Date   
Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

Red Caboose and IIRC IM reefers have them.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Garth Groff
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

Fred,

Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, <snip>. This
detail is rarely modeled.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Re: Using CA as a gap filler

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

In regard to Andy's post regarding Devcon, I have a friend in Ft. Wayne Indiana who makes his own masters and casts all of his PRR rolling stock from Devcon. Bill Faith, whom some of those on this list may remember, had been the original owner of Custom Railway Supply. At that time he was selling engravings of tower signs, railroad crossing signs, engine and tender badge plates, in addition to also making trust plates for passenger cars, cabin (cabooses to most of you) cars and freight cars (proper references for this list).

Bill has always cast his own parts from his own molds and masters, or from molds he made of commercially made parts. Over the last several years he has turned to Devcon to cast his own kits and parts which assembles into passenger cars and freight cars which would not otherwise be available, or available only as a brass model. His standards are so high that he absolutely refuses to buy a lot of what is on the market, either in brass, plastic or urethane.

He says that the Devcon as a casting material, even for large objects such as freight and passenger car sides, is an excellent medium to use and has had very few problems with it. I have seen the results of his work. He has cast PRR H30 Covered Hoppers where the only commercial parts that he has used were the grab irons, dimensional brass wire, couplers and wheel sets. They are exquisite! The interesting thing is that the Devcon he is using, when set up and hardened, is a dark gray. I imagine from Andy's description of the WHITE 2-Ton epoxy, that there must be several versions of this casting material on the market.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware,19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...
Andy Carlson wrote:

A very accomplished modeler, who has mentored me for
decades, showed me a technique years ago which I still
gratefully use and have found nothing else with the
properties I find useful.

Hardware stores which stock Devcon WHITE 2-Ton epoxy
are the source for a great filler for styrene models.
Back when I was making a few masters of freight cars,
styrene was the material I worked with and I found
that this Devcon product was a very good surface
filler. It has a hardness similar to styrene, an asset
when someone is sanding/filing the work area. It does
not shrink, and the working consistency enables single
application success. Downside? It takes about 6 hours
to harden. Avoid the 5-minute epoxys, for their
shrinkage alone makes them unusable for this purpose.

Over the years this product has been harder to find,
though it seems to be currently available in a double
syringe applicator. I suggest separating the 2
syringes, and when mixing, use a ratio of about 55/45
white component to cream component.

BTW, Devcon White 2-Ton Epoxy is an extremely good
product for casting small parts from molds made from
Auto Parts stores high Temperature Silicone Gasket
material.
Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


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Re: Drains

Justin Kahn
 

Ahem, Garth. The former Intermountain refrigerator cars in O scale (their loss as kits much lamented) offered that detail.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.



Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, or sometimes
chutes, which were supposed to carry the water away from the car, much
like the downspouts on a house.
This detail is rarely modeled.

Garth G. Groff
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Tim,

Did not think about swinging open the reefer doors at the freight house
into the open freight house door. Simple solution to a problem that was
not there.

And I concur with the thought of swinging open doors on adjacent tracks
that were on 13-foot, or less centers. We had a bit of trouble with
this at the paired tracks at the KCRM.

Referring to the KCT Interchange Map of 1929 (Print No.437-13585) that
is hanging at my left shoulder as I type this indicates that the KCT
referred to the Santa Fe's portion of the West Bottom trackage as the
AT&SF Ry Yard. This was also an interchange point between the AT&SF and
the CMStP&P (Milwaukee Road).

The AT&SF RY System Track Chart of Kansas City (corrected to Jan. 1962)
indicates that these facilities located at the north end of a complex
named Kansas City Yard are called;
- In Freight House... this extended from 14th Street to 16th Street on
the west side of Hickory Street
- Out Freight House... this extending from 13th Street to 16th Street
on the east side of Hickory Street. This facility had two tracks
entering from the south that were under cover.

I hope that the above adds to the knowledge base.

-- Bill Keene



On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:

William Keene wrote:

> Tim,
>
> A good deal of the local KC LCL traffic was loaded/unloaded at the
> freight house in the west bottoms just south of the location of old
> Union Depot. This was fairly tight operating confines and most of it
> built before the 20th Century. There is the possibility that there
was
> not enough room between car and freight house to swing a reefer
door.
> Or perhaps even switch a string of open door reefers along side.

Bill,

I was referring to not enough room on parallel tracks to swing open
the
hinged doors of reefers. This was the "usual" problem at most transfer
houses where there were no permanent platforms between parallel
tracks.

Regarding KC's West Bottoms District, hinged doors could always be
opened if the reefer was set at the "warehouse's" doors. I believe,
however, that the West Bottoms area had what was proverbially referred
to as a "transfer" rather than a "freight house."

