Date   

Stashed Stuff & "Stuff"

Paul Hillman
 

To all our fellows,

Hey,...I'm pushin' to be 60 yrs old. When I was first into model
railroading, in the '50's, and "plastics" (shriek!!) began to come
into existence, I remember a great discontent, amongst the modellers,
against it back then in the various publications.

"Real" railroad cars were made of metal & wood and so should be the
models!!!!, was their demand. "Plastic" was a dirty word!! Perhaps
that is why Athearn made metal sided cars and Ulrich did metal
castings. I think that back then, "resin" would have been rejected
also. Metal-castings & brass for engines was "perfect", but
Plastic's were "junk"!!

Alan Armitage came out with articles about his beautiful work in
plastic, and given enough time "Plastics" became a hobby norm.

If we want to be truly realistic, as did those '50's "non-
conformists", we should build in the original materials of the
prototypes, instead of pseudonym's. (Basswood grains in N & HO are
out of scale, but improve in S, O & G, but..whatever.)

So,...don't ever throw out old ideas. Perhaps soon, some "space-age"
method may be developed whereby scale-steel might be able to be cast
as are plastics & resins now and we'll have an attempt at truly
scale, scale cars again.

Remembering the past helps define our future. Our "old stuff" helps
us remember.

Paul Hillman


Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

Tim O'Connor
 

I sold an 800+ page Santa Fe diagram book last year on Ebay.
Stephen Priest was the high bidder... It covered every car and
variation from 1950 to the 1980's. So the diagrams are out there
you just have to find them.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The practice of overdoing aging and weathering dates back to the John
Allen era, and probably began with the narrow gaugers who were modeling
Colorado narrow gauge in its death throes, when dirty, weathered, and
worn-out equipment was being used up without any gestures in the
direction of maintenance. Allen then adopted advanced decrepitude and
made it fashionable because his modeling was inclined more to
quaintness and caricature than to realism (and in that respect I think
he set the hobby back at least twenty years).
Allen's caricature modeling is not open to doubt, but I think perspective is useful here. Go back to the MR's of the 1950s, and you will see that practically no one weathered anything. Indeed, Allen's engine house model, which won an MR contest, was controversial because it included pigeon droppings (and pigeons) on the roof. Allen did in many cases exaggerate weathering, but in an era when most models were severely underweathered, it can be seen as a needed corrective. And after all, RIchard, Allen's freelance railroad was supposed to be in the same throes as those Colorado roads. One can still regret, of course, that some modelers took Allen literally.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman said:
That book ( I had one) was done by MR and they had some errors in in
it. Even a coach with pullman sides and ACF roof or something like
that. I remember some one talking about it.
NO!?! An error in MR?? Omigosh, I feel faint . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

ljack70117@...
 

On Thursday, August 11, 2005, at 07:26 PM, Paul Hillman wrote:

Shawn,

Yes the Santa Fe used to have a large-paged paperback book, like 12" X 16", of steam, diesel, frt. & pass. car drawings and photos, that they'd give out for free, through their Public Relations Department. I don't know what the cut-off date was for the dwgs., etc.. I used to have 2 of them, but I think they've been lost in my long, long moving process. I hope I will find them again, somewhere.

Paul Hillman
That book ( I had one) was done by MR and they had some errors in in it. Even a coach with pullman sides and ACF roof or something like that. I remember some one talking about it.
thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens


Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

Shawn Beckert
 

Paul Hillman wrote:

Yes the Santa Fe used to have a large-paged paperback book, like
12" X 16", of steam, diesel, frt. & pass. car drawings and photos,
that they'd give out for free, through their Public Relations
Department. I don't know what the cut-off date was for the dwgs., etc.
Paul,

Thanks for the info, but I'm looking for something a bit more "nuts and
bolts" that would probably have been put together by the Santa Fe's
Mechanical Department for official use. Since enough drawings obviously
existed for them to publish a handout aimed at the general public, it
stands to reason that they were already in existence for the use of the
operating and repair people. I'll keep looking...

Shawn Beckert


Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

Paul Hillman
 

Shawn,

Yes the Santa Fe used to have a large-paged paperback book, like 12" X 16", of steam, diesel, frt. & pass. car drawings and photos, that they'd give out for free, through their Public Relations Department. I don't know what the cut-off date was for the dwgs., etc.. I used to have 2 of them, but I think they've been lost in my long, long moving process. I hope I will find them again, somewhere.

