Date   

ATSF Bx49 Again or Still

Greg Martin
 

Thanks to Tim O'Conner and Richard Hendrickson for sending me some scans of photographs of the Bx-49's from their collections all were great photos. With the information and the available drawings I can wade through the material, formulate a game plan and give the conversion a try. Again, my thoughts are to help burn off some of these older kits I have been storing for years with no definitive plan for. I don't plan to just dump them off, I am still an addict, not quite ready to attempt the first of the twelve steps I suppose.

In the research I have noticed that the cars were built beginning in 1948 (thanks Ben), but it came to me... I wondered why did the Santa Fe rebuild the "kit-cars" with some parts we might have considered nearing if not obsolete at the time. For example, the STANRAY full Panel Roof panels the 4/4 IDE's, but what caught my eye was the YSD "lightweight door". I am just wondering if the parts were perhaps a could of years ahead of the program or if the program was so ongoing from other classes that these parts were just left behind in the stores department? OR perhaps there was such a high demand for these types of programs at the time the perhaps STANRAY had either more than one plant working on parts or perhaps more than one press working on ends an roof panels at the time.

Now I realize we can't roll back time and perhaps the records are gone to check, so speculation prevails, but I have noticed that other shops were ahead of the curve, so to say, with newer parts than these cars seem to exhibit... For example the KCS, who rebuilt their 92 AAR double sheathed cars about a year later, rebuilt their cars with 4/3/r ends and diagonal panel roofs. Perhaps it was the Santa Fe was actually ahead of the curve and I tend to believe this was the case. They always seemed to be forward looking. Perhaps they pressed their own parts, I don't know but some thoughts would be helpful.

I would really like to explore this discussion a bit further with all of the readers here as the subject of rebuilt cars is very interesting as many of the rebuild programs stretched well into the 1950's and many may have resulted in the 40-foot to 50-foot stretched cars of the WP and the P&LE for example. But if we decide to split the conversation to into the original 40-foot rebuilt program and the stretch program can we at least please change the heading? 3^)

Greg Martin


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Denny, I convert my Kato ASF A-3 solid bearing trucks with
the narrow 0.950 (0.960?) Reboxx wheelsets and it makes them
work extremely well. But I can't do this with the rotating
caps roller bearing trucks.

That too is my experience. The Kato trucks are very handsome, but
compared with the rolling ability that one can attain with the
Reboxx conversions, it is strictly "no contest".

That said, although I do not buy them, I still use the trucks that I
have on hand- simply because they are so good looking!

Denny


Santa Fe Freigtht Car Folio Sheet Source

rgs4550 <rgsfan@...>
 

Hi, Copies of the subject sheets are available from Russell Crump at:

http://www.ATSFRY.COM/

After you access his website one must download Adobe Reader to access
the folio sheet files. The available sheets cover a wide range of
ATSF freight cars. For example, I've purchased copies of all ATSF
covered hoppers folio sheets from 1940 to 1980. Copies of the the
sheest are $0.50 each. I'd suggest you log on to the site to determine
what is available. Regards, Don Smith


Re: rusty vs grimy wheels, was: Weathering for Late Steam

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Thu, August 11, 2005 11:35 pm, tyesac@... wrote:
Great point, one that I've overlooked on many of my models. One question
I
have is in regard to the brine mixture used in iced reefers, wouldn't
that contribute a rusty shade to those cars? I know of that the brine
contributed
to the corrosion of structural components of the cars, and led to more
prominent extensions of the drain chutes in later year of the ice cooled
cars.
Given the general oilyness of the trucks and underbody, and having looked
at more than a few photos, I would say that rust was not the most common
color... Rather, I usually dry brush some white around the drains, and
onto that end of the truck to represent the dried salt left by
evaporation. I also add some "salt" residue around the bunker doors.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

At 02:59 AM 8/12/05, Tim O'Connor wrote:




Neither of the Kato trucks performs very well when compared
to what is possible with other model trucks equipped with
correct-length Reboxx wheelsets.
That too is my experience. The Kato trucks are very handsome, but compared with the rolling ability that one can attain with the Reboxx conversions, it is strictly "no contest".

