Date   

Asparagus and Peaches in SC

Mike Turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

With all the discussion of FL oranges, I have been wondering about the asparagus shipments from Edgefield county SC.

My dad told me he helped load crates of asparagus into boxcars (maybe reefers) about 1937. The one shipper in Johnston, SC, did about 2 cars a day. Is there any way to put more numbers on this traffic and any destinations?

On a related subject, can anyone tell me where to look to put numbers on peach shipments around 1950?

Would these have shipped via FGE cars?

TIA.

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC


Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars and thanks! #8000-8299

oliver
 

Tim,

In addition to Ed's comments, Richard Hendrickson was kind enough to
send me a photo of #8252 by Red Davis in 1962(repaint). As I
understand it, the cars were built in 1950 with 1/3/4 Improved
Dreadnaught ends with a diagonal panel roof. They had somewhat
uncommon 12ft door openings. The photo shows Barber S-2 trucks. There
is also apparently a 1972 Frank Szachacz photo of car #8188 in Classic
Freight Cars, Vol. I and of #8252 by Virl Davis in the January '90
RMJ/RMJ Vol. II . I don't have access to these two photos

I've got an old Mckean 40' DD car with the 12ft opening that I'm using
for this one (the ends are wrong). I guess the Accurail car is the
same. Garth Groff said he used B-Line (rolling pin) ends instead, so I
may do that and the sill needs to be straightened.

I'm still not sure of the paint scheme for the as built cars, but
perhaps the other photos will shed light on this.

Stefan Lerché
Duncan, BC



--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

Ed, can you give more info on this Wabash 8000-8299 series? I
never heard of this group. Who built, when, other particulars?
As it happens, that is one of only 3 or 4 issues of Mainline
Modeler I never got hold of.

Stefan, what kit did you use to model the car?

Tim O'Connor


I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks? Stefan Lerché
Stefan,
A photo appeared in the Nov/Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler on page
17 (car no. 8153), taken circa 1963. I can't be of help to you
regarding official paint specs but the sides and ends were no doubt
Wabash #10 Red. Chances are good that the roof was coated with black
car cement as this was a common practice on Wabash box cars built
during the early 1950s. The side sill extends in a straight line
between the bolsters. The running board on car 8258 (Joe Collias photo
in 1962 of a repainted car 3-59) shows a U.S. Gypsum running board and
A.A.R. spring plankless trucks. Perhaps Chet French has more data
about
these cars and will report. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


N Scale Burro Crane

Brian Termunde
 

I realize that this is out of scope, but perhaps this could have been
carried by a steam era freight car! <G> I need a light weight crane in N scale for
MofW, looking at the Walthers' catalog, I see the following item,

_Walthers Model Railroad Mall -- product information page_
(http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/623-2041)

In case this link doesn't work, it's Railway Express Miniatures item number
623-2041, burro crane. Looking at this crane, it seems to be a more modern
item, but could it be backdated to the 1950's? TIA for any comments or even
better, ideas for a light weight crane for my Grand Canyon District.

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery?
Yes, though I doubt PFE and SFRD provided more than a fraction of
the outgoing cars (and those only in certain seasons).
In the Fall 1947 UP Conductor Fraley's wheel report, there were twenty carloads of beer reported: - four of them were carried in boxcars; the other 16 in reefers with five of those reefers being PFE.

In the Fall 1946 SOU wheel report between Pot Yard and Monroe VA, there were ten carloads of beer reported: - all ten of them being boxcars.

Tim Gilbert


Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

William Keene wrote:

Tim,

A good deal of the local KC LCL traffic was loaded/unloaded at the
freight house in the west bottoms just south of the location of old
Union Depot. This was fairly tight operating confines and most of it
built before the 20th Century. There is the possibility that there was
not enough room between car and freight house to swing a reefer door.
Or perhaps even switch a string of open door reefers along side.
Bill,

I was referring to not enough room on parallel tracks to swing open the hinged doors of reefers. This was the "usual" problem at most transfer houses where there were no permanent platforms between parallel tracks.

Regarding KC's West Bottoms District, hinged doors could always be opened if the reefer was set at the "warehouse's" doors. I believe, however, that the West Bottoms area had what was proverbially referred to as a "transfer" rather than a "freight house."