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: Beckert, Shawn<mailto:shawn.beckert@disney.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:11 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?


Fellow Listers,

Did the Santa Fe ever produce a freightcar diagram book for
the 1950's, or any other time period, for that matter?

Obviously Mssr's Hendrickson, Jordan, et.al. got the material
for their books from an original source, yet I've never seen
such a publication at any swap meet that I've ever attended.

Do any originals still exist?

Shawn Beckert



Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 11, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Jim Betz wrote:

We see guys selling stuff on eBay that have rust blowouts,
repaint bleed thrus (especially after an ownership change),
paint patches, spray can grafitti, etc. ... what I'd call
"heavy weathering". And we see photo examples of steam locos
- late in their active service (or after) - that are in pretty
bad shape (ie. heavily weathered/obviously in need of general
maintenance as opposed to a quick oil-aorund and lube).

BUT - it is my impression that this kind of weathering is - in
general - "later" ... that it started to show up on the RRs in
the 70's. And, more importantly, that other than -sometimes-
having a lot of 'road grime' that locos and cars were kept in
fairly good condition thruout the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Yes,
I know that maintenance was often deferred during WWII ... but
that meant 'more dirt' -most/some of the time- rather than
'more rust'.
[snip]

My belief is that it was relatively rare to see a car such as
this example with rust blow-outs, where the earlier paint scheme
is showing thru, heavy rust (not heavy grime!), etc. And also that
grafitti was fairly uncommon (most cars did not have any at all)
and what grafitti you did see was mostly done with chalk by a
hobo (rather than by some kid/vandal). Similarly, although you
did find the occasional "patch job" such as a repaint block around
the car data ... that this was very much the exception as opposed
to being "common" or even "fairly common".
Jim, on the whole I think you're right, and other respondents have added some useful insights. In the steam era, cars were typically repainted at about ten year intervals (though of course there was a lot of variation in individual cars and in general practice from one RR to another). In between repaintings, freight cars collected a lot of dirt. The soot and cinders from steam locos was responsible for much of that dirt, which the moisture from condensed steam tended to turn into a sort of sooty goo that clung to the cars even after exposure to rain. But freight yards were often in industrial areas where air pollution was far worse than anything to be found today (remember Donora PA?), so industrial grime contributed its share as well. Rust was common on the insides of open top cars, but paint and grime usually kept rust from forming extensively on other parts of the cars. And the undersides were invariably an oily mess; plain journals shed oil at a great rare onto the wheels and from the wheels onto the undersides of the cars and in oily stripes up the lower parts of the ends. (BTW, for that reason rusty wheels are a no-no on steam era models, though I've seen it done. OK on roller bearing trucks, definitely not OK on plain bearing trucks). So it's certainly true that the kinds of weathering - extensive rust, scraped and faded paint, etc. - that are appropriate to models of modern freight cars aren't at all realistic on steam era models.

The practice of overdoing aging and weathering dates back to the John Allen era, and probably began with the narrow gaugers who were modeling Colorado narrow gauge in its death throes, when dirty, weathered, and worn-out equipment was being used up without any gestures in the direction of maintenance. Allen then adopted advanced decrepitude and made it fashionable because his modeling was inclined more to quaintness and caricature than to realism (and in that respect I think he set the hobby back at least twenty years).

Prototype rolling stock got especially grimy during WW II, for obvious reasons, but after the war most RRs engaged in vigorous efforts to retire worn out equipment and repair and repaint serviceable cars, and there was also a car building boom in the late 1940s and early 1950s that put many new cars onto the rails, so relatively fresh paint jobs were more common then than you seem to think.

As for graffiti, it was VERY rare. In my collection of more than 30,000 photos of steam era freight cars, there are only three or four images that show genuine graffiti, in contrast to the many chalk markings used by working railroaders (which were, of course, numerous on almost every freight car).

As other respondents have said, photos are vastly better guides than speculation and guesswork, in this as in other aspects of modeling.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Aug 11, 3:04pm, Fred in Vt. wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era
Jeff,

Would it not be true that the weathering will reflect the last
area of the country the car passed through? So, apply the base for your
area in lighter tones, then add for the part of the country in which it
has returned from.
Fred,

I don't know; all I've got are [educated?] guesses.

