Date   

Re: Question: Accurail USRA boxcar fishbelly underframe

c7etu5 <rpinchbeck@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., James Mischke <jmischke@w...> wrote:


I have a trio of Accurail USRA single sheath boxcars, decorated
Canadian National. These kits have substantial fishbelly
underframes that look way, way too large to me. Are they? I am
tempted to reduce them by a few mils. Photos in MainLine
Modeler articles just make me squint without resolving this
question..


I realize these models depict a 1923 CN classless 40-50 ton car
design and not a USRA boxcar.
A General Arrangement Dwg is available for these cars on the CP SIG
web site in the Documents Library.
http://www.cpsig.ca/data/Other_Railways/H-272.pdf

Hope this helps.

Russ Pinchbeck


Re: Unicel reefer kit

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Doug Brown" <brown194@t...> wrote:
Ambroid's GN wood express reefer had silk screened sides. Later,
Northeastern sold the kit with decals.

Doug Brown

Is that the car listed on ebay under #5991463849 ?

Manfred


Re: Unicel reefer kit

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

Ambroid's GN wood express reefer had silk screened sides. Later,
Northeastern sold the kit with decals.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ed_mines
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:06 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Unicel reefer kit

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote: The
really-unusual Unicel kit has always intrigued me (I have a
*beautifully-built* mostly-completed model left to me in a bequest 31
years ago, but I am missing the decals); and when I return from
vacation I am sure that I will be looking at it again with renewed
interest (I may even think now how to apply some ice hatches!).

My recollection is that the kit included silk screened sides, unusual
for Ambroid but common for Mainline and similar kits.

I believe the "old" Walthers company (run by the original WKW) offered
Unicel decals, probably printed when Eisenhower was president.

Ed






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Re: N&W 70(8?)473

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Gary,

This is a N&W Class BPa which has had roof hatches added and renumbered in series 70460-70499. The hatches were added at Roanoke Shops in 1951 for "Viscose." American Viscose had a plant in Roanoke and one in Front Royal, VA.

Originally, these cars were door and one-half Class BP, more closely to the PRR X28 rather than X29. The half-door was sealed in 1932-34; the cars lost the half-doors and the cars were made single door in 1940-42, and these were Class BPa.

I haven't been able to find anything more about these cars at the NWHS archives. American Viscose made rayon; it is possible these cars were used to load some by-product of that process.

If you go to my web site and click on the links, and then go to my model railroad, there is some additional information regarding American Viscose that has been compiled by one of my good friends who helps with my model railroad.

Jim Brewer
www.pocahontasmodels.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...>
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] N&W 70(8?)473


There is a picture of the end of this car on page 46 of the N&W Vol1 in Color. It has ends that are like a PRR X29 and four hatches on the roof that appear to open with the hinges on the car sides, not towards the running board or toward the length of the car like a reefer (well, except for Santa Fe). Any idea what the car was converted to?

gary laakso
vasa0vasa@...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.





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N&W 70(8?)473

gary laakso
 

There is a picture of the end of this car on page 46 of the N&W Vol1 in Color. It has ends that are like a PRR X29 and four hatches on the roof that appear to open with the hinges on the car sides, not towards the running board or toward the length of the car like a reefer (well, except for Santa Fe). Any idea what the car was converted to?

gary laakso
vasa0vasa@...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


Re: ATSF Covered Hoppers

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Charles, you can't send them to the list have to post them to the files
section.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:45 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] ATSF Covered Hoppers


Bruce I sent you some pictures of the Ga-45 and 52 class covered hoppers
including roof shots of the Ga-52. I tried to send it to the list but I
guess it was too large. Let me know if you recieved them, if not I can try
again later.
Charlie Slater
Bakersfield, Ca.

From: Bruce Brantner <sfcoyote_2000@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] ATSF Covered Hoppers
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:17:05 -0700 (PDT)

I am working on some Bowser and Kato two bay, 70 ton
covered hoppers. According to information that
Richard Hendrickson has posted on the Santa Fe Society
web site, these two models come fairly close to the
Santa Fe covered hoppers. Mr. Hendrickson lists the
following classes that these cars could be used for;
Ga-45, Ga-52, Ga-58, Ga-65 and Ga-75.

