My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends? They look similar, however, Al Westerfield
doesn't offer his 2900 series NYC model with DL&W decals, so I imagine there
are differences."

Brian, I've uploaded a side-by-side of the DL&W and NYC prototype cars in
the files section at STMFPH:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/
The file is titled "DL&W - NYC USRA-design steel boxcar comparison".

Unfortunately, I don't have photos of these cars with better view of the
ends or roof, so I'm not sure if there are significant differences or not;
however, from these views, it certainly looks like the DL&W car can be
bashed from Westerfield 2951. (Hopefully, Al - or Mike DelVecchio - will
chime in soon...)


Ben Hom


Re: walking the train

James Eckman
 

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Thanks for clarifying this, Ted. As several of us have already noted, I'm sure there were times when it was NOT fun at all.
I remember seeing an etching from a late 1800's Harpers? that shows some sorry sod setting brakes in a snowstorm. Roofwalks were still in heavy use early in our period by narrow gauge and other lines that hadn't switched over to air brakes. Modern railroad workers do have it easy in comparison!

Jim Eckman


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

While discussions of 'typical' freight cars, averages, road name
proportions, etc. are interesting they seem mostly pointless to me
when populating one's own model railroad with freight cars.

As I see it there are two uses for freight cars on a model railroad.

First, some freight cars are used to pick up or delivery freight to
industries or sidings on our model railroad. Typical, averages, road
name proportions, etc. don't apply. You need the freight cars
typically used by that industry in sufficient numbers to keep the
industry going without regard to any data extracted from ORERs, wheel
reports or anything else.

Second, some freight cars are part of the scenery. Many of us also
have freight trains that merely pass through without any pickups or
setouts at all. Here again, national or North American data is of
little use. A model of the SP in New Mexico, deliberately picking an
extreme example, would have lots of anode and concentrate cars
passing through the scene. Except for occasional diversions to a
plant in New Jersey, (can't remember whether it was ASARCO or Phelps-
Dodge) these wouldn't appear anywhere else in the country.

Like politics, all model railroading is local. Just my two-cents-
worth.

Gene Green


Re: Tichy PFE Reefers

Paul Lyons
 

In a message dated 7/16/2005 12:24:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
thompson@... writes:
What
was asked was the best model truck, since Richard's listing of the ARA
truck pattern was already known.
Tony, Sorry for the shot, but your Professor approach to things sometimes
drives me nuts! I asked about "best model truck" in hopes of short cutting the
process. With that said, let's see if I can "learn" something prototypical from
this tread. If I know it is an ARA truck, that automatically tells me how the
spring pack is arranged and spaced? If I know it is an ARA truck I know there
is only ONE side frame shape? I ask because the side frame shape of the ARA
U-section side frame truck shown on page 39 of CYC #4 is very different from the
side frame shape of the truck pictured on the car on page 117 of your PFE
Book. Your help is appreciated!
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Re: depressed flats

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Weighing in late, as usual. Two cars that haven't been mentioned in this chain are GM&O 79000 with plans in Mainline Modeler April 1987 and the very similar Rock Island 92000. Both are General Steel Castings, circa 1954, assembled by the railroads. The Bachmann car is about 6 feet short, but the center span area is similar. Of course all of the fins on the sided have to go. I have added the extra three feet to each end. The nice thing about modelling a cast body - no rivets to add! For the RI car, Eastern Car Works Commonwealth Intergral Pedestal trucks are appropriate. The car was originally equipped with solid bearings and later refitted with roller bearings. The GM&O car trucks are slightly different with roller bearings from the get go. Since there is no way to route brake rods, you will need cylinders, reservoirs, valves and brake wheels for each end. I have dumped the plastic decking in favor of a piece of lead sheet so there is no weight problem for returning home empty and Modeler's Choice was kind enough to cut two special wood end platforms. Now all I need are paint and decals. And an appropriate load!

Anyone figured out a use for the missle launcher???

Steve Hile


Re: CofG 10' high, 50', door & 1/2 boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, I'd be very interested in a resin kit too. But were these cars
built new that way, or rebuilt from 40 footers? 1960's photos of them
look like the cars were "spliced" with heavy reinforcing gussets on
either side of the doors.

As for modeling those 4' doors, two cuts of the IMWX/RC 6' door with
a single edge razor blade, and you're done! :-)

There is a great deal of interest in a model of this car building on
the CG Yahoo group. Does anyone here have any suggestions as to an
available 10' high 50? It was suggested that a 10' 1937 AAR be
lengthened and produce a urethane door kit for the 4' half door.

My guess is the right way (no pun intended) is a new complete urethane
kit.

Bill McCoy
Jax


Re: Flat Cars as per the 4/1949 ORER

Jeff English
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:
A sample taken from a minor, rural agricultural railroad in Vermont
is confirmation of a "principle" that applies universally??
In the context of a regulated network moving cars that were
effectively a nationwide pool, yes it is representative. While the
Rutland was small, it was nonetheless a through, bridge route and
took its tiny sliver of the national feight flow. That's was the
point of showing the variety of FM cars that rolled through <even on
a minor, rural agricultural railroad in Vermont>.

Following your logic, no one should model milk cars since they were
rarely seen in Yuma, Arizona.
I never made the argument that anyone should not model any
particular thing, and I don't and wouldn't advocate such a thing.

"Unusual loads"
were (and are) in fact very commonplace on mainline railroads.
Indeed, and to railfan eyes they called attention to themselves by
not being yet another box car. But they were still vastly
outnumbered by all those box cars.

flat cars in general represented a lot more than 1% of traffic on
the
SP pretty much from Oregon all the way to Louisiana for
transportation
of lumber, logs, pulpwood, steel, pipe, machinery and generally
bulky
large things that didn't fit into box cars.
Which proves what I've always said, that specific traffic is what
really moves, not averages. I was just showing how the specific
traffic added up on a small eastern through route.

You completely misread the two points I was trying to make, which
could just as well have been my failure to articulate them.

Jeff English
Troy, New York


Re: CofG 10' high, 50', door & 1/2 boxcars

centga@...
 

Tim, the C of G had a total of 500 cars built new as 50 footers. The first
100 cars built in 1937 had square corners and all the rest had "w" corners. Todd
Horton

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