Date   

Re: 65 ft. gons

pieter_roos <pieter.roos@...>
 

In addition, pipe is normally connected end to end over some
distance. Presumably the longer the pieces and fewer the joints, the
better, both from a cost (of the fittings and labor) and maintenance
(places to leak or come apart) view.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., "jim_mischke" <jmischke@w...> wrote:


No matter what the length, any damage to the pipe ends ruins them.

Before the advent of bulkhead flat cars and bulkhead gondolas,
extra
length gondolas were probably very welcome by shippers. The extra
room would allow for a little shifting, and a space buffer from
any
other equipment or cars.

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden"
<Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Ed;
There was a gent with Levinson Steel that told me that they
always
received their pipe stock in (PB&NE or somesuch; was that a Beth
Steel
road?) 65' gons. I wonder why? Was it cheaper to have big
lengths
supplied, than shorter ones?

Elden


Re: Raintree County/Ma&Pa

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Justin.

Liberty Models did do another car that I am aware of. It was a model of
Kansas City Terminal (KCT) transfer caboose number 513. I do not think
that was the NMRA convention commemorative car, so add a third kit to
the list. I have one of these that is mint in the box. Perhaps
someday...

In another life... that is, many, many years ago... several of us KC
railfans restored the real 513. I have also kit-bashed the 513 in
styrene. Both challenges were fun, but working in FS-Scale is a blast.

-- Bill Keene

On Jul 20, 2005, at 10:58 PM, Justin Kahn wrote:

As I recall, the film was made around the mid-1950's from a
well-selling
potboiler and featured an ElizabethTaylor, mature but not yet blowsy,
so it
is possible commercial copies of the film on tape or DVD might be
available
for her fans. And to avoid having my probation pulled (I am on
work-release
for questioning our host-corporation's altruism), I will include a
mention
of an obscure kit line named Liberty Models, located in Independence
MO back
in the 1960's. Their only two kits I am aware of were the Ma&Pa
flatcar and
a special commemorative kit for the NMRA convention in Kansas City; I
believe both were made in several scales. I finally, just this last
year,
acquired one of the O scale flatcar kits, and it isn't at all bad.
Although
most of the Ma&Pa steam locomotives have been imported in HO, and
Westwood
made kits for their passenger cars, and Harold Geissel published
drawings of
quite a few of their freight cars, I don't think anyone else has
produced
models (although I recall having an Overland eight-wheel caboose back
when I
was in HO).
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.



Did anyone happen to tape this? It has a Ma & Pa car in it that they
used.
I haven't been able to find anything out at all about the movie till
now.
I'd
be interested in obtaining a copy.

Robert "Rocky" Jackson
Scott Pitzer
BTW the other night after showing the Civil War drama "Raintree
County,"
TCM
ran a "Making of" short. It showed the B&O "William Mason" arriving
on
location on a P-25 flat... I had the number in mind for awhile, but
now I
don't.
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Re: J&L 20,000 Gallon Tankcar

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

The light gray is a water paint that was used by the car and locomotive builders to highlight details and parts on newly built and rebuilt equipment. Many photos of rolling stock appear in the cyclopedia's painted this way. In many cases it is a mistake to believe that this was the way the equipment looked after being put into service. After the photos were taken, the water paint was washed off and the equipment was repainted into the railroad's in-service paint scheme.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

John Pearson wrote:

Gene You can see a picture of the J&L 20,000g tank car in Train shed cyclopedia No 12. page 320
published 1973 by Newton K Gregg, Novato, Calif ISBN 0-912318-41-4

The photograph looks like a builders record in light grey, before painting in the actual as delivered livery a not uncommon phenomena of that era.
I have pictures of new PRR L1 2-8-2s in light grey with white air brushed windows !

The nice brass HO model of the tank car by NWSL states - 9 Cars built in 1926 by Standard Tank Co for transport of Hot coal tar between Aliquippa and Pittsburgh.
Given the coal tar service of the cars, black would be a more appropriate livery, as stated by Eldon Gatwood (confirmed by Ken Kobus) .
Champ used to do a very nice J&L 20K tank car, HO decal set in silver, for a black car.
I understand from Ken Kobus that one of the cars was involved in a wreck on the P&LE pre 1966, and that a picture of the distressed car exists in St Louis at the Mercantile Library. I would love to see an in service picture, if anyone has access
Ken Kobus says the last car was cut up about 1992

The National Car Register of 1953 states :
J&L 20,000g tank cars.......... Road numbers 1020 to 1028

Regards John Pearson Chester Uk








----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Deimling To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] J&L 20,000 Gallon Tankcar


Can someone refer me to a source of photos for the J&L three-dome 20,000 gallon tank car. Was the car used in interchange service? Did it get upgraded with newer trucks replacing the archbars?