I want to model the covered hoppers in the Ga-45 to
Ga-65 era. The Bowser and Kato models that I have,
are of the open side hopper. I have been searching
through the books that I have and the web; but I have
not been able to find any pictures of these cars.
Save for one photo in A Santa Fe Society publication
of a closed sided covered hopper.

Two questions:
Does anyone know of any sources that I could find
photos of the ATSF open sided covered hoppers in the
1940-1950 era?

Secondly can anyone tell me what would be the proper
trucks for the Ga-42, 52, 58 and 65 classes.

Thanks for any help.

Bruce

Bruce R. Brantner, Sr.
Coyote Trails RR
Coyote Div. of SF RR



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Re: ATSF Covered Hoppers

charles slater
 

Bruce I sent you some pictures of the Ga-45 and 52 class covered hoppers including roof shots of the Ga-52. I tried to send it to the list but I guess it was too large. Let me know if you recieved them, if not I can try again later.
Charlie Slater
Bakersfield, Ca.

From: Bruce Brantner <sfcoyote_2000@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] ATSF Covered Hoppers
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:17:05 -0700 (PDT)

I am working on some Bowser and Kato two bay, 70 ton
covered hoppers. According to information that
Richard Hendrickson has posted on the Santa Fe Society
web site, these two models come fairly close to the
Santa Fe covered hoppers. Mr. Hendrickson lists the
following classes that these cars could be used for;
Ga-45, Ga-52, Ga-58, Ga-65 and Ga-75.

I want to model the covered hoppers in the Ga-45 to
Ga-65 era. The Bowser and Kato models that I have,
are of the open side hopper. I have been searching
through the books that I have and the web; but I have
not been able to find any pictures of these cars.
Save for one photo in A Santa Fe Society publication
of a closed sided covered hopper.

Two questions:
Does anyone know of any sources that I could find
photos of the ATSF open sided covered hoppers in the
1940-1950 era?

Secondly can anyone tell me what would be the proper
trucks for the Ga-42, 52, 58 and 65 classes.

Thanks for any help.

Bruce

Bruce R. Brantner, Sr.
Coyote Trails RR
Coyote Div. of SF RR



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Re: K Brake air plumbing

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 7, 2005, at 9:33 AM, Mark Heiden wrote:

Hello everyone,

I have a question about the air line plumbing for one-piece K brakes.
Many photos seem to show the air line that runs between the air tank
and the train line as running across the center sill and connecting
with the train line on the side opposite of the sill from the brake
assembly. On the other hand, I have a picture of a C&NW single-
sheathed boxcar that seems to show the air line as running from the
brake assembly up to the floor of the car, connecting with the train
air line on the same side of the center sill. Is there a typical
arrangement for this plumbing, or does it vary across cars?
Both arrangements were common. When in doubt, consult photos.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Gon Identification

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 7, 2005, at 11:15 AM, Mike Aufderheide wrote:

I took a look around on Geo. Elwood's site and found
the following Jim Sands photo from 1966:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw72438ajs.jpg

Same bracing config., though rebuilt with steel sides.

Same animal?
Yes, that's one of the MILW cars after being steel sheathed and renumbered.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Gon Identification

Michael Aufderheide
 

I took a look around on Geo. Elwood's site and found
the following Jim Sands photo from 1966:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw72438ajs.jpg

Same bracing config., though rebuilt with steel sides.

Same animal?

Mike Aufderheide

--- Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Mike Aufderheide wrote:

Hello all:

A photo was posted today on the Monon list of the
Michigan City Indiana rounhouse taken in 1946. In
the
photo there is an unusual composite gon. It has
12
panels in this configuration:

[ |/|/|/|/|/|&#92;|&#92;|&#92;|&#92;|&#92;| ]

That is the end panels do not have diagonal
braces,
the central 10 have diagonals facing each other in
groups of 5.

This seems unusual. Can anyone identify this car?
Not without the photo, Mike, though it sounds like a
MILW 80000 series
48'6" welded-frame composite mill gon.

Richard Hendrickson


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Unicel reefer kit

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote: The
really-unusual Unicel kit has always intrigued me (I have a
*beautifully-built* mostly-completed model left to me in a bequest 31
years ago, but I am missing the decals); and when I return from
vacation I am sure that I will be looking at it again with renewed
interest (I may even think now how to apply some ice hatches!).