Tim Gilbert

I had written:


According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE
REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at
Argentine
Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at
Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to their
hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had to be
trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery?
Yes, though I doubt PFE and SFRD provided more than a fraction of the outgoing cars (and those only in certain seasons).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, can you give more info on this Wabash 8000-8299 series? I
never heard of this group. Who built, when, other particulars?
As it happens, that is one of only 3 or 4 issues of Mainline
Modeler I never got hold of.

Stefan, what kit did you use to model the car?

Tim O'Connor

I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks? Stefan Lerché
Stefan,
A photo appeared in the Nov/Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler on page
17 (car no. 8153), taken circa 1963. I can't be of help to you
regarding official paint specs but the sides and ends were no doubt
Wabash #10 Red. Chances are good that the roof was coated with black
car cement as this was a common practice on Wabash box cars built
during the early 1950s. The side sill extends in a straight line
between the bolsters. The running board on car 8258 (Joe Collias photo
in 1962 of a repainted car 3-59) shows a U.S. Gypsum running board and
A.A.R. spring plankless trucks. Perhaps Chet French has more data about
these cars and will report. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: 10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Ed--#40000 is listed in the Jan. 1947 ORER, with the little black pyramid denoting an addition.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins
To: STMFC Discussion Group
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] 10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request


STMFC,
I apologize for the extra bandwidth, but would a member having either
or both the 10/46 and 1/47 ORER tell me if Fruit Growers Express car
number 40000 is listed in these specific editions? This was a car with
aluminum construction. Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



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Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Tim,

A good deal of the local KC LCL traffic was loaded/unloaded at the
freight house in the west bottoms just south of the location of old
Union Depot. This was fairly tight operating confines and most of it
built before the 20th Century. There is the possibility that there was
not enough room between car and freight house to swing a reefer door.
Or perhaps even switch a string of open door reefers along side.

-- Bill Keene

On Jul 27, 2005, at 1:41 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:

Anthony Thompson wrote:

[snip]
According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE
REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at
Argentine
Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at
Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to their
hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had to be
trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.

Tim Gilbert



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Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 27, 2005, at 2:55 PM, buchwaldfam wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.
Phil, I have a ca. 1950 photo of a Santa Fe steel reefer in Milwaukee being loaded with cartons of Schlitz beer in cans. PFE cars were doubtless used for this purpose as well.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

buchwaldfam wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.

Five of the 64 westbound loaded PFE reefers in the UP Conductor's Fraley Fall 1947 were loaded with beer. No idea who the brewer was.

There was one westbound SLRX beer load reported, but no MRS boxcars.

Tim Gilbert


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE
reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as
insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Florida reefers was More From the Florida Archives.

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson says:


Mike Brock wrote:
First, FL is most definitely NOT self sufficient regarding produce now
and
hasn't been for some time . . .FL receives . . . unbelievably . . .
citrus from California . . .
Not sure why it's out of scope, Mike, as in the era of this list
those shipments would have come in freight cars.
Quite true but I was referring to now which I certainly don't want to open the door for discussion.

One thing...one has to be very careful about discussing the relative merits of FL/Cal fruit while in FL <g>. One thing is for sure, Tree ripened fruit is best. BTW, Tennessee strawberries were in the steam era, IMO, considerably better than what one finds now. Hmmm. Just like with locomotives.

Mike Brock


Re: Reefers in the South was Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

On Jul 27, 2005, at 12:47 PM, I wrote:


I imagine that the SOU got the business only instead of banana boats
usually arriving in Baltimore or further north because many of those
banana boats were being retrofitted for civilian service after WW II: -
the Gulf Ports allowing a quicker turnaround than the North Atlantic Ports.
Bruce Smith responded:


I suppose that the number of PFE cars being so close to the FGE group is a sign of the immediate post WWII time frame and the suspension of the car service rules for reefers as well.
Bruce,

I tend to think that the War Time suspension of Car Service Rules for Reefers were the reason that PFE were used in the Banana Trade from the Gulf Ports rather than proximity to the FGE Group. Putting it in another way, the percentage of perishables loaded in PFE reefers of the total perishables loaded by the UP, SP and WP as per page 450 of Thompson et al.'s PFE was 91% in 1941; 73% in 1943; 66% in 1947; and 84% in 1949: - the suspension was started in 1942 and ended in 1949.