As to your question, I think some of it depends on the nature of
the weathering: a week in Arizona is not going to fade the paint
appreciably. However, a day in cement service will cover a car in white
powder.

My guess is that we can weather box cars pretty much randomly,
without regard to the location of the home road. Age and car design are
the only things we need to worry about (e.g. X29's tended to rust out at
the bottom of the side, due to a design flaw).

My problem is that I do not have a photo collection, so I cannot
verify my guesses. I'm hoping that those listmembers who DO have piles of
frt car photos can comment on this.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Aug 11, 1:23pm, Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Here's another one: I always noticed that the few far-away hoppers I saw
in local consists (an occasional Santa Fe, Burlington, or SP) always
looked in much better condition than those born locally. I suspect it
may have had to do with where they spent most of their time, and not
because somebody used better paint. With all the rain falling on acidic
coal loads, in the northeast, could it have been that these hoppers were
literally being eaten away?
Elden,

Certainly we know that hoppers were not as free-roaming as box
cars, so I would GUESS that they would have a greater tendency to show the
regional bias in weathering.

[This is the part where Mike Brock steps in and points out that
hoppers DID roam somewhat, but I think my point still stands.]

Regards,

-Jeff


--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: photoectched brake chains

Tim O'Connor
 

Cool Bill. I just ordered several sets... trying to get those
tiny bits of chain to stay in place is one of my least favorite
underframe detailing tasks.

Another item that would be useful -- the handholds for the
laterals on box car running boards. I currently have to bend
wire to fit and then use another wire with a flattened, bent
over end to serve as the post. It's really tedious to make
but looks a hundred times better than using eye bolts. I
think it would be possible to make a one-size fits all.

Tim O'Connor

Since I was the person that I think suggested and provoked their
production, I suggest checking out this website for some really fine
rendering of brake chains. It has been awile since I had checked Burl's
website and was surprised and pleased to see they had come to fruition.

http://burlrice.com/index.php

Bill Welch






Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I concur with Elden on the state of the PRR in this era. But if
you subtract the coal cars, and stored serviceable/unserviceable
cars, then the picture is less grim... but not a lot less as all of
the eastern roads were in serious decline. SP however was
going gangbusters and overtook PRR in ton miles by the late
1950's (when T&NO is included). Lots of new freight cars on the
western roads in this era!
Tim makes a good point. All the Western roads were relatively more prosperous in the 1950s, in part because the Interstates weren't yet siphoning off their long-haul traffic. SP in particular was very well off, and D.J. Russell was on the cover of _Time_ magazine in this era with a glowing report on the profits being earned by SP. So you cannot (so to speak) tar everyone with Pennsy's brush in the 1950s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


photoectched brake chains

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Since I was the person that I think suggested and provoked their
production, I suggest checking out this website for some really fine
rendering of brake chains. It has been awile since I had checked Burl's
website and was surprised and pleased to see they had come to fruition.

http://burlrice.com/index.php

Bill Welch


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Jeff,

Would it not be true that the weathering will reflect the last area of the country the car passed through? So, apply the base for your area in lighter tones, then add for the part of the country in which it has returned from.

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: jaley
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era


On Aug 11, 12:43pm, Gatwood, Elden wrote:
> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

> I would imagine, however, that in your area, things were very different.
> The RRs there may not have been in huge financial trouble, you did not
> have months of nothing by rain (made acidic by air contaminants), and
> other things that would contribute to a situation like Pittsburgh in the
> post-war period.


Do these comments about regional weathering apply only to certain types of
cars (e.g. hoppers)?

I would expect that free-roaming cars (box cars) would not show regional
weathering because they roamed "freely" across the U.S.A. I believe CIL 1
(a Monon box car) spent a LONG time traveling around the country before
coming back to the rust-belt industrial areas of Indiana.

So even if it's a PRR X29, it may have spent just as much time in the
desert southwest as a car from the FEC, MEC, or SP.

Do the photos and consist data back up my theory, or am I full of it?

Regards,

-Jeff



--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Tim O'Connor
 

Following up on Elden's comments, I would say the best guide
for most modelers is panoramic photos of yards in the area you
are modeling. A collection of good yard photos will yield a good
amount of data on this subject. Photos of trains that show a
bunch of cars at once are also a good resource.