My recollection is that the kit included silk screened sides, unusual
for Ambroid but common for Mainline and similar kits.

I believe the "old" Walthers company (run by the original WKW) offered
Unicel decals, probably printed when Eisenhower was president.

Ed


Re: ATSF Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed Hawkins wrote

The Ga-42 isn't a covered hopper. You probably meant Ga-45, which was
an early covered hopper but with smaller hatches, 24" x 33" compared to
36" square hatches of the more common arrangement. The Ga-45s had open
sides but also had a pair of fittings on the sides that the other cars
don't have (called poke holes). Photos of the Ga-45 appear in the the
April 1991 RMJ.
Pecos River Brass imported a Ga-45 model and it has the smaller
hatches (which open towards the ends) and IIRC lacked the latch
bars that are modeled on later GA/ACF hoppers. The model came with
a data sheet with a photo of ATSF 182009. There were only 10 cars,
built in 1936...

Tim O'Connor


Re: ATSF Covered Hoppers

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

There's a photo of Ga-45 #182009 in the Nov/Dec, 1983 Model
RailroadING, on page 48. You can clearly see the two poke holes,
however the photo is not close enough to see any detail of these. But
the photo does show their location.
Going back to the June, 1979 issue of Prototype Modeler, there is
a good article on ATSF covered 2-bay hoppers by William C. Messecar.
There's a clear side view photo of a Ga-52 car (#182024) on page 6,
and nice, clear top view of a car on page 14, showing the roof seam
caps as well as details of the roof hatches. The hatches have pressed
raised panels similar to a Murphy rectangular roof. I don't know if
this is a Ga-52, but it does show the seam caps. There's a set of
plans scattered through the article. They're labeled "Class Ga-52" and
show the cutout side panels unique to these first two classes, however
they don't show any seam caps on the roof. So take them with a grain
of salt.
Finally, the author makes reference to a June, 1955 Model
RailroadER article which included a plan set for the Ga-45.

Hope this helps!
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@s...> wrote:

On Saturday, August 6, 2005, at 08:17 PM, Bruce Brantner wrote:

<SNIP>
Two questions:
Does anyone know of any sources that I could find
photos of the ATSF open sided covered hoppers in the
1940-1950 era?

Secondly can anyone tell me what would be the proper
trucks for the Ga-42, 52, 58 and 65 classes.
Bruce,
If you're looking to do an open-sided Santa Fe car, the Ga-58 and Ga-65
should be eliminated as they had closed sides. A photo of a Ga-65
appears in Railmodel Journal Aug. 1991 (page 45) and a W. C. Whittaker
photo of a Ga-58 shows it had closed sides.

The Ga-42 isn't a covered hopper. You probably meant Ga-45, which was
an early covered hopper but with smaller hatches, 24" x 33" compared to
36" square hatches of the more common arrangement. The Ga-45s had open
sides but also had a pair of fittings on the sides that the other cars
don't have (called poke holes). Photos of the Ga-45 appear in the the
April 1991 RMJ.

The only Santa Fe open-sided car "closely matching" the 1,958 cu.ft.
cars offered by Kato and Bowser are the Ga-52s built by GATC in 1940.
However, I'm yet to find a photo of a car from the series. Chances are
good Richard has one or more. The GA-52s came with Barber Stabilized
S-2 trucks. Oh, I forgot to mention that the Ga-52 cars (as well as
many other Santa Fe 70-ton covered hoppers of this general type) had
roofs with seam caps, unlike the flat roofs on the Bowser and Kato
models. Martin Lofton offers cast urethane roofs for these cars with
seam caps. One year it came as a Naperville mini-kit complete with
Santa Fe decals. The kit conversion is meant to be used with the Bowser
model.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


K Brake air plumbing

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I have a question about the air line plumbing for one-piece K brakes.
Many photos seem to show the air line that runs between the air tank
and the train line as running across the center sill and connecting
with the train line on the side opposite of the sill from the brake
assembly. On the other hand, I have a picture of a C&NW single-
sheathed boxcar that seems to show the air line as running from the
brake assembly up to the floor of the car, connecting with the train
air line on the same side of the center sill. Is there a typical
arrangement for this plumbing, or does it vary across cars?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Plywood Refrigerator cars.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

CLG writes-

The Ambroid model you refer to may be the Unicel boxcar. ACL bought
two of them and scrapped them within a few >years. I'm not aware that any other roads bought them - does anyone know?