Thanks,
Gene Deimling





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D&RGW 50ft PS-1 #60500-60509 photo needed #60500-60509

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Assuming that I can find a driver tonight for the
scanner at the CRM, I can scan the builders photo
in the library collection tomorrow. I plan on
attempting to download possible driver combos
tonight sop I can play with it tomorrow.

Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:27:17 -0000
From: "stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@...>
Subject: D&RGW 50ft PS-1 #60500-60509 photo needed

I'm wondering if a listmember has a prototype photo I could use for
decaling one of these cars as built in late 1954?
Any help would be appreciated!
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, BC



Bob Webber


Re: Riveted PS-1 box cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lee A. Gautreaux wrote:
Does this fly in the face of the notion that SP had no PS-1's? Or
were these cars built by PS to some other design, but were not true PS-
1's? What class are you talking about?
The SP did not have any welded PS-1 cars, and the only cars of the "PS-1-like" design were the riveted 50-ft. cars under discussion (they had the P-S end and roof). The class was B-50-37, and in researching the class for the next book, I found the SP spec. which identifies that the car followed C&O spec. 6-CFB, although the SP permitted "builder roof and ends," i.e. P-S parts, which apparently the C&O car may not have had. This was only SP's second class with DF loaders, and they were likely trying out the C&O and P-S design in comparison to their own car designs of the time (most SP box cars in that period were built in the Sacramento shops).
The sample car was 650000, and its built date is July, 1955.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 65 ft. gons

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Jim;
Great idea! Thanks for that; it makes sense.

I will try to find out more about this story/industry

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
jim_mischke
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 65 ft. gons



No matter what the length, any damage to the pipe ends ruins them.

Before the advent of bulkhead flat cars and bulkhead gondolas, extra
length gondolas were probably very welcome by shippers. The extra
room would allow for a little shifting, and a space buffer from any
other equipment or cars.









--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Ed;
There was a gent with Levinson Steel that told me that they always
received their pipe stock in (PB&NE or somesuch; was that a Beth
Steel
road?) 65' gons. I wonder why? Was it cheaper to have big lengths
supplied, than shorter ones?

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of
ed_mines
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] 65 ft. gons

A man who worked for the Erie in the early 1950s told me he
remembered
one customer who always received bales of metal in 65 ft. gons.

Ed





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Re: 65 ft. gons

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Richard;
Thank you for the feedback. That must've been the group that this guy
remembered.

Do you have any idea what type/manufacture gons these were? (I am really
hoping you will say they looked EXACTLY like the new Athearn release,
but with fixed ends...).

Thanks!

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:52 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 65 ft. gons

On Jul 21, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Gatwood, Elden wrote:

There was a gent with Levinson Steel that told me that they always
received their pipe stock in (PB&NE or somesuch; was that a Beth Steel
road?) 65' gons. I wonder why? Was it cheaper to have big lengths
supplied, than shorter ones?
Elden, the two RRs owned by Bethlehem were the Patapsco & Back Rivers
and the South Buffalo, neither of which owned 65' mill gons in the
steam era (though both had Greenville design 52'6" mill gons as modeled
by L-L). PB&NE served Bethlehem, PA, though it's not clear from the
ORER entries who owned it. PB&NE got 20 65' fixed-end mill gons in
1955, numbered 200-219, and another 30 numbered 220-249 shortly
afterward (as they are in the 10/58 ORER).




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Re: Riveted PS-1 box cars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Thursday, July 21, 2005, at 01:42 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Ed, the SP records show that their single order of these cars
followed a C&O spec. Do you have info or photos on the C&O cars? I'd be
curious to see if they are close in appearance (much of the spec. is
about design details, not the external aspect a modeler looks at).
Tony,
The C&O cars were lot 8247, built 9-55 (28000-28249). I've got a
builder's photo and there is also one published in the 1957 CBC on page
103. The SP cars were lot 8251, so the order was obviously placed very
close to the C&O order. Both orders of cars had nominal 7'+8'
Youngstown doors covering the 15' wide opening.
Ed


(No subject)

ljack70117@...
 

I need a photo of the top of a UnPac HK-70-1 ballast hopper. This has a top the makes it a covered hopper. The tops were probably added in the 40s. I have a brass model and top photo of the HK-50-4 hoppers. I want to make a top for an Atlas ballast car that is HK-70-1. Can any one help?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?


