Date   

Re: Stirrup steps for LNE hopper

Greg Bartek
 

Not often I see a post on my favorite RR. For reference, I have the
Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5 that contains the data from the 1940 Car
Builders Cyclopedia.

The photo in the book is fairly clear with details. The car listed,
13283, was part of the 100 car order built by Bethlehem Steel Co. in
1939 covering numbers 13251-13350. The numbers 13001-13250 were from
a 1936 order from the same company. The dimensions should be
identical though the capacity for the 1936 order is listed as 2100
cu. ft. while the 1939 100 car order lists capacity at 2062 as is
reported in the cyclopedia.

Concerning the stirrups, the photo shows that both sides of the car
as-built look to have identical stirrups. Their shape is straight and
rectangular, no sign of any angle and canted slightly outward as you
describe. It is totally different from the type of stirrup on the
Atlas 2 bay offset hopper.

I have no information, photographic or otherwise, that would verify
if and when any rebuilds changed these in the 40's. If I had to give
an educated guess, being that the LNE was fairly frugal concerning
their rolling stock, I could not see them changing the style of the
stirrup early on except maybe in the case of collision damage. I'd
change the Atlas model to reflect an as-delivered style.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Greg Bartek

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@h...> wrote:
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to determine the proper stirrup steps for a Lehigh & New
England twin bay, offset-side hopper. The car in question is from
series 13001-13350, delivered in 1939. There is a grainy builder's
photo from the 1940 Cyclopedia available on the pay side of the
NEB&W website at:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Hoppers/LNE-offset-hm-
centered-logo-40-cyc.jpg

The vertical "legs" of stirrups appear to be straight and canted
slightly outwards, with two horizontal steps. However, later photos
of these cars from the 1960s show one "leg" offset towards the
center of the car, with two horizontal steps, like those that come
with the Atlas hopper. Were these cars delivered with one style of
steps, and then acquired another through rebuilds and repairs? What
would be correct for a car in the late 1940s?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Asparagus and Peaches in SC

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Carrock1998@a... wrote:
Tom---the Oxford you refer to was it in Pennsylvania or was it in
New Jersey?

Oxford Furnace, NJ, a few miles north of Washington NJ on the old main
line. It's on Route 31, which used to be Route 69 until the late '60s
when the local classes of '69 coupled with the sexual connotations of
that number caused the highway signs to disappear faster than they
could be replaced. Route 69/31 ends at the junction with Route 46 at
Butzville, where there was a three-level crossing of the DL&W bridging
the L&HR which itself bridged what I'm remembering was the Pequest
river.

Tom Madden


Re: Asparagus and Peaches in SC

al_brown03
 

NJ.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Carrock1998@a... wrote:
Tom---the Oxford you refer to was it in Pennsylvania or was it in
New Jersey?

Robert "Rocky" Jackson

In a message dated 7/28/2005 9:16:53 AM Central Standard Time,
tgmadden@w... writes:
I don't recall any facilities on the DL&W's old main line
through that same area, other than team tracks at Oxford and
Columbia, for handling such small-lot traffic. The idea of truck
farms was to be close enough to your market to get produce from
field to fork in just a few hours.

Tom Madden



Re: 1947 & 1956 Carloads and Tons Statistics for Fresh Fruit and Vegetables as per the ICC's Freight Commodity Stats

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

To get a handle of the Carloads and Tons Fresh Fruit and Vegetables which were originated, the 1947 and 1956 Freight Commodity Statistics data is shown in the table below - 1947 and 1956 selected because I have the carload data:

Commodity 1947 C/L's 1947 Tons 1956 C/L's 1956 Tons
Apples 47,471 943,661 14,563 284,511
Bananas 100,650 1,248,682 76,015 838,137
Berries (not frozen) 530 8,537 35 963
Cantelopes & Melons 26,029 323,658 20,593 356,846
Fresh Grapes 28,860 506,800 20,646 335,123
Lemons, Limes, etc. 13,712 282,400 10,981 213,996
Oranges/Grapefruit 139,231 3,181,863 40,065 825,855
Fresh Peaches 26,598 317,585 7,659 117,981
Fresh Pears 17,809 344,447 7,822 156,895
Watermelons 30,360 400,677 6,995 99,614
Other Fresh Fruit 16,892 245,885 6,621 105,111
Dried Fruit 10,462 372,751 3,920 131,875
Froz. Fruit&Berries 4,952 135,228 3,947 136,584
Total Fresh Fruit 463,556 8,312,174 291,120 4,671,242