Tim Gilbert

I had written:

>
> >  According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE
> >  REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at
> > Argentine
> >  Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at
> >  Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to
their
> >  hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had
to be
> >  trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.
> >
> >




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Ed Hawkins
 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2005, at 05:56 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ed, can you give more info on this Wabash 8000-8299 series? I
never heard of this group. Who built, when, other particulars?
As it happens, that is one of only 3 or 4 issues of Mainline
Modeler I never got hold of.

Stefan, what kit did you use to model the car?
Tim,
The cars had staggered 11'-11" door openings, built 6-50 (car 8258).
The only photos I've seen are broadsides, but they appear to have the
early R+3/4 IDN ends and diagonal panel roofs. The cars appear
externally pretty much like any other Wabash postwar AAR box car with
riveted sides, except of course the addition of auxiliary doors. I'm
pretty sure they were built by the railroad, probably at Decatur,
however I don't have any early photos that verifies this. The old
McKean 40' double-door model would be the closest model except it had
the later version R+3/4 IDN ends and the side sills need to be modified.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Scott Pitzer
 

According to the reference card I made when I built my model, there is a photo in RAILMODEL JOURNAL for January 1990.

It says here I replaced the ends on the Accurail body with resin ones-- no doubt from "Canadian Railway Model Parts Guild." Branchline should have the equivalent design (R/3/4 with the rolling pin cross-section on the 3/4 ribs.)

I used "mostly Champ lettering but large flag from Microscale multi-road set." There could be something much better from Mark Vaughan or another source.

Scott Pitzer

Re: 10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request

Ed Hawkins
 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2005, at 05:44 PM, Brian Leppert wrote:

Ed--#40000 is listed in the Jan. 1947 ORER, with the little black
pyramid denoting an addition.
Brian,
Thanks much. The builder's photo shows a build date of 10-46, but Bob
Bowes reported earlier that the 10/46 ORER didn't list it. By the way,
this information will be used in a table in the next RP CYC for an
article submitted by Bill Welch about FGE/BRE/WFE reefers built
1942-1946, including some coverage of FGE's token aluminum car. I
appreciate your looking this up as this helps fill out the table more
completely.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Asparagus and Peaches in SC

Mike Turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

With all the discussion of FL oranges, I have been wondering about the asparagus shipments from Edgefield county SC.

My dad told me he helped load crates of asparagus into boxcars (maybe reefers) about 1937. The one shipper in Johnston, SC, did about 2 cars a day. Is there any way to put more numbers on this traffic and any destinations?

On a related subject, can anyone tell me where to look to put numbers on peach shipments around 1950?

Would these have shipped via FGE cars?

TIA.

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC

Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars and thanks! #8000-8299

oliver
 

Tim,

In addition to Ed's comments, Richard Hendrickson was kind enough to
send me a photo of #8252 by Red Davis in 1962(repaint). As I
understand it, the cars were built in 1950 with 1/3/4 Improved
Dreadnaught ends with a diagonal panel roof. They had somewhat
uncommon 12ft door openings. The photo shows Barber S-2 trucks. There
is also apparently a 1972 Frank Szachacz photo of car #8188 in Classic
Freight Cars, Vol. I and of #8252 by Virl Davis in the January '90
RMJ/RMJ Vol. II . I don't have access to these two photos

I've got an old Mckean 40' DD car with the 12ft opening that I'm using
for this one (the ends are wrong). I guess the Accurail car is the
same. Garth Groff said he used B-Line (rolling pin) ends instead, so I
may do that and the sill needs to be straightened.

I'm still not sure of the paint scheme for the as built cars, but
perhaps the other photos will shed light on this.

Stefan Lerché
Duncan, BC



--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

Ed, can you give more info on this Wabash 8000-8299 series? I
never heard of this group. Who built, when, other particulars?
As it happens, that is one of only 3 or 4 issues of Mainline
Modeler I never got hold of.

Stefan, what kit did you use to model the car?

Tim O'Connor


I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks? Stefan Lerché
Stefan,
A photo appeared in the Nov/Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler on page
17 (car no. 8153), taken circa 1963. I can't be of help to you
regarding official paint specs but the sides and ends were no doubt
Wabash #10 Red. Chances are good that the roof was coated with black
car cement as this was a common practice on Wabash box cars built
during the early 1950s. The side sill extends in a straight line
between the bolsters. The running board on car 8258 (Joe Collias photo
in 1962 of a repainted car 3-59) shows a U.S. Gypsum running board and
A.A.R. spring plankless trucks. Perhaps Chet French has more data
about
these cars and will report. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

N Scale Burro Crane

Brian Termunde
 

I realize that this is out of scope, but perhaps this could have been
carried by a steam era freight car! <G> I need a light weight crane in N scale for
MofW, looking at the Walthers' catalog, I see the following item,

_Walthers Model Railroad Mall -- product information page_
(http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/623-2041)

In case this link doesn't work, it's Railway Express Miniatures item number
623-2041, burro crane. Looking at this crane, it seems to be a more modern
item, but could it be backdated to the 1950's? TIA for any comments or even
better, ideas for a light weight crane for my Grand Canyon District.