What Decals Do I Use?

gary laakso
 

I have some painted models that need decals and I need your assistance on the ones for the models:

1- Northern Pacific clark cars that W&R imported;
2- CB&Q Rodgers Hart hopper that W&R imported;
3- Great Northern 2 bay hoppers that OMI imported--73700-73764 and
4- what class numbers to use on the DRGW 47-2" gondolas that W&R imported. The numbers included for both versions (with and without the DRGW heard) are
80200 and 70000. It is odd to me that the whole series was re-numbered but, hey this is DRGW. What is the early series? The photos that I have seen cannot be read for the car number.


gary laakso
vasa0vasa@...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


Re: Riveted PS-1 box cars

Lee Gautreaux
 

Tony,

Does this fly in the face of the notion that SP had no PS-1's? Or
were these cars built by PS to some other design, but were not true PS-
1's? What class are you talking about?

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/

Ed, the SP records show that their single order of these cars
followed a C&O spec.
Tony Thompson


Re: J&L 20,000 Gallon Tankcar

John Pearson <PRRJ1a@...>
 

Gene
You can see a picture of the J&L 20,000g tank car in Train shed cyclopedia No 12. page 320
published 1973 by Newton K Gregg, Novato, Calif ISBN 0-912318-41-4

The photograph looks like a builders record in light grey, before painting in the actual as delivered livery a not uncommon phenomena of that era.
I have pictures of new PRR L1 2-8-2s in light grey with white air brushed windows !

The nice brass HO model of the tank car by NWSL states - 9 Cars built in 1926 by Standard Tank Co for transport of Hot coal tar between Aliquippa and Pittsburgh.
Given the coal tar service of the cars, black would be a more appropriate livery, as stated by Eldon Gatwood (confirmed by Ken Kobus) .
Champ used to do a very nice J&L 20K tank car, HO decal set in silver, for a black car.
I understand from Ken Kobus that one of the cars was involved in a wreck on the P&LE pre 1966, and that a picture of the distressed car exists in St Louis at the Mercantile Library. I would love to see an in service picture, if anyone has access
Ken Kobus says the last car was cut up about 1992

The National Car Register of 1953 states :
J&L 20,000g tank cars.......... Road numbers 1020 to 1028


Regards
John Pearson
Chester Uk

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Deimling
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] J&L 20,000 Gallon Tankcar


Can someone refer me to a source of photos for the J&L three-dome
20,000 gallon tank car. Was the car used in interchange service?
Did it get upgraded with newer trucks replacing the archbars?

Thanks,
Gene Deimling





SPONSORED LINKS Train travel Freight car Canada train travel
Train travel in italy North american


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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Re: Wood Swift Reefers

Paul Hillman
 

Gene Green wrote;

Ah, "analysis-paralysis", eh? I knew I had a problem but I didn't
know it had a name. Are there any self-help groups?

***********************************************************************************
Well, I have a whole "pack" of projects like that in boxes, et al, that I still have to do myself. It is not that I have procrastinated nor suffered paralysis, per se, it is instead that circumstance has lent it's misfortune to prevent me from continuing through with my intended endeavors. But, I have "Set my face like Flint", that SOME day I WILL finish them!!!

When I was 10 years old I made the decision that model railroading would be my life-long hobby, in the face of others asking me, "Are you still 'playing' with those trains?" I suffered this response to a long-haired beauty whom I greatly admired in my youth, to the same question; to wit) "Model railroading is NOT 'playing with trains'! It is three dimensional, animated art, understandable only by the truly gifted in perceiving of such deeper, creative things." After that I believe she became a Nun.

It is true though, that one wisely tends to seek out the most proficient way to approach a project, until it becomes sometimes a self-made, MAJOR project. I have done that often myself, seeking the highest perfection that I could attain, to the point that I've become almost dysfunctional with the project.

The "self-help" would be, like I've done,.....put the project aside for about 20 years, and then tackle it once again. The hiatus will provide a sufficient regrouping of intent about the project, and eventually one might even finish the damned thing!! Never give up!!

Paul Hillman


D&RGW 50ft PS-1 #60500-60509 photo needed #60500-60509

oliver
 

I'm wondering if a listmember has a prototype photo I could use for
decaling one of these cars as built in late 1954?
Any help would be appreciated!
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, BC


Re: Riveted PS-1 box cars

Scott Pitzer
 

Too bad there was never an episode of Laverne & Shirley where "Ed Norton" of the Honeymooners comes to work for the Milwaukee Sewage Commission-- and operates that cool vehicle!
Scott Pitzer


Re: Canadian open hoppers in USA

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

To add to John's comment:

When J&L owned the Adams mine on the Onatio Northland, iron ore was
shipped to Pittsburgh Works in ON, CN, Canada Southen and P&LE
hoppers, in proportion to the mileage. This lasted from 1965 to
1971, when Adams mine output was redirected to Canadian producer
Dofasco.