That said, although I do not buy them, I still use the trucks that I have on hand- simply because they are so good looking!

Denny


Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

mopacfirst
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
wrote:
Tim O'Connor reveals:

I sold an 800+ page Santa Fe diagram book last year on Ebay.
Stephen Priest was the high bidder... It covered every car and
variation from 1950 to the 1980's.
You SOLD it?!?!?!? You, a Freight Foamer, let go of an original
AT&SF Mechanical Department document???

That's it, we're pulling your Freightcar Mafia membership...


Shawn Beckert, what's the world coming to...

But Stephen Priest actually PUBLISHES stuff......

Ron Merrick, a consumer of freight car data


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bill,

Roundhouse has a closed cap roller bearing truck. It is a bit crude, but might be the only game in town.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Bill McCoy wrote:

Central Valley used to offer a covered end cap Timken roller bearing truck that seems to have dissappeared. With the introduction of the Wright Trak FGE mechanical reefer this truck will be needed to model the mid 50s as built car. Any suggestions as to an available truck to fill this need?

Bill McCoy



Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

Central Valley used to offer a covered end cap Timken roller bearing
truck that seems to have dissappeared. With the introduction of the
Wright Trak FGE mechanical reefer this truck will be needed to model
the mid 50s as built car. Any suggestions as to an available truck to
fill this need?

Bill McCoy
Jax

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@s...> wrote:
Since this request for A-3 roller bearing trucks came
about by a request from Garth about the WP shorty 29'
gondola, you might want to limit your search for
covered journal roller bearing trucks, and with a 70
ton spring pack, as well. Remember, this was 1953, not
1967.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Andy,

The trucks on WP 6401-6500 had exposed rotating bearing caps, just like today.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Andy Carlson wrote:

Since this request for A-3 roller bearing trucks came
about by a request from Garth about the WP shorty 29'
gondola, you might want to limit your search for
covered journal roller bearing trucks, and with a 70
ton spring pack, as well. Remember, this was 1953, not
1967.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Andy Carlson
 

Since this request for A-3 roller bearing trucks came
about by a request from Garth about the WP shorty 29'
gondola, you might want to limit your search for
covered journal roller bearing trucks, and with a 70
ton spring pack, as well. Remember, this was 1953, not
1967.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Neither of the Kato trucks performs very well when compared
to what is possible with other model trucks equipped with
correct-length Reboxx wheelsets. Kato trucks perform far better
when there is no LOAD on them, but they perform much worse when
put under a car. Mind you they are not terrible, but they are
not the best. Of course this has only been tested by doing
side by side comparisons, which amounts to nothing in the face
of contrary opinion! :-)

At 08:52 PM 8/11/2005, you wrote:
The Kato has rotating caps and so they don't roll all that well...
Say what? My experience with these Kato trucks (both types) is that they are the absolute best rolling trucks availible... bar NONE!


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mike Brock:

snippola

5. Having been drenched by cinders and soot from UP 3985
while in coal burning service, there can be little doubt that
such locomotives applied such coverings to anything within
several hundred feet. Even in the 80's one could find the
sides of railroad cuts in Wyoming exhibiting a black covering
from yrs of smoke and cinders.
An inverse example: I have a photo of the Salamanca NY coal dock on the ERIE taken, I'm guessing,
about 1940 +/-. It is BLACK, dead flat black, a veritable black hole for light. I have my own
photos taken of the stripped hulk of the same structure, taken in the late 70s and into the 80s. It
is now (still stands I believe) basically a light pinkish tan color of old concrete. Years of rain
have "unweathered" the concrete parts that are left.

SGL


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I'll add a few observations from viewing countless photos and videos regarding this issue.

1. As has been noted, the period late 40's through '55 saw a huge number of new box cars on the nation's rails. Depending upon when one models, some of these cars are going to be quite clean compared to others. Viewing entire frt trains on the video Big Boy Collection, the presence of quite a few relatively "clean" appearing cars is evident. The trains in this video were shot in '53. It is also apparent that some relatively new cars are pretty dirty.