Cabbage 25,810 343,570 9,252 143,064
Celery 23,562 292,205 20,649 327,951
Lettuce 78,191 950,105 61,024 853,221
Onions, Dry 35,985 557,865 13,499 258,809
Potatoes ex Yams 276,936 5,924,908 151,748 3,399,939
Tomatoes 26,027 331,878 11,345 197,544
Fr. Veg. nos 99,406 1,297,444 46,862 702,019
Dried Peas & Beans 31,902 1,310,004 22,100 911,591
Dried Veg. nos 1,246 36,349 1,926 57,152
Froz. Vegetables 5,331 148,342 11,171 369,619
Total Vegetables 604,396 11,192,670 440,077 7,729,333

Canned Food Prod. 415,693 12,029,231 444,836 12,459,790
Frozen Food Prod. 7,101 163,991 17,633 589,944


The total of all commodities (ex LCL) originated in the US in 1947 were 36,966,971 carloads and 1,514,984,779 tons. In 1956, the equivalent amounts were 27,886,948 carloads and 1,237,575,305 tons. Below is a table showing each categories' share of these totals:

Commodities 1947 C/L's 1947 Tons 1956 C/L's 1956 Tons
Total Fruit 1.3% 0.5% 1.0% 0.4%
Total Vegetables 1.6% 0.7% 1.6% 0.6%
Canned Food Prod. 1.1% 0.8% 1.6% 1.0%
Frozen Food Prod. 0.0% 0.0% 0.1% 0.0%

Tim Gilbert


Stirrup steps for LNE hopper

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to determine the proper stirrup steps for a Lehigh & New
England twin bay, offset-side hopper. The car in question is from
series 13001-13350, delivered in 1939. There is a grainy builder's
photo from the 1940 Cyclopedia available on the pay side of the
NEB&W website at:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Hoppers/LNE-offset-hm-
centered-logo-40-cyc.jpg

The vertical "legs" of stirrups appear to be straight and canted
slightly outwards, with two horizontal steps. However, later photos
of these cars from the 1960s show one "leg" offset towards the
center of the car, with two horizontal steps, like those that come
with the Atlas hopper. Were these cars delivered with one style of
steps, and then acquired another through rebuilds and repairs? What
would be correct for a car in the late 1940s?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Drains

Miller,Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

As I recall the I/M SFRD reefers have this detail.

regards,

Andy Miller

"The drains on trains are mainly on the wane"

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Garth Groff
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:08 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Drains

John and Jace,

Yes, I was aware that some kits, particularly Westerfield and Sunshine,
include the drains. Most commercially produced reefer kits or RTR models

that have been offered in the past leave off this detail. It has also
been widely overlooked in many upgrading articles in the hobby press.
Things are changing, thank goodness, and in this case I think for the
better.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

John Fitts wrote:

In HO, Westerfield has that detail in his reefer kits as appropriate.

Justin Kahn <harumd@hotmail.com> wrote:Ahem, Garth. The former
Intermountain refrigerator cars in O scale (their
loss as kits much lamented) offered that detail.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.





Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, or sometimes
chutes, which were supposed to carry the water away from the car, much
like the downspouts on a house.

This detail is rarely modeled.


Garth G. Groff


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Re: Asparagus and Peaches in SC

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Fred in Vt. wrote:

Tim & Tom,

The PRR Society's Keystone had an article abot the NJ peach crop, and the express service trains that hauled them to NYC & Phila.. Back about 4 years, IIRC.
Would no doubt be safe in thinking that any seasonal consumable would have a schedule on most east coast RR's; be it reefer, ventilated, or insulated car.
1) When were these express service trains operated? Before or after trucks?
2) Express Service was not considered to be part of the Freight Commodity Statistics.
3) Is the last sentence a question? Or a statement? Are you referring to originating, through or terminating service?