Someone I know worked for a zinc mill in Pittsburgh. Zinc-lead ore
(they tend to go together) was shipped from a mine in Canada. Mostly
in old boxcars, shoveled out by hand. Ugh. Sometimes arrived in
hoppers. All Canadian.

I rarely see Canadian hoppers in the US in the photo record. Not out
of the question, Canada is blessed with a wealth of ores.












--- In STMFC@..., "John Riddell" <jriddell@i...> wrote:
Max Carey wrote -

Thanks for the information. For the reasons you gave, a Canadian
open hopper in the USA must have been a rarity. I can't imagine
what
kinds of freight would have moved from Canada to the USA in open
hoppers.


Max,

Iron ore is one example. Unit trains of open hoppers carried iron
ore from northern Ontario to steel mills near Pittsburgh.
These unit trains consisted of hundreds of CN, Ontario Northland
and Canada Southern open triple hoppers. But this was after the
period of this group, from 1965 to 1971 .

Another example - in the west during the steam era, CP open top
coal gons carried coal accross the border from the many large coal
mines in the Crows Nest Pass of the Rockies.

In 1950, CN imported from the US 1.5 million tons of bituminous
coal while CP imported 1.6 million tons. This was imported from PA
and Ohio into southern Ontario and Manitoba. The further west and
east regions of Canada were both self-suffient with coal reserves.

Hope this helps.
John Riddell





Re: 65 ft. gons

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 21, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Gatwood, Elden wrote:

There was a gent with Levinson Steel that told me that they always
received their pipe stock in (PB&NE or somesuch; was that a Beth Steel
road?) 65' gons. I wonder why? Was it cheaper to have big lengths
supplied, than shorter ones?
Elden, the two RRs owned by Bethlehem were the Patapsco & Back Rivers and the South Buffalo, neither of which owned 65' mill gons in the steam era (though both had Greenville design 52'6" mill gons as modeled by L-L). PB&NE served Bethlehem, PA, though it's not clear from the ORER entries who owned it. PB&NE got 20 65' fixed-end mill gons in 1955, numbered 200-219, and another 30 numbered 220-249 shortly afterward (as they are in the 10/58 ORER).


Re: IC 40 ft. 2 bay hoppers

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

I presume these are not self clearing (i.e. the lading falls
completely out on its own with no persuasion from hired farm boys
with shovels).


In olden times, hopper cars were just gondolas with some hopper gear
added. Again, not self clearing.


This IC car is unusual for something built in the 1940's, yet was
state of the art for decades. The IC car would be more unusual if it
was self clearing.







--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
A few months ago someone asked about these unusual cars.

I was looking through an old issue of the "Green Diamond" an found
that the IC railroad rebuilt about 4000 of these cars from gondolas
in
1946-48.

Ed


Re: 65 ft. gons

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

No matter what the length, any damage to the pipe ends ruins them.

Before the advent of bulkhead flat cars and bulkhead gondolas, extra
length gondolas were probably very welcome by shippers. The extra
room would allow for a little shifting, and a space buffer from any
other equipment or cars.









--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Ed;
There was a gent with Levinson Steel that told me that they always
received their pipe stock in (PB&NE or somesuch; was that a Beth
Steel
road?) 65' gons. I wonder why? Was it cheaper to have big lengths
supplied, than shorter ones?

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of
ed_mines
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] 65 ft. gons

A man who worked for the Erie in the early 1950s told me he
remembered
one customer who always received bales of metal in 65 ft. gons.

Ed





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Riveted PS-1 box cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
I believe the UP car in question is a 50' riveted PS-1 from series
162300-162599, A-50-22, built late 1954. There was another riveted
series built early 1955, UP 500500-500699, B-50-44, with 8' door
openings. These orders were made on consecutive P-S lot numbers 8204
and 8205, respectively. There were a total of 16 orders of riveted 50'
PS-1s built in late-1948 (GTW) and resumed 1953-1959 (ATSF, C&EI, C&O,
CIL, DT&I, RI, SAL, SL-SF, SP, SSW, UP, and WP).
Ed, the SP records show that their single order of these cars followed a C&O spec. Do you have info or photos on the C&O cars? I'd be curious to see if they are close in appearance (much of the spec. is about design details, not the external aspect a modeler looks at).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

150201 - 150220 of 193583