I concur with Elden on the state of the PRR in this era. But if
you subtract the coal cars, and stored serviceable/unserviceable
cars, then the picture is less grim... but not a lot less as all of
the eastern roads were in serious decline. SP however was
going gangbusters and overtook PRR in ton miles by the late
1950's (when T&NO is included). Lots of new freight cars on the
western roads in this era!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Jeff;
I don't think you are full of it at all, and indeed, your theory would
partially explain why two X29's painted at the same time could look
completely different 5 years later.

If X29 #1 took a load of machine parts out to LA, and then spent the
next 5 years being shunted around various parts of the arid southwest
carrying non-mineral loads, before going home, it'd look a lot different
from X29 #2 that just shuttled back and forth between Youngstown and
Pittsburgh and Cleveland and Weirton hauling a variety of nasty loads,
including lime, steel-making additives, barrels of solvent, etc.

There is a series of photos of X29 rebuilds in the "Color Guide" series
that just fascinates me. All were built in the same time period, and
repainted on various dates. All exhibit TOTALLY different weathering
and evidence of past loads. One was clearly used in flour or other fine
powder hauling, was not repainted, and looks terrible. Others have been
repainted, but exhibit varied weathering including rusty patches, or
just streaks, or minimal weathering, or totally scoured of paint, etc.
And the roofs range from totally peeled paint off of galvanized steel
with little patches, almost untouched paint, rusty patches, and
Asphaltum! Crazy! It is a modeling project on my "to do" list, in a
big way!

Here's another one: I always noticed that the few far-away hoppers I saw
in local consists (an occasional Santa Fe, Burlington, or SP) always
looked in much better condition than those born locally. I suspect it
may have had to do with where they spent most of their time, and not
because somebody used better paint. With all the rain falling on acidic
coal loads, in the northeast, could it have been that these hoppers were
literally being eaten away?

Take care,

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jaley
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:55 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

On Aug 11, 12:43pm, Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era
I would imagine, however, that in your area, things were very
different.
The RRs there may not have been in huge financial trouble, you did not
have months of nothing by rain (made acidic by air contaminants), and
other things that would contribute to a situation like Pittsburgh in
the
post-war period.

Do these comments about regional weathering apply only to certain types
of
cars (e.g. hoppers)?

I would expect that free-roaming cars (box cars) would not show regional
weathering because they roamed "freely" across the U.S.A. I believe CIL
1
(a Monon box car) spent a LONG time traveling around the country before
coming back to the rust-belt industrial areas of Indiana.

So even if it's a PRR X29, it may have spent just as much time in the
desert southwest as a car from the FEC, MEC, or SP.

Do the photos and consist data back up my theory, or am I full of it?

Regards,

-Jeff



--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Garth

If you want 70 ton trucks, the best RB ASF A-3's are made by
Kato and Kadee. The Kato has rotating caps and so they don't
roll all that well but they are pretty.


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Tim O'Connor
 

Truly rusted out looking, bad paint, illegible lettering was
-relatively- rare in the 1950's but was not unheard of -- and
a car that is only a few years old could get pretty cruddy in
the steam era. Yes, the bulk of box cars and reefers should
merely be "dirty" to various degrees, with reweigh stencils
and chalk marks being pretty common. In the 15 years after
WWII I think something like 1 MILLION freight cars were built
and other hundreds of thousands were repainted or rebuilt.
So in my opinion shiny NEW cars are under-represented on
most layouts. Every now and then just give one car a dip in
a bucket of Future. That should do the trick. Of course, the
date on the shiny car will pretty much fix the exact era of your
layout and the Prototype Police will put that information to good
use in their unrelenting quest to stamp out anachronisms!

Tim O'Connor

Let me give a specific example - let's say we are talking about
steel box car delivered in the late 40's or early 50's ... and has
gone thru a repaint that includes a major change in the lettering ...
and is at least 2 or 3 years after that repaint. So this car is
somewhere between 5 and 15 years old.


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Aug 11, 12:43pm, Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era
I would imagine, however, that in your area, things were very different.
The RRs there may not have been in huge financial trouble, you did not
have months of nothing by rain (made acidic by air contaminants), and
other things that would contribute to a situation like Pittsburgh in the
post-war period.

Do these comments about regional weathering apply only to certain types of
cars (e.g. hoppers)?