I believe that you are correct. Thank you for reminding me of the Unicel name. Both model and depicted car seem to have the same bodies. The Unicel model has a completely flat underbody, which has always mystified me- but would be seemingly also be just right for the honeycomb floor/underframe structure depicted in the Wall Street Journal. Other visual similarities are the flat roof with only curved sections on the sides, totally flat ends, and what could be identical paint schemes.

That the all-wood Unicel car (and apparently the one depicted) would be built by "Pressed Steel Car co." (and carry its reporting marks) has always been a seeming paradox.

Does anyone know whether or not the ACL cars were identical; or whether indeed the ice-refrigerator version was in fact ever produced?

The really-unusual Unicel kit has always intrigued me (I have a *beautifully-built* mostly-completed model left to me in a bequest 31 years ago, but I am missing the decals); and when I return from vacation I am sure that I will be looking at it again with renewed interest (I may even think now how to apply some ice hatches!).

Denny


Re: ATSF Covered Hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Saturday, August 6, 2005, at 08:17 PM, Bruce Brantner wrote:

<SNIP>
Two questions:
Does anyone know of any sources that I could find
photos of the ATSF open sided covered hoppers in the
1940-1950 era?

Secondly can anyone tell me what would be the proper
trucks for the Ga-42, 52, 58 and 65 classes.
Bruce,
If you're looking to do an open-sided Santa Fe car, the Ga-58 and Ga-65
should be eliminated as they had closed sides. A photo of a Ga-65
appears in Railmodel Journal Aug. 1991 (page 45) and a W. C. Whittaker
photo of a Ga-58 shows it had closed sides.

The Ga-42 isn't a covered hopper. You probably meant Ga-45, which was
an early covered hopper but with smaller hatches, 24" x 33" compared to
36" square hatches of the more common arrangement. The Ga-45s had open
sides but also had a pair of fittings on the sides that the other cars
don't have (called poke holes). Photos of the Ga-45 appear in the the
April 1991 RMJ.

The only Santa Fe open-sided car "closely matching" the 1,958 cu.ft.
cars offered by Kato and Bowser are the Ga-52s built by GATC in 1940.
However, I'm yet to find a photo of a car from the series. Chances are
good Richard has one or more. The GA-52s came with Barber Stabilized
S-2 trucks. Oh, I forgot to mention that the Ga-52 cars (as well as
many other Santa Fe 70-ton covered hoppers of this general type) had
roofs with seam caps, unlike the flat roofs on the Bowser and Kato
models. Martin Lofton offers cast urethane roofs for these cars with
seam caps. One year it came as a Naperville mini-kit complete with
Santa Fe decals. The kit conversion is meant to be used with the Bowser
model.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


ATSF Covered Hoppers

Bruce
 

I am working on some Bowser and Kato two bay, 70 ton
covered hoppers. According to information that
Richard Hendrickson has posted on the Santa Fe Society
web site, these two models come fairly close to the
Santa Fe covered hoppers. Mr. Hendrickson lists the
following classes that these cars could be used for;
Ga-45, Ga-52, Ga-58, Ga-65 and Ga-75.

I want to model the covered hoppers in the Ga-45 to
Ga-65 era. The Bowser and Kato models that I have,
are of the open side hopper. I have been searching
through the books that I have and the web; but I have
not been able to find any pictures of these cars.
Save for one photo in A Santa Fe Society publication
of a closed sided covered hopper.

Two questions:
Does anyone know of any sources that I could find
photos of the ATSF open sided covered hoppers in the
1940-1950 era?

Secondly can anyone tell me what would be the proper
trucks for the Ga-42, 52, 58 and 65 classes.

Thanks for any help.

Bruce

Bruce R. Brantner, Sr.
Coyote Trails RR
Coyote Div. of SF RR



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Re: Castle Graphics wooden boxcar

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Guys,

That is no different than Bob Yonosey who runs Morning Sun Books telling
me that he could not care less about copyrights to the photos he prints
in his books. He told me that if a photographer took issue with his
using a photo without permission and wanted to take him to court, then
let him! He would just tie the guy up in court forever! So much from a
guy who was trying to get me to let him use my photos to do a book on
PRR right-of-way and structures by Division!