Tim Gilbert


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

buchwaldfam wrote:

Thanks for the information. There was a large produce receiver a
few miles up the same branch that served Schlitz, Blatz, Pabst.
Do the wheel reports make a distinction as to the type of box car
they were (XM's or RBL's)? The Milwaukee would use standard box cars
in warmer seasons if there was a shortage of insulated cars.
Of the 20 cars reported by UP Conductor Fraley in the Fall of 1947, four were "XM's"; fourteen were "RS's"; and one each "RB" and "RSM."

Tim Gilbert


Re: Asparagus and Peaches in SC

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Tim & Tom,

The PRR Society's Keystone had an article abot the NJ peach crop, and the express service trains that hauled them to NYC & Phila.. Back about 4 years, IIRC.
Would no doubt be safe in thinking that any seasonal consumable would have a schedule on most east coast RR's; be it reefer, ventilated, or insulated car.

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: pullmanboss
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Asparagus and Peaches in SC


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@s...> wrote:
Carrock1998 wrote:
>
> > There is a huge area of land there [southern NJ]
> > that has
> > peaches. You might want to check to see if there were shipments
> > originating
> > there. My conjecture would be that it was mainly shipped to
> > either
> > Philadelphia
> > or New York City.

Tim Gilbert answered:
> By truck.

They were called "truck farms", and there were quite a few in
northern & central New Jersey as well. Learned about them in
geography class in school back in the '40s and the term must have
made quite an impression on me as I still remember it. Along with
the interesting factoid that hemp was grown in the Yucatan and was
used for making rope.

All manner of fruits and (especially) vegetables was grown in New
Jersey truck farms, and in season there would be daily deliveries of
fresh produce to markets in nearby metropolitan areas. There were
(and still are) many roadside stands where motorists could purchase
directly from the growers. Our occasional driving trips to New York
City on Route 46 back then took us through some truck farming areas,
and I don't recall any facilities on the DL&W's old main line
through that same area, other than team tracks at Oxford and
Columbia, for handling such small-lot traffic. The idea of truck
farms was to be close enough to your market to get produce from
field to fork in just a few hours.

Tom Madden




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Re: Drains

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

John and Jace,

Yes, I was aware that some kits, particularly Westerfield and Sunshine, include the drains. Most commercially produced reefer kits or RTR models that have been offered in the past leave off this detail. It has also been widely overlooked in many upgrading articles in the hobby press. Things are changing, thank goodness, and in this case I think for the better.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

John Fitts wrote:

In HO, Westerfield has that detail in his reefer kits as appropriate.

Justin Kahn <harumd@hotmail.com> wrote:Ahem, Garth. The former Intermountain refrigerator cars in O scale (their loss as kits much lamented) offered that detail.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.




Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, or sometimes
chutes, which were supposed to carry the water away from the car, much
like the downspouts on a house.
This detail is rarely modeled.

Garth G. Groff


Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Chet,

I gather from what you say that the original paint scheme on the Wabash 8000 had the small flag herald. Is the car in Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS V. 1 still in its original paint? I would have thought it was the other way around, which means my model with large heralds is wrong for 1957. :-(

Oh, poop!

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Chet French wrote:

Mark Vaughan's E-1 set includes the seven inch numbers and small flag

that was on the 8000-8299 series cars when new. One sheet appears to have enough lettering to do three Wabash and one NJI&I cars, with small flags on two of them. I do not have an updated E-2 set, but do have an older set, with no ID number, which has the four different size flags and nine inch numbers. If I were to use this set, I would still use the 18" WABASH from the E-1 set. YMMV. CDS has a set HO-
91, Wabash steel box car which has the 1961 large flag and lettering.
Chet French
Dixon, IL




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Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
Scott Pitzer wrote:
"It says here I replaced the ends on the Accurail body with resin
ones--
no doubt from "Canadian Railway Model Parts Guild." Branchline
should
have the equivalent design (R/3/4 with the rolling pin cross-
section on
the 3/4 ribs.)"