I would expect that free-roaming cars (box cars) would not show regional
weathering because they roamed "freely" across the U.S.A. I believe CIL 1
(a Monon box car) spent a LONG time traveling around the country before
coming back to the rust-belt industrial areas of Indiana.

So even if it's a PRR X29, it may have spent just as much time in the
desert southwest as a car from the FEC, MEC, or SP.

Do the photos and consist data back up my theory, or am I full of it?

Regards,

-Jeff



--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Jim;
You bring up a very interesting subject, and one that I have done my own
looking into, for my area and era.

I would say, based on memory and photos of equipment and yard photos
(even more valuable), that this really doesn't apply to my area. The
PRR and numerous other northeastern roads were going through a real
crisis after WWII, occasioned by deferred equipment purchases and
rebuilds, delayed replacement of older cars, etc. The PRR called it the
"Freight Car Crisis" and it got very bad in the 1950's. The P&LE, NYC,
B&O, and others were suffering from this same thing.

I do agree that graffiti was not around in my area prior to the 70's,
but chalk marks were, although less evident in the 60's as computer
consists became more prevalent.

There are numerous photographs of freight cars, steam engines, and
diesels, in my area, in most eras, in horrible condition. Shots of
yards show brand new cars tied to long strings of terrible-looking cars.
Some cars are so rusty they had to paint patches on them to put the car
number and data back on.

While it is true that I have been accused of "going too far" on some of
my models, I am only re-creating what I know to be true. In my area,
there were large numbers of cars like you describe. I also model some
new or rebuilt cars, but no on seems to recognize that, and in fact,
they aren't that interesting.

I would imagine, however, that in your area, things were very different.
The RRs there may not have been in huge financial trouble, you did not
have months of nothing by rain (made acidic by air contaminants), and
other things that would contribute to a situation like Pittsburgh in the
post-war period.

Thank goodness for the difference! It makes our modeling so much more
interesting.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jim Betz
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:39 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

We see guys selling stuff on eBay that have rust blowouts,
repaint bleed thrus (especially after an ownership change),
paint patches, spray can grafitti, etc. ... what I'd call
"heavy weathering". And we see photo examples of steam locos
- late in their active service (or after) - that are in pretty
bad shape (ie. heavily weathered/obviously in need of general
maintenance as opposed to a quick oil-aorund and lube).

BUT - it is my impression that this kind of weathering is - in
general - "later" ... that it started to show up on the RRs in
the 70's. And, more importantly, that other than -sometimes-
having a lot of 'road grime' that locos and cars were kept in
fairly good condition thruout the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Yes,
I know that maintenance was often deferred during WWII ... but
that meant 'more dirt' -most/some of the time- rather than
'more rust'.

Do you agree?

Let me give a specific example - let's say we are talking about
steel box car delivered in the late 40's or early 50's ... and has
gone thru a repaint that includes a major change in the lettering ...
and is at least 2 or 3 years after that repaint. So this car is
somewhere between 5 and 15 years old.
My belief is that it was relatively rare to see a car such as
this example with rust blow-outs, where the earlier paint scheme
is showing thru, heavy rust (not heavy grime!), etc. And also that
grafitti was fairly uncommon (most cars did not have any at all)
and what grafitti you did see was mostly done with chalk by a
hobo (rather than by some kid/vandal). Similarly, although you
did find the occasional "patch job" such as a repaint block around
the car data ... that this was very much the exception as opposed
to being "common" or even "fairly common".

It seems to me that a lot of us are over-using the exceptions
to these general rules - and/or effects that started showing up
very much later than the period in question - to weather equipment
for this era. Yeah, you might see a car or two in a hundred car
train that was significantly more weathered and/or in dis-repair
than the rest of them ... but that is not "the rule". Am I wrong?

Similarly - I think it was relatively rare to see a "paint shop
fresh" freight car in this era. Yeah, we've all seen the publicity
photos for stuff like the GN circus train or the initiation of a
new service such as the Overnight but even those ended up with
light to moderate weathering very quickly. Agreed?

I base this on photos in books that are from the 40's into
the 60's for freight cars -and- for locomotives photos from
the 30's and 40's. When I look at a picture of a yard or an
entire freight train all I see is a "general grime" - isn't
that what you see?
- Jim in San Jose

===> Hi, my name is Jim ...
and I have a "Hobby Shop in the Closet" problem.




Yahoo! Groups Links

143721 - 143740 of 187854