2. I have noticed at least two distinctly different types of dirt/weather. Dirt which has become wet due to extensive rain seems to exhibit accumulations around rivets and other parts, less on panels. Dirt applied in dry conditions seems to encase the entire car with about the same intensity. Having experienced winds of 40 mph in Wyoming while trying to video tape a UP steam excursion, I can speak with authority about blowing dirt. Dirt also has different colors depending upon the location in the country.

3. Videos show a distinct presence of a light tan [ what I would term a sandy look ] on the trucks, wheels, and underbody of Santa Fe & SP frt cars. Additional study of the video is needed.

4. I have seen almost no presence of rust deteriation on the surface of steel frt cars with one definite exception and possibly a few others. Pennsy cars [ except new cars ] very often appear to exhibit rust problems in '53. One also can see similar effects on other northeastern RRs such as NYC and others. This could be due to paint characteristics or due to the presence of various chemicals in the air dumped on these cars while in the industrial areas of the northeast.

5. Having been drenched by cinders and soot from UP 3985 while in coal burning service, there can be little doubt that such locomotives applied such coverings to anything within several hundred feet. Even in the 80's one could find the sides of railroad cuts in Wyoming exhibiting a black covering from yrs of smoke and cinders.

6. The color of coal apparently varies. One of my favorite "weathering" [ I don't like the term because modification of the original appearance of a RR item is often NOT due to weather ] photos clearly shows N&W steam engines with a brownish black covering. The same photo shows black painted objects protected from smoke and dirt to be black.

These are only a few observations that I've noticed. Many other factors are no doubt involved.

Mike Brock


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Schuyler Larrabee
 

There's another reason that heavy weathering became a common thing, which I'm finding out just now.

I did a lot of cars weathered for what I remember cars looking like in the 60s, which was pretty
darn dirty and grimy, with some spots of serious rusting. This was while my interests were in the
Erie Lackawanna era, so the cars we're talking about would have been some 20-30 years old. (I was
less worried then about accuracy of built dates, reweigh dates, etc, I just like the look overall of
the cars.)

So, now, my interests having aged faster than I have, I'm more into the ERIE in the late 40's, early
50's, and my model railroad club layout's set in the mid 50's. So these cars should not be so
heavily weathered. And I'm attempting to do a light weathering job with washes of acrylics (my
preferred medium) for water-borne dirt, using Kodak Photo-flo to "wet" the water) and then
overspraying dust, grime, etc, for the air-borne dirt, and an overall coat of flat lacquer.

Frankly, it is a lot harder to do a light, but convincing job of weathering to represent a fairly
new car, than it is to do the so-grimy-you-can-barely-read-the-number weathering. Sometimes the
flat coat kills the weathering so much that it's barely there to the naked eye.

SGL


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jeff Aley says:


[This is the part where Mike Brock steps in and points out that
hoppers DID roam somewhat, but I think my point still stands.]
Yawnnnn. Hmmm...Did someone call? Roaming hopper? Certainly...depending upon the hopper AND the location. It's my guess that UP hoppers...and those of most other western RRs...didn't stray far from home rails. Those of the RRs of the "midwest" did roam a bit. Mopac, Q, B&O, NYC, IC among other RRs, served the southern Illinois coal fields and, apparently, this coal went into a very wide area. I have photos of Mopac hoppers in Laramie [ not a single car either ] and in Great Lake ports. B&O carried such coal into the Great Lakes. However, the really active roamers were those of N&W, L&N, WM, and Pennsy. As I have documented an ad naseum number of times, in '49 more N&W transported coal went into the midwest...Illinois, Ohio, Mich, Indiana...than went through Norfolk. Since N&W rails didn't serve much of this area, its cars roamed. In fact, they roamed all over the area. L&N transported coal likewise went off line as did that of WM...and several others.

Yawwnnn.

Mike Brock


Re: Santa Fe Freight Car Folios

Keith Jordan
 

Did the Santa Fe ever produce a freightcar diagram book for
the 1950's, or any other time period, for that matter?