Tim Gilbert


Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Bruce, the PFE correspondence archives (and probably SFRD too)
support the continual problem with eastern shippers and railroads
confiscating PFE and SFRD cars, as they were typically in better shape
than FGE (and far better than MDT, ART, etc.) and therefore preferred.
Some parts of the year, PFE did not much care (after all, they got paid
mileage on all movements), but in the peak season, roughly July to
October, they were quite intolerant of confiscation and worked extra
hard to find and return all empties westward.
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE
reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as
insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).
Of the 170 westbound PFE reefers between Laramie and Rawlins WY reported by Fraley in the Fall of 1947, 106 were empty and 64 were loaded. 31 of those loads were LCL Merchandise which did not need insulation. Instead they were used in lieu of boxcars which were needed on the UP for eastbound grain traffic from Nebraska and Kansas.

According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at Argentine Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to their hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had to be trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.

At C&NW's Proviso Transfer, special dock facilities were not necessary because each track had direct access to a permanent platform. At many other LCL Transfers, only the platform track was directly accessible; LCL on parallel tracks had to be unloaded/loaded through car doors to reach a permanent platform. Short portable platforms allowed LCL to be hand-trucked between cars on parallel tracks.

Tim Gilbert

Tim Gilbert


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
PFE 15110 A PFE reefer! How could you post that? Don't you know
that loaded PFE reefers only ran left to right!! Oh the humanity! I
think a warning label might have been in order as some list members
may be unduly shocked by seeing that photograph ;^)

Of course, I LOVE it as it supports a mix of reefers hauling Florida
produce north, which would have included PFE, MDT, and FGE/BRE/WFE
(although that PFE date of 1928 is quite a bit earlier than the other two)
Bruce, the PFE correspondence archives (and probably SFRD too) support the continual problem with eastern shippers and railroads confiscating PFE and SFRD cars, as they were typically in better shape than FGE (and far better than MDT, ART, etc.) and therefore preferred. Some parts of the year, PFE did not much care (after all, they got paid mileage on all movements), but in the peak season, roughly July to October, they were quite intolerant of confiscation and worked extra hard to find and return all empties westward.
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Florida reefers was More From the Florida Archives.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
First, FL is most definitely NOT self sufficient regarding produce now and
hasn't been for some time . . .FL receives . . . unbelievably . . . citrus from California . . .
Not sure why it's out of scope, Mike, as in the era of this list those shipments would have come in freight cars. As every California learns as a child, Florida oranges are not outstanding table fruit and have traditionally been used primarily for juice; California oranges are the reverse. California has long been the dominant US producer of lemons also.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Ed Hawkins
 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2005, at 09:41 AM, stefanelaine wrote:

osted this message to the Wabash list, but did not receive a
response: I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks?

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Stefan Lerché
Stefan,
A photo appeared in the Nov/Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler on page
17 (car no. 8153), taken circa 1963. I can't be of help to you
regarding official paint specs but the sides and ends were no doubt
Wabash #10 Red. Chances are good that the roof was coated with black
car cement as this was a common practice on Wabash box cars built
during the early 1950s. The side sill extends in a straight line
between the bolsters. The running board on car 8258 (Joe Collias photo
in 1962 of a repainted car 3-59) shows a U.S. Gypsum running board and
A.A.R. spring plankless trucks. Perhaps Chet French has more data about
these cars and will report. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: CA as gap filler.

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Not to mention green shrinks. Use the Squadron white instead.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:39:36 -0700
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: CA as gap filler.

John Swanson wrote:
Another trick I picked up is to place Squadron putty (I near always
use Green Putty) on a piece of around .020 styrene and wipe it into
the area to be filled. This fills the area under pressure so it fills
nicely and leaves little sanding.
In other contexts, John, the tool would be a putty knife.
Therefore not IMO a "new" trick.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: CA as gap filler.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Swanson wrote:
Another trick I picked up is to place Squadron putty (I near always use Green Putty) on a piece of around .020 styrene and wipe it into the area to be filled. This fills the area under pressure so it fills nicely and leaves little sanding.
In other contexts, John, the tool would be a putty knife. Therefore not IMO a "new" trick.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history