Branchline 100001
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/parts/detailparts.htm


"I used "mostly Champ lettering but large flag from Microscale
multi-
road set." There could be something much better from Mark Vaughan
or
another source."

Looks like Mark Vaughan E-1 or E-2, though I'm hoping Mark or Chet
will
chime in here...
http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/mevdecals.html
Ben,

Mark Vaughan's E-1 set includes the seven inch numbers and small flag
that was on the 8000-8299 series cars when new. One sheet appears to
have enough lettering to do three Wabash and one NJI&I cars, with
small flags on two of them. I do not have an updated E-2 set, but do
have an older set, with no ID number, which has the four different
size flags and nine inch numbers. If I were to use this set, I would
still use the 18" WABASH from the E-1 set. YMMV. CDS has a set HO-
91, Wabash steel box car which has the 1961 large flag and lettering.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Drains

John Fitts <jefitts2003@...>
 

In HO, Westerfield has that detail in his reefer kits as appropriate.

Justin Kahn <harumd@hotmail.com> wrote:Ahem, Garth. The former Intermountain refrigerator cars in O scale (their
loss as kits much lamented) offered that detail.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.



Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, or sometimes
chutes, which were supposed to carry the water away from the car, much
like the downspouts on a house.
This detail is rarely modeled.

Garth G. Groff
_________________________________________________________________
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Re: More From the Florida Archives.

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Thanks for the information. There was a large produce receiver a
few miles up the same branch that served Schlitz, Blatz, Pabst.
Do the wheel reports make a distinction as to the type of box car
they were (XM's or RBL's)? The Milwaukee would use standard box cars
in warmer seasons if there was a shortage of insulated cars.

Regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@s...> wrote:
Anthony Thompson wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars,
does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz
brewery?

Yes, though I doubt PFE and SFRD provided more than a
fraction of
the outgoing cars (and those only in certain seasons).
In the Fall 1947 UP Conductor Fraley's wheel report, there were
twenty
carloads of beer reported: - four of them were carried in boxcars;
the
other 16 in reefers with five of those reefers being PFE.

In the Fall 1946 SOU wheel report between Pot Yard and Monroe VA,
there
were ten carloads of beer reported: - all ten of them being
boxcars.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Devcon Epoxy (was Using CA as a gap filler)

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy, that was inspiring! In fact, I am thinking that this may be
a very good way to fill in the open spaces on the Intermountain
USRA composite gondola -- instead of trying to fit styrene plugs.

Moreover, a wavy result for the panels would be exactly the look
I'd want for a beat up gondola!!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@y...>
wrote:
Posted this message to the Wabash list, but did not receive a
response: I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if
wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks?

Sorry that I am a little slow replying regarding these cars. Ed
Hawkins has done a good job describing the car. The cars were built
between January and June 1950, at the Wabash's Decatur shop. They
were the first and only 40' steel double door auto cars built or
purchased by the railroad. The cars when built had the small flag
and reporting marks to the left of the doors and the WABASH to the
right. The bottom of the 18" WABASH was 4'-7 1/4" from the bottom of
the sides. The large flag began being used on repainted cars in
1961. The car number was 7" high until June 1956, when they were
changed to 9". The color chart shows the body, roof, underframe and
trucks all painted Wabash #10- freight car red. The underframe and
ends of the cars also received a coat of Wabash #37 black cement
prior to receiving the final coat of Wabash freight car red.

The cars show having three different trucks types used. ASF A-3,
Barber S-2-C, and what the Wabash always referred to
as "Bettendorf". Cars had Miner hand brake housings and wheels and
what appears to be Apex running boards. Between 1950 and 1953, 289
of the cars received panel racks for Ford side panel loading and were
designated as XAP's. A few cars also were fitted for transmission
loading. The balance of the cars were designated as XM's.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Corrosion Maintenance (Was Brine Holding Tanks)