Obviously Mssr's Hendrickson, Jordan, et.al. got the material
for their books from an original source, yet I've never seen
such a publication at any swap meet that I've ever attended.

Do any originals still exist?

Shawn Beckert
Shawn asks about Santa Fe freight car diagram books. Yes, they did produce
one, it was called a Freight Car Folio. They were about the size Paul
Hillman mentioned--12x16--and were grouped by car type. They included a
drawing, which could range from precise to crude, and had all the
measurements and data that would be needed, especially those used by the
ORER. They were drawn in house, ink on linen, but were reproduced
(mimeographed?) all over the system. I've found them available at various
meets, but typically they cover the later cars, since they're leftover from
the '70s, '80s and '90s.

There were other Folios which covered other aspects of freight equipment,
such as appliances and their application, plus ones which were, in essence,
rosters showing the cars and their totals. The old Santa Fe Modelers
Organization produced two of those, one for 1945 and one for 1951. They're
no longer available.

I have one of the original "obsolete" Freight Car Folio books, which has all
the linen drawings and has all the car classes, some which eventually became
obsolete, thus the name. (They were noted by the word obsolete and a date.)
It was given to me by someone who worked in the drafting department, the
folks who did the drawings.

One of these days, I'll get the thing scanned, page by page and make it
available somehow. In the meantime, I've got a layout to populate with all
those accumulated Sunshine/Westerfield/Branchline/Red Caboose/IMRC cars in
my storage closet!

If there's a particular class you're looking for Shawn, I might be able to
scan that page for you. Matt Zebrowski has the book for now, so I can
contact him to do it.

Keith Jordan


Re: ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks

John Degnan <RailScaler@...>
 

The Kato has rotating caps and so they don't roll all that well...
Say what? My experience with these Kato trucks (both types) is that they are the absolute best rolling trucks availible... bar NONE! The only draw-back to them as far as I am concerned is that the side-frames and bolsters are a one-piece design. If you're really having a problem with them rolling, try sliding the "caps" out from the sideframe a bit on the axle... it could be that the "caps" are pressing against the sideframes and causing drag.


John Degnan
RailScaler@...
Announcing : Seaboard Air Line's B-7 Box Cars In S Scale!
http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SALRoundRoofBoxCarProject.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: August 11, 2005 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ASF-A3 roller bearing trucks


Garth

If you want 70 ton trucks, the best RB ASF A-3's are made by
Kato and Kadee. The Kato has rotating caps and so they don't
roll all that well but they are pretty.




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Re: Santa Fe Diagram Books - Do Any Exist?

Shawn Beckert
 

Tim O'Connor reveals:

I sold an 800+ page Santa Fe diagram book last year on Ebay.
Stephen Priest was the high bidder... It covered every car and
variation from 1950 to the 1980's.
You SOLD it?!?!?!? You, a Freight Foamer, let go of an original
AT&SF Mechanical Department document???

That's it, we're pulling your Freightcar Mafia membership...


Shawn Beckert, what's the world coming to...


Re: Weathering for Late Steam and Transition Era

Thomas Baker
 

Richard and others,

Thanks for your comments. I cannot recall from the steam to early diesel era the type of rust on cars we see today. I was beginning to believe that my memory was playing tricks on me. Appreciate the input on this question.

Tom


Re: rusty vs grimy wheels, was: Weathering for Late Steam

tyesac@...
 

In a message dated 8/11/2005 6:19:55 PM Central Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:
And the
undersides were invariably an oily mess; plain journals shed oil at a
great rare onto the wheels and from the wheels onto the undersides of
the cars and in oily stripes up the lower parts of the ends. (BTW, for
that reason rusty wheels are a no-no on steam era models, though I've
seen it done. OK on roller bearing trucks, definitely not OK on plain
bearing trucks).
Richard,

Great point, one that I've overlooked on many of my models. One question I
have is in regard to the brine mixture used in iced reefers, wouldn't that
contribute a rusty shade to those cars? I know of that the brine contributed
to the corrosion of structural components of the cars, and led to more
prominent extensions of the drain chutes in later year of the ice cooled cars.

Tom C

150561 - 150580 of 194714