The law allows anyone to copy anything without permission, but it has to
be for your PERSONAL USE ONLY, NOT TO BE SOLD! Any other use and you
can be sued!

At least there are a number of people who sell freight car photos
legitimately! Thank goodness for that! Some even sell UP photos, would
you believe! And with that, let's go back to freight cars!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711



Ted Culotta wrote:

On Aug 4, 2005, at 1:33 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:



Ted Culotta wrote:


I also just noticed that several of the photos on the Castle Graphics
site are copyrighted 2005 Castle Graphics with no reference to the
original photographers, such as Paul Dunn or Al Armitage.

Charming: a double insult, as they thereby submerge the creator
of the image as well as claiming control of the image for themselves.
Calling it " brass" doesn't cover it.

Triple insult. They are available for purchase as stock images.
Unfortunately, many of them (if not all) are just prints that were
purchased from ebay. I guess that's one way to start a business...
until the owner of the copyright of an image objects.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912




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Re: Question: T-section Bettendorf trucks on B&O

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 8/5/05 9:10:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rmwitt@... writes:

<< Is Guy saying that Andrews were banned after 1960 for unrestricted
Interchange?>>

Yes, well after 1960, and I believe it may have been Chris Barkan who once
supplied the definitive date as to their ban. This list concentrates on steam
era freight cars and Mike, via his walnut judge's gavel, has designated 1960 as
the last year of our discussions. I have simply stated that the trucks are
still appropriate for this time frame.

<<Did railroads really restrict their freight car movements to avoid the cost
of replacing these trucks?>>

If a side frame was banned (in interchange) railroads had no choice but to
replace the side frames, the entire truck or restrict the equipment to their own
rails and switching districts. The latter was noted for arch bars though
when "T", "L" and "I" types were banned on January 1, 1957 the language within
the Interchange Rule 3 stated that the side frames, "will be prohibited under
all cars. From owners."

<<Are there documents from any RR stating this as a policy?>>

In the case of arch bars there were notations within the ORER designating
cars so equipped as restricted to home use and adjoining switching districts, I
have yet to see any similar entries for "T" sections, they might exist (though
I doubt it).

<<There were designations for the type of car wheels in use, but I don't
recall any designations for the type of truck frames. So how would
they track this information?>>

All side frame and bolster designs were subject to approval by the ARA/AAR
from 1920 forward. All approved designs were listed annually by the Car
Construction Committee. All approved designs "preferably" followed the AAR
specifications which were "recommended" practice until made mandatory in 1958.

<<Also hasn't there been discussions in the past that the PRR trucks of
the "Crown" design were "exempt" and they ran them well into the 1960s. >>

Unless someone can supply documentation confirming this -- I would discount
it. No one railroad received preferential treatment within the Interchange
Rules. I believe this "exemption" is a myth conceived by modelers thinking that
the Andrews type side frame was banned (in interchange) while still seeing
large numbers of Crowns still running. Neither being banned (as previously
noted) within the time frame of this discussion list.

Guy Wilber
Chandler, Arizona


Re: MILW book/ John LaRue

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Ed,
The April, 1961 RMC has a set of drawings for these
Milwaukee auto cars, although they need a lot of help from photos if
you have any to refer to. For instance, the drawings and construction
article show a plain metal roof. The prototype had a Hutchins roof
like the single door cars. Also, the drawing and accompanying photo
only show the B end. The A end on these cars had a lumber door; no
mention of that in the plans.
I'd also be interested in a book on Milwaukee road freight
cars. If that's out of the question, would Speedwich be interested in
printing copies of the diagram book which Ted Culotta referred to
yesterday? Same thing for the SOO Line diagram book which was
mentioned recently on this list.
Best regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
I'd buy a book about steam era MILW rolling stock in a minute!

The single sheathed box cars and 40 ft. ribbed box cars have been
covered recently Ted's articles but I'm interested in the many unique
auto cars they had. If I'm not mistaken they had some tall 40 ft.
single sheathed, double door box cars.

I have some pictures of those MILW single sheathed gons, with and
without sheathing. They may be shown in the 1946 CBC. John LaRue may
have a negative showing a car without sheathing used for pipe loading.
Maybe a photo of one of these cars appeared in the '80s era freght car
books.

Ed

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