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District

Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery?
Yes, though I doubt PFE and SFRD provided more than a fraction of
the outgoing cars (and those only in certain seasons).
In the Fall 1947 UP Conductor Fraley's wheel report, there were twenty carloads of beer reported: - four of them were carried in boxcars; the other 16 in reefers with five of those reefers being PFE.

In the Fall 1946 SOU wheel report between Pot Yard and Monroe VA, there were ten carloads of beer reported: - all ten of them being boxcars.

Tim Gilbert

Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

William Keene wrote:

Tim,

A good deal of the local KC LCL traffic was loaded/unloaded at the
freight house in the west bottoms just south of the location of old
Union Depot. This was fairly tight operating confines and most of it
built before the 20th Century. There is the possibility that there was
not enough room between car and freight house to swing a reefer door.
Or perhaps even switch a string of open door reefers along side.
Bill,

I was referring to not enough room on parallel tracks to swing open the hinged doors of reefers. This was the "usual" problem at most transfer houses where there were no permanent platforms between parallel tracks.

Regarding KC's West Bottoms District, hinged doors could always be opened if the reefer was set at the "warehouse's" doors. I believe, however, that the West Bottoms area had what was proverbially referred to as a "transfer" rather than a "freight house."

Tim Gilbert

I had written:


According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE
REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at
Argentine
Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at
Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to their
hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had to be
trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.

Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery?
Yes, though I doubt PFE and SFRD provided more than a fraction of the outgoing cars (and those only in certain seasons).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, can you give more info on this Wabash 8000-8299 series? I
never heard of this group. Who built, when, other particulars?
As it happens, that is one of only 3 or 4 issues of Mainline
Modeler I never got hold of.

Stefan, what kit did you use to model the car?

Tim O'Connor

I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks? Stefan Lerché
Stefan,
A photo appeared in the Nov/Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler on page
17 (car no. 8153), taken circa 1963. I can't be of help to you
regarding official paint specs but the sides and ends were no doubt
Wabash #10 Red. Chances are good that the roof was coated with black
car cement as this was a common practice on Wabash box cars built
during the early 1950s. The side sill extends in a straight line
between the bolsters. The running board on car 8258 (Joe Collias photo
in 1962 of a repainted car 3-59) shows a U.S. Gypsum running board and
A.A.R. spring plankless trucks. Perhaps Chet French has more data about
these cars and will report. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: 10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Ed--#40000 is listed in the Jan. 1947 ORER, with the little black pyramid denoting an addition.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins
To: STMFC Discussion Group
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] 10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request


STMFC,
I apologize for the extra bandwidth, but would a member having either
or both the 10/46 and 1/47 ORER tell me if Fruit Growers Express car
number 40000 is listed in these specific editions? This was a car with
aluminum construction. Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



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Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Tim,

A good deal of the local KC LCL traffic was loaded/unloaded at the
freight house in the west bottoms just south of the location of old
Union Depot. This was fairly tight operating confines and most of it
built before the 20th Century. There is the possibility that there was
not enough room between car and freight house to swing a reefer door.
Or perhaps even switch a string of open door reefers along side.

-- Bill Keene

On Jul 27, 2005, at 1:41 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:

Anthony Thompson wrote:

[snip]
According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE
REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at
Argentine
Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at
Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to their
hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had to be
trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.

Tim Gilbert



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Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 27, 2005, at 2:55 PM, buchwaldfam wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.
Phil, I have a ca. 1950 photo of a Santa Fe steel reefer in Milwaukee being loaded with cartons of Schlitz beer in cans. PFE cars were doubtless used for this purpose as well.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

buchwaldfam wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.

Five of the 64 westbound loaded PFE reefers in the UP Conductor's Fraley Fall 1947 were loaded with beer. No idea who the brewer was.

There was one westbound SLRX beer load reported, but no MRS boxcars.

Tim Gilbert

Re: More From the Florida Archives.

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE
reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as
insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Florida reefers was More From the Florida Archives.

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson says:


Mike Brock wrote:
First, FL is most definitely NOT self sufficient regarding produce now
and
hasn't been for some time . . .FL receives . . . unbelievably . . .
citrus from California . . .
Not sure why it's out of scope, Mike, as in the era of this list
those shipments would have come in freight cars.
Quite true but I was referring to now which I certainly don't want to open the door for discussion.

One thing...one has to be very careful about discussing the relative merits of FL/Cal fruit while in FL <g>. One thing is for sure, Tree ripened fruit is best. BTW, Tennessee strawberries were in the steam era, IMO, considerably better than what one finds now. Hmmm. Just like with locomotives.

Mike Brock