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

About 20 years ago, I was a guest on a motorcar inspection trip over the southern remaining trackage of the former interurban Fort Dodge, Des Moines & Southern RR, newly re-minted as the tourist Boone & Scenic Valley RR. The principal features of the railroad were two substantial bridges in the beautiful Des Moines River valley: a high spindly trestle over a deep side-ravine (we would call it a canyon here), and a more substantial and longer bridge over the Des Moines River itself (the famed massive C&NW Kate Shelley high bridge over the Des Moines was- and still is ,of course- not too many miles downstream. We stopped to "inspect" each of these impressive FDDM&S bridges, and I commented in what great shape they seemed to be, much of the steel still having its mill finish intact (pretty important maintenance issue for a tourist line!). It was explained to me then that the bridges' great shape was due to the fact that the railroad historically hauled very few reefers "...to drip brine to corrode the steel,- unlike the Kate Shelley bridge which is currently so heavily corroded from refrigerator brine that they are constantly repairing it" .

I note that the Kate Shelley bridge is apparently currently slated for replacement. It would be interesting to know to what extent this giant project has resulted from years of brine corrosion (probably mostly from PFE cars :-) ).

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Devcon Epoxy (was Using CA as a gap filler)

Andy Carlson
 

Excuse my ear to ear grin as I respond. Precision is
not necessary, nor practiced by me. The epoxy simply
needs to be mixed a little on the "Rich" side for the
White component to get good material. Remember the
tear-off windows on the Front Range kit boxes? I mix
my Devcon on pieces of these cut outs, laying down a
stripe of White first, followed by a stripe of cream
hardener along side the first stripe. It is important
that both tubes have the same sized openings punched
by an awl, so each stripe is the same diameter. When
oozing out the cream hardener, stop where you feel
that it is slightly less than the white stripe. I
often mix amounts that would weigh less than 1/2 gram.
I suggest squeezing out the White component first, as
the cream hardener tends to flow out and flatten,
making eyeball estimates harder.

Also, while I could not believe it, a friend found
that regular rubbing alcohol can be used to thin the
epoxy with little to no observed degradation, so very
low viscous pours can be done. I also clean up the
tools and cardboard mixing board w/ alcohol.

One more thing, if you encounter a situation where you
need to patch a hole (such as plugging a caboose
window), simply stretch a piece of transparent tape
(Scotch) over the opening from the outside, then lay
in the Devcon from the inside. the transparency allows
for visually following the fill, voids will look
black. Allow to cure for at leat 12 hours, and peel
off the tape. You will not have to do any other prep
work, and the patch will be quicker and superior to
cutting and fitting styrene plugs. This is where it is
important to get the 55:45 mix, for if your ratio is
off, the rubbery epoxy will distort as the tape is
peeled off, and a slightly wavy surface will result.
On the other hand, if you want the effect of rippled
patch panels, use that trait to your advantage. You
will be amazed at what can be done with Devcon.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



--- timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Andy, how do you measure the stuff with such
precision? Do
you have a scale, or do you do it by volume? I
wonder if the
50:50 ratio works by weight but not volume, or vice
versa?

Tim O.



I would again caution against mixing 50:50. I
suggest
55:45 White to cream hardener, or a rubbery expoxy
will result.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


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Re: Charles Winters still selling?

Ed Hawkins
 

On Thursday, July 28, 2005, at 08:44 AM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Is Charles Winters (St. Louis) still selling his freight car and
steam
prints?  The last communication I had from him was in the
early/mid-90s.
If he's still active, can someone verify his mailing address and
phone
number?
Jim, it's my understanding that Charlie is in bad health and no longer
doing darkroom work, but that Howard Vollrath has access to the Winters
negative collection and may be able to make prints.  The last address I
have for Vollrath, which I believe may still be current, is 1000 West
97th Terrace, Kansas City, MO 64114.
Jim,
Richard's account of Mr. Winters is correct. However, Mr. Vollrath's
first name is Harold with middle initial K. (his phone number is
816-942-3423).
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: mixing of meat and produce reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 28, 2005, at 8:48 AM, ed_mines wrote:

Were meat reefers ever used for produce, particiularly in the '40s?
I'm reluctant to say never, Ed, but if done at all, it would have been very rarely and only on an emergency basis. Meat reefers were specially equipped for meat service with meat rails, floor racks, brine retaining tanks, etc. and thus were not really suitable for produce shipments.

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